PDA

View Full Version : Join the Rebellion?



Nicolas Jordan
06-28-2013, 06:51 PM
For those of you who have Facebook check it out. Looks like a new advertising campaign for Lightwave called "JOIN THE REBELLION".

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151515995438806&set=a.412942938805.183376.16090743805&type=1&theater

Snosrap
06-28-2013, 09:30 PM
For those of you who have Facebook check it out. Looks like a new advertising campaign for Lightwave called "JOIN THE REBELLION". In like come and use the only 3D app that is not unified. :)

cresshead
06-29-2013, 12:53 AM
for those whom are not on facebook

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q71/s720x720/1451_10151515995438806_2139896573_n.jpg

Skonk
06-29-2013, 06:45 AM
Smells like another core fiasco to me.....

Netvudu
06-29-2013, 07:53 AM
I think itīs simply another way to market the software. With fewer and fewer products not depending on Autodesk, it certainly sounds like being the Rebels

Ryan Roye
06-29-2013, 08:23 AM
Got my copy :D

http://www.delura.tanadrine.com/image_autoupload/LWL2.jpg

Waves of light
06-29-2013, 10:45 AM
My eye is drawn to that crazy E on the The and Rebellion.... What you up to LW3DG? Will this be another 4 days of watching the live Siggraph streams like last year?

DrStrik9
06-29-2013, 10:59 AM
It's good to see Newtek so involved in promoting Lightwave. The "rebellion" idea is a creative attempt to position LW as a viable alternative to other software, which I think is smart. Personally, I don't get the logo thingy at all though.

OnlineRender
06-29-2013, 05:28 PM
I like it might just get that inked

COBRASoft
06-29-2013, 06:57 PM
I think that 'e' is normal in that font. Like in the 'Neuropol' font.

wesleycorgi
06-29-2013, 07:35 PM
New shirts? I'll be in Anaheim!

jwiede
06-29-2013, 11:55 PM
In like come and use the only 3D app that is not unified. :)

So then the rebellion is against convenience? :devil:

DrStrik9
06-29-2013, 11:57 PM
Do rebellions ever consider convenience? :D

Waves of light
06-30-2013, 03:58 AM
I think that 'e' is normal in that font. Like in the 'Neuropol' font.

Good spot.

Surrealist.
06-30-2013, 07:51 AM
Cool logo. Cool concept.

Lewis
06-30-2013, 01:36 PM
Interestign ide and good to see soem LW marketing.

Only thing i don't liek is that deformed logo, looks like LW logo eat Shuriken :)

Paul_Boland
06-30-2013, 02:10 PM
Could it be the first hint of Lightwave 12?

jasonwestmas
06-30-2013, 02:28 PM
not this flag-waving tribal crap again. . . . :D

Lewis
06-30-2013, 02:28 PM
Could it be the first hint of Lightwave 12?

They just released 11.5.1 so let's not overhype this, nobody is THAT fast for full version release :) :).

probiner
06-30-2013, 03:14 PM
Interestign ide and good to see soem LW marketing.

Only thing i don't liek is that deformed logo, looks like LW logo eat Shuriken :)

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/shurikenlw-bp.png
doesn't need to :D

cresshead
06-30-2013, 03:59 PM
They just released 11.5.1 so let's not overhype this, nobody is THAT fast for full version release :) :).

I think they'll show and tell lightwave 12 at siggraph and probably deliver it by the end of the year, they have a HUGE booth area and are one of the last 3d apps to showcase a full update as all autodesk products have been updated, so has modo and cinema4d...zbrush keeps making point releases that look like major updates if they were from autodesk!

i really DOUBT newtek will just display 11.5.1 at siggraph.

Lewis
06-30-2013, 04:07 PM
Competition showing new versions don't really mean they'll show full version number, last year Luxology didn't have new version and they still were at Siggraph demoing 601 :).

Also if LW12 would be delivered at end of year as you say (which i highly doubt) then it would be significantly less feature packed than most of people hope here so i think it's better to expect less and then be pleasently surprised if ther eis more than expect hughe and then be dissapointed (constantly) :). But I'd like that you are right and that NT/LWG3D had "robot" people doing 24/7 rewrite/unification and all the sutuff behind scenes while we were waiting for DEVs (regula rhumans) working on 11.5.1 for last couople of months :).

cresshead
06-30-2013, 04:13 PM
Competition showing new versions don't really mean they'll show full version number, last year Luxology didn't have new version and they still were at Siggraph demoing 601 :).

Also if LW12 would be delivered at end of year as you say (which i highly doubt) then it would be significantly less feature packed than most of people hope here so i think it's better to expect less and then be pleasently surprised if ther eis more than expect hughe and then be dissapointed (constantly) :). But I'd like that you are right and that NT/LWG3D had "robot" people doing 24/7 rewrite/unification and all the sutuff behind scenes while we were waiting for DEVs (regula rhumans) working on 11.5.1 for last couople of months :).

not long to go..we'll see who's correct..

I do have to observe that my hunch on the new mac pro before it was released was just about spot on...i said it would be like the mac cube...and it was..except it was round not square!
I think lw12 will be a shift upwards a new level if you will..they don't have to implement everything by dec 2013 but they will show evidence of some key new features of architecture to the software.

MAUROCOR
06-30-2013, 04:22 PM
OMG, it looks like they will bring back CORE again!

jasonwestmas
06-30-2013, 04:25 PM
OMG, it looks like they will bring back CORE again!

you mean the Hardcore program?

hrgiger
06-30-2013, 05:03 PM
I'm curious to see what NT will reveal at Siggraph this year but being very cautiously optimistic. Somehow it seems too early to be talking about LW12. They have to know that by starting some mystery campaign like this 'join the rebellion' that they will be setting the speculation wheels flying.. They must have something new that they intend to show. Otherwise why would they try to ramp up to Siggraph with a speculation campaign only to show stuff that everyone already knows about?

Digital Hermit
06-30-2013, 05:19 PM
I new it... by the look of that logo, we are a new Zerg mutant for the Hive mind.

Ooo... that's gives me an idea... :D

speismonqui
06-30-2013, 05:51 PM
Thundercats movie made in lightwave?

I like the poster and I like the rebellion. But what does it mean?

Netvudu
06-30-2013, 06:26 PM
Definitely NOT LW12. I think we still have at least one more point release in front of us prior to 12

Surrealist.
06-30-2013, 06:43 PM
They are definitely due to show some movement. I could believe 12. Just the optimistic thinking is more to do with what they can/should get done by 12. I think it would be logical for 12 to be more of a milestone for laying the ground work for future improvements rather than seeing some of the things some people want already implemented. Likely it will be a combination of a milestone with some additional features.

MAUROCOR
06-30-2013, 07:18 PM
you mean the Hardcore program?

No, the CORE app!
I am kidding, of course. The fact is this kind of marketing campaign immediately reminds me the CORE campaign. And the CORE fiasco too!

hrgiger
06-30-2013, 09:00 PM
The fact is this kind of marketing campaign immediately reminds me the CORE campaign. And the CORE fiasco too!

And they have to know that. I hope they know what they're doing this time.

Nicolas Jordan
06-30-2013, 09:20 PM
Definitely NOT LW12. I think we still have at least one more point release in front of us prior to 12

I think we were lucky enough to get 11.5 nevermind another point release before LW12. I'm pretty sure the next release will be LW12 especially now after 11.5.1 has been released.

Megalodon2.0
06-30-2013, 09:21 PM
And they have to know that. I hope they know what they're doing this time.

They have to. It was the best marketing UP UNTIL the reveal, then things went to hell after that.

I can't imagine that they will repeat the problems again. In fact I refuse to believe they will.

- - - Updated - - -


I think we were lucky enough to get 11.5 nevermind another point release before LW12. I'm pretty sure the next release will be LW12 especially now after 11.5.1 has been released.

I agree.

geo_n
06-30-2013, 09:34 PM
I think we were lucky enough to get 11.5 nevermind another point release before LW12. I'm pretty sure the next release will be LW12 especially now after 11.5.1 has been released.

Can't imagine they would hint on lw 12 this early. If they are catering to existing lw users which is shrinking as time passes, then sure lw 12 could be around the corner. But if they're targetting to get back old users and non-lwvers users then lw 12 must be spectacular and beat the modo freight train, and nothing could be that without signs of unification. So they should show point, edge, poly selection in layout 12 or nothing else :D

Snosrap
06-30-2013, 09:55 PM
Got my copy :D:thumbsup: While I share a fair amount of criticism of LW, I do think it's a good solid buy. You won't regret it.

erikals
06-30-2013, 11:59 PM
it's not LW12
it's not a new CORE thingey

(i'm 94% sure of it...)

Chris S. (Fez)
06-30-2013, 11:59 PM
Zergified LW logo. I like it. Will not be holding my breath, but maybe we'll get a glimpse of 12 at Siggraph...

Chris S. (Fez)
07-01-2013, 12:04 AM
it's not LW12
it's not a new CORE thingey

(i'm 94% sure of it...)

So you're telling me there's a chance! YeeeeAAAHHH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCFB2akLh4s

Megalodon2.0
07-01-2013, 12:39 AM
Can't imagine they would hint on lw 12 this early.
Actually... why not?

If you recall there was LW10.1 and then LW11 was announced practically after 10.1 was out the door. Siggraph would be the perfect time to announce LW12 - and to be shipping sometime during Qtr1, 2014.

Vong
07-01-2013, 01:21 AM
Oh, how soon we forget....

