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tcoursey
07-23-2013, 09:38 AM
I know it was just announced (released but not discussed yet) Does anyone know if the Kinect Motion Capture will work with the new Kinect in XBOX One. The new kinect has much more fidelity and many new features...1080p 60fps sees in dark many more...

Would be curious if the new Nevron will be able to use any of that "better data" or if the drivers are different and the SDK/API would have changed....

Hope it's all compatible! LW3DG anyone comment yet?

khan973
07-23-2013, 10:03 AM
I don't know, but I know I got it to work with my older XBOX360 Kinect so it should be.
Has anyone purchased it yet?

I'm stuck, it recognizes everything but I can't seem to make the skeleton move.
The manual lokks like a late overnight manual, not much infos :)

So I don't know for now.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is tha screenshot.
just in case you're wondering, yes I'm a Barong...

khan973
07-23-2013, 11:13 AM
Now that I can retarget and use correctly BVH and FBX, is there a way to use multiple animations and mix them?
This is a must have ;)

Phil
07-23-2013, 12:38 PM
Now that I can retarget and use correctly BVH and FBX, is there a way to use multiple animations and mix them?
This is a must have ;)

Motion Mixer? That's an area of LW that I've very rarely used, but am beginning to take a look at again.

LW_Will
07-23-2013, 02:16 PM
Motion Mixer?

Ryan Roye
07-23-2013, 02:27 PM
Motion Mixer?

What motion mixer can do:

-Mix animations via weighting
-Save/load animations
-Offset animation (IE: make coordinates be derived from other motions)

It can't do:

-Re-targeting
-Channel editing (in any meaningful capacity due to lack of multi-select editing)

NOTE that you can get around motion mixer's channel editing weakness by utilizing Map motion 2 and HMOT saver... it is not optimal, but it works.

IKBooster can do the equivalent of re-targeting, just that the motions need to be baked (you can control the density of the keyframes though).

tcoursey
07-23-2013, 02:36 PM
I don't know, but I know I got it to work with my older XBOX360 Kinect so it should be.
Has anyone purchased it yet?

I'm stuck, it recognizes everything but I can't seem to make the skeleton move.
The manual lokks like a late overnight manual, not much infos :)

So I don't know for now.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is tha screenshot.
just in case you're wondering, yes I'm a Barong...

Did you get your skeleton moving? I just watched the demo from sig and didn't see anything wierd/tricky, other than what your showing. I bought it and am about at the same spot you are. I know you have to click ACTIVE on the studio panel, but when I do that makes my skel all wonky and not moving with my kinect skel.

Let me know what you find out...yes the manual is really just how to install! Pre-Release ver here... :)

khan973
07-23-2013, 03:22 PM
Tcoursey, you have to rename your Kinect Kinect_A then you're good to go :)
Let me know if it works for you.

digitaldoc
07-23-2013, 03:27 PM
Motion Mixer used to be very screwy when you opened a file again, what it did best was freeze objects and bones so that you couldn't keyframe them and the save/load feature only worked sometimes.

tcoursey
07-24-2013, 08:38 AM
Tcoursey, you have to rename your Kinect Kinect_A then you're good to go :)
Let me know if it works for you.

Got it! Thanks. Seems that should be automatic, maybe in an update soon.

Have you figured out how to retarget?

A workflow I would like to figure out is take a Genoma rig, attach it to my character, then bring in BVH files or FBX motions and retarget to my character. I know it's possible, just need some more time in here....any tips? I'm not much of a character guy...ArchViz.

khan973
07-24-2013, 11:16 AM
Yes, to retarget, open the Nevron character's scene.
Import the Kinect one. Fit them so they match, choose Kinect's preset in Nevron, retarget and you can have fun.

Eagle66
07-24-2013, 11:47 AM
How long is the NevronMotion SIGGRAPH Show Special price available?

khan973
07-24-2013, 12:36 PM
Until Siggraph I believe

jeremydk
07-24-2013, 12:47 PM
I was under the impression that Nevron Motion was a part of the 11.6 upgrade and free to registered users. I just got my Kinect now but realise i have to put down 200$ to get it as a plugin.
Is this correct ?

Jeremy

Spinland
07-24-2013, 12:51 PM
I was under the impression that Nevron Motion was a part of the 11.6 upgrade and free to registered users. I just got my Kinect now but realise i have to put down 200$ to get it as a plugin.
Is this correct ?

Jeremy

Yes, it is correct until after Siggraph, at which time the cost becomes $299.

tcoursey
07-24-2013, 02:13 PM
I guess it's a shame that Kinect was promised in 11.5 and is an add-on in 11.6 but for those that truly want to do this, this is a fair price. We purchased Jimmy Rig, looked at iClone, Kinect Brickel and others. $199 was an easy choice to have NATIVE support directly inside LW. Looking forward to begin playing more with it.

Spinland
07-24-2013, 03:53 PM
I guess it's a shame that Kinect was promised in 11.5 and is an add-on in 11.6 but for those that truly want to do this, this is a fair price. We purchased Jimmy Rig, looked at iClone, Kinect Brickel and others. $199 was an easy choice to have NATIVE support directly inside LW. Looking forward to begin playing more with it.

Agreed. I confess I also expected this to become part of the 11.x release schedule without extra cost, but am willing to accept I merely read too much into the presentations. For the cost, compared to $600 to get iPi, I was willing to buy this right now even though I haven't yet purchased a Kinect device and currently do not have need for mocap. The mere fact I expect I shall need it before long, coupled with this intro price, was too compelling to pass up.

UnCommonGrafx
07-24-2013, 05:34 PM
I look at this as having access to MB and all that entails.
There is no way this is NOT as cool.

My wife and I were marked up and fbx'ed one year at SIGGRAPH. First time I can play with it in lw, without limitation.

I am stoked. These two programs are worth $1k, each, if they were from other entities. Now, they just need API's.

Kudos, Lightwave 3D Group of Newtek!

ernesttx
07-24-2013, 06:52 PM
Hello all. Brand new Lightwave user here. Liked what I say at Siggraph and bought the whole bundle - Lightwave 11.6, ChronoSculpt and Nevron. Right now, I'm having an issue with trying to get the Nevron system working. So, I have a few questions.

1. I'm not quite sure about installing the Nevron folder into the plugins folder. So, I unzipped the Nevron file and was getting some windows messages asking me if I wanted to proceed with unzipping to non encrypted files. Odd, I thought, but clicked Yes. So, now I have a folder (nevronmotion_1-0_win64_20130722) and it contains a _MACOSX folder and a NevronMotion_Win64 folder. OK, I'm guessing. So, in the Win64 folder, I have a bin folder, and a few files (Kinect_Skeleton.lws, Nevron_Skeleton.lws, a EULA and a Readme file). And in the bin folder are some .p files and .dll files.

2. So, the Nevron instructions state to move this folder (I'm assuming its the main folder containing everything) to <user>/.Newtek/Lightwave/11.6/plugins. So, I go there and I don't have a plugins folder; so I create one and drop the main folder in there.

3. Question: Is that correct? Or should I have just dropped the bin folder there? Or should I have dropped the files from the bin folder there?

4. The instructions state I could using the Edit plugins menu and Add the plugins (the .p files). When I do that, it finds the 3 .p files, but, what about the .dll files? This is assuming I didn't move the main folder to the <user> link as above.

