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hrgiger
11-12-2003, 11:04 PM
I decided to make an idea request to Adobe to implement an import and handling of 3D objects such as, oh I don't know, the .lwo format...I figure, why not, Adobe is a big company, and it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility for them to make this happen. Feel free to make a similar request if that's something you're interested in seeing. You can make your request here:

http://www.adobe.com/support/feature.html

I was just sure to mention how I'd like to see them import .lwo (or even .obj or .3ds), add a simple 3D viewer with pan and rotate controls, and the ability to use all of photoshop's tools and brushes directly on the 3D object and have that translate to the existing UV/atlas map of the application the model came from. It doesn't hurt to ask...

jin choung
11-12-2003, 11:56 PM
man, i remember making this request a looooooong time ago.

it is a very natural evolution.

personally, i would be more diplomatic about it though.

it's only really important to support .3ds and .obj... the universal interchange formats.

jin

Rich
11-13-2003, 12:22 AM
I don't know if this is exactly what you want but check out this plugin for After Effects to import Lwo and other popular object types www.zaxwerks.com

jin choung
11-13-2003, 12:33 AM
alas no,

that just lets you bring 3d models into an after effects composition... can be very useful but i could think of better ways to spend ma money.

what we're talking about is just opening up a 3d model - just as if it were a bitmap - and just going to town on it - painting it up like a 2 dollar whore - like stuffing a shotgun with makeup and opening up double-barreled on your wife's face - like opening up a big can of whoopass but the can is filled with paint and cream and you smear it on a chick like you just don't care.

y'know.

like that.

jin

js33
11-13-2003, 03:33 AM
Hehehe. Well how very descriptive Jin. :D
I had this idea a while back. Why not use the best paint program to paint in 3D instead of trying to make a 3D program into a paint program. If I knew more about programming I would make it myself. It would seem like some enterprising programmers would have been all over this already. I couldn't imagine it would even be that hard to integrate this into Photoshop.

Cheers,
JS

cresshead
11-13-2003, 04:45 AM
it would be V neat to see tatoo as part of lw 8 hint hint!

steve g

hrgiger
11-13-2003, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by jin choung
like opening up a big can of whoopass but the can is filled with paint and cream and you smear it on a chick like you just don't care.

y'know.

like that.

jin

My thoughts exactly.

Well, er, almost.

Ok, I wasn't thinking that at all but I agree.

colkai
11-13-2003, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by jin choung
- painting it up like a 2 dollar whore - like stuffing a shotgun with makeup and opening up double-barreled on your wife's face - like opening up a big can of whoopass but the can is filled with paint and cream and you smear it on a chick like you just don't care.

y'know.

like that.

jin

Heh-heh,
Don'tcha love it when a guy says something ya can really relate too :D - Had me smirking from ear to ear!

Worringly - I knew what ya meant ;)

meshmaster
11-13-2003, 10:39 AM
especially considering all that source code that adobe has with atmosphere....

hrgiger
11-13-2003, 11:32 AM
Like I said, it can't hurt to ask.... We have nothing to lose and everything to gain...

Nemoid
11-14-2003, 07:38 AM
Never used, but what about Maxon's Bodypaint 3D 2.0, wich works with many packages Lw included?does it works differently from what you described?
This being said, I think that in 2003 Photoshop needs the support of 3D objects too.:shrug:

hrgiger
11-14-2003, 08:27 AM
Both BodyPaint and DeepPaint will do what we're describing. However DeepPaint goes for about $800 and BodyPaint is not much better at just under $700. Photoshop runs about $650 but most people already use Photoshop so it would definately be a welcome addition.

cresshead
11-14-2003, 08:35 AM
absolutley..a "paint" program that cost 600+ should have capabilities for film colour bit depths and 3d objects like the abilaty to load 3ds, obj,low and fbx files..if a young upstart one horse company can push out tattoo i'm sure that adobe could do it or develop tatto as a plugin for photoshop...

other choices are ghost painter from cebas and body paint
though ghost painter is only for max at this time you can see that you "can" link a 3d program to photoshop....

cresshead
11-14-2003, 08:49 AM
also doesn't aura link to the hub nowdays?....could you not use that to paint textures..i have a vague memory from last years newtek stream about aura and lightwave.......

steve g

sire
11-14-2003, 11:08 AM
Didn't they abandon Aura? And even if Aura is able to access LW's textures through the Hub, this doesn't help much. What is needed is painting on a 3d object directly in a perspective view.

It would be much better to add this to an already very developed painting program like Photoshop than adding painting functions to LW's Modeler. Tattoo is nice but really very basic. Bodypaint in comparison has almost the whole functionality of Photoshop built in and some very nice features on top. It's also much better than DeepPaint. Reaching the usability of Bodypaint would be no simple step, even for Adobe. Bodypaint has a whole, excellent UV editing toolset and the unique RayBrush technology, that is you can paint into a raytraced preview directly, not only on an openGL model. And it changes accordingly in real time, even with bump maps, specular maps etc.!

