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saranine
08-18-2013, 04:21 AM
I am 38. In 13 years of schooling not once was I given any task that involved a 3D object. I left school with no idea of my 3D abilities. Well, that is with the exception of some bus trips where I spent the hours making up 3D mental shapes that spun around.

When you look at the importance of 3D stuff from buildings to satellite dishes to mountains, it amazes me that school could neglect such abilities to this extent. If I were to use the Edward De Bono opposition of industrial age education versus space age education, schools have a long, long way to go to be anything space age. They are closer to the stone age.

I have a favourite phrase about these failings in our society. I call them "welcome to your paradise". If you had any false illusions that society was a long series of rational improvements and ideas then I am sorry to disappoint. There is no paradise for you. There is only stupidity where society pretends to value something [3D] and in reality ignores it in a bizarre fashion. Part of the reason for 3D abilities being neglected is what I call "the worship of the number". That is, there is an idea that all that matters to create engineers of the future is that they can crunch numbers. Everything is a number. There's no thought to thinking in shapes.

THe education system failed me. I didn't fail it. What a waste. If there were an Olympic medal for 3D shapes I would be going for it.

stiff paper
08-18-2013, 08:13 AM
What on Earth are you talking about?

You're 38. You were 18 years old in 1993 and unless you were going on to University you were pretty much leaving the education system at that point.

In 1993 3D hardly even existed.

There was certainly nobody out there who could have been teaching it at every school up and down the land in every Western country. In 1993 we were just getting our very first copies of the original 3D Studio at Microprose. That's right. A world famous, big selling games studio that was specifically famous for making games in 3D was just getting 3D Studio.

The education system might well have failed you, but not in the way you seem to think.

stevecullum
08-18-2013, 08:41 AM
In 1993 3D hardly even existed.

Indeed - I had to wait until I was 28 before I could study 3d animation at University.(lot older now sadly) However they did have technical drawing classes which involved drawing 3d geometric shapes etc.. when I was 14 and still at school.

PixelDust
08-18-2013, 09:26 AM
When I was in high school, pocket calculators were just becoming affordable. Here's one way my school failed me: My advanced math teacher in high school was the cheerleading coach. We were supposed to be learning pre-college math (trig, etc.) One day, one of the students said to the teacher, "We don't need to learn that (stuff)", and she ran out of the room crying! After that, we played Mastermind on the chalkboard for weeks because she was the type who wanted her students to like her. Needless to say, when I got to college, I didn't know trigonometry (among other things). I had other bad math teachers, but she was the worst.

The first time I got to use a computer was in a college chemistry class. Our computer lab had maybe a dozen dumb terminals and one printer, and we had to use punch cards to write a program in Fortran. Mind you, I had never touched a computer before, so this put me off using computers for quite a while! I didn't really get interested in computers until 1995 - Even with Windows 3.11 and DOS, it was easier than what we had in college. A couple years later, I discovered computer graphics - that's what really got me into computers. Now, I've built several PCs and I'm the family computer guru. But I still suck at math. :grumpy:

Ryan Roye
08-18-2013, 09:40 AM
One always needs to challenge their learning resources; and if they don't challenge or inspire, they should be left behind.

gerry_g
08-18-2013, 09:49 AM
I was given 3D blocks of wood of varying lengths and coulour that represented integers ranging from one to ten to help visualise more clearly numerical values as a child in school, this was in 1959, I think you are wrong to say 3D in education is non existent. Also I would like to point out (at least I believe I am correct in saying) the Mensa IQ test uses many shape recognition and shape pattern sequence recognition tests as part of its evaluation process

Dexter2999
08-18-2013, 10:31 AM
I'm 44. No 3D available until college in my time. But I did take Mechanical Drawing, a step towards being a draftsman. I don't feel that was wasted. And I do know that you can take AutoCad while in high school (at least I know they did even back then at the vocational school.)

Sekhar
08-18-2013, 11:09 AM
Wait, didn't they have clay modeling in school since...they had schools? BTW, PixieDust, that's one cool picture you have for your avatar.

shrox
08-18-2013, 11:09 AM
I am 48, I was working in 3D in 1993, 3D Studio. Maybe I was a pioneer of sorts, although most of the stuff was for Japan.

