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jwiede
08-20-2013, 03:18 AM
LW3DG folks: Now that there's an additional pre-release 11.6 (folks, check your download area, look for one dated Aug19), we desperately need some documentation about what's changing in each revision, what bugs are supposed to be fixed (and therefore require retesting), etc. Please?

3dworks
08-20-2013, 03:34 AM
oh, wow, surprise - thanks for the heads up, first!

yes, please NT, give us some changes/fix list, if not, how are we supposed to give you any reasonable feedback about what we are using? for example, i had several not reproducible issues with objects in complex scenes getting ignored by maxwells exporter plugin and more than one issue when packaging scenes containing similar object names just with different endings.

tcoursey
08-20-2013, 07:47 AM
Yes I love how my 11.6 (Aug 19) Pre-Release has an 11.5 (not 11.5.1 even) Read Me at the end to help guide me through what's new! :)
ok I'll cut some slack, it is a pre-release...but...

mikkelen
08-20-2013, 12:06 PM
I'm also looking for an update document!?

wyattharris
08-20-2013, 12:26 PM
Agreed, was looking all over the website and forums for change notes.

dblincoe
08-20-2013, 12:29 PM
Hello? There is usually a change/new feature/please test/fixed document. I am a little hesitant to update unless I am informed on what fixes/changes are being made. Please NT...info please!

OnlineRender
08-20-2013, 01:31 PM
the updated documents are there, not downloaded yet so not sure about the changes made but I would assume there are some...

Documentation
LightWave 11.6 Pre-Release Addendum Manual (Aug. 19)

lwanmtr
08-20-2013, 03:09 PM
Yeah, a nice list saying what's been fixed/added/removed would be nice. The updated docs dont have anything either, that i noticed.

spherical
08-20-2013, 03:47 PM
This is not the same as a bug fix list. Bug fix lists are short and to the point; providing the bug number, if there is one, and the issue addressed, along with other changes to the applications like UI and workflow alterations and new features, if any. Having a concise list, especially if you've Fogged a bug and know its number, help the person reporting to know to test under the same conditions to see if it is still reproducible.

What really bugs me (not to make a pun) is the continual manual addendum stuff. With an application as complex as LW, going back to the v10.1 manual, then reading the string of addendums all the way up to 11.6 is sometimes confusing as hell. Previously covered sections remain and, even though in later issues the new features are marked with icons and the new section bolded in the navigator, the user reads along and eventually learns that they have left the section that is new and entered something that looks all too familiar. Check a previous addendum, or the original manual itself, and, sure enough, I've read this before. But, I can't be certain that something in here hasn't changed, so read it all again and, getting to the end of it, there isn't anything different.


The 10.1 screen rez manual is 101.5 MB. The 11.0.3 addendum is 13.4 MB. Seems about right for new stuff.
The 11.5 addendum is 44 MB. Looks like a LOT of stuff changed. Granted, the changed/new sections are in bold in the navigator and the little icon signals the start of the new stuff. But, there is a lot of included content that hasn't changed and there is no indication that you have left new for unchanged. The Acrobat Bookmark highlight that indicates where you started doesn't move along with you as you move through pages.
The 11.5.1 addendum is 66 MB. It and the 11.5 version have approximately 44MB of common data.
The 11.6 addendum is 55 MB. If the intent is to have each addendum entirely supersede a previous addendum, by including entire sections in which are changes, such that it doesn't become fragmented and the user can follow the whole updated procedure along, it would seem that the byte size would continue to increase. It is ambiguity like this that is an indication that earlier addendums be retained and consulted, just in case. So, you end up with 5 manuals to search and read through. Further, if the above is true that the addendums are being integrated and supersede each other, why not just integrate the full manuals instead? Eliminate ambiguity altogether.


Having an addendum for pre-release is to be expected; it's a work in progress. Once the product has been finalized and released, the entire manual should have new sections integrated, updated sections... updated and the new manual version released as a whole. Then one may go to one source for assistance and know that what is contained there is current and complete for the version that they are running. As it is, an addendum contains a compilation of updated sections that appear in one of the three comprehensive original manuals that are separated out into Modeler, Layout and Surfacing and Rendering. So, the user must read the 10.1 manual then read the update for the version they are running and unlearn portions of what they just learned.

Phil
08-20-2013, 03:50 PM
Check out the spreadsheet area of the scene editor. Nice big hit areas for multi-selection dragging. Is it wrong to be excited by that kind of change? :D

pinkmouse
08-20-2013, 04:14 PM
...Is it wrong to be excited by that kind of change? :D

Not at all. But it would be nice to know about it without reading the entire addendum or finding things purely by chance. :)

BeeVee
08-20-2013, 05:18 PM
Okay, it's me that is writing the documentation and from the start of 11 we've said it would be an addendum to the 10 documentation, which consists of roughly 1350 pages. The documentation for 12 will be completely new and incorporate everything to the same standard as the 11.6 documentation will do. You should also note three things. 1, you do not need to refer to the 11, 11.0.3, 11.5 and 11.6 addenda to find something. The addenda are cumulative as stated on the very first page of the 11.6 manual, "This addendum manual presents in-depth explanations of how to use all new additions to LightWave 11 through 11.6. For areas outside of this addendum, please refer to the LightWave 10 documentation present in LightWave (F1) or available from your user account on lightwave3d.com." 2, You only need to look at the contents pages to find the things new to 11.5 or 11.6 since there's an icon next to them all and 3, page 2 of the 11.6 addendum has a list with page numbers of all the new stuff as well! Does it need an animated arrow?! :D

Several people have suggested to me that we just "swiftly" incorporate all the 11 stuff into the 10 manuals, use search and replace to switch 10 for 11 and everyone would be happy. If you think about how things have changed since 10, just the UI screenshots if nothing else, then think again on just how swift that would be?

