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View Full Version : I am SO dissapointed Newtek, this is NOT okay..........



mis
07-04-2013, 04:13 AM
Welll ime not really in the mood right now
and if you see the video i made , youll know why

Newtek this is NOT okay....

You are better then this.........

http://youtu.be/jW2Szo9wiOQ

Kuzey
07-04-2013, 04:26 AM
Yeah..a decent dvd box would have been nice.

Maybe the future is a personalized flash drive/key chain thingy like lightwiki created a couple of years ago..that looked super cool :)

Surrealist.
07-04-2013, 04:31 AM
Actually, you know that gives me an idea. I think it would be cool for NewTek to offer a cover you can print out and slip into one of those full window DVD covers and stick it on your shelf. Or maybe people can design their own. Or how about a cover design repository. People can come up with designs or a mini challenge. Something.

Personally, I hate physical content. It just clutters up my room and I am always looking for a place to stow things.

But to each his own.

However, I am very surprised that NT is even printing any kind of deliverables. In the digital download age, who needs them. Really. That's me.

Now the retail market in stores is another thing entirely. Seems to still be driven by big boxes and stuff.

Just don't like the idea of my personal shelf looking like a NewTek retail outlet.

Again, that's me. But to each his own.

biliousfrog
07-04-2013, 04:44 AM
My thoughts - It's a sign of the times. Internet speeds are better than the v.6 days, shop sales are probably non-existent now and the cost of producing boxes and packaging + distribution are very high. At best, the DVD's will be current for 6 months before an update is released - then it will be redundant.

As nice as it is to have fancy packaging, it shouldn't be a priority when choosing a software application. Lightwave is advancing quickly now, the team are working hard and I would rather see their resources targeted towards software development and decent online distribution than wasting resources and materials on packaging and physical distribution.

Greenlaw
07-04-2013, 04:50 AM
Personally, I prefer downloadable software only--I always wind up throwing out packaging because I really don't want to add more clutter to my tiny studio. Same goes for printed manuals* which go out of date as soon as a revised PDF file gets posted by the developers, and then the print gets tossed into the recycle bin. And if minimalist packaging saves a few trees from being wasted, all the better.

I'm sure minimalist packaging saves NewTek a lot of money too, which hopefully is being better spent paying their developers and acquiring useful tech.

That's just my own opinion of course. :)

G.

*I feel differently about literature and art books though. In these cases, I still prefer a real book I can hold, put on a bookshelf or loan out to a friend.

mis
07-04-2013, 04:50 AM
you might have a point on that and its ofcause understandable but with all do respect.
i know its 2013 and we all download the upgrade from the page.
but when you got an option to recive media its not too much to ask to get atleast a cover for it
this is an advanced software package, not just some cheep cd on a magazine cover.

if thats the future , why even have the choise for recive media when ordering, if its like this
we might as well just burn the cd ourself....

Ryan Roye
07-04-2013, 04:52 AM
I'd be pissed too if I got this in the mail. I watched the video and this seems like quite a legit complaint. This makes me really glad I didn't opt for the CD.

They shouldn't don't offer the service at all. $26 is a hell of a lot for a scratched up CD in an envelope.

biliousfrog
07-04-2013, 04:58 AM
...but when you got an option to recive media its not too much to ask to get atleast a cover for it
this is an advanced software package, not just some cheep cd on a magazine cover.

if thats the future , why even have the choise for recive media when ordering, if its like this
we might as well just burn the cd ourself....

I totally agree with you about that. As it was a paid for option, I would have expected at least a case for it.

Greenlaw
07-04-2013, 04:59 AM
I believe reason the choice between downloadable and physical media exists is that accounting departments at some companies will only approve a P.O. for tangible items. This is an old fashioned notion of course, and by now most companies have adapted to approving P.O.s for downloadable software.

That said, I think NT should mention this on the purchase page so that the buyer knows what they're getting.

G.

MarcusM
07-04-2013, 05:00 AM
Great video :)

For me, in LightWave 10 box, won paper 3d glasses... it cost 0.3 USD in Poland.
This one cost 3.2 USD :
http://allegro.pl/okulary-3d-red-cyan-anaglify-3d-nvidia-model-2013-i3349359460.html
Or even this for 1 USD:
http://allegro.pl/okulary-3d-red-cyan-anaglify-3d-nvidia-model-2013-i3349358970.html

zardoz
07-04-2013, 05:20 AM
I prefer the download only. I don't like clutter, and I really don't need the boxes or the manuals. And...around here when you get something in the mail (and when it comes from the US), most of the times it is stopped at the customs office (I guess that's how you call it) and I always have to pay a lot of money to take it. So...downloads all the way.

Surrealist.
07-04-2013, 05:21 AM
Well paying for it is another wrinkle I had not thought of.

If you are going to pay for it, you should get something tangible (and nice) if having that means something to you. Absolutely.

There is also still kind of a lingering of a value to having the discs in the aftermarket as well. But even that is fading.

But there is no real reason now to have the hard copy unless you value having some kind of pretty box.

I can understand the beef completely.

hrgiger
07-04-2013, 06:16 AM
Personally I don't see why so many are concerned about having something nice to put on the shelf. It's an empty box and I'm not big on storing nice looking empty boxes anywhere.

