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Triodin
07-24-2013, 03:45 PM
Haters gonna hate.

Thanks for all the free upgrades over the last few years Lightwave 3D team!

Time to put my dollars towards the support of the software, development, and marketing that I like most!

I look forward to purchasing NevronMotion before the show special ends ;)

Spinland
07-24-2013, 03:46 PM
Heh. I'm with you. I bought it already, and I don't even have a Kinect yet. :)

wesleycorgi
07-24-2013, 03:50 PM
Heh. I'm with you. I bought it already, and I don't even have a Kinect yet. :)

I have two Kinects — been experimenting for the past two years with all the interesting open source stuff. I'm glad that LW now has support (well at least on the Windows side of things).

Spinland
07-24-2013, 03:52 PM
I have two Kinects — been experimenting for the past two years with all the interesting open source stuff. I'm glad that LW now has support (well at least on the Windows side of things).

I had a budget set for later in the year that involved buying iPi and two Kinects to use in BootCamp. Then I saw the rumblings of support coming to LW and canceled those plans until I saw what was what. Even if I still have to use BootCamp, I'm ahead several hundred dollars.

Triodin
07-24-2013, 03:57 PM
Spin - I've seen people link a bunch of mac options for the Kinect - you were seeing those yeah? I was in your shoes up until the beginning of this year when I switched back from Mac to PC, so I feel your pain!!

gordonrobb
07-24-2013, 04:08 PM
What free upgrades have there been? Do you mean point updates? (9.5-9.6 etc?)

realgray
07-24-2013, 04:13 PM
What free upgrades have there been? Do you mean point updates? (9.5-9.6 etc?)

11.5 was a substantial upgrade for free. My favorite feature was AE interop.

UnCommonGrafx
07-24-2013, 04:28 PM
On the way to get a Kinect.
This was my vote for mining program(s) as to what to put into LW (or exposed in a refined way): I bought in.

Gotta learn these names...

Spinland
07-24-2013, 04:36 PM
What free upgrades have there been? Do you mean point updates? (9.5-9.6 etc?)

Not to open old wounds but for me 10 was a free upgrade from 9.

Digital Hermit
07-24-2013, 06:53 PM
FYI - just got this from Erikais that NevronMotion only supports one Kinect device (ftm) But yeah, I am ordering it anyway and going to Frye's to get my Kinect.

Davewriter
07-24-2013, 08:08 PM
Yup... gonna be back at the show tomorrow just to play with it. Looking forward to talking with Dave about the face capture end of it. And looking forward to when Kinect 2 rolls out that there will be the option for using two Kinects giving us up to 6 actors.
Then all I have to do is come up with the way to divert my wife's attention long enough to slide over the credit card...

Verlon
07-24-2013, 10:38 PM
Has anyone confirmed this working with Mac yet? I do not see anything about system requirements beyond Microsoft Kinect. Since it is a USB device, it will plug into my trusty Mac. Is that all there is to it?

I would sure like to know before the sale price expires.

nickdigital
07-24-2013, 10:46 PM
I believe Nevron is pc only.

wesleycorgi
07-24-2013, 11:32 PM
The Kinect functionality is Win only and note: you must have Kinect for Windows (the documentation says Xbox 360 version works, but isn't directly supported). I have both. There are major differences between the two different Kinects (I think i read that you can only really do face and hand mocap via the Windows version). Unfortunately, the Windows sensor is about $150 more.

wesleycorgi
07-24-2013, 11:36 PM
I've tried with 360 sensor in LW Win Nevron on my Mac via Parallels and couldn't get it to work. I have to reclaim my Kinect for Windows from a work project to try again.

Note: LW does show the Xbox sensor in Virtual Studio; I just can't do anything with it.

CaptainMarlowe
07-24-2013, 11:49 PM
Nevronmotion is not PC only : it's just that it doesn't support kinect on Mac, but the retargetting stuff is supposed to work all right.
I would gladly pay for this plug-in, but the fact that Kinect won't work on Mac is annoying, not to say a showstopper. Pehraps it will at some point, but for the moment, I can't spare the cash for the plug-in. I think I'll buy Fastmocap, which does work with a Kinect (or Asus Xtion, but I don't know if it's better ?) on Mac, and import the bvh's in LW for a starter. I will then try to retarget them through Animeeple with FBX, if necessary. Then I'll retarget with Nevronmotion, if and when I have enough cash to spare for this...

Of course, the most urgent thing is to buy a new computer, as I fried my mother board when rendering my last short (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD4Nb6uhq38) (for which mocap would have been useful, BTW). Kinect, fastmocap or nevron will come later...

LW_Will
07-25-2013, 02:00 AM
I'd say, if you don't own one, I'd get the Kinect for PC, not the one for the xbox 360.

The sensor in the KPC are a bit upgraded, and it does have the close mode. The KPC also do not require the drivers that the K360 does... so it might work with Mac. Theoretically, anyway...

CaptainMarlowe
07-25-2013, 04:26 AM
May be worth a try, but not at the moment for me. Anyway, if things do not improve, I will stil have the option of fastmocap+nevron for retargeting. I'll consider this when I want to go seriously in mo-cap.
ATM, I have so much things to dive into, such as node compounds (wow !), raycasting and spline control in LW11.6...

sami
07-25-2013, 04:55 AM
The Kinect functionality is Win only and note: you must have Kinect for Windows (the documentation says Xbox 360 version works, but isn't directly supported). I have both. There are major differences between the two different Kinects (I think i read that you can only really do face and hand mocap via the Windows version). Unfortunately, the Windows sensor is about $150 more.

My understanding (and anecdotal experience with both devices) is that they are identical except for the windows one has a shorter cable (for better usb port power compatibility across a variety of pcs and usb ports - though you could always use a powered hub if you have issues with your laptop port) as well as differently initially loaded firmware enabling "near mode" features. This (http://www.imaginativeuniversal.com/blog/post/2012/02/14/Why-the-Kinect-for-Windows-Sensor-Costs-2424999.aspx)describes the differences. And Ive personally gotten an xbox one to work identically but if you want to be safe and don't want to mess with firmware then pay more and get the windows one...

the windows one also officially is licensed for commercial use in case the EULA matter to you ;)
Third party drivers like the PrimeSense ones work on both...

sami
07-25-2013, 05:14 AM
I'd say, if you don't own one, I'd get the Kinect for PC, not the one for the xbox 360.

The sensor in the KPC are a bit upgraded, and it does have the close mode. The KPC also do not require the drivers that the K360 does... so it might work with Mac. Theoretically, anyway...

I believe the sensor is identical and it is the shipped firmware which is different, enabling slightly better features for the Kinect for Windows than the Xbox one. You likely wouldn't notice the difference in tracking between the two. And although i cant confirm this, I'd guess that the 3rd party Kinect drivers for the mac might make it work with Nevronmotion though it cant officially be supported since they are not from MS.


More (obvious?) tips on better Kinect tracking:

close the drapes - avoid sunlight or additional infrared light casting on person being tracked. Reflections from windows or being backlit or any outdoor daylight from a window significantly degrades tracking
wear tight fitting non-shiny clothes - loose jeans are a no-no. Anything which doesn't easily show the silhouette of your knees and elbows will cause joint flipping - the legs are particularly subject to this.
mount the kinect high on a tripod and point it downwards to get as much of your full body as possible - lower leg tracking will work better like this
don't use 3rdparty zoom lenses for xbox on the Kinect - although they compress space and work better in tiny spaces if you don't have a 3m x 4m cone space in front of your device, their plastic lenses are poorly made with inferior optics and cause tracking errors
Tape out the Kinect's view cone/frustum on the floor with masking tape. This helps performer stay in tracking area and avoids retakes when limbs go wonky when hitting the view area limits

Cageman
07-25-2013, 06:03 AM
My LW-expenses (not counting plugins).

LW8.3.0 = $495 (educational version)
LW8.5.0 = Free

LW9.0.0 = Free
LW9.2.0 = Free
LW9.3.0 = Free
LW9.3.1 = Free
LW9.5.0 = Free
LW9.6.0 = Free
LW9.6.1 = Free

LW10.0.0 + CORE = $395 (this upgrade also made my educational version become Pro)
LW10.1.0 = Free

LW11.0.0 = $395
LW11.5.0 = Free
LW11.6.0 = Free

Total cost: $1285

This is less than a new seat of LW11.6, it is even less expensive than the Siggraph Special price, which is $1295!!! So, for anyone that have had a similar upgrade path that I've had, I feel quite spoiled and if I ever would need Nevron Motion, I will be happy to pay for it! Oh... and, from what I understand, since I was a dedicated early adopter of CORE, I'm locked into my $395 upgrade price for another 2 or 3 releases.

Just saying...

hrgiger
07-25-2013, 06:10 AM
My LW-expenses (not counting plugins).

LW8.3.0 = $495 (educational version)
LW8.5.0 = Free
LW9.0.0 = Free
LW9.2.0 = Free
LW9.3.0 = Free
LW9.3.1 = Free
LW9.5.0 = Free
LW9.6.0 = Free
LW9.6.1 = Free

LW10.0.0 + CORE = $395 (this upgrade also made my educational version become Pro)
LW10.1.0 = Free

LW11.0.0 = $395
LW11.5.0 = Free
LW11.6.0 = Free

Total cost: $1285

This is less than a new seat of LW11.6, it is even less expensive than the Siggraph Special price, which is $1295!!! So, for anyone that have had a similar upgrade path that I've had, I feel quite spoiled and if I ever would need Nevron Motion, I will be happy to pay for it! Oh... and, from what I understand, since I was a dedicated early adopter of CORE, I'm locked into my $395 upgrade price for another 2 or 3 releases.

Just saying...

You're locked into your upgrade price for 4 more releases. How was LightWave 9 a free release for you?

And I really dislike when people say "just saying..." We already know you are saying.

Just saying...

Cageman
07-25-2013, 06:14 AM
You're locked into your upgrade price for 4 more releases. How was LightWave 9 a free release for you?

When I purchased LW8.3, it included a free update to LW9.x series.

hrgiger
07-25-2013, 06:18 AM
Hmm, its been a long time ago, I don't remember. I upgraded from 7 so I probably wouldn't have even noticed that deal.

Lewis
07-25-2013, 06:19 AM
When I purchased LW8.3, it included a free update to LW9.x series.


That doesn't mean 9.0 was free 'coz it wasn't. You just got it in at some special deal (good for you) when they offered that but 9.0 was payed upgrade also 395$.

Just saying :D

EDIT: Good to see few people happy with Nevron, nice, post up some videos guys when you have time, cheers.

Cageman
07-25-2013, 06:23 AM
That doesn't mean 9.0 was free 'coz it wasn't. You just got it in at some special deal (good for you) when they offered that but 9.0 was payed upgrade also 395$.

Just saying :D.

That is quite obvious that it was a paid upgrade, doh! But not for me, I got a special offer. I'm just listing the total amount of money that I've paid Newtek/LW3DG so far.

hrgiger
07-25-2013, 06:29 AM
Just saying :D



Stole my joke.

Verlon
07-25-2013, 07:14 AM
Well if fastmocap works with Kinect on Mac, for $199 for the pro version, it seems reasonable to expect this of Nevronmotion. Since I happen to have a Kinect, I wouldn't mind playing with this.

So far, however, it would seem the answer is no, and I am not going to pay to see if I can get it to work. And ALL of this should be on the product page.

jasonwestmas
07-25-2013, 07:42 AM
When I purchased LW8.3, it included a free update to LW9.x series.

Yup, when I bought the LW 8.5 Plus LW Cad upgrade I got the whole 9.x series free lol. Just saying. But of course I bought into LW8 very late so I guess I kinda just skipped it.

gordonrobb
07-25-2013, 09:14 AM
Well as someone who has had LW since 7.5 every major upgrade (7.x to 8.x, 8.x to 9.x etc) has been paid, and the point upgrades, have been free (which is what I would expect). Zbrush, on the other hand, has never charged me for an upgrade and it is a fundamentally different package, with incredibly improved tools, from 3.1 to 4.6. The issue isn't whether upgrades are free, the issue is whether they have anything beneficial. Modeller, whilst it has some better tools now, is still ostensibly the same as it was in 7.5 I'm afraid.

- - - Updated - - -

Oooh, I forgot - Just saying! :)

jasonwestmas
07-25-2013, 09:16 AM
Well as someone who has had LW since 7.5 every major upgrade (7.x to 8.x, 8.x to 9.x etc) has been paid, and the point upgrades, have been free (which is what I would expect). Zbrush, on the other hand, has never charged me for an upgrade and it is a fundamentally different package, with incredibly improved tools, from 3.1 to 4.6. The issue isn't whether upgrades are free, the issue is whether they have anything beneficial. Modeller, whilst it has some better tools now, is still ostensibly the same as it was in 7.5 I'm afraid.

- - - Updated - - -

Oooh, I forgot - Just saying! :)

Yes, just saying that I got pretty tired of waiting for some features. The wanted features list is slowly being fulfilled. :D

Verlon
07-25-2013, 09:19 AM
Just think, if you had Modeler 6.0, you still wouldn't see much difference. That was the last major upgrade as far as I can tell, despite assurances that each new release would finally address this.

I feel like an old-timer: "I've been using Lightwave so long I remember when Modeler was the good part. IT was even the reason people bought the program."

dwburman
07-25-2013, 11:19 AM
Let's see.

LW 5.6 + HyperVoxels and Nature Shaders plugins + Aura 1.0 graphics bundle: $2,400?
LW 6.0: free with LW 5.6 purchase
LW 7.0: paid
LW 8.0: paid
LW 9.0: paid
HC/LW 10: paid
LW 11: paid

I don't know, I may have gotten a free LW ordinal upgrade in there at some point too.

Along the way I also got from NewTek:
A new license of Aura 2.0/2.5 (rather than upgrading the Aura 1.0 license)
Vue Infinite 5
Eyeon DFX+ with a couple of modules
LWCAD 1.x plugin
some UV plugin

Verlon
07-25-2013, 03:18 PM
UVEdit. Yep, have that. Pretty much have the same set from 5.6 out, along with some Amiga flirtation prior to my purchase courtesy Toaster owning friends.

Still, would be nice if Nevronmotion worked as well on the Mac as it did PC (since FastMoCap seems to use Kinect and Mac just fine). If it does, it would be nice if the product page said so. If it doesn't, it would be nice if the product page said that as well.

In fact, let me call those crazy guys...

tonyrizo2003
07-26-2013, 12:19 AM
I'm buying it!

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 01:13 AM
I bought the plugin last night, but I don't have a Kinect yet. A couple of questions for those who do - Do I need to buy one with a psu or can I plug one in to the USB port? What drivers would I need to install if I got a 360 version?

Thanks

djlithium
07-26-2013, 01:44 AM
Hi Steve. The stand alone kinect that comes with the PSU has a special connection that transforms the normal weird assed USB connector to a standard USB connector. This is required to make it work. However pretty much all stand alone kinects have this that are priced at the 100+ USD mark. I just got back from Siggraph and played a lot with the nevron motion plug-in that Dave Vrba did a wonderful job of implementing and integrating its use with Virtual Studio Technology. I don't think it will be too long before coming hacks a "near view" version together than you can mount on a helmet and do mocap with it that way. You can always do the facial mocap as a second pass on your body mocap. The Kinect 1.7SDK is what makes this possible at the same time, but its probably easier to do it separately anyway. It's a fantastic technology combination that really works. Tutorials on this will be coming soon from L3D once I get some other things out of the way but we will be doing tutorials on Nevron, VST and ChronoSculpt right away here.