The education system was joke when I was in high school 1978-1982, I knew more than most of my teachers, some appreciated that, some hated it. There were no classes for geniuses then like the Magnet schools today.

Waves of light
08-18-2013, 12:17 PM
I'm 38 and there wasn't any 3D that I can remember in school. The school had the latest BBC Master compacts and one Mac. On that we mostly did programming and one project did involve using code to create 3D shapes (albeit using dots to create vertices). There was, however, one piece of kit that sticks in my mind and that was a massive, massive CD ROM player. It was on loan in one of our geography lessons. The teacher had it hooked up to a large TV and I was blown away because it was 'interactive'. You walked around in a 3D type museum, clicking on the hanging pictures to play a clip linked to the subject.

Rayek
08-18-2013, 12:45 PM
I am 42, and at school we had weekly arts and crafts classes up till my ~15th year. So we did get to work with "3d", building stuff with our hands. And during art classes we were taught simple perspective drawing. Also a couple of years of geometry and shapes and stuff. I enjoyed it all (except math).

At home I did a lot of clay modeling, LEGO. Meccano, and glued plastic models together (you know, airplanes, ships, etc).

Then in 1985 I got an Amstrad 664 and got books on 3d models (wireframes, really). Early 1986 we got an Amiga, and I started to work with hacked versions of VideoScape and Sculpt 3D. I read a lot of things about rendering and ray tracing at that point. Made a lot of simple models.

School is not the only place you are taught "3D" - I would be amazed if anyone here never build things with LEGO, Mecanno, and so on. I also think you cannot blame school for all your "lack of 3D" experience.

PixelDust
08-18-2013, 12:54 PM
Wait, didn't they have clay modeling in school since...they had schools? BTW, PixieDust, that's one cool picture you have for your avatar.

Yep - That's my cat, Pedro. I don't remember having clay modeling in school, but I did have Play-Doh at home.

Shrox, I was in high school about the same time as you, and my education was a joke as well. The school cared more about football than academics. I do admit, my Language Arts teachers were excellent - they taught me what I needed to know for college and then some. I was in a gifted class for science, but it was "self-directed" (big mistake). The teacher did nothing at all. I do remember we dissected a fetal pig - actually, the teacher dissected the pig and we watched because they only had one pig. Science really wasn't my forte, but I didn't find out till I got to college.

Sorry to derail your topic, Saranine, but I still have a lot of resentment about how poor my education was. But I've been able to educate myself to a great degree, thanks to being persistent and to libraries and the Internet. Self-motivation goes a long way.

shrox
08-18-2013, 01:23 PM
...and my education was a joke as well. The school cared more about football than academics...

This is what's wrong with America.

116483

Rayek
08-18-2013, 01:52 PM
This is what's wrong with America.

116483

Oh wow.

I count myself VERY lucky I grew up in Europe (the Netheralnds): free education till the end of my University Masters! :-)
Almost embarrassed to say here that I stuck around at University for 8 years, doing all sorts of interesting courses and undergrads. Three years of Classical Chinese, one year of anthropology classes, even obscure courses like Sanskrit. Also History of Science, and so on. All this aside from my main masters. I learned a lot, and tremendously enjoyed the experience.

Education should be free, in my opinion.

digitaldoc
08-18-2013, 02:05 PM
I took the Dental School Admission Test (DAT) in 1974, about 1/3 of the test was 3d spatial identification, reconstruction and manipulation. Quite interesting. Not something that was taught, more a test of how your brain could visualize 3d in 2d space. Went to Med School instead. CT scans were just being done in the late 70's, then MRI when it became much more important to visualize the 3d body from 2d imagery.

http://predds.net/perceptual-ability-practice-tests/

JonW
08-18-2013, 03:09 PM
In 2001 I was going to do a Max 3d course at TAFE. I was looking forward to the course. It was costing me an arm & 2 legs, but I thought it would be worthwhile adding to my skills of physical model making. I bought a new Athlon MP 1800+ (dual CPU) box stuffed with 3.5 GHz of ram (the fastest box one could buy), Ouch!