Trust me, I can't wait until we have an integrated manual but it won't happen "swiftly".

B

lwanmtr
08-20-2013, 05:29 PM
Yes! Animated Arrows...Blinking too...We're attracted to movement :)

BeeVee
08-20-2013, 05:45 PM
Sometimes I think of you all as my own little T-Rexes, but then I realise you're more like Raptors and keeping still is no guarantee of safety... :S

B

/me looks into adding animations into PDFs, just in case.

BigHache
08-20-2013, 06:30 PM
sometimes i think of you all as my own little t-rexes, but then i realise you're more like raptors and keeping still is no guarantee of safety... :s

RAWR!

Otsukare! With work and all, I'll I'm just trying to keep up. And then another plug-in I have to have comes out...

spherical
08-20-2013, 06:34 PM
you do not need to refer to the 11, 11.0.3, 11.5 and 11.6 addenda to find something.

Gathered that from doing a more in depth examination. Still, the drop in file size looked to not follow that pattern.


The addenda are cumulative as stated on the very first page of the 11.6 manual, "This addendum manual presents in-depth explanations of how to use all new additions to LightWave 11 through 11.6. For areas outside of this addendum, please refer to the LightWave 10 documentation present in LightWave (F1) or available from your user account on lightwave3d.com."

Who reads that intro fluff when under a deadline and you're freaking out? ;D

Besides, if you are a user who updates as versions are released, you DO read each addendum in succession. Therefore, subsequent addenda have redundancies; because their differential is based upon the root manual of 10; not the version and its addendum released just previous. Yes, if you update directly from 10 to 11.6, you only need to read the 11.6 addendum after reading the 10 root manual. Going sequentially, as us LW junkies do as soon as a release is posted, isn't like that.


Does it need an animated arrow?! :D

Most definitely; and one pointing in the other direction when it reaches its end. Kinda like bookends, although I like the beer version better. :beerchug:


Several people have suggested to me that we just "swiftly" incorporate all the 11 stuff into the 10 manuals, use search and replace to switch 10 for 11 and everyone would be happy. If you think about how things have changed since 10, just the UI screenshots if nothing else, then think again on just how swift that would be?

Never thought it would be "swift" or necessarily easy. Few things are; especially when done correctly--which manuals need to be. Just seems that a different approach wouldn't be additional effort if it were done to the base manuals, instead of the addenda first and then all that integrated later. Must be some overriding factor that makes it a good thing.

calilifestyle
08-20-2013, 11:07 PM
Okay, it's me that is writing the documentation and from the start of 11 we've said it would be an addendum to the 10 documentation, which consists of roughly 1350 pages. The documentation for 12 will be completely new and incorporate everything to the same standard as the 11.6 documentation will do. You should also note three things. 1, you do not need to refer to the 11, 11.0.3, 11.5 and 11.6 addenda to find something. The addenda are cumulative as stated on the very first page of the 11.6 manual, "This addendum manual presents in-depth explanations of how to use all new additions to LightWave 11 through 11.6. For areas outside of this addendum, please refer to the LightWave 10 documentation present in LightWave (F1) or available from your user account on lightwave3d.com." 2, You only need to look at the contents pages to find the things new to 11.5 or 11.6 since there's an icon next to them all and 3, page 2 of the 11.6 addendum has a list with page numbers of all the new stuff as well! Does it need an animated arrow?! :D

Several people have suggested to me that we just "swiftly" incorporate all the 11 stuff into the 10 manuals, use search and replace to switch 10 for 11 and everyone would be happy. If you think about how things have changed since 10, just the UI screenshots if nothing else, then think again on just how swift that would be?

Trust me, I can't wait until we have an integrated manual but it won't happen "swiftly".

B

Um i read this but all i read is 12.

calilifestyle
08-20-2013, 11:41 PM
Honesty i was confused a bit. i just upgraded two 11.6 from 9.6 so seeing all those files where kind strange.

JohnMarchant
08-21-2013, 12:47 AM
Sometimes I think of you all as my own little T-Rexes, but then I realise you're more like Raptors and keeping still is no guarantee of safety... :S

B

/me looks into adding animations into PDFs, just in case.

