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View Full Version : Need modeling help Please

Tony3d
07-19-2013, 03:01 PM
Hi all, Can someone tell me how in gods name I can model this braid. I have no clue. Thanks.

macb
07-19-2013, 03:10 PM
Have you tried rope editor plus? http://www.next4d.com/

nickdigital
07-19-2013, 03:11 PM
The braid pattern probably cycles. You just need to find the pattern and clone that pattern.

Tony3d
07-19-2013, 03:16 PM
But these are inter weaved. Not sure what you mean by find the cycle.

Tony3d
07-19-2013, 03:22 PM
Have you tried rope editor plus? http://www.next4d.com/

I'm on a Mac Pro. Looks like thats just for Windows.

nickdigital
07-19-2013, 03:22 PM
But these are inter weaved. Not sure what you mean by find the cycle.

What I mean is each strand probably goes through the same path. It'd be the process of finding when that strand repeats that path. Think of it like finding the least common denominator in math.

Once you find the pattern you could draw it out with splines. Then do a rail extrude and then clone that geometry.

Or, find the pattern, draw our your spline, clone the splines, clone and offset them to make a longer spline. Then do the rail extrude.

ccclarke
07-19-2013, 03:43 PM
This was a challenge the first time I had to do it. I needed a rope-like border for a circular logo and used the Bend tool on this length of wire rope to complete the effect. It turned out really nice and I ended up including it as a problem-solving example for one of my Lightwave modeling classes.

First, like Nickdigital said, you have to determine the pattern you want and use a tool like Array's Radial function to repeat it. If you look closely, you'll see a dividing line (marked by a square) where the square intersects the end point of each braid, --which in this case, is a 360 degree twist for each of the three segments. Each braided segment was repeated to create three segments using the Radial tool. The distance from the axis the Radial tool uses is what determines the "tightness" of the braid. Once I got a small segment looking the way I wanted, it was a simple matter to use the Array tool to create the length of braided segments to suit the application.

Hope this helps!

CC

JoePoe
07-19-2013, 04:20 PM

What I mean is.... everyone is correct. BUT... the whites are a group and the browns are a MIRROR of the whites and offset.
So I would create one spiral around the origin. Array it so there are four. Copy all that into another layer > MIRROR and move it up a half step.
Then it's a little hand work to get the intersections off of each other. Then array the whole unit along the length.

I'll try a quick stab.

Tony3d
07-19-2013, 04:36 PM

What I mean is.... everyone is correct. BUT... the whites are a group and the browns are a MIRROR of the whites and offset.
So I would create one spiral around the origin. Array it so there are four. Copy all that into another layer > MIRROR and move it up a half step.
Then it's a little hand work to get the intersections off of each other. Then array the whole unit along the length.

I'll try a quick stab.

Ok. I'm Lost. I've made a lot of cables twisted all ways, but this braid has got me stumped! Can someone make an example? That would help me a lot.

JoePoe
07-19-2013, 04:53 PM
So, yeah.... the mirror thing is key for this.

This is very quick and dirty. I'm sure there is a lot wrong with it but the concept is there.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115710&d=1374270771

Kuzey
07-19-2013, 04:56 PM
Ok. I'm Lost. I've made a lot of cables twisted all ways, but this braid has got me stumped! Can someone make an example? That would help me a lot.

Checkout the rope tutorial #22 on http://www.trhlogos.dk

Kuzey

JoePoe
07-20-2013, 11:47 AM
Too late to edit my other post.

The "initial" offset isn't necessary.... just pushes the crisscrossing geometry down a notch.

But the mirror is critical. :)

Also important... on your initial twists make sure edges fall on the apex (or exactly in the middle I guess.... didn't try that route) of curves. Makes the work of moving geometry off of each other easier.

Tony3d
07-21-2013, 10:18 AM
I know you guys are going to kill me, and I feel real stupid asking, but can someone give me a step by step? I'm just not getting it. Sorry, I feel like a real dummy here.