The day before the course was to start they cancelled it as there was not enough people! I couldn't return the computer as I had it custom built. It had to be ordered many weeks ahead due to the lead time. You needed a computer for the course! I wanted the best tools so I could learn as easily as possible!

What hurt more even more, I was a Mac person & now I had a $8k PC I didn't know what to do with!

digitaldoc
08-18-2013, 03:13 PM
What hurt more even more, I was a Mac person & now I had a $8k PC I didn't know what to do with!

What did you do with the PC?

JonW
08-18-2013, 03:33 PM
Not a lot. At least I was very busy with plenty work, lots of physical models. I did gradually get into 3d. Eventually buying LW6.5 $4300, Mac version!

glebe digital
08-18-2013, 05:29 PM
Going back 25 years, I had MiniCad in 1988 (which had a few 3d capabillities by '90), then Infini-D in '91 and StrataStudio to LW by '95.
There simply WERE no courses in those days.......you educated yourself. Magic days.

shrox
08-18-2013, 05:38 PM
Going back 25 years, I had MiniCad in 1988 (which had a few 3d capabillities by '90), then Infini-D in '91 and StrataStudio to LW by '95.
There simply WERE no courses in those days.......you educated yourself. Magic days.

Yes, we were art wizards!

roboman
08-18-2013, 05:46 PM
Before you can even answer the question of the school system failing you, what a school system is meant to do must be answered. I really think the objective, of most in the 'management positions' of public education, is to graduate kids who aren't animals and will function at least at a minimal level in the world. I really don't think they have higher goals.

I'm 51 now. I only went to high school for 2.5 of 4 years. At that point I had taken every class worth taking. I still take collage and university classes that interest me. I really don't think you can count on schools to lead you where you want to go, unless your goals are very low. I think the best you can do is to take what they have to offer, learn what you can where ever you can and go for the things that interest you where ever they present them selves.

shadowshifter
08-18-2013, 07:37 PM
Who's got kids? Is it any better these days? :)

In all seriousness the only way the education system has failed me personally is that it doesn't really cater to people with my kind of brain (whatever kind that is). I never did particularly well at school (particularly in the maths department, I apparently have the numerical equivalent of dyslexia) and most of the stuff I know is either from uni or self-taught so it does feel like a bit of a waste of 12 years. Other than that schools tend to be behind the times a bit because it seems that curriculula take for freaking ever to write and be agreed on and approved and whatnot so introducing things is tedious.

My sister now works at the little school that we used to go to on Christmas Island and as far as I can tell from talking to her, as close as they get is still digital and interactive multimedia (essentially, basic 2d animations that you just watch or can click on etc depending on which one you're doing) which is pretty much what I did in 1997-98 when I was in senior high school. I've also heard rumblings that there are people who want programming taught in at least high school or better yet primary school (I did logo and basic in upper primary/junior high! :D) so if that happens 3d will probably eventually sneak in there as well.

When I went home recently we stopped in at the museum and the ex-schoolteacher volunteer who was working there was quite literally flabbergasted when my 8yo used the word "arachnid' in casual conversation as it's apparently a "big word". Who knew. Anyway my kids are homeschooled and they have Sculptris :)

saranine
08-18-2013, 08:36 PM
OK. I will have to think about these replies. I will admit that in the OP I was thinking more about generic 3D ability not being recognised rather than 3D training such as zbrush or lightwave!!!

IN the early 80's there used to be some good art TV shows for kids. I watched one when I was 5 and I made my own cardboard pyramid :)

Dodgy
08-18-2013, 09:19 PM
I went to school from 1979 to 1992, and first hit 3d doing a cad course in 1989. It was only just before uni in 1992 that I got hold of Imagine and could start learning 3d properly.

Greenlaw
08-18-2013, 10:51 PM
In 1993 I was experimenting with integrating 3D into digital comics--you can see the results here: Beastmark (1993) (http://www.littlegreendog.com/comics/beastmark/beastmark001.php#.UhGgTD9D3ms)

Two years later, I experimented with creating a children's book using 3D: Turkey For Dinner (http://www.littlegreendog.com/books/turkeyForDinner/tfd001.php#.UhGgtT9D3ms)

These are pretty crude examples by today's standards but this was how I prepared myself for a career in 3D. I didn't learn how to do this in a school--I don't think schools taught this stuff yet, and if they did, I wouldn't have been able do afford the classes. I just did it as a hobby because it was interesting to me.

