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View Full Version : Some Issues I've Always Had With Lightwave



Electrocaseal
09-05-2013, 08:57 PM
I recently made a video about lightwave on youtube. i use 3d programs maybe once every six months these days so im usually needing a bit of practice to navigate again but in this video where i just dick around in modeler talks about a few issues that really have always bothered me about lightwave so if you got the time to watch the video maybe give me some tips on the issues?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eptlEZ6yZTU

chikega
09-05-2013, 09:21 PM
I have to agree on some of the things you've pointed out. Lightwave's modeling tools haven't really changed much since the Babylon TV show days. There are a lot of redundancies of tools and it takes a special way of thinking ... I remember watching Taron model a head in LW and it still blows me away today. But, I turned away from LW modeling back in the early 2000 ... I started using Silo and Modo ... Silo has/had the most elegant modeling paradigm but the developers have all but ceased development. So I do most of my modeling in Modo, but I've also started messing with Nvil. I do like some of the new modeling tools in 11.5 ... they're heading in the right direction. Hopefully when the Hydra core is injected into LW, it well help revive this highly neglected aspect of the program.

evenflcw
09-05-2013, 09:48 PM
Got some bulletpoints or a list of the issues presented? A detailed video is great for deeper understanding and demonstration of user experience that is not easily put into words. But the video takes 30 min vs 30 seconds for written bullet points (max 2-3 sentences per point) to find out whether the issues are new or already known. A list would also help people to keep track of and respond to all your issues in an organised manner.

1:Extrude tool creating internal geometry and flipped normals. It was not designed for boxmodeling, ie extruding from a 3d volume but for extruding flat 2d planes into 3d volumes. Ie create 3d text from 2d template. It's a legacy thing really.
2:How to bevel multiple polygons. Use MultiShift.
3:Subpatches can only have four points or less which messes up workflow. Turn on catmull-clark subds. Or just model in polygon mode and only toggle on and off subpatches to check the status, but don't stay there. (And use more polygon creation/editing tools to fix polygons causing issues" rather than deleting and recreating the geometry.)

... then I stopped watching because I felt the trend was clear (and I have to go to sleep). LWs tool bloat (90% old tools with 200% redundancy that nobody uses) is making new users use the wrong tools. Will finish watching tomorrow if I remember.

Electrocaseal
09-05-2013, 10:25 PM
Got some bulletpoints or a list of the issues presented? A detailed video is great for deeper understanding and demonstration of user experience that is not easily put into words. But the video takes 30 min vs 30 seconds for written bullet points (max 2-3 sentences per point) to find out whether the issues are new or already known. A list would also help people to keep track of and respond to all your issues in an organised manner.

1:Extrude tool creating internal geometry and flipped normals. It was not designed for boxmodeling, ie extruding from a 3d volume but for extruding flat 2d planes into 3d volumes. Ie create 3d text from 2d template. It's a legacy thing really.


2:How to bevel multiple polygons. Use MultiShift.
3:Subpatches can only have four points or less which messes up workflow. Turn on catmull-clark subds. Or just model in polygon mode and only toggle on and off subpatches to check the status, but don't stay there. (And use more polygon creation/editing tools to fix polygons causing issues" rather than deleting and recreating the geometry.)

... then I stopped watching because I felt the trend was clear (and I have to go to sleep). LWs tool bloat (90% old tools with 200% redundancy that nobody uses) is making new users use the wrong tools. Will finish watching tomorrow if I remember.

you covered the only issues in the video. the rest of the video is just killing time . pretty pointless video that showed my lack of knowledge in the program quitewell.

extrude explanation makes sense.

found the multshift numeric toggle to do what i wanted. god they hid that well...

do you still have to prntscreen unwrapped uvmap? im still assuming theres no seam/unfold uvmapping tools? maybe ican still talk crap about that. im gonna have to learn a few other modeling tools obviously. thanks about the subpatch info.

Hail
09-06-2013, 05:55 AM
video has been removed?

Danner
09-06-2013, 06:18 AM
You mean printscreen to send your UV layout to photohsop? Export as EPS. (been there for so long now I can't tell you when it was implemented.. lw8 maybe?)
For unwrapping along a seam, AFB UV unwrap. (Lw 11.5 +) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ww4brpabs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcopW7cl-_0

Skonk
09-06-2013, 06:18 AM
do you still have to prntscreen unwrapped uvmap? im still assuming theres no seam/unfold uvmapping tools? maybe ican still talk crap about that. im gonna have to learn a few other modeling tools obviously. thanks about the subpatch info.

File > Export > EPS (Encapsulated Post Script)

In the panel, select UV view as the view to export; it will create an EPS file (vector) which can be loaded into Photoshop at any resolution you like.

Has been in the program for quite some time.

hrgiger
09-06-2013, 08:45 AM
EPS doesn't support subpatch interpolation unforutnately.

Electrocaseal
09-06-2013, 11:43 AM
thanks to evenflow tips i was able to create a fairl good female base model. ill add the first video back. its really a trash ignorant fail video though and his tips already made me much more aware of the program. that and ring/loop edge selection and cutting was really all i needed to find to model well in lightwave.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKsh5u_4R3I

i just saw a rigging tutorial and its easier than i remember im kind of excited that i will be able to make a fairly ok 3d animation with just lightwave right now.

Electrocaseal
09-06-2013, 12:31 PM
Here's the original video in first post. not really needed anymore:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysrr8T8OPYA


you mean printscreen to send your uv layout to photohsop? Export as eps. (been there for so long now i can't tell you when it was implemented.. Lw8 maybe?)
for unwrapping along a seam, afb uv unwrap. (lw 11.5 +) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ww4brpabs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcopw7cl-_0

awesome!!!!11111111

I think I just fell in love with lightwave again. This is enough to replace what i was using 3ds max for

Waves of light
09-06-2013, 12:39 PM
EPS doesn't support subpatch interpolation unforutnately.

Someone told me a neat trick to get around this one, is to freeze the sub-d mesh (don't save your LWO) and then export to EPS. Not brilliant and you may get a little stretching in places, but works.

hrgiger
09-06-2013, 02:47 PM
Someone told me a neat trick to get around this one, is to freeze the sub-d mesh (don't save your LWO) and then export to EPS. Not brilliant and you may get a little stretching in places, but works.

Yeah, I know about that one. This is just another area that shouldn't be a workaround.

JoePoe
09-06-2013, 05:42 PM
Someone told me a neat trick to get around this one, is to freeze the sub-d mesh (don't save your LWO) and then export to EPS. Not brilliant and you may get a little stretching in places, but works.

Yes.... but that can leave you with a pretty dense mesh to look at. Sometimes it's hard to know where a critical edge is among the closely packed lines.

So, there is Clinton's SubD UV Preparation script for Lightwave (http://www.clintons3d.com/plugins/lightwave/) (scroll near bottom of page). Does the freeze thing but then also gets rid of the extra lines created in the mesh. Much easier on the eyes.
Does a pretty good job.... just takes a while to do it's thing on an intricate model. :thumbsup: