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3dWannabe
07-03-2013, 09:53 PM
Could the developers please try this?

The 3DConnexion trainer has an 'all active' tab.

In this, you can position a teapot object using all axis (just as we should be able to in Modeler and Layout).

Play with this for a bit.

It works identically to how the 3DConnexion puck is handled in 3d Coat, 3ds Max, etc.

Now, try a teapot or any other non-symmetrical object in Modeler (note, I've added a minus sign in front of all the scales in Modeler).

Pulling the puck towards you, which should pull the object towards you, doesn't really work.

To move the object towards you, you have to pull 'up' on the puck.

You can keep the 3DConnexion trainer window open and observe how LW handles it and how the trainer handles the same movements.

Modeler is actually much better implemented than Layout. I can get by in Modeler even though it doesn't match how all the other apps work.

But in Layout, it's as if you've had 10 tequila shots ... you're very drunk and lacking co-ordination.

If you change from 'View' to 'current item', things start moving backwards. You have to remove the minus sign from certain scales.

Having an optional keyboard shortcut to toggle add/remove minus sign from scale would really help.

But, please ... just play with the 3dConnexion Trainer, notice how it's supposed to work, and make this happen in LW?

It will be immediately obvious how much differently this works in the Trainer than how the LW implementation works.

It's gotten better, it's improved (thanks a lot!!!), but ... why not make it work as it should?

Strider_X
07-05-2013, 12:13 PM
I Agree 100%

It's set as if some one has the 3DConnexion controller sitting on top of a Cintiq looking down at your desktop instead some one sitting in a chair looking forward.

lardbros
07-31-2013, 12:44 PM
Totally agree... and sorry for starting a new thread 3d Wannabe, I never saw this one!

:D
Thanks for backing me up in my thread too! :D

3dWannabe
07-31-2013, 01:02 PM
Totally agree... and sorry for starting a new thread 3d Wannabe, I never saw this one!

:D
Thanks for backing me up in my thread too! :D
No worries! We're all just trying to make LW the best it can be. I'll add a link to your thread here as it contains different information than mine.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?136784-3dConnexion-Users-how-can-we-make-LightWave-support-even-better

sculptactive
07-31-2013, 01:54 PM
And if they cannot fix it in LW lets hope they implement it right in ChronoSculpt.

drcola
09-21-2013, 12:23 PM
Hi all. I just bought my SpaceNavigator and am seeing what you mean.

However, I have a quick question about a related topic.

In layout, the 11.5 manual (pg 108-bottom 3rd) for studio tools states there is a new submenu simplifying the addition of 3DConnex devices. Further reading indicates a python script needs to be edited and loaded and such (as is, the only existing scripts are for the PS3).

So, NOW the question! Is such a script available for download to any of us whom have tried and have little idea what to do (with Python scripting). I just want to get this working!

Please NewTek would you set up a script for a 3DConnexion device that is PICTURED on the opening pages of the manual? That suggests that it will work "out of the box". It does not (yet?).

Please help if you can. I appreciate everyone's time.

3dWannabe
09-21-2013, 07:45 PM
Hi all. I just bought my SpaceNavigator and am seeing what you mean.

However, I have a quick question about a related topic.

In layout, the 11.5 manual (pg 108-bottom 3rd) for studio tools states there is a new submenu simplifying the addition of 3DConnex devices. Further reading indicates a python script needs to be edited and loaded and such (as is, the only existing scripts are for the PS3).

So, NOW the question! Is such a script available for download to any of us whom have tried and have little idea what to do (with Python scripting). I just want to get this working!

Please NewTek would you set up a script for a 3DConnexion device that is PICTURED on the opening pages of the manual? That suggests that it will work "out of the box". It does not (yet?).

Please help if you can. I appreciate everyone's time.
It's not that the SpaceNavigator doesn't work at all (that's what I own), it's that it works very poorly and not as intended.

You don't need a python script to get it to 'work' but ...