5. I have tried both methods, and in Lightwave, I can add the Nevron Motion via Master Plugins. Via Device Manager, I can see my Kinect and able to Enable it. I have tried to rename the Kinect to Kinect_A; as well as leave the default name. I can enable the Kinect. However, the Status always indicates "Stopped". I can click open under Settings and the Kinect window comes up; but, it just shows a blank white screen where the incoming video should be.

6. I have installed the Microsoft Kinect 1.7 drivers. I am using an XBOX 360 Kinect and not a Kinect for Windows; however, the instructions and MS Kinect page states the XBOX 360 is usable. I have the A/C plug for the Kinect and it powers up when I plug it into the USB port, however, the green light on the front is just flashing. Is this normal? I'm thinking not. I have not used this Kinect for anything before and I bought it brand new from major outlet.

My guess, is that I did not install the Nevron folder correctly. I see that someone else is using the XBox 360 and it is working.

Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to using Lightwave and making some great animations. Thank you if you read through all of this. :)

khan973
07-24-2013, 08:27 PM
Ernettx, I suggest you to install the Kinect SDK instead.
Follow these steps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5uTH3S9P9g

Once it's done, you're sure there is no driver issue.

To install the plugin, go wherever you've installed it and select the .p files.
After that, you have to Enable your Kinect, so tick Enable on the device Manager and you should be fine.

To see if you have Nevron installed correctly, open the scene and click on the Nevron button after you've added it in the Menu.
You should see the retargetting panel

ernesttx
07-24-2013, 08:48 PM
Thanks Khan973 I'll give that a try and I'll report back. Appreciate it greatly

ernesttx
07-24-2013, 08:56 PM
Should I uninstall the Kinect 1.7 drivers?

khan973
07-24-2013, 08:58 PM
I think you should. Try with the latest SDK which is 1.7 too I believe.
I haven't tried the main drivers as they say in the Manual that the XB360 version wouldn't work with these drivers.

ernesttx
07-24-2013, 09:35 PM
Kewl ok that works. I can see the incoming camera video now. I load the Kinect skeleton and am able to move it around. So, how to I record now in Studio? I have Active, Live and Allow Rec activated. What is the magic button? Sorry, I will open the manual this weekend, but right now I would love to record a motion capture. (After all it is Christmas morning and you helped me open my new presents hehe)

Davewriter
07-24-2013, 09:38 PM
Correct... you do need to get the seperate Nevron Motion and use it as a plugin

jeremydk
07-24-2013, 11:52 PM
I'm sorry for being a little cautious here but has anyone successfully made a full-body motion capture with Nevron Motion and one Kinect ?

The video on Nevron is not really selling it and the net is void of......anything regarding Nevron Motion.

wesleycorgi
07-25-2013, 12:51 AM
Kewl ok that works. I can see the incoming camera video now. I load the Kinect skeleton and am able to move it around. So, how to I record now in Studio? I have Active, Live and Allow Rec activated. What is the magic button? Sorry, I will open the manual this weekend, but right now I would love to record a motion capture. (After all it is Christmas morning and you helped me open my new presents hehe)

The manual doesn't give much more detail (yet). Take a look at the ustream videos from Siggraph with Lino and Dave; they kind of go step by step.

jeremydk
07-25-2013, 01:12 AM
That Ustream recording is totally awesome. Why not put something like that in the sales Nevron teaser ?

scratch33
07-25-2013, 02:08 AM
Hi Khan,

Are you using an xbox360 kinect?

Merci beaucoup.

geo_n
07-25-2013, 02:21 AM
Since this will not be included in lw in the future. Does this mean every lw version will need to have an updated paid version of neveronlw? :D

LW_Will
07-25-2013, 03:16 AM
How long is the NevronMotion SIGGRAPH Show Special price available?

July 31st. As the product announcement stated.

jeremydk
07-25-2013, 03:21 AM
TIP: if you get your hands on a bundled Kinect you will need a usb powersupply. amazon/ebay can help.

khan973
07-25-2013, 05:11 AM
Hi guys, yes, I do have a XBOX 360 Kinect.
You can record a full body motion, yes.
You have to be in "LIVE", choose the right FPS and hit play while recording your take. You can make multiple takes and choose the best one.
You should avoid direct light to the kinect and sun light too.
I have had best results pointing a light toward me. The results are drastically better.
I'll look up on the internet if there are "best practices" for kinect capturing.

geo_n
07-25-2013, 05:17 AM
Have you tried to turn around? Problem with single kinects is occlusion.
I have two kinect sensors for the xbox 360 used for Ipisoft which captures more complex motions. Hopefully neveronlw will support 2 kinects in the future.

Kuzey
07-25-2013, 06:05 AM
I just noticed that the captured motion is reversed like a mirror image, move you left arm & the right arm on the character moves....is there an option to mirror it back to normal?

scratch33
07-25-2013, 08:14 AM
+1 Kuzey

Thanks khan. I can proced buying it now.
I use ipisoft with 4 cam or 2 kinects. But I think Nevron motion make sense to do retargeting, near mocap, facial mocap.
I can do larger movements with ipisoft and playstation cam then import in lightwave with Nevron.
Hope they support soon 2 kinects. Necessary to really do motion capture.

tcoursey
07-25-2013, 03:05 PM
I just noticed that the captured motion is reversed like a mirror image, move you left arm & the right arm on the character moves....is there an option to mirror it back to normal?

Yes, open up Virtual Studio Device Manager. Click on the OPEN text under settings column. That will bring up what the kinect sees. In there, there are lot's of options. I have to admit it's a clunky way to get into such a great set of controls, but they are there once you get there. One option is MIRROR. Others include smoothing, good for making the skeleton not jump around quite so much (jitter).

I'm sure the plugin will continue to get better and better.

tcoursey
07-25-2013, 03:21 PM
I need help! I'm sure others do too. But I'm sure some have figured it all out as well.

I have the Nevron Skeleton synced up and getting motions from my Kinect! I am able to get a TAKE that I can scrub via my timeline. However what do I need to do to get that targeted on another character? I have tried to BAKE the bones. It says I don't have an FBX_LW_Rig. Where shall I get one of those? I am not a rigger, I have a 3D person geometry that I have used Genoma to RIG up. The skeleton's are not the same, even if I choose the Motion Capture Rig in Genoma.

Any guidance to help me would be appreciated! Can't wait for a manual. :)

Megalodon2.0
07-25-2013, 03:29 PM
I haven't looked into this at all yet, but perhaps someone here can answer the question.

I don't intend to do the Kinect route since we've already got an Optitrack setup. Will Nevron Motion work with any motion capture?

CaptainMarlowe
07-25-2013, 03:33 PM
As I understand the info page of LW3DG website, it will work with any fbx/bvh file.

Megalodon2.0
07-25-2013, 03:38 PM
As I understand the info page of LW3DG website, it will work with any fbx/bvh file.

Thanks. I should have checked that out first. :)

Kuzey
07-25-2013, 04:02 PM
Yes, open up Virtual Studio Device Manager. Click on the OPEN text under settings column. That will bring up what the kinect sees. In there, there are lot's of options. I have to admit it's a clunky way to get into such a great set of controls, but they are there once you get there. One option is MIRROR. Others include smoothing, good for making the skeleton not jump around quite so much (jitter).