By 1996, I was creating 3D gameboard illustrations for Megablocks--my first real 3D job--and by 1998, I was creating 3D for feature film productions. That was a long time ago but I'm still experimenting with 3D and learning new tricks to further my career. Here's my current demo reel: Greenlaw's Demo Reel (http://www.littlegreendog.com/about/greenlaw.php#.UhGkkj9D3ms)

My belief is that if you have a true passion for something, you'll make it happen. I'm not saying it will be easy (it's not) but you can do it if you really want to. (You have to be a bit stubborn too.) :p

G.

Greenlaw
08-18-2013, 10:55 PM
One more tip: become friends with people who are smarter than you. You can learn a lot from them. :)

Greenlaw
08-18-2013, 10:59 PM
Oh, in case anybody is wondering, my two 'oldie' examples above were created using a Macintosh IIsi with a whopping 17 MB of RAM and a 25 Mhz processor. Times have changed haven't they? :D

G.

Additional notes: Beastmark was created using Swivel 3D, Adobe Illustrator 5.0 and Photoshop 3.0. Turkey For Dinner was created using Ray Dream Designer and Photoshop (3.2, I think.)

shrox
08-18-2013, 11:20 PM
The very first "digital" art was 8 colored pencils and grid paper. Each colored square was assigned a color value (1-8), a coordinate on a 640x480 grid, and MANUALLY typed into the computer. I think that was 1947...OK, 1991 actually. It was for a little video slot machine company in Phoenix.

stiff paper
08-19-2013, 01:20 AM
...coordinate on a 640x480 grid, and MANUALLY typed into the computer. I think that was 1947...OK, 1991 actually.

In 1991? But whyyyyyyy?

DPaint had been out for years by 1991. I hadn't done the graph paper thing since... oooh... 1983?


One more tip: become friends with people who are smarter than you. You can learn a lot from them. :)
Yes. This is the best piece of advice in the whole world. But it won't work for anybody out there that's actually an idiot. If you're an idiot then the smart people will keep running away. So if you keep noticing herds of smart people galloping away from you... well... you know...

Greenlaw
08-19-2013, 02:27 AM
Run faster? :D

meshpig
08-19-2013, 06:30 AM
I was given 3D blocks of wood of varying lengths and coulour that represented integers ranging from one to ten to help visualise more clearly numerical values as a child in school, this was in 1959, I think you are wrong to say 3D in education is non existent. Also I would like to point out (at least I believe I am correct in saying) the Mensa IQ test uses many shape recognition and shape pattern sequence recognition tests as part of its evaluation process

Those beautiful blocks were called
Cuisenaire... (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=cuisenaire+rods+wooden+box&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.50768961,d.dGI,pv.xjs.s.en_US.E_1kRF_UP4s.O&biw=2035&bih=1032&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=_QoSUrmqN4qIiQeAzIHYCA)

- yeah but "mensa" is a complete British myth. My IQ is the same now as it was when I was 13; !38. That's not too many wrong answers off the 98th percentile as in it's only meant to determine the mean and with a bit of practise...

There are Employer IQ tests out there too where I consistently score 80 :)

pinkmouse
08-19-2013, 06:41 AM
The only thing IQ tests measure is how good you are at IQ tests... :)

shrox
08-19-2013, 10:14 AM
In 1991? But whyyyyyyy?

DPaint had been out for years by 1991. I hadn't done the graph paper thing since... oooh... 1983?


You work with what the employer has. Within a week he had bought DP, I wasn't about to continue like that!

Waves of light
08-19-2013, 01:13 PM
Deluxe Paint - What a program and I remember those Cuisenaire blocks too.

Tranimatronic
08-19-2013, 03:17 PM
I'm 42. I was told at school that majoring in both art AND computer science was a big mistake.