Having said that, I think its pretty cheap that if they are going to send you a physical disk, they can at least put it in a CD cover so it does't get scratched. You know, common sense and all that.

mis
07-04-2013, 06:37 AM
Hrgiger we all might look different opon it but desipte that
there is alot of piracy going on out ther , and i would agree that alot of software today
wouldnt have been that popular if it wasnt for piracy, but i think ime not the only one
that see a joy in having somthing to show for it,
some thing that shows , hey , ive moved . ime not running on a pirate version
ime acualy a licenced user of this software, so i dont mind showing that i took a step

Marcia
07-04-2013, 07:24 AM
The only complaint I would have is that the DVD wasn't protected at all... at least they could have sprung for the standard cardboard wallet. Sheesh.

evenflcw
07-04-2013, 08:14 AM
Valid complaint. 200 kronors for that is bad. If people pay extra it's because they want something extra. Nobody NEEDS a cd from NT. Getting a cd in a cardboard envelope is akin to "Goddag yxskaft" (nordic expression, a form of nonsequitur following a really bad judgement call). I don't think supplying a case would be the only or the least complaint you could do. There should be a case. There should be inspiring cover art. And preferably there should be soemthing extra that you didn't expect - doesn't need to be much or expensive - just some LW bling - a poster, a NT magazine, stickers, a photo of the team - whatever. Paying extra for something you don't really need is showing your love, you should receive some love back.

50one
07-04-2013, 08:26 AM
This thread reminded me something. Few years back, I thought it would be nice to have the linux distro on a printed CD[don't ask me why] and ordered my disc, paid like 20 quid for it(feeling proud hat I can support a free OS somehow) and was really eager to receive a linux in a box, few days later comes the package, opened it just to find badly scratched normal, I repeat cheap 'Tesco' brand CD-R with the linux image on it....:)

Since then, only digital downloads, besides you saves the space, currently not sure what to do with all those boxes from software in my room and also you always got immediate access, should you want to install it.

jasonwestmas
07-04-2013, 08:51 AM
I strongly dislike boxes and paper in my house. It's gotta be something really important to be printed on paper.

mis
07-04-2013, 09:50 AM
Jason Lightwave IS important thats why we support it
thats why some of us Choose to click that button that says
YES i wanna pay extra to get the disks as well....

Just like when we order Lightwave Tshirts to walk around as a living poster to show the nation
that theres other 3d apps then max out there :)

jwiede
07-04-2013, 10:02 AM
Paying extra for something you don't really need is showing your love, you should receive some love back.

Exactly. Some folks here seem to be missing the point: The OP paid $26 extra to receive physical media, and that's all he got. As evenflcw said, any customer willing to pay that much just for physical media deserves a case, a bit of eye candy on it, and a bit of appreciation as well.

Sending the DVD via post without even putting a case around it shows zero due care for the safety of customer's goods. Further, Newtek knows full well their LW customers are visual artists. Charging that much just for physical/archival media without even providing so much as a (visually interesting) protective sleeve or case is just cheap and soulless, and represents cost-cutting in all the wrong ways.

scallahan1
07-04-2013, 10:05 AM
I agree that you should at least get the kind of package like 9 or 11, the card/plastic box that does a good job of protecting things. Funny, though, I still have my original Lightscape box with the huge manual I bought in the 90's, as well as the upgrade box a few years later. And one or two huge formZ boxes, too. They are just taking up space, of course.

Right now I'm actually downloading my CS6 Production Premium upgrade. I was going to order the DVD backup copy too but now I think I might burn it myself.

Steve-o

DrStrik9
07-04-2013, 10:15 AM
About 15-20 years ago when we were doing a lot of package design for global corporations, we were told (by those in the know) that the future would have NO packaging, just product. At the time, this idea was being pushed primarily by German corporations. Seems to have come to pass.

Retail is basically dead, especially for technology, with a few exceptions. Packaging once sold the product, but not anymore. (Packaging still works to sell grocery products.)

I do like the idea of designing our own LW packages though, as a hobby project. That would sort of be like designing "futuristic cars" from the 1950's. :+)

shrox
07-04-2013, 10:27 AM
Yes, let us that like tangible objects at least receive nice tangible objects.

hrgiger
07-04-2013, 10:38 AM
Well in the case of opting for a physical delivery, its clear what Newtek should do. Either one of two things.

Either lower the cost of $26 to a reasonable amount of shipping a 'burned' CD in a cardboard envevelope (perhaps they're charging you for the scratch service that comes with shipping a CD unprotected).

Or give some actual value to that extra charge by including a simple DVD case with some nice artwork or design on it.

shrox
07-04-2013, 10:40 AM
About 15-20 years ago when we were doing a lot of package design for global corporations, we were told (by those in the know) that the future would have NO packaging, just product. At the time, this idea was being pushed primarily by German corporations. Seems to have come to pass.

Retail is basically dead, especially for technology, with a few exceptions. Packaging once sold the product, but not anymore. (Packaging still works to sell grocery products.)

I do like the idea of designing our own LW packages though, as a hobby project. That would sort of be like designing "futuristic cars" from the 1950's. :+)

Packaging SELLS products, not everything is digital...

115381

115382

People DO assign value to packaging, who wants just a bunch of downloads at Christmas, or birthdays? When you order online, you might receive a plain brown shipping box, but inside the item itself is usually in a colorful box.

mis
07-04-2013, 10:44 AM
Well i think its sad to see, first of all cause i only recived what i got

and not that i like to refer to microsoft but today microsoft sells
office and stuff that is Download so all to get in the box is a peace of paper with the serial code on it
and even THAT box is alot better then this cardbord BEEEP
and thats even more close to empty then this

cresshead
07-04-2013, 11:02 AM
Personally I don't see why so many are concerned about having something nice to put on the shelf. It's an empty box and I'm not big on storing nice looking empty boxes anywhere.

Having said that, I think its pretty cheap that if they are going to send you a physical disk, they can at least put it in a CD cover so it does't get scratched. You know, common sense and all that.



most probably because that are not a D.N.A "clone" of your good self!

If I opt for a Ģ30 'extra' physical version of the software I would not expect a CDR and a tatty bit of blank card in a envelope...that just sucks...
at the very least Newtek should come here... and say sorry for such poor product packaging and offer a refund for the said extra cost.

this just looks like something a spotty teenager would send in the post to a friend of some pirated game.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6Y_nvc5tqCk/UOmZKbtjyVI/AAAAAAAACWA/EGqnITnf3G0/s320/A+Band.jpeg

DrStrik9
07-04-2013, 11:18 AM
Packaging SELLS products, not everything is digital...

115381

115382

People DO assign value to packaging, who wants just a bunch of downloads at Christmas, or birthdays? When you order online, you might receive a plain brown shipping box, but inside the item itself is usually in a colorful box.

You're right that packaging still sells some products. But those categories are dwindling. Packaging still sells most grocery items, and your toy example is also good, because many toys can't sell themselves without great packaging and strategic advertising. But whether we like it or not, the day of *everything* being nicely packaged is passing. ESPECIALLY software.

DrStrik9
07-04-2013, 01:12 PM
most probably because that are not a D.N.A "clone" of your good self!

If I opt for a Ģ30 'extra' physical version of the software I would not expect a CDR and a tatty bit of blank card in a envelope...that just sucks...

I couldn't agree more. I typically just burn my own CD of the installer, which costs less than $1, and a few minutes of my time.

OnlineRender
07-04-2013, 01:13 PM
Yeah..a decent dvd box would have been nice.

Maybe the future is a personalized flash drive/key chain thingy like lightwiki created a couple of years ago..that looked super cool :)

they are super cool and well made flash drive even the printing was top quality I keep getting emails asking if I would like more dispatched , but they are pretty expensive I would need to order 100 just to bring the price down and the data size up /\ but I agree they are a cool marketing tool and its not just the credit card type they have an array of other media types like wrist bands and pens ...

bobakabob
07-04-2013, 03:53 PM
Who wants to look at a shelf? I must admit I have all my Lightwave software boxes from 5.6 onwards on display but then I'm a rather sad nostalgic old fool and no one in my circle of friends or family appear remotely interested. My last physical Zbrush box must have been 3.1 in 2007, it's all downloadable now. The LW3G login page is brilliant, everything is stored and you don't have to faff around looking for ancient serial numbers.

cresshead
07-04-2013, 05:03 PM
Who wants to look at a shelf? I must admit I have all my Lightwave software boxes from 5.6 onwards on display but then I'm a rather sad nostalgic old fool and no one in my circle of friends or family appear remotely interested. My last physical Zbrush box must have been 3.1 in 2007, it's all downloadable now. The LW3G login page is brilliant, everything is stored and you don't have to faff around looking for ancient serial numbers.

you do by your own admission!...hello!

and it's not for friends and family..it's for YOU...that why they are on that shelf right?

Greenlaw
07-04-2013, 05:18 PM
I'll admit that there was a time when I kept software boxes on the shelves above my desk but nowadays I'm surrounded by too many toys, art supplies, books and hardware to spare room for empty boxes. I was a little saddened at the time but the boxes got tossed out many, many years ago, and I really don't think about my 'empty friends' much anymore.

These days, I just want a bigger desk and larger office space to work in. But not for boxes. :p

G.

Surrealist.
07-04-2013, 05:31 PM
But I think the main point here is that sure, most of us have moved on as far as needing and wanting boxes. There is no real good reason to have them. I don't want any. But even about a year ago when I did an upgrade with NT, I really had to talk the guy out of sending me the box and discs. No. I don't need them. Don't want them.... finally he agreed. So that saved me the shipping charges for something I did not want.

Now NewTek has to realize that if they are going to continue to offer this service and collect money even if it is basically the shipping charge that they should offer a product in a box with pretty pictures or discontinue it entirely. Or for those who do want a burned disc as a service this is understood as such and packed properly in a no frills CD shipping container that is actually protected from scratching.

UnCommonGrafx
07-04-2013, 06:47 PM
Luddittes...

Hard to move into the future when it's not got nasty plastic or wasted cardboard to show where you've been.


Kudos, Newtek LW3DG, for the greenest packaging I've seen in a long time: no plastics to breakdown in one's house, assisting in death; no boxes to cart around the next time one moves; and mostly, you can give the coders more green, or hire another one, and give us the goodness of 12 beyond what all we want.

safetyman
07-04-2013, 06:57 PM
Over at Newegg you can get a 25-pack of DVDs for $6, a 10-pack of DVD cases for $3, and a 100-pack of DVD printer labels for $5.

The point being, if you paid $26 for a physical disc and that's what you got, it's a tremendous rip-off.

Oedo 808
07-04-2013, 07:45 PM
Luddittes...

Hard to move into the future when it's not got nasty plastic or wasted cardboard to show where you've been.


Kudos, Newtek LW3DG, for the greenest packaging I've seen in a long time: no plastics to breakdown in one's house, assisting in death; no boxes to cart around the next time one moves; and mostly, you can give the coders more green, or hire another one, and give us the goodness of 12 beyond what all we want.

Yawn :sleeping:

The packaging would have been less of a waste of energy than that post.