I'm sure the plugin will continue to get better and better.

I don't have LW11+...is this "Virtual Studio Device Manager" inside Nevron or LW. Either way, I'm surprised no one noticed during the live demos :)

Yes it'll get better, once they make it a stand alone app. Use Nevron to capture motion/animate & then edit results in Chronosculpt without being tied to a major 3d app...lots of potential there :)

tcoursey
07-25-2013, 04:41 PM
I haven't looked into this at all yet, but perhaps someone here can answer the question.

I don't intend to do the Kinect route since we've already got an Optitrack setup. Will Nevron Motion work with any motion capture?

you could think of Nevron (as I understand the current scope) as a RETARGETING plugin as well as KINECT Motion Capture. I don't think it does much past that. But yes as mentioned it can work with FBX and BVH files to retarget. There may be more coming, but that's all I know of...it is a pre-release version....

- - - Updated - - -


I don't have LW11+...is this "Virtual Studio Device Manager" inside Nevron or LW. Either way, I'm surprised no one noticed during the live demos :)

Yes it'll get better, once they make it a stand alone app. Use Nevron to capture motion/animate & then edit results in Chronosculpt without being tied to a major 3d app...lots of potential there :)

I can't remember when the Studio came into excistence, but I believe 11+ is all you need. It may be 11.5+ If you have 11.5 you need to download 11.6 as it's the latest and FREE. Good luck.

tcoursey
07-25-2013, 04:47 PM
Have you tried to turn around? Problem with single kinects is occlusion.
I have two kinect sensors for the xbox 360 used for Ipisoft which captures more complex motions. Hopefully neveronlw will support 2 kinects in the future.
Yes turning around is a problem. I saw in the demo Lino talking about the limitations, so the guest spun around, lino said...no, don't show the limitations! lol.

I don't think it's a problem with the Kinect necessarily, but the software translation. I think there are other products that use ONE kinect that allow you to turn around and keep track. I believe Jimmy Rig does, Brickel Kinect and maybe others. Hopefully there will be more features and more robust software/backend with Nevron soon in an update.

H_Molla
07-25-2013, 05:31 PM
I just bought my Nevron license, After checking the PDF i found that :

" To use a Kinect device, you will also need to install the Kinectruntime driver (Kinectruntime-v1 .7- Setup .exe) . This is available via microSoft, but will be provided with this product eventually . With this driver, you must use a Kinect For Windows device and not the XBox360 Kinect device . (The Kinect For Windows SDK does allow use of the XBox360 Kinect device; but you must obtain that device on your own .)"

I don't understand ???
Dose it mean i will not be able to run my XBOX one !!!
If that is the scenario, then i want back my money back...cause:

1st nothing mentioned that on the product requirements.
2nd I bought my copy for that XBOX camera usage & am not going to buy another camera !!!.

Can someone explain please...
Thanks

scratch33
07-25-2013, 06:43 PM
Hi,

I still have a little doubt... has the xbox kinect the same specification of the windows kinect? same accuracy? same result in mocap of a body or more important, for face mocap?

Thank you

Francesco

Philbert
07-25-2013, 07:15 PM
I don't have Nevron yet so i can't answer exactly but I have done mocap with my xbox Kinect and the motion was a little jittery but over all pretty smooth and I used it on a project with no complaints from the client.

tcoursey
07-25-2013, 08:02 PM
I don't have Nevron yet so i can't answer exactly but I have done mocap with my xbox Kinect and the motion was a little jittery but over all pretty smooth and I used it on a project with no complaints from the client.

I know from what I've seen at Siggraph (the videos LW3DG is showing) the capture is good. Decent, maybe not great, but certainly good enough for much work that some would need. As for the jittery, the LW Plugin Nevron Motion has a smoothing option. You can select a few options of intensity. This helps a lot.

Also, the new XBOX 1 Kinect has MUCH IMPROVED fidelity. 1080P 60FPS to begin with. From what I saw the software that the Kinect has built in (hopefully not just the xbox itself) sends out much improved data to work with. I'm not sure if the NM plugin works with the Xbox 1 Kinect. But if it's plug and play and the kinect sends NM better skeleton movement, then that will help a lot too.

Think of NM as a retargeting app with "support" for Kinect. Thats almost exactly what they have coined it in the marketing. It's more the ability to retarget within LW instead of Motion Builder or other, with option to do Kinect MoCap.

I have not tried it but the demos are promising, NM does Face recognition/mocap. It's pretty decent too. I think this is specific to NM not kinect software/camera. Cudos to the team for that add-on!

Philbert
07-25-2013, 08:20 PM
Yes the xbox One Kinect has much higher resolution but as I understand it that one does not work with Windows, only the xbox One.

tcoursey
07-25-2013, 09:32 PM
Yes the xbox One Kinect has much higher resolution but as I understand it that one does not work with Windows, only the xbox One.

oh man that's terrible news. Is it a Microsoft annoucement or speculation? I wonder if there will be a hack of it possibly. Dang, that was going to be a good upgrade I thought.

Philbert
07-25-2013, 09:47 PM
oh man that's terrible news. Is it a Microsoft annoucement or speculation? I wonder if there will be a hack of it possibly. Dang, that was going to be a good upgrade I thought.

Microsoft confirmed you will have to get the new Kinect For Windows and the one for xbox One will not work for PCs. Maybe someone will make a cheap adapter for it.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-kinect-for-xbox-one-will-not-work-on-pcs/

geo_n
07-25-2013, 10:44 PM
Hi,

I still have a little doubt... has the xbox kinect the same specification of the windows kinect? same accuracy? same result in mocap of a body or more important, for face mocap?

Thank you

Francesco

xbox360 has lower spec than window kinect.
For facial mocap I think its required to use windows kinect from what I heard from Brekel.

geo_n
07-25-2013, 11:46 PM
Yes turning around is a problem. I saw in the demo Lino talking about the limitations, so the guest spun around, lino said...no, don't show the limitations! lol.

I don't think it's a problem with the Kinect necessarily, but the software translation. I think there are other products that use ONE kinect that allow you to turn around and keep track. I believe Jimmy Rig does, Brickel Kinect and maybe others. Hopefully there will be more features and more robust software/backend with Nevron soon in an update.

Would like to see some good examples of the output of this plugin from users before I bite the bullet. I'm interested because of the real time nature compared to Ipisoft which we have and used in real projects with 4 ps cams or dual kinects.
I personally don't want to be an early adapter again after so many software purchases(Jimmyrig, etc) that went no where.

m.d.
07-26-2013, 01:27 AM
I wouldn't expect much different then jimmyrig, Brekel ect....
They are all using the kinect for windows sdk....and are limited by what that can do....

They can modify the data....smoothing ect...but the actual skeletal tracking is Microsoft tech (20 bones, and 6 morph targets, and no finger tracking AFAIK)

There are quite a few other libraries that can extend the functionality....but the native sdk only goes so far

The good thing is Microsoft is constantly working on the SDK and will likely have increased capabilities when the new kinect is released

jeremydk
07-26-2013, 02:46 AM
It's just a toy now. But i expect it to grow better than what is out there now, ipI, Jimmyrig. I expect lifetime free upgrades for my 199$ :) Iīm pretty sure this is rushed through on the account of Siggraph. Hence the lack of documentation. I believe an upgrade is near :)
If they made support for PSeye i'm sure Newtek would snatch ipi customers. Ipi is great but takes time and effort in use.

djlithium
07-26-2013, 02:52 AM
It will work with practically any motioncapture data set out there in BVH/FBX. The way they designed it is really nifty. As for other direct support for other mocap systems live... I can't comment.