There would be no jobs, the skillsets were vastly different and wouild even possibly detract from one another. Fast forward 20 years and I'm a PipelineTD at a VFX house explaining why the pretty pictures wont draw to artists and why logical datasets wont fit into artists workflows to developers.

I talk regularly with people that have just graduated from various film schools that change upwards of $40,000 per year to train them to do roto as a way to get their foot in the door of a large studio and work their way up from there.

I know many many people that graduated with degrees, even masters degrees, that end up in a field totally unrelated to the one they studied.
I think the original poster's expectations of education are a little off, as you go to school to learn how to learn, NOT to parrot learn the ins and outs of a specific career.

JonW
08-19-2013, 03:28 PM
as you go to school to learn how to learn, NOT to parrot learn the ins and outs of a specific career.

Agree, school is about learning how to learn.



We are all learning looking at this forum! I learnt LW far quicker looking at posts even if they were on aspects of LW that I was never really going to use. Just seeing what other people do can give you an idea on another aspect of LW that you never would have thought of.

wesleycorgi
08-19-2013, 07:45 PM
I find that the best training I got for 3D work was taking drawing/painting classes from a famous local artist. When I was 11-13, I worked in her studio (cleaning up the place, framing pictures, etc.) and in return she gave me lessons. She trained me to observe the world and this has been my foundation ever sense. Although I rarely hand draw anymore, the lessons about composition, color, perspective, etc. are deeply ingrained.

And they still don't teach any 3D in public school, at least not for my kids in Los Angeles.

meshpig
08-20-2013, 02:56 AM
Deluxe Paint - What a program and I remember those Cuisenaire blocks too.

I actually studied Latin at school back in the days where you had to wear caps and ask the senior master's permission to go out in public on weeknights... nearly.

- "In absentia luci-fluctus, tenebrae vinciunt": In absentia lucis fluctibus tenebrę abundat: "vinciunt" is adjectival as in "tied-up" or bound by. "lucis fiuctibus" gives you the past tense and the plural but of course before Einstein light and waves only had a cursory connection:)

stiff paper
08-20-2013, 07:15 AM
I actually studied Latin at school back in the days where you had to wear caps and ask the senior master's permission to go out in public on weeknights... nearly.

Me too.

But what do you mean when you say 'Nearly'?

Actually, to be slightly more serious, you'd have to pay an awful lot of money now to have the sort of education that includes a school cap and Latin.

shrox
08-20-2013, 10:48 AM
In the USA, children are no long taught cursive writing, or how to read an analog clock.

As Mrs. Krabappel from the Simpsons siad: "Children, please! If you don't learn Roman numerals you'll never know the years certain motion pictures were copyrighted."

dickbill
08-20-2013, 01:24 PM
I am 38. In 13 years of schooling not once was I given any task that involved a 3D object....

Bad luck indeed. I am even older but my parents gave me some 3d design projects when I was only a baby, you know, legos, wood cubes, kids cars, etc.

Now seriously, in truth, in the US at least, most colleges schools are nothing more than scams, promising jobs that don't exist anymore.
A friend of mine with an engineering degree and phd has set its own business (since he was never able to get a faculty position, big scam here too, the way it works) by doing project management in various software projects. Now he said, you CAN'T live writing code in the US, this task is outsourced for much cheaper ($1/hour in the Philippines). By comparison, he bills his own time for coding at $90/hour, including displacement and therefore he hires Philippino programmers who write the code for him for his projects.
How much is an engineering degree in computer sciences in the Philippines versus how much a US student will accumulate debt for the same degree BEFORE he can enter the market, eventually realizing he has to compete with Philippino programmers at $1/h?
You got the ideas.

dickbill
08-20-2013, 01:28 PM
In the USA, children are no long taught cursive writing, or how to read an analog clock...

Yeah, that would give them a chance to read their own US Constitution, you know "We, the People..."
Way too subversive in >2013

bazsa73
08-20-2013, 01:36 PM
School is the preparationary insitute for volunteer enslavement.

JonW
08-20-2013, 03:45 PM
Bad luck indeed. I am even older but my parents gave me some 3d design projects when I was only a baby, you know, legos, wood cubes, kids cars, etc.