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 01:57 AM
Thanks Kat. Do I need any special drivers or is it just 'plug and play' as far as the LW plugin is concerned?

djlithium
07-26-2013, 02:08 AM
Thanks Kat. Do I need any special drivers or is it just 'plug and play' as far as the LW plugin is concerned?

Hey Steve. You should download the kinect SDK 1.7 package from the kinect site at microsoft. That's all you really need plus the nevronmotion goodies installed :) Remember its designed to work with Virtual Studio Tools for live mocap, so get familiar with that for sure.

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 06:08 AM
Great - thanks Kat!

lardbros
07-26-2013, 06:24 AM
Steve... you bought it? :) Haha!

As far as Kinect goes... it may be worth looking up the differences between the xbox one and the MS Windows one.

There are differences, and although I think they may simply be software differences, GreenLaw has a post somewhere in these forums that details the differences! :)

Have fun!

prometheus
07-26-2013, 08:11 AM
My LW-expenses (not counting plugins).

LW8.3.0 = $495 (educational version)
LW8.5.0 = Free

LW9.0.0 = Free
LW9.2.0 = Free
LW9.3.0 = Free
LW9.3.1 = Free
LW9.5.0 = Free
LW9.6.0 = Free
LW9.6.1 = Free

LW10.0.0 + CORE = $395 (this upgrade also made my educational version become Pro)
LW10.1.0 = Free

LW11.0.0 = $395
LW11.5.0 = Free
LW11.6.0 = Free

Total cost: $1285

This is less than a new seat of LW11.6, it is even less expensive than the Siggraph Special price, which is $1295!!! So, for anyone that have had a similar upgrade path that I've had, I feel quite spoiled and if I ever would need Nevron Motion, I will be happy to pay for it! Oh... and, from what I understand, since I was a dedicated early adopter of CORE, I'm locked into my $395 upgrade price for another 2 or 3 releases.

Just saying...

good to know..thanks.

Michael

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 01:07 PM
Steve... you bought it? :) Haha!

As far as Kinect goes... it may be worth looking up the differences between the xbox one and the MS Windows one.

There are differences, and although I think they may simply be software differences, GreenLaw has a post somewhere in these forums that details the differences! :)

Have fun!

Grabbed an xbox one this afternoon for 44. Its S/H and has 3 months warranty - cheap enough to give it a go. The Windows version is a lot more an none of those traded in at Game ;)

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 01:52 PM
Well I got everything installed and I can see the Kinect in the device manager, after enabling I get the Kinect window pop-up, but all I see is a white screen. For some reason the USB\VID_0409.... entry in the description remains stopped even with enable on. Any ideas?

115856

LW_Will
07-26-2013, 02:09 PM
you need to add the drivers from Microsoft to get the K360 working.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/overview.aspx

load those, and try again.

Still waiting on my copy of Nevron... ;-\

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 02:13 PM
you need to add the drivers from Microsoft to get the K360 working.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/overview.aspx

load those, and try again.

Still waiting on my copy of Nevron... ;-\

Mmm...I've got the newer 1.7SDK drivers installed as Kat suggested. They seem to be working ok. I'll re-boot and see what happens...

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 02:39 PM
Mmm...I've got the newer 1.7SDK drivers installed as Kat suggested. They seem to be working ok. I'll re-boot and see what happens...

A re-boot got it working, but it keeps dropping out for some reason...mmm

scratch33
07-26-2013, 02:42 PM
Well I got everything installed and I can see the Kinect in the device manager, after enabling I get the Kinect window pop-up, but all I see is a white screen. For some reason the USB\VID_0409.... entry in the description remains stopped even with enable on. Any ideas?