- - - Updated - - -

You do understand however that this is fully live support, Ipi is not live mocap, you have to post process the captured video to make it work. 1 kinect, 2 kinects or PSEyes, its not real time.

Greenlaw
07-26-2013, 03:43 AM
I still have a little doubt... has the xbox kinect the same specification of the windows kinect? same accuracy? same result in mocap of a body or more important, for face mocap?

If you're asking about the difference between Kinect for XBox and Kinect for Windows, there are a few, and depending on your needs and interests, they can be significant.

1. Only Kinect for Windows is officially supported by Microsoft for use with Windows. This means the official Microsoft Kinect SDK may drop support for Kinect for XBox at any time, and you will have to depend on third party drivers. This also means that the warranty does not cover any damage that may come from using Kinect for XBox with a PC--IMO, damage is unlikely to happen but users should still be aware of it. (That said, so far I've had one Kinect for XBox mysteriously die on me.)

2. Kinect for Windows has more controls for image quality. For me, this is important in iPi Mocap Studio because I use both the depth and the RGB video stream, and I like to record under low light at night. With Kinect for XBox, the rgb video quality is too dark under this condition but with Kinect for Windows, everything is perfectly visible in the data because of the auto gain option. With Kinect for Windows, you can also manually override image quality controls, which is useful if you need to match the image quality between multiple Kinect devices.

3. Kinect for Windows has Near Mode, which is useful for face capture and for scanning small 'tabletop' objects.

Alternatively, you might look into Carmine 1.08 and 1.09. Carmine can record higher quality data, meaning it's a lot less noisy than Kinect data. The downside is that you may need to buy both versions if you need both wide and near mode recording. (I think 1.08 is the wide or full body version, and 1.09 is for near recording.) I'm told that the drivers are not as nice as Microsoft's drivers, though I'm not sure what that means exactly. (I don't own a Carmine device.) A single Carmine device costs about the same as Kinect for Windows unless, of course, you have a need for both models.

I don't know if Carmine is compatible with Nevron though, only that it works with iPi Mocap Studio 2 and ReconstructMe.

The new Kinect One doesn't work with Windows at all, so it shouldn't be a consideration right now. There will be a Windows version in the future but that may be year or more from now. FWIW, the engineers at iPi Soft sound skeptical that Kinect One will make much quality difference with their software compared to data captured using Kinect for Windows or Carmine--I'm told the higher resolution won't necessarily produce more accurate data, and it will certainly demand significantly higher bandwidth requirements. (iPi Mocap Studio uses two Kinects and three to four PS3 Move devices simultaneously, which is a lot of data if you're capturing depth, RGB video, and sound from the two Kinect devices and rotational data from each PS Move controller.) To clarify the resolution issue, when it comes to mocap data, framerate is more important than image resolution or compression.

G.

Kuzey
07-26-2013, 03:54 AM
I can't remember when the Studio came into excistence, but I believe 11+ is all you need. It may be 11.5+ If you have 11.5 you need to download 11.6 as it's the latest and FREE. Good luck.


So the reverse image in Nevron Motion would be a bug then..I hope they fix it so the motion capture stuff isn't mirrored.

Especially, if they are planing on making it a standalone app to take full advantage of all the possibilities...wink..wink NT :)

btw...Team LWgroup, great work on all fronts!!

scratch33
07-26-2013, 04:09 AM
Thank you greenlaw for the very detailed explanation. Very usefull.

I have 2 xbox kinect with ipisoft and for my use, it works well. For much large or complex animation I prefer to use the playstation cams.

Now it is important to me to know if I can use the xbox kinect to do face mocap or if it is necessary to have the near mode.

someone tried?
or can newtek staff confirm or not that we can do face mocap with a xbox kinect?

Thank you

Francesco

scratch33
07-26-2013, 09:52 AM
Ok, Finally I have buyed it.

But I have a little issue. I have installed the drivers with the khan tutorial (thanks).
When I try to test it, nite2 works after 2 minutes waiting... the other one works with a frame rate of 1 image/minutes ... And in lightwave don't works, no picture in the kinect preview, no mocap.
This is in windows 8 system.

I have tryed in a windows 7 machine, Installing only nite2 and it works perfectly.

Khan, do you use windows 8?


p.s. : facial mocap works with xb360 kinect...

khan973
07-26-2013, 11:28 AM
I use Win 7 at Work so I can't say if it's normal or not.
I'm longing to get their setup / Scene with facial mocap

Philbert
07-26-2013, 12:28 PM
Here's a fun fact for those who don't know. It seems nevron is a spelling of neuron in at least Norwegian and Swedish.

lino.grandi
07-26-2013, 06:32 PM
Please guys, be patient....I'm flying back to Rome, then some cool content for Nevron will be coming!

UnCommonGrafx
07-26-2013, 06:37 PM
I really wanna know how to pair an fbx file with anything else.

Edit: I bet the oranges are in full bloom. Rome was beautiful in the winter; gotta get there for a summer. Enjoy your time home.

snsmoore
07-26-2013, 06:55 PM
Please guys, be patient....I'm flying back to Rome, then some cool content for Nevron will be coming!


That will be great! I already purchased Nevron and am going to install it tonight or tomorrow!

Is there any way you can provide an example of using a non-standard biped character, like "the cube" from the 11.5 documentation?

Greenlaw
07-26-2013, 07:32 PM
Please guys, be patient....I'm flying back to Rome, then some cool content for Nevron will be coming!

Have a good flight Lino. Looking forward to playing with the new content. :)

wesleycorgi
07-26-2013, 09:29 PM
Good news: got the Xbox Kinect to work fairly easily on a Win 8 laptop. You just need to use the Kinect SDK 1.7 and not OpenNiTE and NiTE (these are not necessary because this is basically the open source way to use Mocap Kinect apps, but LW does not support these drivers).

Bad news: I've been struggling to get the XBox Kinect to work over the past 3 days using my MacBook Pro via Parallels. This is when I gave up and tried my daughters Win laptop (without a hitch as noted above). After a bit of googling, I found that XBox Kinect doesn't work in VM but Windows Kinect does (up until Kinect SDK 1.6, VM wasn't supported for Windows Kinect either). So it is a limitation that apparently Microsoft has imposed (those who know anything about the virtualization wars, Microsoft doesn't like vm's because they see it as a way of circumventing selling licenses of Windows). So no Nevron using XBox Kinect via Parallels, but I'm sure Bootcamp is fine (since a bootcamped Mac is basically a Wintel machine). None of my Macs are bootcamped right now, so I can't try. Still trying to get my Windows Kinect back to try out via Parallels.

CaptainMarlowe
07-27-2013, 01:00 AM
well, since buying a windows licence is the same price as buying a fastmocap licence that works natively in Mac OSX, I think that when I'm buying Nevron (note I didn't say if...), I'll go with fastmocap/kinect (or asus xtion) for mocap sessions, and neuron for retargeting. The overall price would be the same, without the bootcamp hassle.

allabulle
07-27-2013, 01:25 AM
Please guys, be patient....I'm flying back to Rome, then some cool content for Nevron will be coming!