Now seriously, in truth, in the US at least, most colleges schools are nothing more than scams, promising jobs that don't exist anymore.
A friend of mine with an engineering degree and phd has set its own business (since he was never able to get a faculty position, big scam here too, the way it works) by doing project management in various software projects. Now he said, you CAN'T live writing code in the US, this task is outsourced for much cheaper ($1/hour in the Philippines). By comparison, he bills his own time for coding at $90/hour, including displacement and therefore he hires Philippino programmers who write the code for him for his projects.
How much is an engineering degree in computer sciences in the Philippines versus how much a US student will accumulate debt for the same degree BEFORE he can enter the market, eventually realizing he has to compete with Philippino programmers at $1/h?
You got the ideas.

If the job can be done remotely at a cheaper price, it will! Even my side of model making with physical models, I have to compete with models made in slave labour countries, lost a lot of work this way.

My niece is still too young, but she is already very worried what type of work she wants to do. Even at her age she is fully aware of not going into a career that her job won't last long!

Parents, Aunts & Uncles are concerned about it as well!

kopperdrake
08-20-2013, 04:54 PM
Saranine - I think I get what you're saying, but the reality is that the main function of the school system, at least here in the UK, is to get as many children to a predetermined level so they can do well enough in the outside world. To a certain extent, the level you will eventually reach is down to your own personal nouse, but also a lot of luck.

I'm 43, I had a similar issue to yourself when at school. Like many of us here, I assume, I have the luck of having a decent enough left and right side of the brain. I'm decent at maths and science, but also the arts and design. At school we only had BBC Micros - no 3D existed in the computer sense of the word, but lego was my big thing outside school - lego and drawing, and also programming and photography - my father was a photographer in the RAF so it rubbed off. In fact I wrote a drawing program for the Acorn Atom at the age of 15 out of frustration that there was no drawing program for it, whilst my friends with more up-to-date computers had basic drawing packages to use.

For A levels I took Maths, Physics and Graphical Communication - the latter being a mix of technical illustration, CAD and drafting (with pens). I did not choose fine art as it did nothing for me at the time. I was still very much in the left side of my brain. I had a good imagination - my right-side worked well, but I did not know how to apply it to any left-sided activities.

This is where my schooling *almost* failed me.

I wanted to go to art college to study technical illustration at the age of 18. The fine art teacher at school - a Mr Braun - refused point blank to write me a letter of recommendation, which I needed to gain entry to the art college The problem was I hadn't taken his fine art class, and as far as he was concerned, you needed to be good at fine art to attend art college. Luckily my graphical communication teacher, Mr Gilbert (I wish I knew his first name as I would love to thank him) must have seen something and he backed me. If it weren't for him, my future would have been very different.

At art college I learned how to apply my imagination to every problem I came across, in an almost epiphanic way. One day, after about 4 months of art college, it was as though a gateway in my head was swung open. This was thanks to a lecturer called Noel Connor who was absolutely relentless in cutting the crap and getting to the crux of an issue. This led to me realising that there was a place in the world for kids that liked to play with lego or meccano, but who could also knock out a decent enough drawing, and had the ability for fluffy thinking along with a more logical analytical thinking, as and when appropriate.

After a year at art college I went on to study Industrial Design for 5 years, where both sides of the brain got a decent work-out. Shortly after, whilst setting out on a new design business venture fresh from university, I learned of a new program called LightWave from a friend. And haven't looked back since.

The point is those two people did the right thing for me, and that is where a decent tutor will show their true merit. The schooling system can fail if you are unlucky enough to not cross paths with the tutors who can spot your potential. It shouldn't be like that, but I guess human nature will inevitably mean many teachers will end up going through the motions, or just become stuck in the world they know of, like my old fine art teacher.

Ironically, it is he that I probably owe the most to, as his disbelief in me drove me on like no other person I have ever met - and still does to an extent.

BokadCastle
08-20-2013, 05:48 PM
I actually studied Latin at school back in the days where you had to wear caps and ask the senior master's permission to go out in public on weeknights... nearly.