On topic, I have to agree, if you are going to charge for physical media it needs to be better, and even if they do charge less then I'm not sure that any reduction can justify sending out media that looks like it has been burnt on someone's nephew's PC, it would be better to charge more in that case and get it done properly.

hrgiger
07-04-2013, 07:55 PM
I have to say that this is a rare thread for me. Normally, I wouldn't change my view on something so easily, I'm quite stubborn like that. But I started this thread thinking what a silly thing to complain about but now I can see that Mis has a legitimate reason to be less then satisfied with what he received from Newtek. Of course, I didn't realize at first that he had paid extra for a physical delivery. And I hate when companies overcharge customers and clearly do not give them value for that price. And a unprotected CD in a cardboard envelope does not justify the extra charge he incurred in any way.

I can understand and probably even agree with Newtek deciding to scale back on packaging for either cost or environmental reasons. I don't see a problem with that at all. However, if they are going to charge extra to ship physical media, they should justify the cost.

sukardi
07-04-2013, 08:00 PM
Actually, the whole point of having big boxes is for marketing and getting the customer to feel they are getting their money's worth.

I agree that nowadays not all customer thinks that way but there are still many who do.

Just a suggestion to Newtek: For physical delivery why don't you send a small but really nicely designed box and a good quality, professionally designed Lightwave polo shirt.

The point is - whatever you do, you have to make your paying customer happy...

Oedo 808
07-04-2013, 08:00 PM
I can understand and probably even agree with Newtek deciding to scale back on packaging for either cost or environmental reasons. I don't see a problem with that at all. However, if they are going to charge extra to ship physical media, they should justify the cost.

Aye, perhaps they could have more than one option and emphasize that method as an eco-friendly, economy option. Just perhaps secure the disc a little better.

shadowshifter
07-04-2013, 08:09 PM
There's still some places on the planet that have cheap and crappy internet service not because the people are poor and can't afford computers, but because they live out in the middle of nowhere and are probably too small and remote for their government to care about giving them proper internet access (situation of my home "town", I'm not bitter about it at all ;)). If I was living back home I'd only be buying the dvds because there is no way I would be able to download Lightwave with the internet connection there (it would take a day or so assuming it didn't cut out, and I would probably blow the monthly cap). So until Skynet...er...Project Loon or something like it happens and gives everyone on the planet decent unfiltered internet access, the physical media is going to remain necessary if in a vast minority.

But yeh at least put the dvd in a cover.

prometheus
07-04-2013, 08:11 PM
Absolutly valid complaint, If I were to have bought in to that physical copy, I would have gone sky high in the roof of dissapointment too.

Newtek, read this thread and take note, bring it up on a meeting, make it better next time..or inform your customers of how the physical appaerance will be once shipped, and perhaps think of a way
to compensate those not satisfied with it, maybe a discount on the next upgrade would be decent for a good customer satisfaction index regarding your products.



At least now I know Im not going to buy" the pig in the sack"
must be hard trying to sell that lightwave package in the future to anyone, physical appaerance do matter, no matter what they say about the inner parts that counts:)

Michael

shrox
07-04-2013, 08:14 PM
Luddittes...

Hard to move into the future when it's not got nasty plastic or wasted cardboard to show where you've been.


Kudos, Newtek LW3DG, for the greenest packaging I've seen in a long time: no plastics to breakdown in one's house, assisting in death; no boxes to cart around the next time one moves; and mostly, you can give the coders more green, or hire another one, and give us the goodness of 12 beyond what all we want.

Would you be happy if you paid $20+ and got a CD that looks like pirate-ware?

Matt
07-04-2013, 08:22 PM
While I understand the nostalgia and 'collectable' nature of having a box to sit alongside previous versions. Times have changed, with high speed internet commonplace, the need to ship boxes around the world, with heavy manuals that are out of date the moment they have been printed is no longer necessary. What matters, ultimately, is the software you are going to use. Many software companies only offer electronic download only.

The backup DVD option is just that, a backup DVD, it was never intended to be a full box with printed manuals.

That said, there is something not right with what you received, it *should* have been a printed DVD inside a printed sleeve, not sure what Cleverbridge have done there, but that is not what we agreed with them, I will check up on this after the holidays.

jasonwestmas
07-04-2013, 08:22 PM
While I am not at all interested in packaging I understand why other people are. There is something to be said for presentation and collectors/hobbyists interests. So you do have a point and I sort of empathize. I hope you get something much better than a lame DVD next time.

prometheus
07-04-2013, 08:44 PM
good to see Matt jump in and state something.

Times might have changed, but as customer I reckon you would like to know what you get, maybe it isnīt stated clearly in the information when buying a physical package as wel?, I donīt understand why it hasnīt been forwarded better of what to expect, with an image of the package or something ..Especially when changing marketing approach.

It just cost to much having dissapointed customers putting up a video on youtube that in no way will help sell lightwave unfortunatly, unless there is a clear mistake and that he didnīt get what he should suspect, then it is a
very bad marketing approach, that costs more in bad reputations and consequently bad sales than the costs of sending proper packages.

If it was a mistake, then no big issues and after correction he can comment that on the youtube video or remove it simply, and no big harm done.
otherwise there is poor market communication between the customer and newtek that needs to be adressed.

Michael

GandB
07-04-2013, 10:25 PM
26 dollars for that? Are they serious? That's embarrassing.