Then fly faster!

Have a safe trip home, Lino. :)

CaptainMarlowe
07-27-2013, 01:35 AM
How geek can you get...
Just placed my Nevron Motion order, to benefit from the special price. I needed a retargetting solution. I'll see after if I buy fastmocap or not to use with a Kinect.

scratch33
07-27-2013, 06:26 AM
Good news Lino. Please, can we have facial rig and the bounce?

Thank you

Francesco

scratch33
07-27-2013, 06:29 AM
Good news: got the Xbox Kinect to work fairly easily on a Win 8 laptop. You just need to use the Kinect SDK 1.7 and not OpenNiTE and NiTE (these are not necessary because this is basically the open source way to use Mocap Kinect apps, but LW does not support these drivers).

Bad news: I've been struggling to get the XBox Kinect to work over the past 3 days using my MacBook Pro via Parallels. This is when I gave up and tried my daughters Win laptop (without a hitch as noted above). After a bit of googling, I found that XBox Kinect doesn't work in VM but Windows Kinect does (up until Kinect SDK 1.6, VM wasn't supported for Windows Kinect either). So it is a limitation that apparently Microsoft has imposed (those who know anything about the virtualization wars, Microsoft doesn't like vm's because they see it as a way of circumventing selling licenses of Windows). So no Nevron using XBox Kinect via Parallels, but I'm sure Bootcamp is fine (since a bootcamped Mac is basically a Wintel machine). None of my Macs are bootcamped right now, so I can't try. Still trying to get my Windows Kinect back to try out via Parallels.

Thank you very much for this information.

Do you know a way to completely remove drivers? if I simply unisntall, kinect continu not working. I suspect that wrong drivers are still in use.

RK_Art
07-27-2013, 07:05 AM
Can we please have a more detailed manual of how to set up and use Nevron ?
The provided 'manual' is more a joke than something of use.
Most infos I took out of this thread and the official teaser video.
I can get the Nevron and Kinect skeleton work together with the Kinect device so far, but a bit more information would be very usefull.
F.e., how do I connect a character to a Nevron skeleton ?
How can the individual skeleton-parts be adjusted to the character ?
How can the kinect rig be adjusted in its parts to fit the nevron skeleton ?

Thanks

jeremydk
07-27-2013, 09:32 AM
Hi
I got my Xbox Kinect (not Windows) to work on my windows 7 and i can use all the SDK tools and so on but it doesn't show up in Lightwaves virtual studio. Any ideas why not ?

Greenlaw
07-27-2013, 10:04 AM
Even though I'm not a current Mac user, this is my understanding: you need to run under Boot Camp, not Parallels, because with Boot Camp you're actually using a genuine PC running the Windows OS, and not a virtualized PC running inside the Mac OS. At least that's what I've been told in the case of iPi Mocap Studio running on Macs--I assume the same is true for Nevron Motion Kinect since both products use the same Microsoft Kinect 1.7 drivers.

I'm not as Mac saavy as I used to be, but to me it seems that if you're serious about desktop motion capture, you would not want to run under virtualization, even if it's working, because of the potentially high memory and bandwidth overhead.

The real solution for Mac users is to have a genuine Mac version of the Windows Kinect SDK, which seems unlikely to happen, or a version of Nevron that recognizes an alternative Mac compatible Kinect driver, which is more likely but will take time because it will mean replicating what what the Microsoft version already provides developers like LW3DG and maintaining parity.

In my opinion, if you want to use Nevron Motion with Kinect now, short of getting a second computer Boot Camp may be the only practical option.

G.

Spinland
07-27-2013, 10:08 AM
For what it's worth, my readings from the Microsoft help pages say that they only support the Windows Kinect under VMs, not the XBox one. As Greenlaw said, though, the VM overhead would probably be killer. I've run TAFA under Parallels and for heavy models there is already noticeable lag in the audio; I expect mocap will be much worse. I advise biting the bullet and rebooting into Boot Camp for this kind of stuff.

Tranimatronic
07-27-2013, 12:46 PM
Hi Guys,
I'm now all Nevron-ned up, have my xbox kinect set up with the 1.7 drivers, have it recognised in LW, have it tracking my kids going craaaaazy in the living room (inside of layout), but have no idea how to record.
Oddly I'm looking for a button somewhere with "Record" on it, and I can't find one anywhere.
I found a dropdown with "New Take", that looked promising, but this did nothing......
Anyone actually recorded anything yet ? how ? ;)

Also just to reassure, XBOX 360 kinect seems to work (up to this point anyway) just fine. My only problem so far is the user ;)

stevecullum
07-27-2013, 12:48 PM
Hi Guys,
I'm now all Nevron-ned up, have my xbox kinect set up with the 1.7 drivers, have it recognised in LW, have it tracking my kids going craaaaazy in the living room (inside of layout), but have no idea how to record.
Oddly I'm looking for a button somewhere with "Record" on it, and I can't find one anywhere.
I found a dropdown with "New Take", that looked promising, but this did nothing......
Anyone actually recorded anything yet ? how ? ;)

Also just to reassure, XBOX 360 kinect seems to work (up to this point anyway) just fine. My only problem so far is the user ;)

I managed to record my take, by switching on allow record and then pressing play on the timeline. Now all I need to figure out is how to actually bake the motion to key frames. Can't find any information on this - help is appreciated! :)

jeremydk
07-27-2013, 01:04 PM
Hi Guys,
I'm now all Nevron-ned up, have my xbox kinect set up with the 1.7 drivers, have it recognised in LW, have it tracking my kids going craaaaazy in the living room (inside of layout), but have no idea how to record.
Oddly I'm looking for a button somewhere with "Record" on it, and I can't find one anywhere.
I found a dropdown with "New Take", that looked promising, but this did nothing......
Anyone actually recorded anything yet ? how ? ;)

Also just to reassure, XBOX 360 kinect seems to work (up to this point anyway) just fine. My only problem so far is the user ;)


Are you talking about the Kinect bundled with the Xbox. The one with separate power supply ? Not the windows Kinect.
I can get it to work in Windows with all features but it does not show up i LW. Same drivers as you.
In the device manager i see HID,InterSense and PS move.
What OS are you on ?

sami
07-27-2013, 01:19 PM
Hi guys, yes, I do have a XBOX 360 Kinect.
You can record a full body motion, yes.
You have to be in "LIVE", choose the right FPS and hit play while recording your take. You can make multiple takes and choose the best one.
You should avoid direct light to the kinect and sun light too.
I have had best results pointing a light toward me. The results are drastically better.
I'll look up on the internet if there are "best practices" for kinect capturing.

Khan, in case you didnt see my other post, here are a few best practices/tips for the Kinect:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?136627-I-ll-pay-for-NevronMotion-and-love-it!&p=1334366&viewfull=1#post1334366

Unfortunately with the Kinect 1 (Xbox or Windows version) Neck/head rotations arent captured nor are wrists or ankles - so your character ends up a little stiff.

We ended up duct taping a phone to a baseball cap and sending accelerometer/magnometer obtained head rotations via UDP over WiFi in order to get more realism (yes I know that was very DIY but budget didn't include for more research). Just don't have any metal furniture within 3m of your performer or her head will spin like Linda blair from the Exorcist lol ;) Those phone orientation mems chips are crap even in the most expensive ios or samsung models.