- "In absentia luci-fluctus, tenebrae vinciunt": In absentia lucis fluctibus tenebrę abundat: "vinciunt" is adjectival as in "tied-up" or bound by. "lucis fiuctibus" gives you the past tense and the plural but of course before Einstein light and waves only had a cursory connection:)

Hmm...I also wore a cap and did French and Latin.
Nothing practical like History, Geography or, god forbid, Tech Drawing.
So naturally I spent my entire working life drawing...
Luceat Lux Vestra

Riff_Masteroff
08-20-2013, 08:23 PM
"Computers" were introduced to me when I was a sophomore in High School. Bourne High School, Bourne, Massachusetts, US. Given that school had no computers, my science teacher asked me if I would like to learn something about them. I said yes, and they sent me to Clarkson Institute of Technology (upstate NY) for three weeks during the summer. Wow. Had to learn a language: FORTRAN. Only one computer at Clarkson, a mainframe. Its only input (and output) was IBM punch cards. Using a 'keypunch' machine, I would copy my self-authored simple program onto a stack of them (paper, they were). Put a rubber band around the stack . . . .give it to a lady who would add it the other stacks waiting to be 'computed'. Eventually the 'puters response was returned to me as . . . . what else, a stack of punch cards.

jeric_synergy
08-20-2013, 08:56 PM
I took shop in Jr. High. We learned to do (very) basic mechanical drawing. it was VERY like Modeler's 4 windows.

BUT, for 3d animation art class would have been more to the point. Especially sculpture.

meshpig
08-21-2013, 04:56 AM
Hmm...I also wore a cap and did French and Latin.
Nothing practical like History, Geography or, god forbid, Tech Drawing.
So naturally I spent my entire working life drawing...
Luceat Lux Vestra

Via coeunt! (way to go mate). I was saying only a few years before my time if you wanted to go out to see a film or dinner during the week you had to wear the school uniform and seek permission, at least notify the senior master... "Prussian mind-meld"; Grammar schools do
demand of their subjects an incredible investment in a rather totalising culture. You know ... "Education: essentially the means of ruining the exceptions for the good of the rule" and "Higher Education: essentially the means of directing taste against the exceptions for the good of the mediocre" :)

dsol
08-21-2013, 04:56 AM
My gateway into 3D came when Amiga Format gave away a full copy of Imagine 2.0 on the front cover, and started running a series of tutorials on it. Ended up using it (and imagine 3.0) for all my college 3D work on my 2MB A1200 (later upgraded to a 50Mhz '030 with 4MB of fast RAM). For my final major project at uni, I switched over to a 3D app called Lightwave (version 3) to render the animated sections....

edit:
...and if you're curious, here's some stills from that final project - http://www.digitaldistortion.net/item_wotw.htm

erikals
08-21-2013, 08:04 AM
"Computers" were introduced to me when I was a sophomore in High School. Bourne High School, Bourne, Massachusetts, US. Given that school had no computers, my science teacher asked me if I would like to learn something about them. I said yes, and they sent me to Clarkson Institute of Technology (upstate NY) for three weeks during the summer. Wow. Had to learn a language: FORTRAN. Only one computer at Clarkson, a mainframe. Its only input (and output) was IBM punch cards. Using a 'keypunch' machine, I would copy my self-authored simple program onto a stack of them (paper, they were). Put a rubber band around the stack . . . .give it to a lady who would add it the other stacks waiting to be 'computed'. Eventually the 'puters response was returned to me as . . . . what else, a stack of punch cards.

too cool... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

http://euterpesspiritus.net/wp-content/uploads/tarjeta_perforada.jpg

stiff paper
08-21-2013, 11:12 AM
...FORTRAN. Only one computer at Clarkson, a mainframe. Its only input (and output) was IBM punch cards. Using a 'keypunch' machine...
Punchcards were just about EOL by the time I got to hang around a mainframe (a "Prime" something or other). We were still taught about them, and paper tape too (same as punch cards, but a long strip of thin card that was usually on a spool). Somehow, in my foolish mind, one of those strips of punched tape feeding into a machine (or being stamped out) is always going to seem much more futuristic than an iPad...

The future just isn't as futuristic as it used to be.