Whether anyone agrees with keeping a physical copy is irrelevant; it's what the OP ordered (in good faith, mind you), for a not-so-insignificant amount. At the very least, he should be refunded the entire amount of the copy and sent a new one; that is actually packaged like they care about their customer (who's obviously supported them in the past). I don't know what else to say, just shaking my head at this point....

mis
07-04-2013, 11:58 PM
Well ime happy to see that you understand why i made this thred and video
Ime not sure what to come of it of if anything Will happen
And ime not sure if even any guy for newtek is Reading this

However some say times has moved on and ofcause they have i understand
But it havent moved anymore then they offer a service for xx $ saying
Yes i would love to pay alittle extra to get somthing alittle extra

Then i dont expect a disk that looks like a pirate disk with no cover and no nothing

I dont know if its the same in the us. But at least now you guys n girls out here
Have a chance to see what value for money Might meen.......

;/


@Matt

"The backup DVD option is just that, a backup DVD, it was never intended to be a full box with printed manuals.

That said, there is something not right with what you received, it *should* have been a printed DVD inside a printed sleeve, not sure what Cleverbridge have done there, but that is not what we agreed with them, I will check up on this after the holidays. "

thanks for stopping by
ime happy to hear that that is NOT what you agreed to with cleverbridge

If you dont mind i would like to hear a follow up ether here or on privet mail....

that would be most apreciated

Oedo 808
07-05-2013, 02:19 AM
While I understand the nostalgia and 'collectable' nature of having a box to sit alongside previous versions. Times have changed, with high speed internet commonplace, the need to ship boxes around the world, with heavy manuals that are out of date the moment they have been printed is no longer necessary. What matters, ultimately, is the software you are going to use. Many software companies only offer electronic download only.

It's a shame but I can understand that there isn't the demand to make having the option viable.

UnCommonGrafx
07-05-2013, 05:38 AM
Would you be happy if you paid $20+ and got a CD that looks like pirate-ware?

I guess you have a point there.

I stand corrected.

As I have gotten at least one of those in my life, yeah, I was 'bent' about it.

Watching the vid didn't sell me; thinking about finding that disk in a year did.

mis
07-05-2013, 05:46 AM
uncommongrafx i didnt make the video to sell anything i made it to share my sad experience
so others could see what they aparently might expect when paying extra in hope of getting somthing
alittle extra in 2013

digitaldoc
07-05-2013, 06:28 AM
I am sorry about the poor quality of the delivery package you received with your Lightwave 11.5 disc.

Interestingly, I tried to burn a DVD last night and went to open Adobe Encore CC and found that it had been discontinued because "nobody burns media anymore to disc!"

I guess they forgot to tell us.

Best wishes in your 3D endeavors.

Cheers!

JamesCurtis
07-05-2013, 07:15 AM
When I ordered LW11, I got a physical box with it! Of course, I was a Charter Member from the "Core" days, so that may have had something to do with it [or not]. But I do agree, that sending a CD like that is simply horrible.

digitaldoc
07-05-2013, 09:02 AM
It seems like if you were buying LW 11.5 as your first version of LW 11, you might get the cool box shipped with 11.0.

bobakabob
07-05-2013, 10:14 AM
you do by your own admission!...hello!

and it's not for friends and family..it's for YOU...that why they are on that shelf right?

It's called "irony", oh well never mind :)

mis
07-05-2013, 11:32 AM
James i am Also charter member from the coredays where if i remember correct Also payed extra to become a part of that show

JamesCurtis
07-05-2013, 01:33 PM
Yeah, I guess I did buy 11.0 and just did a download of the 11.02, 11.5, and 11.5.1 update versions. Never did a CD update purchase. I do believe you should have gotten more than you did - at least a real production disc.

Megalodon2.0
07-05-2013, 02:26 PM
I recall asking if they had physical media when I upgraded to LW11. At the time they did not.

I guess it's just as well because if I'd received what mis did I would be JUST as annoyed.

It may be "the future," but some of us STILL like an actual box. Not all of us have "moved on" and some would like to get what we pay for. Mis did NOT get what he paid for. Hopefully Matt can sort it out and get mis a decent replacement.

hazmat777
07-05-2013, 03:11 PM
Like my genius brother likes to say, "I don't know where it is RIGHT NOW, but it's here somewhere". That's part of the reason I still shoot film. You can be almost as sloppy as humanly possible (me) but eventually you'll come across the ORIGINALS. They don't poof out of existence with a camera/software companies whim to no longer support something and force an upgrade.

JonW
07-05-2013, 04:20 PM
I live in an apartment. Space is at a serious premium, computer stuff is (has) taking over. I have more in volume of boxes, cables & spare bits than computers. I’m really careful with what I buy.

I’m also one of the very few slaves in our block of units who is bothered to drag the half dozen 240ltr garbage bins out every week. Plus some or the elderly ladies if they beat me to it. The younger fit men are too lazy!

The amount of resources which go into packing which is ultimately chucked out is tragic. I see it all, residents buy a new gadget & throw out a pile of packaging. Supermarket, hardware & software packaging. Over 2 decades in the same building package waste has grown enormously. Packaging must be reduced and where possible simply stopped.

The uncivilised original peoples of the world use to think 7 generations ahead. Our civilised societies give all the appearances of not caring about our grandchildrens' future.

We have to cut back our pointless consuming starting with pointless packaging (& wasted fuel).



I leave the LW install on all the computers for Screamernet. If any computer dies I have plenty of spare copies.

jwiede
07-05-2013, 05:51 PM
I live in an apartment. Space is at a serious premium, computer stuff is (has) taking over. I have more in volume of boxes, cables & spare bits than computers. I’m really careful with what I buy.