115856

Had the same problem here on a windows 8 computer installing kinect sdk 1.7+open ni 2,2+nite2.2
Then I have tryed on a windows 7 installing kinect sdk1.7+nite2.2 and it works fine on this computer. Don't know what's wrong.

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 02:44 PM
Had the same problem here on a windows 8 computer installing kinect sdk 1.7+open ni 2,2+nite2.2
Then I have tryed on a windows 7 installing kinect sdk1.7+nite2.2 and it works fine on this computer. Don't know what's wrong.

Seems to be buggy drivers. I'm on win 8 too - but a quick disable/enable in device manager has sparked it into life again.

scratch33
07-26-2013, 02:46 PM
you need to add the drivers from Microsoft to get the K360 working.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/overview.aspx

load those, and try again.

Still waiting on my copy of Nevron... ;-\

Strange, after process buying, you just go on your account, register new product, enter the serial you've got for nevron and choose the lightwave where to append it. Actualising your account, nevron must be there.

stevecullum
07-26-2013, 02:48 PM
Strange, after process buying, you just go on your account, register new product, enter the serial you've got for nevron and choose the lightwave where to append it. Actualising your account, nevron must be there.

I'll add it's right at the bottom of the product list - I missed it the first time

stevecullum
07-27-2013, 02:49 PM
...Tutorials on this will be coming soon from L3D once I get some other things out of the way but we will be doing tutorials on Nevron, VST and ChronoSculpt right away here..

Any chance you can hurry along with those tutorials? - I'm lost! :D

Would be useful to cover things like sorting out the silly sized BVH files and missing T-Poses etc...

UnCommonGrafx
07-27-2013, 03:02 PM
I've decided it's a bit too simple.

Whoo hoo!! Stopped to make sure I was Right!


Here's the how to: it is about the full name of the object.
Select one bone in the source material; click "GetSel" on a row. It doesn't matter which at this juncture.
Look at the name it puts it. Click on the name and cut the stuff it added. Cut because you want to paste that info in the text area to add a prefix or suffix.
Click Retarget.

A Retargeted Motion!

This is Brilliant.

djlithium
07-27-2013, 03:17 PM
you need to add the drivers from Microsoft to get the K360 working.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/overview.aspx

load those, and try again.

Still waiting on my copy of Nevron... ;-\

You definately want the 1.7 drivers for sure in the 1.7 SDK found here http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/developer-downloads.aspx

- - - Updated - - -

This could be a problem with your computers power saving settings. If the port goes to sleep the driver can stop working and its problematic to get it to come back to life without a reboot.

LW_Will
07-27-2013, 11:19 PM
You definately want the 1.7 drivers for sure in the 1.7 SDK found here http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/developer-downloads.aspx

- - - Updated - - -

This could be a problem with your computers power saving settings. If the port goes to sleep the driver can stop working and its problematic to get it to come back to life without a reboot.

Thank you Kat! Good catch on the computer going to sleep. Will watch for that one.

allabulle
07-28-2013, 02:36 AM
(...)
More (obvious?) tips on better Kinect tracking:

close the drapes - avoid sunlight or additional infrared light casting on person being tracked. Reflections from windows or being backlit or any outdoor daylight from a window significantly degrades tracking
wear tight fitting non-shiny clothes - loose jeans are a no-no. Anything which doesn't easily show the silhouette of your knees and elbows will cause joint flipping - the legs are particularly subject to this.
mount the kinect high on a tripod and point it downwards to get as much of your full body as possible - lower leg tracking will work better like this
don't use 3rdparty zoom lenses for xbox on the Kinect - although they compress space and work better in tiny spaces if you don't have a 3m x 4m cone space in front of your device, their plastic lenses are poorly made with inferior optics and cause tracking errors
Tape out the Kinect's view cone/frustum on the floor with masking tape. This helps performer stay in tracking area and avoids retakes when limbs go wonky when hitting the view area limits


Thanks for the tips!