This was back in 2011-ish:
115879115875115876
115877115878

This was for live avatar performances not recorded takes where you can tweak after the fact like with Nevronmotion, so we also used a Wii controller for other animations (to flap her wings or for the character's magic wand which had a parented light to it and could trail sparkles or shoot them out or disappear her in a puff), plus a wireless mic to control a jaw bone and make her talk. Since Kinect doesn't do wrists I put a physics spring joint on the hand bone so waving the arm lazy flopped the hand which looked good enough. (So dont forget doing secondary physics driven animation off your Nevronmotion mocap it will help). But I kind of wish I had the time and money back then to have done more R & D and figured out realtime phoneme audio detection to drive mouth shape morphs ;D, but we settled on mic volume driving the extent of the jaw bone rotation and for a cartoon character it worked pretty well...

One more big Kinect performance tip:


Have your performer match your character as closely as possible. i.e. Regardless of retargeting, use big people for bigger characters, smaller folk for smaller characters, and guys for guys & girls for girls. Not everyone has the body awareness and ability of Andy Serkis or a dancer - we found even with the limited tracking of the Kinect, people could still tell when a guy was driving our female fairy character - they just looked too masculine and apey no matter how delicate they acted - the nuances of a female performer although subtle really made her come alive!




I cant wait for the Kinect 2 which has head/neck, wrists & ankles and alot more!! Hope Lino will confirm Nevronmotion will support Kinect2 when it is out for developers late this year.

Tranimatronic
07-27-2013, 01:33 PM
Are you talking about the Kinect bundled with the Xbox. The one with separate power supply ? Not the windows Kinect.
I can get it to work in Windows with all features but it does not show up i LW. Same drivers as you.
In the device manager i see HID,InterSense and PS move.
What OS are you on ?

Windows 7.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/developer-downloads.aspx
Windows complains that it doesnt know what the USB device is, but its fine in Layout. That's all I installed
XBOX 360 kinect with extra power supply cable thingie, bought seperate from Xbox, but for xbox

@Stevecullum : So when you say timeline do you mean the main layout timeline ?

stevecullum
07-27-2013, 01:39 PM
Windows 7.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/developer-downloads.aspx
Windows complains that it doesnt know what the USB device is, but its fine in Layout. That's all I installed
XBOX 360 kinect with extra power supply cable thingie, bought seperate from Xbox, but for xbox

@Stevecullum : So when you say timeline do you mean the main layout timeline ?

Yep.

JamesCurtis
07-27-2013, 01:52 PM
I don't currently have a Kinect, but would it be worthwhile to get Nevron Motion at this time? Would the tools in iNevron be of use at this point? I do want to get a Kinect at some point but can't afford to do it right now. Could someone give me a quick answer. The show price is tempting but don't want to spend it if its only beneficial with a mocap device.

UnCommonGrafx
07-27-2013, 02:25 PM
If you do animation of a character kind, with all the fbx and bvh files available, I would say get it as it will make your life easier in getting started with animation.

If you ever wanted to, get it.

If you have Maestro, GET IT. New life can be brought back to Maestro at this juncture.

Many reasons to get it.

It's a plugin for LW. Ha, the easiest reason of all.

CaptainMarlowe
07-27-2013, 03:16 PM
I bought Nevron today, and as it works fine with bvh files, the best option for me (as I have no windows licence and certainly won't spare an euro for this OS) is to capture on a kinect with fastmocap, then to use nevron to retarget in LW, all natively in Mac OS X without hassle with bootcamp or whatever workaround (of course, for people already having a windows licence and a boot camp partition it's another song). The Nevron motion discount covers 2/3 of fastmocap standard price, so it's not a big deal.

Edit : I could use Nevron to retarget bvh files very easily, but no luck so far with fbx files, even with provided content. Guess I must miss something, as the manual needs to be written properly (currently, it's not even a draft, but it's only a pre-release), or maybe it's mac related. Can some mac user test retargeting with fbx files ? I'd like to understand what I'm missing. For instance, if I load the push scene before retargeting from the content, and hit "retarget", it doesn't work (with or without IK).
On the other hand, retargeting motion builder friendly bvh files from cmu library was very straightforward.

Greenlaw
07-27-2013, 03:22 PM
It's certainly worthwhile if you have LightWave 11.6, have need for motion capture right now, and not a lot of resources to spend. IMO, if you've never used a mocap system before, Nevron Motion is an excellent low-cost introduction that can grow with your needs.

For me, I wasn't sure if Little Green Dog should get Nevron Motion because we already have a solid mocap workflow for LightWave, but after seeing Nevron demonstrated at Siggraph, I felt it could make a good expansion to our current capabilities. I don't see Nevron replacing our current iPi MS2 with dual kinect-multi-PS Move controllers/Motion Builder/LW workflow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jASC8IOsIqY) for full body capture but it could help simplify our workload. Nevron also presents some interesting alternative ways to use Kinect data in LightWave

By 'simplify', I mean we can use Nevron Motion with Kinect to efficiently capture and apply a lot of simpler mocap actions directly to our characters, leaving us more time to fuss over the complicated motions that we will continue to capture with our other system.

Nevron also offers face capture directly inside of LightWave, a feature I'm quite intrigued by. There are several kinect based face capture systems currently out there but Nevron appears to be the only one that can work directly with LightWave.

I'm also intrigued by the idea that you can drive almost any keyframeable item or property in LightWave through Nevron's Kinect interface. I'd like to try using it for alternative forms of digital puppetry.

That's a lot of power for $200.

G.

jeremydk
07-27-2013, 03:49 PM
Windows 7.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/developer-downloads.aspx
Windows complains that it doesnt know what the USB device is, but its fine in Layout. That's all I installed
XBOX 360 kinect with extra power supply cable thingie, bought seperate from Xbox, but for xbox



Exactly same as i installed. Itīs working very well in Windows with the SDK programs and so on but it just does not turn up in Device Manager......strange...and annoying.

stevecullum
07-27-2013, 03:55 PM
Exactly same as i installed. Itīs working very well in Windows with the SDK programs and so on but it just does not turn up in Device Manager......strange...and annoying.

Do all 4 camera thingy's show up in your windows device manager?

jeremydk
07-27-2013, 04:02 PM
Do all 4 camera thingy's show up in your windows device manager?

only three items in the device manager : HID,InterSense and PS move.

jeremydk
07-27-2013, 04:27 PM
only three items in the device manager : HID,InterSense and PS move.

well, i uninstalled the runtime and re-installed it and then added the nevron plugin again and i got the Kinect with the other three devices.
Still can't rename it or get anything out of it. No options and status is stopped.
Is there supposed to be something in the window below the devices ?

Do i need to install the Kinect Developer toolkit aswell ?

jeremydk
07-27-2013, 04:47 PM
I think i got it now :) thanks for all the help. A pro tip: Add plugins after installing the Runtime :)

RK_Art
07-27-2013, 04:54 PM
I installed both, SDK and Developer toolkit for my Kinect for Windows device as I had previously problems with the Runtime-only Software. Now, all works fine with Lightwave and the Kinect device.

Can anyone please tell me how to bind a Nevron skeleton to a character mesh after adjusting it ?