I’m also one of the very few slaves in our block of units who is bothered to drag the half dozen 240ltr garbage bins out every week. Plus some or the elderly ladies if they beat me to it. The younger fit men are too lazy!

The amount of resources which go into packing which is ultimately chucked out is tragic. I see it all, residents buy a new gadget & throw out a pile of packaging. Supermarket, hardware & software packaging. Over 2 decades in the same building package waste has grown enormously. Packaging must be reduced and where possible simply stopped.

The uncivilised original peoples of the world used to think 7 generations ahead. Our civilised societies give all the appearances of not caring about our grandchildrens' future.

We have to cut back our pointless consuming starting with pointless packaging (& wasted fuel).

Sorry, but none of the above has any relevance for someone deliberately purchasing physical/archival media. What he received was not up to a reasonable quality standard and/or was shipped without adequate protection. That's the problem here. That it was also the first transaction he received w.r.t. his v11 purchase only worsens the situation.

Just because other companies no longer go as far to make customers feel special does NOT mean Newtek has the same luxury w.r.t. LW customers.

fazi69
07-05-2013, 07:10 PM
115424

JonW
07-05-2013, 07:15 PM
I will go on strike putting the bins out!

Megalodon2.0
07-05-2013, 07:20 PM
115424
Looks like LW 12 is gonna be BIG!

DrStrik9
07-05-2013, 08:26 PM
115424

Hilarious! :D

shrox
07-05-2013, 09:18 PM
115424

Does the little girl come with tutorials?

JonW
07-05-2013, 09:40 PM
It is the Poser bundle!

mis
07-06-2013, 01:28 AM
Fazi thats SOOO sweet of you

YOU BROUGHT a SMILE on my face today
and i thank you for that

now THATS a package :)

Greenlaw
07-06-2013, 02:23 AM
Yes but who could possibly lift the printed manual that comes with that box? :)

G.

hrgiger
07-06-2013, 02:59 AM
I don't want a child with my LW 12. Can I pay extra not to receive one?

zarti
07-06-2013, 05:44 AM
look at the calendar . we are in the middle of 2013 .. so

> im against printing and even against CD / DVD from software makers as tools to distribute their products !

from the other side of the rope 'we are pulling' , for sure , there will be some trees falling and other natural resources being consumed for what ??

.. for digital impulses ( !! ? )

the impact in nature of this company could be almost uncountable , but into my eyes it a matter of " Conscience " .

and this can have only good repercussions , im sure .



i wd be curious to see some facts from NT itself and its community here about few things :

> number of stock boxes and dvd-s produced but not delivered ?

> the amount of lost money ?

> about those delivered but thrown for various reasons by consumers ?

> amount of money ( portion of it ) spent by consumers ( if that was included in final product ) ?


from the other side there are companies who offered always their products this way .

so it works .

it works even for people who are 'emotionally linked' to their products .

forgot to ad that this works wonderfully with continuous updates / fixes / dot-versions / etcetera ..

--

im personally not against absolutely-not-materializing 'etheric products' . no .

from the other side , i can go further to suggest that if someone is 'so connected with lightwave' ,

it might be a good idea to ask to NT for buying :

desks , chairs , dashboards , keyboards , etc . which were used in "sleepless night to develop LW" .

the emotionalo-financial-pleasure wd be greatly amplified for parts involved , but limitied only to them .

--

anyway my suggestion to NT wd be :

to design and make available for download ready to print files ;

several packing / branding / historical posters / event-pics / etc , available for those who want to 'materialize' those themselves , at their own cost .




feel free to take me wrong .

.cheers

prometheus
07-06-2013, 06:01 AM
Sounds pretty simple to me going a route like this potentianally advertize...

"We do no longer provide physical copies in form of dvd or product encasement, this is due to be more economical for us as a company and economical in the Green way to avoid the stress
upon natural resources, and we do support such sustainable production methods that avoids exploitation of nature, thus we do have changed to ways to deliver our software.
Should you still prefer to have a physical copy, we can send you one in a very simple and small format encasement produced with recycled paper encasement with the lowest cost for production, and it will look like this, for the additional cost of.$.."

Just as long as everyone is clear on what to expect, then I donīt see any troubles ahead, and marketing it properly in such way that it in fact gives the company a credit as a "Green company" might serve well too, along with newtek
doing everything else they can to be a Green company:) not just as a market trick.

Michael

GandB
07-06-2013, 09:22 AM
Again; this debate is great and all, and I agree with most of you, but the fact remains....he PAID for a physical copy and the packaging was insufficient, to say the least.

Matt
07-06-2013, 06:33 PM
Just because other companies no longer go as far to make customers feel special does NOT mean Newtek has the same luxury w.r.t. LW customers.

Except that's not the reason for why we went to a digital only distribution model, and not the reason other companies have either.

digitaldoc
07-06-2013, 06:50 PM
115424

Maybe the "Revolution" Marketing campaign refers to software boxes we can live in!

scallahan1
07-06-2013, 06:53 PM
Maybe the "Revolution" Marketing campaign refers to software boxes we can live in!

With instanced shingles on the roof. Now that's flocking funny. :)

jwiede
07-06-2013, 09:35 PM
*sigh* No point in bothering.