Ah well, and about LW integration, there are plugins especially for LW. Look at this Quicktime movie:

ftp://ftp.maxoncomputer.co.uk/pub/bp2/movie/bp2_lw.mov

(For all who don't like buttons with icons: it can easily be changed to LW-style buttons with words in the preferences.)

It's like pressing a button in LW and instantly starting painting on the selected model. No save and load stuff necessary, just like Modeler and Layout behave when running from Hub.

comanche
11-14-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by hrgiger
Both BodyPaint and DeepPaint will do what we're describing. However DeepPaint goes for about $800 and BodyPaint is not much better at just under $700. Photoshop runs about $650 but most people already use Photoshop so it would definately be a welcome addition.

So it's about the cost? How naive to think Adobe could add full 3D and UV support to photoshop and even sell it at it's current price. Bodypaint is a unic 3D painter, cutting edge UV tools, a superb renderer included. Have you ever tried bodypaint seriously? I doubt.

Andreas

hrgiger
11-14-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by comanche
So it's about the cost? How naive to think Adobe could add full 3D and UV support to photoshop and even sell it at it's current price. Bodypaint is a unic 3D painter, cutting edge UV tools, a superb renderer included. Have you ever tried bodypaint seriously? I doubt.

Andreas

Well, there's no need to be snippy mr. snippety pants.
First of all, it's a feature request at the adobe website. You make a feature request and sometimes, they implement those ideas. They get new features every upgrade but they don't raise the price just because they have new features. Not usually anyway. As I said, it doesn't hurt to ask for it. Jin said something about a natural progression and I think eventually, you will see support for 3D formats in programs like Adobe photoshop...I'm not sure why that offends you to suggest we ask for it.
Secondly, I have tried the demo of bodypaint. And it's a great program. And it's too much money. Maybe not for some but I can't justify spending more then half of what I paid for Ligthwave just for the ability to paint across seams. I'll deal with the drawbacks of conventional UV's for $700, thank you.

EDIT: How naive to think that programs automatically raise their price everytime they implement a major new feature. Besides, even if Adobe did raise their price even to say $800, I'd still get it because I'm going to use Photoshop regardless, so it might as well have 3D support.

comanche
11-14-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by hrgiger
Well, there's no need to be snippy mr. snippety pants.

Sorry for being snippy, hrgiger.

It's not that I'm against someone making a feature request at the adobe site. If they'll ever plan to support 3d painting, it's good. If they don't raise the prise, it's good. I think it's a complete different story to offer 3d painting abilities, uv editing tools (and so on) in comparsion to 2d painting and image editing. Instead of waiting for a adobe implementation, I'd go and paint in an application that's available NOW. You think $700 is too much for "the ability to paint across seams". If it's that simple, Adobe hopefully will implement it. But I seriously doubt it. Adobe would make another cool product and not a "cool feature" inside Photoshop.

I'm not against your request, hrgiger, please don't get me wrong. But I came here to write down my opinion, just like you did. There would be a whole lot more for me to explain and I'm sure it would not sound that harsh or "snippy" - if only I could talk in german.

Cheers,
Andreas

js33
11-14-2003, 03:54 PM
Perhaps 3D paint in Photoshop would be implemented by a PS plugin writer instead of Adobe itself. Maybe you should approach some of the higher end PS plugin companies.

Cheers,
JS

Nemoid
11-14-2003, 04:35 PM
Got some infos about Bodypaint and it seems to be very good, better than Deep paint, wich have some prob regarding subpatch UV deformation (but here I think there's some problem in the Lw side ) and also wich Lightwave verson is going to disappear. This according many users opinion on Cg talk.
Bodypaint instead seems to have no prob, be better for UI and many other things.it have unwrapping, and rendering capabilities too. :) Maxon did very well, and C4D damn that app is growing at every release!!

I agree about PS, though because many users know it and have it ,even if I think Adobe is not so popular for introducing huge new tools in Photoshop. however, better asking...who knows??

WizCraker
11-14-2003, 05:03 PM
Isn't that how DeepPaint got started it was first just a plugin for Photoshop to paint on the unwrapped UV Maps. Then as development progressed to 1.0 it became a full 3D painter with the addition of the PhotShop plugin. Then they came out with Texture Tools which helped with the seam issue but with DeepPaint and Texture Tools the cost is like $1200 pricey. I could see Adobe or even Corel's ProCreate division creating somthing for the masses.

WizCraker
11-14-2003, 05:07 PM
BodyPaint seems to be going in a good direction now that Maxon is focusing on porting to LW and other packages. I remember a few weeks ago I recieved an email from them looking for Testers to help them work out the kinks in the transition from LW > Bodypaint and back.

I would choose BodyPaint over DeepPaint. It however would be nice to have some sort of basic paint program in Modeler as HRGiger stated.