JamesCurtis
07-27-2013, 05:11 PM
After reading the last few comments, I decided to go ahead and buy Nevron Motion even though I don't have a Kinect.

However, there is one thing that I wasn't expecting. I found that after I installed the plugin and registered it, etc., that upon launching LW 11.6, i would get an Missing File Error of "Kinect10.dll not found". I realize that this may be because I don't have a Kinect device [or the runtime?] . To stop the error I had to remove the KinectForWindows plugin from the plugins folder.

I do have a question though - I thought there was supposed to be a character included with the purchase - or am I wrong? It would be nice to be able to immediately see it used with a character - even the one shown at Siggraph.

Tranimatronic
07-27-2013, 06:08 PM
Dont know where else to put this, but Performances->Clear crashes every time (Win7)

Tranimatronic
07-27-2013, 06:10 PM
Also..., still cant figure out how to record. Enabled Allow Rec and Allow play, pressed play in the main Layout timeline, but when I go back nothing happens.

stevecullum
07-27-2013, 06:21 PM
Try using the one shot option. Then disable allow record and press play on the timeline.

Basic steps I've been doing:


After confirming the skeleton is moving, enable allow record, one shot.

Press play on timeline and record your thing.

Disable allow record and press play on timeline again.

Tranimatronic
07-27-2013, 07:09 PM
Got it !! Thanks.
I would never have thought of turning off allow record, but when I think about it I suppose it makes sense. The one shot thing seems important for first time/track recording.

To anyone on the fence about this, if you already have lightwave and a kinect (xbox or windows), for $199 its a whole lot of fun....and I haven't even got to the retargetting part yet

Megalodon2.0
07-27-2013, 07:17 PM
....and I haven't even got to the retargetting part yet

The retargeting part is the ONLY thing I'm interested in. I have no intention of getting a Kinect since we've already got an Optitrack system.

For those who've tried it, how well does the retargeting work?

UnCommonGrafx
07-27-2013, 07:20 PM
Perfectly.
Don't have a Kinect (Edit:, not connect) but have fbx and bvh files from a time with MB.

It works, once you add the proper suffix.

Rocks.

stevecullum
07-27-2013, 07:36 PM
Has anyone tried using the mocap files that ship with Nevron? I loaded in the BVH ones and found the scaling was huge. Tried fiddling about the the import scale option, but it's a faff trying to get the right setting. Anyone have a better way?

CaptainMarlowe
07-27-2013, 09:32 PM
You can select the hips of the imported bvh and globally scale the rig.

Davewriter
07-27-2013, 10:10 PM
After reading the last few comments, I decided to go ahead and buy Nevron Motion even though I don't have a Kinect.

However, there is one thing that I wasn't expecting. I found that after I installed the plugin and registered it, etc., that upon launching LW 11.6, i would get an Missing File Error of "Kinect10.dll not found". I realize that this may be because I don't have a Kinect device [or the runtime?] . To stop the error I had to remove the KinectForWindows plugin from the plugins folder.

I do have a question though - I thought there was supposed to be a character included with the purchase - or am I wrong? It would be nice to be able to immediately see it used with a character - even the one shown at Siggraph.

That sounds as if you need the Microsoft drivers - the 1.7
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/developer-downloads.aspx

Then you should be more happy

Megalodon2.0
07-27-2013, 10:12 PM
Perfectly.
Don't have a Kinect (Edit:, not connect) but have fbx and bvh files from a time with MB.

It works, once you add the proper suffix.

Rocks.

Excellent!

Looks like there's another sale. ;)

JamesCurtis
07-27-2013, 11:25 PM
I'm running LW 11.6 on a Windows Vista machine. Can the Kinect still work on it? The notes on the provided link don't mention Vista.

stevecullum
07-28-2013, 03:28 AM
You can select the hips of the imported bvh and globally scale the rig.

Mmm...it tried that and the bones disappeared off the screen. I'll have another attempt - cheers!

jeremydk
07-28-2013, 04:19 AM
when i activate in the studio window the skeleton just collapses on the "floor". No matter what the other buttons are set to. Any ideas why ?
I can see my tracking in the options window. It seems to work fine.

khan973
07-28-2013, 05:37 AM
@Jeremy, it collapses on the floor, but when your body is recognized (be sure to Activate and hit "LIVE") it will capture your movements.

@Steve, Use Graph editor and change the scale and position for the whole scene using the Hip.
It worked for me, the the character doesn't move as far.
The only problem I have is the orientation of the limbs, most of the time they face the wrong side eve though I have retargetted correctly.

Something I haven't figured yet, is whether I should change the proportions of my rig or of the motion Capture rig.
I don't know how it affects both doig iit either way.

UnCommonGrafx
07-28-2013, 06:27 AM
Scale in the opening dialogue.
25% wasn't so bad.

If you do scale it only the graph editor will do it as you wish.



Has anyone tried using the mocap files that ship with Nevron? I loaded in the BVH ones and found the scaling was huge. Tried fiddling about the the import scale option, but it's a faff trying to get the right setting. Anyone have a better way?

stevecullum
07-28-2013, 07:00 AM
@Steve, Use Graph editor and change the scale and position for the whole scene using the Hip.

Ah - I was using the regular scaling. Will have another go after importing at 25%. I noticed the T Pose was hip centered at 0, but the motion jumps above this when it starts. If I alter this manually so the T-Pose aligns with the nevron skeleton, will it break anything?

wesleycorgi
07-28-2013, 07:11 AM
I'm running LW 11.6 on a Windows Vista machine. Can the Kinect still work on it? The notes on the provided link don't mention Vista.

Microsoft is spec'ing their Kinect 1.7 and Kinect SDK 1.7(which you would have to use for Kinect XBOX) drivers for Win 7 and 8.

UnCommonGrafx
07-28-2013, 07:43 AM
Break, no.
On frame 0, you should see what's going to happen.

And maybe I'm reading it wrong but I think manually changing the Nevron Skeleton would be the way to do it. The other way around and it would seem you are altering the animation.


Ah - I was using the regular scaling. Will have another go after importing at 25%. I noticed the T Pose was hip centered at 0, but the motion jumps above this when it starts. If I alter this manually so the T-Pose aligns with the nevron skeleton, will it break anything?

Phil
07-28-2013, 08:08 AM
Ah - I was using the regular scaling. Will have another go after importing at 25%. I noticed the T Pose was hip centered at 0, but the motion jumps above this when it starts. If I alter this manually so the T-Pose aligns with the nevron skeleton, will it break anything?

Shift the mocap at frame 0. It shouldn't cause any trouble doing it this way. The mocap frame at time zero is a reference and you can manipulate the mocap skeleton at that frame to match your target object - I've done it this way with IKinema in Maya without encountering trouble. You do this prior to any retargeting, naturally.

- - - Updated - - -


Break, no.
On frame 0, you should see what's going to happen.

And maybe I'm reading it wrong but I think manually changing the Nevron Skeleton would be the way to do it. The other way around and it would seem you are altering the animation.