Tony3d
07-21-2013, 03:42 PM
This is the mess I came up with. I need a step by step with screen dumps or I'll never understand whats going on here.

probiner
07-21-2013, 05:12 PM
Px_Bezier can help here.

Just go into an image editor and mark up an area of the wires with repeat itself on an array, model them, tweak a lot and then and then use Array.

You can also use the Siggraph streamers to tutorial so the you change the paths better (they will be keyframes in this case)

I really hope at some point LW gets a nice curve (drawn, motion, graph editor, node) revamp.

Cheers

Tony3d
07-22-2013, 07:50 AM
Guys please send some screen dumps so I can better understand how to do this.

Tony3d
07-22-2013, 07:53 AM

What I mean is.... everyone is correct. BUT... the whites are a group and the browns are a MIRROR of the whites and offset.
So I would create one spiral around the origin. Array it so there are four. Copy all that into another layer > MIRROR and move it up a half step.
Then it's a little hand work to get the intersections off of each other. Then array the whole unit along the length.

I'll try a quick stab.

When you say mirror and offset, which way am I mirroring, and offsetting?

nickdigital
07-22-2013, 08:21 AM
I believe the mirror is in the Y axis and the offset is down the X or Z (depending on which axis you've modeled it down).

Tony3d
07-22-2013, 09:21 AM
I believe the mirror is in the Y axis and the offset is down the X or Z (depending on which axis you've modeled it down).

Ok, here is my path, and what I have that looks right to me. Everything looks weaved. Now how do I get that look in a round looking cable. This is simply flat.

nickdigital
07-22-2013, 10:09 AM
I suppose you could use the twist tool bit I don't think that'll recreate the actual cyclic weaving pattern.

Part of the process of finding the pattern is to find where the strand repeats its path in all 3 axis.

JoePoe
07-22-2013, 04:04 PM
Tony, I'm willing to bet that path didn't weave quite right. Looking at the original photo the central channel of all the craziness is EMPTY. Everything weaves around the core axis.
So try starting your spirals off to the side and then turning them around the origin.

I'm away from the computer at the moment but will try to post some screen grabs later.
I'm pretty crunched for time over the next few days, but after Wednesday I might be able to throw something a little more comprehensive together.

(aren't you lucky.... this is my 666th post... :devil:)

Tony3d
07-23-2013, 12:12 AM
Tony, I'm willing to bet that path didn't weave quite right. Looking at the original photo the central channel of all the craziness is EMPTY. Everything weaves around the core axis.
So try starting your spirals off to the side and then turning them around the origin.

I'm away from the computer at the moment but will try to post some screen grabs later.
I'm pretty crunched for time over the next few days, but after Wednesday I might be able to throw something a little more comprehensive together.

(aren't you lucky.... this is my 666th post... :devil:)

Man thanks. That would really be great!

JoePoe
07-25-2013, 08:47 AM
Tony, it's been a couple days. Did you get this sorted out? Still need a hand?

JoePoe
07-29-2013, 07:23 PM
Here ya go....Hope it's not too late.

So believe it or not, here's the key element you need......
And an animated gif tutorial below.
i did everything by eye, but there's no reason why you can't use numerics each step of the way for more control.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115969&d=1375145431

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115970&d=1375145870

:beerchug:

Oh, and if some of the slides go past too fast, just take it into Quicktime player and you can use the arrow keys to flip through each step at your liesure.

PhotoTekArtWork
07-29-2013, 08:26 PM
Thanks for the tutorial. I'll put this in my bag of knowledge.

GoatDude
07-29-2013, 10:14 PM
Nice, Thanks JoePoe

Tony3d
07-30-2013, 06:28 PM
Wow Joe don't know how to thank you. I will go through this tutorial first chance I get. In the middle of another job right now. This is way more than I expected. Really appreciate all the time you put into this. Amazes me how many people offer to help in this community. I feel real bad asking all these stupid questions, but being almost 60 years old, these concepts take a bit of time to sink in. LOL! Again, thanks so much for this. I'll post any new images when I come up with them.