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Galleddrim
07-03-2013, 01:44 PM
Hello, all! I am trying to build a sort of 3D honeycomb grid in Lightwave, and it's giving me fits. It seemed simple enough at first. I created the paths for the grid in Adobe Illustrator, and thought I'd just import the EPS and extrude. But activating the Auto Axis Drill on import (so that I can get the honeycomb holes in the object) causes Modeler to freeze. So I imported the grid in reverse and thought I could either boolean subtract it from a box object or drill it down into a plane and then extrude that. BUT . . . both of those also cause Modeler to freeze.

I am at a loss. What's the best way to do this? I am trying to get this preliminary animation completed this week (not working on the 4th), and this is the last model element that I need. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

I've attached both versions of the EPS below.
115357

JoePoe
07-03-2013, 01:58 PM
What is the final shape of honeycomb (might help determine the starting point) ..... flat plane, sphere etc....?

If flat(ish) to start, create one cell (6 sided disc) and clone or array.
Once you have your grid of cells use multishift (with group polys UNchecked and create new surface (just to be safe).

After the multishift you should be able to delete the remaining selected polys. If you lose the selection .... redo the shift OR select by surface name (will be the original/default) and delete.

Galleddrim
07-03-2013, 02:30 PM
What is the final shape of honeycomb (might help determine the starting point) ..... flat plane, sphere etc....?

Well, the idea is to have a sort of screen with a bit of thickness to it, with the honeycomb shaped holes in it. Hence the boolean subtraction. I just tried using an array instead of an imported EPS, and that did not do any better. Modeler freezes.

shrox
07-03-2013, 02:46 PM
It's very simple.

Make a triangle, subdivide it three or four times, merge groups of six triangles into hexagons, bevel offset in a bit, then bevel shift.

JoePoe
07-03-2013, 03:10 PM
:D just looked at your eps's..... it's going to be a pretty dense mesh no matter how you do it (Well, at least for me/my machine....and apparently for yours too :) )

But it still seemed to do fine. The initial array was swallowed up nicely, ....the thickening took a couple of minutes.

Anyway here ya go..... I did it so you might as well have it. Prob not at the scale you want, but I'll leave that up to u. :beerchug:

(had to break it into 2 objects because the forum wouldn't let me post the file size with all in one)

Honey1
Layers:
1) one cell with knock out
2) flat array 100x100
3) one cell with polys merged (after I realized how dense things were going to be)

Honey2
1) layer 3 arrayed and with thickness. 91,000 polys.

JoePoe
07-03-2013, 03:22 PM
Does this really need to be all geometry??

How about a much more simple grid and using the negative line trick for your thickness.
or
A surface treatment even.

JoePoe
07-03-2013, 03:39 PM
Here is the smallest possible grid.... 10K polys (100x100), with negative line trick.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115363&d=1372887493

Galleddrim
07-03-2013, 05:23 PM
Wow, thanks! The flat array looks great. Makes sense to do it that way. I am not really familiar with the negative line trick, so I will have to check that out too. Sounds like it would save on render time. Really appreciate it!

Galleddrim
07-03-2013, 07:57 PM
Thought I'd post what I used the grid for, just FYI. Thanks again for all the help! Ended up that I did need the geometry because I need perspective in the lines. Still a work in progress. Will get a few more elements dropped in and animated in the next couple of weeks.

JoePoe
07-03-2013, 09:54 PM
Oooooh, intriguing!! I have no idea what that is, but I want to touch it. :)

FYI: negative line thing=super easy!! And yes it saves on render times, but for me it's more about the ease of object manipulation. But you're dealing with vol lights so those are both the least of your worries. :hey:

Anyway, just bring in a simple mesh (like below.... for this you don't even need the cutout), and in surface panel > advanced tab check render outlines and give it a negative value that works with your scale (2nd below). All other surface attributes still apply. Works with volumetric lights too (3rd). :thumbsup:

(side note: same effect is generated for two point poly geometry under object pops > Edges > Line thickness)

BokadCastle
07-03-2013, 10:26 PM
...just an alternate -
there is a procedural called 'honeycomb'.
this is just a flat surface with transparency - no geometry - 1 sec to render.
I reread your post - you wanted a '3d honeycomb'.
Mine is 2D, but the neg line trick might still have work - sorry I threw away the scene before I thought of that. :hey:

JoePoe
07-03-2013, 10:36 PM
As long as we are throwing out alternatives.... :)
I used the honeycomb procedural not to long ago to do a geometry displacement. Talk about a LOT of polys! (now that I think about it maybe it was a repaeting image map).
Anyway, lots of ways to the finish line. :hey:

dwburman
07-04-2013, 12:43 AM
Since we are listing possible solutions, a variation on BokadCastle suggestion would be to stack a bunch of textured polys close enough together so they like they have thickness in the same way a magazine or book has thickness even though it is made up of thin sheets of paper. Ofc paper does have thickness and polys do not, so it won't work in all instances.

on my phone atm so I cannot see the pic of what you're making so I don't know I'd this applies or not. :)

prometheus
07-04-2013, 01:02 AM
I would probably go for creating a disc in top view, 6 sides, flat 50x50cm radius(default setting).