When in modeler, if you move the puck towards you and the model doesn't move towards you, you actually have to move the puck 'up' to get it to move towards you (very awkward).

I do change the scale (add or remove a minus sign), because depending on the mode you are in, everything will move backwards (in some modes) if you don't.

And just try to navigate a teapot (as the 3DConnexion trainer uses), and you'd notice how absolutely hard it is in Lightwave. Sometimes you just can't get there from here, very frustrating. Note: you can run both at once, and see how badly Lightwave screws up the motions.

I've given up on using it, but I had contact with a manager, so I'm hopeful that someone will realize how it's supposed to work, and fix it.

If the single developer at 3D-Coat can implement a perfect version, if the evil AutoDesk empire can implement it for 3dsMax, Maya, Mudbox, MotionBuilder, etc - I'm sure the Lightwave developers can also.

They just need to make it a priority and take the time to understand that it's not a mouse, and it's designed to work exactly the same way in any application (that's the whole point of it).

They need to play with the 3DConnexion trainer to fully understand how it should work, and take into account that when we're in Light view, or camera view, etc., that the motions must change appropriately.

Give the ability to those who for some reason want the camera to go down when you pull the puck up if you wish, but ... at least make it easy to switch it back to 'normal' mode with a hot key.

Ever hopeful - as it has improved since the previous version.

dwburman
09-22-2013, 12:34 AM
I don't have my computer in front of me, and I'm not suggesting that the LightWave implementation shouldn't be improved, but does the 3dconexxion driver software have the ability to adjust the way it works on an app by app basis via some kind of profile preset system? Could that (if it indeed exists) be a short term solution?

sami
09-22-2013, 01:43 AM
I don't have my computer in front of me, and I'm not suggesting that the LightWave implementation shouldn't be improved, but does the 3dconexxion driver software have the ability to adjust the way it works on an app by app basis via some kind of profile preset system? Could that (if it indeed exists) be a short term solution?

the version of the driver I have does allow this to some extent and this is how I was able to get the Spacepilot pro to navigate Ogre Meshy in 3D, but it doesn't work for Layout or Modeler since there is some kind of "native support" for 3D connexion in LW which overrides everything, but it's very badly implemented. This makes the device unusable in LW. Plus LW's nav panel has no way to tweak sensitivity or lock channels or set up buttons on it to be commands/views etc

There is a BIG difference in whether the device connects to the host and does something (i.e. "works") and whether it is usable and implemented in a *standard* way that the device is implemented in all other apps. This is why programmers need interaction designers (though this is really something a tester could have caught as no new interactions need be fleshed out - just make it work like everybody else in the world does).


This desperately needs a fix from NT - just make a quick build with no other features, just a hotfix is all we need. I end up using the device for all other media apps and then have to switch back to mouse & keyboard when using LW... sigh

lardbros
09-22-2013, 08:37 AM
the version of the driver I have does allow this to some extent and this is how I was able to get the Spacepilot pro to navigate Ogre Meshy in 3D, but it doesn't work for Layout or Modeler since there is some kind of "native support" for 3D connexion in LW which overrides everything, but it's very badly implemented. This makes the device unusable in LW. Plus LW's nav panel has no way to tweak sensitivity or lock channels or set up buttons on it to be commands/views etc

There is a BIG difference in whether the device connects to the host and does something (i.e. "works") and whether it is usable and implemented in a *standard* way that the device is implemented in all other apps. This is why programmers need interaction designers (though this is really something a tester could have caught as no new interactions need be fleshed out - just make it work like everybody else in the world does).


This desperately needs a fix from NT - just make a quick build with no other features, just a hotfix is all we need. I end up using the device for all other media apps and then have to switch back to mouse & keyboard when using LW... sigh

Exactly right... and this is what I've found with Newtek's implementation... needs proper driver support, for all shortcut buttons etc. Not working very well for me, especially after using it in 3ds max all day every day! I've mentioned this to the director of marketing at 3dconnexion, just to make sure they know too!

