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View Full Version : Edge Node issue: model and scene to test included. LW threadlocking issue?



Hieron
08-22-2013, 05:12 AM
If you guys could be so kind as to open the included content and do an F10. You'd need DPkit in order to use the Edge shader node.
116549

A look at the model in an actual scene:
116550

The provided scene crashes consistently on all pc's I tried it on (LW 11.0.3, LW 11.6, 64bit, XP and Win8, all Intel). Yet the bug itself was a bit hard to catch reproducibly at first. We use edge shading a lot in our large arch viz scenes like:
http://maps.utwente.nl/index2.php?lang=nl (that map is due for a major upgrade real soon btw see the sneak peak image above :) )

And it broke at some point. Some frames may render but as a whole the scene is darn impossible to render on a reliable basis.
So that leaves us/LW without the excellent DP Edge shader and since there is not much choice (EdgeFX isn't updated in ages afaik) that leaves us without any edge shader :|

Denis was so kind as to look into this but this specific scene renders fine for him... Speculating it could be a threadlocking issue on the LW renderer side which he can do nothing about. Hopefully some input from you guys allows to get a better feel of the issue and give it a bit more attention. Sending in a bug report due to crashing 3rd party plug-ins will get ignored unless reproduced with native tools which is darn near impossible considering the issue....

If you could post the CPU, OS and LW version used for the test that would be great.

Thanks a lot in advance...

dpont
08-22-2013, 05:27 AM
...Sending in a bug report due to crashing 3rd party plug-ins will get ignored unless reproduced with native tools which is darn near impossible considering the issue...

Sometimes reports about 3rd party plugins are not ignored,
we can have specific issues with the SDK, not reproducible with native tools,
also in this case, I wasn't very efficient for investigating,
so any help is welcome.

Denis.

Hieron
08-22-2013, 06:19 AM
.snip. some weird issues here and there.. makes no sense to me :) The provided scene renders now but the main scene still doesn't.. sigh, this is one tough nut to crack.

dpont
08-22-2013, 06:31 AM
...Replacing it with the version you sent me today (like before) makes it crash again, so I guess that version in itself is an issue too...

..Yes, was just for testing a minor theorical change for locking MT,
for less perturbing multithreading and it worked here on a quad core,
but I guess that this can introduce another problem.
so the classic way, which hasn't been changed in DPKit for preprocess
since years, is the most optimized on this point.

Denis.

Dodgy
08-22-2013, 06:42 AM
I noticed the other day that clearing a scene was taking a very long time, and I think I tracked it to the edge node (when I got rid of it, the clearing was back to a reasonable time). I've also been experiencing crashes with it in VPR so I think there's definitely something odd going on with it.

Hieron
08-22-2013, 06:49 AM
The provided scene does not crash for me anymore, which annoys the crap out of me. An earlier crashing scene I sent to Denis stopped crashing too. Regardless, the issue is still in the main scene and I know for sure that if I start making a new "crashing example" that it will take me time again and end up not crashing for some and I suppose for me at some point too..

Sadly, the biiiig scene with 200 objects etc etc still crashes. I suppose random occurances get evened out to just always crash on something somewhere in that case..
Now.. what to do what to do.. can't dance around the issue forever.

Sanchon
08-22-2013, 07:31 AM
Some time ago I had massive crashes with Edge and Relief nodes. Most of them I resolved. The main concept is to make surfaces with these nodes as different objects. While working with large scenes cut the edge node surfaces to smaller parts, make every part as one object. Tripling and Radiosity with only one bounce can help too.

dpont
08-22-2013, 07:40 AM
Some time ago I had massive crashes with Edge and Relief nodes. Most of them I resolved. The main concept is to make surfaces with these nodes as different objects. While working with large scenes cut the edge node surfaces to smaller parts, make every part as one object. Tripling and Radiosity with only one bounce can help too.

That's true when managing huge content in a small time,
however you can get good results with quads and ngons,
tripled polys means just useless calculations and less quality
or artefacts for normal output at the corners.

Denis.

Hieron
08-22-2013, 07:42 AM
Edge Node can do amazing stuff with Ngons... real nice and useful.
Splitting 200+ objects in that huge arch viz scene to separate pieces etc etc is not quite an option. That is a ton of work, might as well bring everything over to another package while at it.

Hieron
08-23-2013, 04:34 AM
Right, long night and the frame required, in the actual scene, rendered.

Some observations on LW11.6:
-Per object GI settings in LW11.6 is completely broken. Using it in the simplest of scenes (single poly etc) crashes instantly on render
-HDI is completely broken in LW11.6. Simplest of scenes will show it.

An observation on what seemed to make it render:
-In LW11.5.1 (or below) Final Gather GI with Gradient ON specifically seems needed to get the Edge Node shader to not crash in this scene.

Not sure if that last one is a fail safe way for the future but it rendered at last.

Sanchon
08-23-2013, 06:54 AM
-Per object GI settings in LW11.6 is completely broken. Using it in the simplest of scenes (single poly etc) crashes instantly on render


Yes, it's completely broken. No more simplified GI settings per instances :(

LW 11.6 build 2706 works fine.

JohnMarchant
08-24-2013, 01:46 AM
Hope this is fogbugz

Carlo_Jongen
08-24-2013, 03:05 AM
I had the same problem a few months ago. The edge shader seemed to crash a lot when using VPR. Denis was so kind to test my scene, but he couldn't reproduce my crash. I remember reinstalling the same plugin version again and it was more stable after that. I haven't used the plugin anymore so I don't know if this solved the issue permanently. Need to test this again when I have the opportunity.

Hieron
08-24-2013, 02:46 PM
I managed to generate a scene that reproducibly crashed for Denis too and he fixed the offending issue in that scene.
New Win versions of DPkit are on his site.

Thanks a lot Denis!

tcoursey
08-29-2013, 07:24 AM
Does not crash for me...dual xeon 8gb ram...can't find what version of dpkit I have installed at the moment. Should be latest.

PS: excellent work, love the "look" and the flash concept is awesome. We did something like that for one of our clients, but yours is much more elaborate! Very nice work.