BokadCastle
08-21-2013, 04:11 PM
I remember the IBM punch cards.
Each student had a small box with the cards neatly in order.
If you spilled the box, the cards would be out of order and useless.
So naturally, we had push and shove fights going down the corridor to get the cards processed.
Malicki's cards usually ended up on the floor, we'd put them back in the box and stuff the computer.
I was about 16 -17 at the time, please forgive. :tsktsk:

Tranimatronic
08-22-2013, 11:13 AM
The future just isn't as futuristic as it used to be.

haha! brilliant. AND true !

sandman300
08-22-2013, 02:30 PM
I am also 42.

My first real exposure to computers, was in the Scouts, Because of the expense, the troop as a whole earned the Computers merit badge. I remember the punch cards and waiting and eventually forgetting about them and being surprised and disappointed by their results. Of course the requirements for the merit badge were much less then they are today. I found this story that shows the differences. http://ldsorganplayer.com/2012/05/24/computers-merit-badge-now-and-then-1967/

I don't think you can really blame the education system. Computers were much more expensive back in the 80's and 90's. In my high school (and I went to a relatively large school - around 400 in my graduating class) we had a handful of apple 2e computers. And not many kids were allowed access (they were hugely expensive after all).

We had things that my kids don't have. Like shop classes. We had wood shop, metal shop, electric shop, sewing, cooking. My kids have home economics, computer class, and a TV studio. I think the have a VT5 still.

I learned (well at least they tried to teach me) how to type on an antique non electric typewriter (no spellchecker or delete), making corrections was extremely difficult as liquid paper or whiteout was forbidden in the class. We had to maneuver these little pieces of special paper over the error and type the same letters over the error, and there was a error back a sentence or two, you might as well start over.

Penn State University (when I was there) had an experimental class in 3D graphics using Imagine. I liked it so much that I got my own copy but I ended up not being able to use it because none of the computers I had access to had math co-processors.

It would have been nice if I had access to information back then like we do today. It would have been much easier to make informed decisions about career choices. But there is no sense in complaining or laying blame. For my kids, I try to expose them to as many choices as I can. There are still lots of things I can't afford to have them do, which pains me more than I can say. But, they also know that If there is something that they are really interested in, I will bend over backwards to make it happen. I also have a mantra that I use with my kids, "If your going to do something, make it exceptional." Don't be satisfied with what is out there, if what you really want isn't there. If you want to do something find out how, if there is no information, figure it out yourself.

bazsa73
08-22-2013, 02:31 PM
haha! brilliant. AND true !

Hm, so true. Have a feeling we have seen it all.

JonW
08-22-2013, 02:42 PM
We had things that my kids don't have. Like shop classes. We had wood shop, metal shop, electric shop, sewing, cooking. My kids have home economics, computer class, and a TV studio. I think the have a VT5 still.

I did metalwork in high school. Throughout the year all we made was ashtrays of varying types. The teacher smoked continuously during the entire lesson dropping ash over our work. I did not take up smoking!


Not only have the lessons changed, students don't breath in smoke anymore, & not make products to encourage the take up of smoking!

sandman300
08-22-2013, 03:12 PM
Not only have the lessons changed, students don't breath in smoke anymore, & not make products to encourage the take up of smoking!

I built a 13 foot long Iditarod dog sled but I didn't take that up as a career. But that kind of practical hands on experience is something that kids don't get anymore.

JamesCurtis
08-22-2013, 09:00 PM
I'm 58 years old and have been doing 3d since 1991, but graphics in general since 1985. I got my degree in 1986 ( an Associates Degree at a Community College) which at that time had just started Computer Graphics courses. I learned most of my 3d at home. I didn't pay much for my training because I qualified for some grants and had help from a government retraining program as well.

shrox
08-22-2013, 10:08 PM
My two jobs have been artist or pizza delivery.

JonW
08-22-2013, 10:38 PM
My two jobs have been artist or pizza delivery.

Which work do you consider looks more like art!

PixelDust
08-23-2013, 08:19 AM
I did metalwork in high school. Throughout the year all we made was ashtrays of varying types. The teacher smoked continuously during the entire lesson dropping ash over our work. I did not take up smoking!

Me neither. Sounds like your teacher just wanted more ashtrays! :)