GandB
07-06-2013, 11:10 PM
It is sad jwiede....

jasonwestmas
07-08-2013, 10:00 AM
Presentation is important. . .still. . .and that's all I have to say about that.

robpowers3d
07-09-2013, 11:19 AM
I wanted to mention here that as Matt has stated this is not how our DVD product is supposed to be mailed out. It is supposed to arrive inside of a nice LightWave product DVD cardboard sleeve inside of that white envelope. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are looking into this and want to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

As for the overall trend away from shipping large product boxes for software...Although I think we all hold a special place in our heart for the classic boxes the reality is that it introduced several problems for software distribution including very high shipping costs and just as important it introduced the challenge of outdated versions of the software being distributed long after they should be retired. That left the customer having to try to track down the latest update. One big benefit of the digital distribution model is that you always have access to the latest version in your account as well as the entire history of products that you have purchased from us.

After all as Matt has pointed out our focus really is on providing you with the best software possible and I think the digital distribution system that we have put in place has vastly improved the customer experience with LightWave over the prior system that often caused delays in registration and licensing and also had real bandwidth limitations when we released an update.

You haven't heard of the servers going down when we released an update since we implemented the new digital distribution infrastructure and all of these things are related to improving customer access to the product.

So realizing that although the industry has moved away from shipping huge product boxes and toward a digital distribution model there are also quite a few benefits to this trend.

We all loved the old boxes but that simply doesn't make sense today.

prometheus
07-09-2013, 11:33 AM
Great...thatīs all that needs to be said.

Michael

shrox
07-09-2013, 12:08 PM
I wanted to mention here that as Matt has stated this is not how our DVD product is supposed to be mailed out. It is supposed to arrive inside of a nice LightWave product DVD cardboard sleeve inside of that white envelope. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are looking into this and want to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

As for the overall trend away from shipping large product boxes for software...Although I think we all hold a special place in our heart for the classic boxes the reality is that it introduced several problems for software distribution including very high shipping costs and just as important it introduced the challenge of outdated versions of the software being distributed long after they should be retired. That left the customer having to try to track down the latest update. One big benefit of the digital distribution model is that you always have access to the latest version in your account as well as the entire history of products that you have purchased from us.

After all as Matt has pointed out our focus really is on providing you with the best software possible and I think the digital distribution system that we have put in place has vastly improved the customer experience with LightWave over the prior system that often caused delays in registration and licensing and also had real bandwidth limitations when we released an update.

You haven't heard of the servers going down when we released an update since we implemented the new digital distribution infrastructure and all of these things are related to improving customer access to the product.

So realizing that although the industry has moved away from shipping huge product boxes and toward a digital distribution model there are also quite a few benefits to this trend.

We all loved the old boxes but that simply doesn't make sense today.

How many other forums get the PRESIDENT of the company posting himself?! Newtek rocks.

mis
07-09-2013, 01:55 PM
Ofcause i am hohnered that rob drops by to shead some lights on this topic
And ofcause i jnderstand where the future is going In the digital world
But i wonder if that is the future of newtek why do you as it is now have
The choice to recive media if i need to pay that forgetting is equal to a 2$ burned pirate version
Of a dvd ......

Shouldnt that service have been removed entirely from the upgrade program
By now

OnlineRender
07-09-2013, 02:19 PM
ta da ... :P Mis drop me a pm or skype with you address and Ill burn a copy of Lightwave onto a lightwiki USB card if not print this out :P

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6051f42946fe33114cbb43beae079932/tumblr_mporg9S9kX1rvbhboo1_500.png

mis
07-09-2013, 02:55 PM
Hey onlinerender Nice of you to support
But i Will survive and my mood Will rize to
Normal state again. I just had higher expextations
Based of what i normaly recive from newtek.
In the years i have been supportive

I just love lightwave wich is Also why i have lw
Tshirts and make loads of free tutorial videos to help
Others to great joy with this product
Same reason i made the Nice lightwave glass Keychain
I showed you ealyer

Lw is a part of mé. Has been since the amiga days

Matt
07-09-2013, 02:58 PM
But i wonder if that is the future of newtek why do you as it is now have
The choice to recive media if i need to pay that forgetting is equal to a 2$ burned pirate version
Of a dvd ......

Shouldnt that service have been removed entirely from the upgrade program
By now

Some people requested it, and it is entirely optional (and unchecked by default) you don't have to get the backup DVD.

Also, the image does actually show what it looks like.

mis
07-09-2013, 03:16 PM
What image ? The one onlinerender posted ?
Thats what it should have been wrapped In ?

Dexter2999
07-09-2013, 04:25 PM
What image ? The one onlinerender posted ?
Thats what it should have been wrapped In ?

The image here, https://www.lightwave3d.com/buy/

JonW
07-09-2013, 05:36 PM
Various companies in Australia are not only charging more for their physical products and services. They also charge a couple of dollars for each of the monthly and quarterly statements if they send it in a paper format.

mis
07-10-2013, 12:50 AM
Well what i see on the page is a Real plastic dvd cover with logo and all
Am i Right ?
Tjats simular to what i Got with 8 and 9 ;)

Dexter2999
07-10-2013, 01:28 AM
What I see is a DVD cover. I can't attest to if it is plastic or cardboard. In any event, Rob said you were supposed to have a disk shipped in a cover (specifically "sleeve" not "case") and he said that what you received is not what is intended to ship. I doubt you will get more than that (without making yourself resemble your avatar).

saranine
07-10-2013, 03:20 AM
It seems like if you were buying LW 11.5 as your first version of LW 11, you might get the cool box shipped with 11.0.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ordered a back up copy. I can't wait. lol.

mis
07-10-2013, 03:30 AM
I know. Not trying to make myself an *** and ime not normaly the one
That nags about stuff and i am happy to se that this wasnt what i was
Supposed to get
And ime happy that newtek now is aware of it
As it seems they didnt aprove this

So let this be the end of this post let us hope
That i am the only one with this feeling

Thanks for your opinions and support and thanks to Matt and Rob for looking into this

Over and out

GandB
07-10-2013, 08:26 AM
I don't think he resembles his avatar at all. I heard Rob let us know that it was processed wrong, and what it should have been as well as a long bit about digital versus packaging (which I don't have an issue with, it is the way things are going). I didn't hear anywhere that the OP is going to be taken care of, for the scratched disk and trouble he's gone through. Let's remember; the OP isn't at fault here, he didn't get what he paid for. So I wish people wouldn't paint him out as the bad guy here....he's not.