The density of keyframes on mocap generally means that there's no issue - frame 0 is generally 'special' and I've yet to see mocap that doesn't have a key on every frame for control points.

sami
07-28-2013, 08:40 AM
Has Newtek, rob or Lino yet promised whether Nevronmotion will support Kinect2 later this year? I'd like a yea or nay before I buy it... Thanks :)

RK_Art
07-28-2013, 08:59 AM
Got anyone FBX-Retargeting to work ?
Also with the 'Add Prefix'-method my Nevron skeleton doesn't move after hitting the retargeting button. The joints become purple, but no movement while playing the animation. Only the FBX-skeleton moves.

stevecullum
07-28-2013, 08:59 AM
Shift the mocap at frame 0. It shouldn't cause any trouble doing it this way. The mocap frame at time zero is a reference and you can manipulate the mocap skeleton at that frame to match your target object - I've done it this way with IKinema in Maya without encountering trouble. You do this prior to any retargeting, naturally.

Thanks for confirming. Probably being a pleb...but what am I doing wrong with the scaling?

115906

UnCommonGrafx
07-28-2013, 09:46 AM
Excellent info, Phil. Will work with it like that later today.

Steve, what are you trying to accomplish with the scaling?

stevecullum
07-28-2013, 09:50 AM
Excellent info, Phil. Will work with it like that later today.

Steve, what are you trying to accomplish with the scaling?

When you load in the supplied bvh mocap, it's oversized compared to the nevron skeleton and needs re-scaling...

UnCommonGrafx
07-28-2013, 10:28 AM
Is scaling at load time not working for you?

stevecullum
07-28-2013, 11:01 AM
Is scaling at load time not working for you?

Partially - just thought might be a faster way to scale rather than trial and error import scaling.

stevecullum
07-28-2013, 11:19 AM
Haha - got it working finally. :)

CaptainMarlowe
07-28-2013, 01:14 PM
Got anyone FBX-Retargeting to work ?
Also with the 'Add Prefix'-method my Nevron skeleton doesn't move after hitting the retargeting button. The joints become purple, but no movement while playing the animation. Only the FBX-skeleton moves.

Nope, doesn't get fbx to retrgeting to work also.
BVH retargeting also gave various results. Sometimes, the arms are not animated correctlyy and the purple boxes don't allow for manual correction... and sometimes it works perfectly. I've used mainly CMU library motion-builder friendly BVH's for my tests.

UnCommonGrafx
07-28-2013, 01:45 PM
I've noticed that the naming for the source needs to be the full name, e.g., character_v001:hip.
In the stock setup, there is no indication that you have to capture the whole name in this manner.

I figured it out when I tried to manually assign each piece. After noticing the name inclusion, I've had success with retargeting.

CaptainMarlowe
07-28-2013, 02:01 PM
Same here, I've just found out after a new try which was much more successful.

richard.reinisc
07-31-2013, 08:39 AM
Install Plugins after installing SDK!
Windows 8 32Bit, XBOX 360 Kinect => works

I also had problems getting the Kinect device to run under Lightwave 11.6. It also showed just a white screen instead of the actual camera data. I use a notebook with Windows 8 32 Bit, I installed the KinectSDK-v1.7 (not the Runtime), I deleted the standard driver in the device manager (now it shows "Kinect for Windows" => Audio,Camera, Security), I also use the cheaper XBOX 360 version of Kinect. After a few hours of trying (the Microsoft Demos already worked, a green steady light at the Kinect device) I tried as master jeremydk mentioned (:-) thanks) to delete the plugins in Lightwave (KinectForWindows.p and NevronMotion.p) and added them again - suprisingly it worked just after that.

Spinland
07-31-2013, 09:10 AM
I've noticed that the naming for the source needs to be the full name, e.g., character_v001:hip.


Maybe it's just me, but I'm confused as to what the "source" is. Is that the list of bones in the right-hand column, and do they reflect the names of the bones in your model skeleton, as opposed to the names of the bones in the imported mocap file?

ewilliams2
07-31-2013, 09:13 AM
When I try to load the KinectForWindows.p I get: 0 plug-ins in 1 files. Surely this can not be correct, wonder what I am doing wrong? Kinect sdk installed and
driver looks good.

allabulle
07-31-2013, 11:05 AM
I have an issue when everything works fine, but I can't seem to work out what to do so I get the window with the video from the Kinect to show.

The Kinect works, the skeleton moves as I move, but I see no video window. The lack of documentation doesn't help either. Am I the only one not figuring it out?

Edit: OK, I finally figure it out. One must click on the third row of the Device Manager, called Settings, the 'Open...' button. I thought that was merely informative because clearly I need more sleep. Sorry if I bothered too much here. If any other idiot is having the same issue, now you know why and, more important that that, you know you are not alone. :)

Rollie Hudson
08-03-2013, 02:44 PM
I've noticed that the naming for the source needs to be the full name, e.g., character_v001:hip.
In the stock setup, there is no indication that you have to capture the whole name in this manner.

I figured it out when I tried to manually assign each piece. After noticing the name inclusion, I've had success with retargeting.

UnCommonGrafx,

Can you expand on your naming discovery/testing? I'm getting really varied results - mostly unsuccessful - with the BVH files, and I'm wondering if I need to go through the entire list of bone names in the Mo Cap "rig" in order to match it to the NevronMotion rig - before retargeting.

I feel that I'm just starting to feel my way into this but it's definitely not working well at this point, but I'm thinking it's more my lack of understanding of the plug-in...

Another issue I'm having with the BVH files - after re-targeting - is that the model seems to only have it's center null re-targeted. So the mo-cap does its movement but the NevronMotion rig (and model) simply spin and twist around the hip null - and/or becomes distorted.

But again, this is just getting started...

UnCommonGrafx
08-03-2013, 08:58 PM
Howdy,
Do you have a bvh to look at? Varied is right: on some, I've had to include the object's name as part of the prefix, others no; as well, it seems that you also have to change the suffix. (On the bvh loading panel is a way to put numeric suffixes on the bones. Seems most bvh files come with *_1 as th bone suffix so keeping the number at 1 is a help.)

Share a bvh for the crowd to try out and offer suggestions.

Keep at and ask some more questions; we'll do what we can to help each other until Lino is back with tutorials.

Qexit
08-04-2013, 05:07 AM
It might be worth continuing this discussion in the Nevron Motion section of the forum now that it has been added. Maybe ask one of the mods to shift this whole thread over there ?

Qexit
08-05-2013, 08:16 AM
Actually, I'll do it myself.

Could one of the Mods please relocate this thread to the Nevron Motion section of the Forums where it now belongs.

Thanks

Burchigb
08-11-2013, 04:39 PM
Any news on the VIDs for this?

CaptainMarlowe
08-12-2013, 01:34 AM
Lino said in another thread that a video was ready, but that an update of 11.6 and nevron motion (with genoma nevron-firendly rig included) were on the way, so I guess the vids will be delayed until the new releases are out.

lino.grandi
08-21-2013, 09:20 AM
The video will be online today!

allabulle
08-21-2013, 09:23 AM
Good to know, Lino!

Spinland
08-21-2013, 09:30 AM
The video will be online today!

Woo hoo! :thumbsup:

jeremydk
02-02-2014, 11:02 AM
I just re-installed my system and wanted to spread the word on how to use the Xbox360 Kinect on a Windows 7 PC in LW in case you forgot like i did. (it's the Kinect that is labeled XBOX360 on the front and not Kinect.)
1. Close Lightwave
2. Install KinectSDK-v1.8-Setup.exe from MS and skip the developer tools (NOT the runtime1.7 - not needed)
3. Enjoy Motion capture