Center it "f2"
clone it once in x axis..(in top viewclone value offset for x value 86.6028 cm)

clone it once in z axis..(in top view clone value for z 1,5 m)

merge the gap polygon by selecting the points and hit p for create poly, then you should have enough to clone
the whole pattern in both axis, but you need to have different offset cloning value, 1,5 for z and 86.6028 cm for x axis.

then merge points, and then bevel in a little, with create new surface called delete, when you select one poly of that surface, you
can then go to selection and select entire surface..then delete those, then just extrude the geometry to give thickness.

Attached is image of attached obj file ..so you can try and clone it with the values I mentioned.

Michael

BokadCastle
07-04-2013, 06:31 PM
....so I just added bump to my method - to get 3D look.
- still no geometry - quick render.

shrox
07-04-2013, 06:41 PM
I would probably go for creating a disc in top view, 6 sides, flat 50x50cm radius(default setting).

Center it "f2"
clone it once in x axis..(in top viewclone value offset for x value 86.6028 cm)

clone it once in z axis..(in top view clone value for z 1,5 m)

merge the gap polygon by selecting the points and hit p for create poly, then you should have enough to clone
the whole pattern in both axis, but you need to have different offset cloning value, 1,5 for z and 86.6028 cm for x axis.

then merge points, and then bevel in a little, with create new surface called delete, when you select one poly of that surface, you
can then go to selection and select entire surface..then delete those, then just extrude the geometry to give thickness.

Attached is image of attached obj file ..so you can try and clone it with the values I mentioned.

Michael

That's pretty much what I said, but it's too simple and old school I guess...

prometheus
07-04-2013, 08:53 PM
- - - Updated - - -


That's pretty much what I said, but it's too simple and old school I guess...

uhmm..yeah I looked in to yourīs ..but I didnīt get anything out of it unfortunatly with triangles and subdividing it 3 or four times? :)
Had no clue either to begin with..since I havenīt done that before, but thought it was best to create the actual honeycomb geometry without workarounds, that is create the six sides at once with the disc tool.
then just a matter of figuring out offset clone by measuring the geometry, then just clone it just enough times in order to get a pattern that can be repeated along both axis.
similar approach anyway I guess .

Michael

dwburman
07-04-2013, 10:07 PM
I finally looked at the reference image now that I'm using a real browser on a 'real' computer. :)

Since the surface is flat, you could probably just make one cell (or a set a cells and boolean a square section out) and use instancing in Layout to place as many as you need in a rectangular array?

Galleddrim
07-04-2013, 10:44 PM
I finally looked at the reference image now that I'm using a real browser on a 'real' computer. :)

Since the surface is flat, you could probably just make one cell (or a set a cells and boolean a square section out) and use instancing in Layout to place as many as you need in a rectangular array?

Oooohhhh . . . instancing! There's an idea. I might have to try that. If I have time to try it out. Want to get to animating phase this week.

I decided against the negative line trick because it keeps the line a constant thickness in pixels no matter how far from the camera. So in perspective, the lines look much thicker the further away from the camera that it gets because it's the same pixel thickness.

This is for a client in England, my first paying 3D animation job! I will post the final animation when I am finished with it.

JoePoe
07-05-2013, 08:33 AM
....I decided against the negative line trick because it keeps the line a constant thickness in pixels no matter how far from the camera. So in perspective, the lines look much thicker the further away from the camera that it gets because it's the same pixel thickness.

This has definitely changed in 11.5.
Perhaps the lines respecting distance only works with negative line values in the 2 point poly version of geometry (the setting can be found under: object properties > edges > line thickness).

So, if you're in 11.5 (since you joined recently seems like a safe bet :)) negative line is still an option.
btw, I think the only drawback with this method is that the lines will always be represented as "tubes"..... may not be exactly what you want.

Anyway, give this a try..... (if u want).

Galleddrim
07-05-2013, 09:36 AM
This has definitely changed in 11.5.
Perhaps the lines respecting distance only works with negative line values in the 2 point poly version of geometry (the setting can be found under: object properties > edges > line thickness).

So, if you're in 11.5 (since you joined recently seems like a safe bet :)) negative line is still an option.
btw, I think the only drawback with this method is that the lines will always be represented as "tubes"..... may not be exactly what you want.

Anyway, give this a try..... (if u want).

Thanks again, JoePoe. Really appreciate all the help. Interesting that you can have variable line thickness in 11.5 now. I think for this, I am definitely liking the geometry look, so I'll go with that. But I'll keep the negative line trick in mind in the future. I cut the honeycomb mesh down to just a few cells and used an instance array in Layout, and that seems to work great for this. I love how I can just expand or contract the extent of the grid without having to increase geometry in the model file. Should speed things up and be very customizable.

dwburman
07-10-2013, 08:15 PM
Tutorial!


http://youtu.be/WCKdYQcbgI0

http://youtu.be/WCKdYQcbgI0