If they haven't already discussed it; I would suggest NT remove the ability to order a back-up. Or, at the very least, give their contractor an ***-chewing for the screw up. When I get ready to upgrade; I had thought about ordering a backup...as I'm not worried about a single disk taking up too much room in my house, nor about the footprint of a small envelope that I can burn with the campfire.

zarti
07-10-2013, 08:41 AM
..

We all loved the old boxes but that simply doesn't make sense today.

no ! wait =) ,

i have an idea ..

if we respect at least the emotional ( why not somehow historical values ) some users might legitimately have with ' a tool ' , but not limited to that reason .

my suggestion wd be this :

once a version of lightwave has reached a ' perfect state ' , NT can accept individual orders to include that version into a well-designed-special-case .

lets call it .. TimeWave_<major_vers_number>

this package wd benefit and make sense because :

- beside having the most solid build ( crash-proof ) , shoudnt need any SP or updates .
( wd work perfectly immediately with just two moves: 1- pull it from shelf 2- install it )

- its design could be designed and printed with a variety of materials ( wood , plastic , metal , etc. ) .

- its design might include the list of most famous films produced with that version ( as historical testimony ) .

- names of special contributors , events and dedications .

- ( other contextual ideas )

in the end , doing so wd justify additional costs and benefits for both parts involved .



so everyone wd be happy .. esp me which wd get a free LW12 upgrade for giving such a .. brilliant and .. incomparable idea .

no ?!

=}-





.cheers ( from an ex-CORE-fan )

robpowers3d
07-10-2013, 10:56 AM
I have an update on this. It seems that what happened here is that the German office that services the EU customers did not have the proper DVD cardboard sleeve that is supposed to be placed inside of the outer white shipping envelope. This has been remedied now and this should not happen again. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Also, Of course Mis will be taken care of and we will ensure that he will receive the proper product and a replacement disk. :)

mis
07-10-2013, 11:05 AM
Thanks for looking into this Rob

GandB
07-10-2013, 11:45 AM
Very nice Rob; thanks for taking care of this personally. ;)

shrox
07-10-2013, 11:49 AM
Nice.

jwiede
07-11-2013, 12:22 AM
Also, Of course Mis will be taken care of and we will ensure that he will receive the proper product and a replacement disk. :)

Thanks Rob, while I'm guessing y'all felt that was obviously implied, explicitly stating that part provides an unambiguous closure to this issue.

robpowers3d
07-11-2013, 12:48 PM
Yes and you can be certain that we have taken steps to prevent this from happening in the future. The way our products are presented is very important to us and I personally spent a lot of time to work on the design of the custom sleeve for our DVD with our brilliant and talented designer Johanna Roussel and to learn that our product was being sent out in this manner was frustrating for me. We should have this issue solved now and thanks again for bringing this to our attention.

mis
08-02-2013, 03:24 AM
Hey Rob

Would you be so kind and reply on my email / message

Its been 3 weeks and i still havent seen anything from you.

best regards

mis

robpowers3d
08-02-2013, 12:05 PM
I've just replied to your email. Please realize that after the show the show team has taken a short break for a few days. I"ve request that Cleverbrigde resend your DVD and your T-Shirt will be mailed out next week.


Hey Rob

Would you be so kind and reply on my email / message

Its been 3 weeks and i still havent seen anything from you.

best regards

mis

mis
08-02-2013, 02:10 PM
Thanks , yes i know you have been busy do to siggi

Riff_Masteroff
08-02-2013, 02:15 PM
I threw away my gallon pail of paint . . . . software 'box' for fractal design painter

Steve Worley used to include little plastic bugs in his software packaging

I would suggest a 'pop goes the weasel' boxing for NT. You crank the handle over and over and eventually a monster (on a spring) pops out and scares you

rwhunt99
08-04-2013, 10:20 AM
I think, for myself anyway, why the huge extra cost when it comes in what for all practical purposes like a brown paper bag? For the price difference alone, you would expect a professionally done DVD, after all, it is a graphics company at the end of the day
Perhaps I should get into the business of sending My designer DVD's through the mail as the software comes as a free download anyway and you simply plug in your license and you are god to go.

mis
08-23-2013, 12:14 PM
Well ime back and i just wanna say that i now have recived a new replacement dvd + alittle complimentry package
and even thoug for the price its not a fancy dvd package but a smaller sleve
ime happy that i now got a dvd that is not scratched beond recognition :)

so Thanks to Rob Powers for stepping in and pulling some strings here

You bring a smile on my face ......

Over and out

Lightwave Lover Mis

shrox
08-23-2013, 12:42 PM
... + alittle complimentry package...

Oh, do tell.

wyattharris
08-23-2013, 12:57 PM
Good news on a Friday. Can't beat that.