LMUSIC
09-26-2013, 12:49 AM
+1E10 to everything here.

lardbros
09-28-2013, 04:29 AM
Here's my fogbugz report... complete with video detailing what i believe is wrong, or not very polished! I know it's irritating to download, as it's in 4 bits I think... but if you get a chance, please check it out!

https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?50225_6gadjoe031ljdvdp

sculptactive
09-28-2013, 04:50 AM
Here's my fogbugz report... complete with video detailing what i believe is wrong, or not very polished! I know it's irritating to download, as it's in 4 bits I think... but if you get a chance, please check it out!

https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?50225_6gadjoe031ljdvdp


Great that to have made a report, but the file links do not work at least I could not get them to work, I just get an error message on your site.

3dWannabe
09-28-2013, 11:13 AM
Here's my fogbugz report... complete with video detailing what i believe is wrong, or not very polished! I know it's irritating to download, as it's in 4 bits I think... but if you get a chance, please check it out!

https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?50225_6gadjoe031ljdvdp
All of the threads of the 3dConnexion post are dated 2012 with the video showing a date of Nov 4 2012. Are the incorrect dates a FogBugz issues (a bug in the bug system)?

You might want to just upload it to YouTube as an unlisted video where you'll need the exact link to open it. The more steps tech support has to go thru to view your video, probably the less likely they will do so.

BTW - in modeler, can you get 'up' or forward or back to work?

When I pull 'up' in perspective, instead of moving the model up it moves it towards me. To go 'up' I have to flip the model so it's facing me, and then 'up' moves it towards me which is now 'up' on the model.

And moving forward (away from me) or back (towards me) doesn't really work at all properly.

If I move the puck towards me, the model goes away from me. If I move the puck away from me the model goes away from me even faster.

These issues are so easy to demonstrate and the beauty of the 3dConnexion system is there is an example program to show you exactly how it should work.

If we can just get anyone in LW development to open the '3d Mouse Home' from the start menu, and then click on the 'Trainer' icon, and them go to the 'all active' tab.

Let them play with controlling the teapot, testing forward, backward, up, etc. - all the different operations allowed.

Then, open a teapot in LW and try to control it in perspective with the puck while observing the teapot in the trainer.

If they don't move the same way, if some operations just don't work at all, it will be immediately obvious.

Maybe narrate a video showing this? It would probably be better if it came from someone other than me as they got very angry a few years back when I sad they don't understand how it works (which they don't).

There's just no place for hubris in software development - we all have the same goal, for LW to be the best it can be.

Currently, at least in this one area, it's a disaster - and new potential users who look at LW and try to use it with their puck will be disgusted and assume that the entire LW system is poorly written (costing potential revenue $$ that could be used for the salaries of the development team).

And we all know that's just not true, or we wouldn't be using LW.

lardbros
09-29-2013, 03:35 PM
You're right... I'll post it up on YouTube tomorrow evening! The links used to work, and the dates were correct... I posted the bug report nearly a year ago unfortunately! I'll double check the links... And also get it up on YouTube... Thanks for pointing it out!

In modeller the puck works in two different ways for me.

If you uncheck the zoom in perspective button, it works badly but pulling the puck upwards will move the view up. With zoom in perspective, pulling the puck up will zoom I think. Still... This is bad, and not the way it should be!

lardbros
10-02-2013, 01:51 PM
Okay gang... here's my video up on YouTube.

Apologies for my dry sounding voice, I had a sore throat! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpZf1Ovf0xg&feature=youtu.be

coes76
10-03-2013, 12:58 PM
Hi.
I'm trying to use the 3d Mouse with Virtual Studio but in the new version LW11.6 in the Device Manager I can not select the Device the HID is unavailable.
117467

In the LW 10 it works ok.

How can I available the HID in the LW 11.6 ?

Regards,
Cesar.