Nemoid
11-14-2003, 05:21 PM
Yap! plus, Maxon seems to be a good software house, very aggressive and clever now. doing a module like Bodypaint, wivch you can buy with the app, but wich it works also with other app is a clever thing at all.
I agree Nt could introduce some tool for painting. if only they did'nt sell Aura, they could utilize that app for the painting part, feeding it up for 3d painting, with new tools.

hrgiger
11-14-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by comanche
Sorry for being snippy, hrgiger.



It's alright. I was just a little confused at why making a feature request would make you snippy. I just figured the more people that ask for it, perhaps the better the chance that Adobe or some other developer would consider the idea if it thought it had an audience. Like I said, no harm in asking. If I had the money to throw around, I'd go ahead and get bodypaint but as I'm in school for programming, money is not flowing like wine. Yet, anyway.

A Mejias
11-14-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by cresshead
absolutley..a "paint" program that cost 600+ should have capabilities for film colour bit depths and 3d objects like the abilaty to load 3ds, obj,low and fbx files..if a young upstart one horse company can push out tattoo i'm sure that adobe could do it or develop tatto as a plugin for photoshop...

other choices are ghost painter from cebas and body paint
though ghost painter is only for max at this time you can see that you "can" link a 3d program to photoshop....


Here you go...
http://www.cebas.com/news/read.asp?UD=10-7888-33-788&NID=64

js33
11-14-2003, 11:56 PM
Well that's great for Max users but what about LW?

Cheers,
JS

hrgiger
11-15-2003, 09:46 AM
I think Tatoo has potential if the maker can manage to keep the price low. It's no photoshop yet as far as painting tools go but it looks like a great little app with lots of promise. I see version 1.2 has just been released.

I guess my thought as far as photoshop goes, I just assume that Adobe has to know how many digital creators/animators use Photoshop for their texturing needs. I would think that the evolution of photoshop would eventually include 3D support.

That would certainly make the decision of what painting app to use easy.

Nemoid
11-15-2003, 10:55 AM
Well, if PS would support 3D formats it would be surely powerfull. I think everyone in 3D uses PS for texturing issues, so they know tha app yet. I think that Adobe could do that, but in a more realistic way, I think that someone will go with an external plug for PS, rather than including the tools in Ps by default.

the fact is that currently, Bodypaint is a bit pricey. a price like 200-300$ would be far better.

Edit: just posted a Tgrea about the PS request in CGTalk General discussion forum. lets see what other 3D artists think about!!

Emmanuel
11-17-2003, 07:54 AM
Yeah, but why focus so much on Photopopp ?
I mean, there are other tools like for example Paint Shop Pro or so that could be much more easier to talk to than the behemoth Adobe, right ?
Agreed, PShop is defacto standard, but I for one would be willing to buy Paint Shop Pro if it had the Ghostapinter functionality at least.
I suspect that its LWs architecture again who stands in the way, or why would it be possible for Ghostpainter to share windows in such a way between Max and PS ?

Nemoid
11-17-2003, 08:28 AM
Well, reality tells that Ps is mainly used from the majority of 3D artists, and in different fields like 2d illustration and for print output, both in pc and mac. paint shop pro is good at all, though, but its not so diffused at a professional level. this is the main reason for wich asking for a similar implementation in Ps ( be sure that the other apps will go with it just after Ps).

however,again, maybe a good external plugin house will do the job more easily than Adobe.. this request was a simple wondering. its more up to Adobe considering the request, if many usrs make it.
no polemic at all. apps like deep paint and bodypaint are there yet, so I see no real prob.

its just a easier way of thinking.

hrgiger
11-17-2003, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Emmanuel
Yeah, but why focus so much on Photopopp ?


I just mentioned the idea of making a request to Adobe because they're a big company and perhaps would have more of a chance of implementing such an idea. It doesn't mean they will but you might as well ask.
I say make a request to your painting app of choice also.

KillMe
11-17-2003, 12:17 PM
after seeing how bodypaint 2 intergrates with lightwave from that vid i'm extremely interested in this - damned tempting

argh so much i want to buy and limited funds

new workstation (nice dual opteron)

dune buggy kit (hell yeah yeehhhhh haaaaaa)

bodypaint and other software

arghhhh

but back on topic yeah i'm thinking it looks cool would be nice to see a 3d painting option in photoshop but its not likely to ever be part of teh core package since thats really a photo editing piece of software perhaps adobe will make another produt aimed at 3d industry which will basically ahve similar funcatinily as phtooshop but wtha 3d viewport and charge us even mroe for the pleaure of using it

cresshead
11-17-2003, 02:00 PM
what does adobe atmosphere have in it?
it's adobes first 3d app BTW

steve g

Mike Pauza
11-19-2003, 08:47 AM
Have you guys looked at zBrush lately?

-Mike Pauza (3DPhysicist)