Think of us more like your little children BeeVee, we can be very demanding and woe be tide you if you dont give us what we want. :):):)

Funnily on topic i got a reply to this very subject from Rob Powers and he agreed that an updated manual was needed. If its 12 then ok, but the longer its left the harder it will be, who knows, not i what 12 will bring and need integrating
:):):).

lardbros
08-21-2013, 02:24 AM
Well, I think the work you've done on the manuals is awesome Ben! Perfect grammar, lovely layout, and the tutorials and screenshots are very extensive and a breeze to follow (credit to the other guys/girls who have helped develop them too of course).


Now... what's happened to Alembic support exactly? :S

mikkelen
08-21-2013, 02:53 AM
Okay, it's me that is writing the documentation...

BeeVee, may you give us a changelog for the latest version of LW11.6?

BeeVee
08-21-2013, 03:07 AM
I'm sure a changelog will accompany the final version, just as it did with earlier releases but there are still changes to be logged. For the new stuff in 11.6 there's page 2 and the contents pages to act as a swift reference. Sorry there are no animated pointers with fanfares and flashing lights (you guys want them as well, right?) yet...

B

jwiede
08-21-2013, 04:14 AM
Folks, this discussion of new documentation is all well and good, but has little to do with my original request for change/bugfix info on the new releases, something I (and apparently others) consider fairly important. Can you please take the discussion of updated manuals/documentation to a different thread, instead of hijacking this one?

BeeVee, any notion of whether/when we can expect change/bugfix info on the new release? It'd be really useful if we could get that info with each release, as used to be done routinely with pre-release and release versions of LW.

jwiede
08-21-2013, 04:20 AM
I'm sure a changelog will accompany the final version, just as it did with earlier releases but there are still changes to be logged. For the new stuff in 11.6 there's page 2 and the contents pages to act as a swift reference. Sorry there are no animated pointers with fanfares and flashing lights (you guys want them as well, right?) yet...

BeeVee, the page 2 and contents stuff isn't really a good analogue for the changes/bugfixes/known-issues lists that used to come with each release. The latter serves a different purpose (f.e., it's focused on tracking updates in context of requests made / bugs reported). Up until recently, it was a standard part of new revision releases of LW (and a staple with revision releases on other software pkgs), and without it, it is much more difficult for those of us who attempt to help test in a methodical manner to do so efficiently.

lwanmtr
08-21-2013, 04:24 AM
:agree:

Not talking about manuals (Though I do like the way the 11.6 addendums are coming along)...just a list to tell us whats different in the one that we downloaded now from the last version.

saranine
08-21-2013, 04:24 AM
I believe that my account has been accidentally deleted. Thus I cannot update. My email, username and email are not recognised. I have checked them all.

What do I do?

jwiede
08-21-2013, 04:31 AM
I believe that my account has been accidentally deleted. Thus I cannot update. My email, username and email are not recognised. I have checked them all.

What do I do?

Best to contact LW CS via email, and in future, please start a separate thread with your issue instead of posting in unrelated existing threads.

Hieron
08-21-2013, 05:06 AM
haha.. I'm with you on the fixed/open bugs list for these minor pre-releases JWiede. Bit of a black box now...

and good luck with keeping the thread on track :)

erikals
08-21-2013, 11:20 AM
Launching a Pdf file with F1

- locate the lightwave_10_help_file.htm file, rename it to something.
- create a new htm document that looks like this, save it as lightwave_10_help_file.htm
- paste the LW116-addendum.pdf into the same directory


<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="1;file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/NewTek/LightWave11.6/docs/Help/WebHelp/LW116-addendum.pdf" />
</head>
<body>
<h1> </h1>
</body>
</html>

now when pressing F1 inside LightWave, the 11.6 pdf file will be launched


http://youtu.be/6ar-G6B8JkQ

wyattharris
08-21-2013, 02:52 PM
There is a "WhatsNew.txt" file in the updated content but it strictly covers new or changed files in the content.
C'mon guys, surely someone at LW3D has a list of what's changed. I'd like to apply the new update but I would prefer to know what might potentially break first.

BeeVee
08-22-2013, 09:28 AM
I refer the honorable poster to post #22 in this thread...

B

zapper1998
08-22-2013, 10:10 AM
oh wow


been playing with the 3D printer to much...

thanks for the heads up..

:)

Snosrap
08-22-2013, 11:06 AM
If anybody cares to know - in this latest build any F9 rendering with a camera setting of 4500 x 4500 or greater will lock LW. :) At least that's my experiance with it so far.

Snosrap
08-23-2013, 12:15 PM
This latest version has more issues than the first 11.6. :(

Sanchon
08-23-2013, 12:23 PM
GI settings per objects is causing crash too.

calilifestyle
08-23-2013, 12:35 PM
Is auto crash reporter no longer in lw 11.6

JohnMarchant
08-23-2013, 03:17 PM
Need to get these fogbugz, which is a reason it would have been nice to know what bugs had hopefully been squashed since the first 11.6.

Emmanuel
08-26-2013, 08:29 AM
Sometimes I think of you all as my own little T-Rexes, but then I realise you're more like Raptors and keeping still is no guarantee of safety... :S

B

/me looks into adding animations into PDFs, just in case.

Actually we are more like Mogwais: sooo cute and fluffy when a new LW has been released, and we grow into gremlins the longer the next release takes.