11.5 was shown at SIGGRAPH last year, with an expected Q4 release. It wasn't released until January this year. So showing 12 at SIGGRAPH this year with an expect release of Q4 this year or Q1 next year, seems reasonable.

geo_n
07-01-2013, 01:24 AM
I hope they're not just trying to follow the delivery dates of previous versions just for the sake of it.
Surely they know 100% that after lw 9 they promised new unified app that failed, promised a new direction(?), people who stuck around after core are getting pissed with lightwave not showing any tangible progress towards unified app.

Philbert
07-01-2013, 02:17 AM
Posted on G+ for non-facebook users

https://plus.google.com/u/1/109632571914583407108/posts/4wTLdeBzNZc

50one
07-01-2013, 02:55 AM
Sounds exciting! Since the .5.1 update was mainly a bugfix[who knows what under the hood] I can imagine that we're gonna see the v12 early preview @ Siggraph. As always, speculation only, would be great to have some sort of official message from LW3D Group like "Hey guys, you all gonna be amazed with the new stuff we've got in v12 blah blah" that would suffice I guess:)

djwaterman
07-01-2013, 04:39 AM
I'm not signed up to Facebook so all I see when I click on the link is the Logo. Is that all everyone is talking about here? It's just a logo with a tag line, I wouldn't read much into it.

50one
07-01-2013, 04:53 AM
I'm not signed up to Facebook so all I see when I click on the link is the Logo. Is that all everyone is talking about here? It's just a logo with a tag line, I wouldn't read much into it.


Same issue here, don't have facebook, but I would guess it's just the image that was posted there.

erikals
07-01-2013, 05:53 AM
strange, i'm not on FB either, but can read the whole page...
https://www.facebook.com/LightWave3D

biliousfrog
07-01-2013, 06:14 AM
The logo looks terrible to my eyes, like something a first-time illustrator user would create simply by deleting and moving control points. The curves aren't even smooth!...reminds me of all the terrible, cheap, freehand tribal tattoos people had done during the 90's with varying line thickness and jerky curves.

erikals
07-01-2013, 07:08 AM
it needs some retouching, i wouldn't call it terrible though, just slightly unfinished.
people should feel free to improve it http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

dsol
07-01-2013, 07:27 AM
That logo makes me wince just looking at it. It reminds me of SliceHD on the iPad - deadly sharp blades!
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/03/slice-hd-you-will-hurt-your-fingers-on-your-ipad/

pinkmouse
07-01-2013, 07:45 AM
Interestign ide and good to see soem LW marketing.

Only thing i don't liek is that deformed logo, looks like LW logo eat Shuriken :)

Come on, it's infinitely better than the LW V4 "Golden Turd" :)

littlewaves
07-01-2013, 07:59 AM
it seems pretty clear to me that the "Join the Rebellion" logo is in celebration of the inevitable decision by Disney to exclusively use Lightwave for the production of their new Star Wars animation "Star Wars Rebels" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Rebels) and presumably if we "join" then we automatically get to work on the series and all future Star Wars films for very high salaries regardless of our skills (or lack of them)

Either that or it's just a bit of ill-judged sniping at Autodesk on Newtek's part.

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 09:15 AM
Either that or it's just a bit of ill-judged sniping at Autodesk on Newtek's part.

The mantra made me feel ill. Any company that feels they need to spread propaganda and fortify their position with it makes them look weak and fearful.

50one
07-01-2013, 09:33 AM
The mantra made me feel ill. Any company that feels they need to spread propaganda and fortify their position with it makes them look weak and fearful.


I think it's more about the no-need for a fully working undo type rebellion:):chicken:

Netvudu
07-01-2013, 09:39 AM
The mantra made me feel ill. Any company that feels they need to spread propaganda and fortify their position with it makes them look weak and fearful.

you mean...like everything that Autodesk does every single time?

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 09:44 AM
you mean...like everything that Autodesk does every single time?

Yes, and I thought NT was above that. It doesn't make it right that AD or whomever instigated it, it looks childish and dark-age no matter who does it.

50one
07-01-2013, 09:47 AM
That doesn't make it right, it looks childish and dark-age no matter who does it.

I think you reading too much into it, It's not in the same ballpark as Autodesk 'don't blend in' campaign.
Maybe just a poor word play, nothing more.

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 10:12 AM
I think you reading too much into it, It's not in the same ballpark as Autodesk 'don't blend in' campaign.
Maybe just a poor word play, nothing more.

nah, I think this dynamic has more impact that people realize when our "chips are down", I've been observing these software consumer behaviors for a long time now. :) Or maybe online communities aren't for me and I should just get back to work and ignore all the catapults and crossbows I see all across the net hehe.

It's this kind of demonizing attitude that companies like to do (it isn't any different from religious banter) and in fact interferes with development and progression for the entire industry. This is an attempt to persuade the consumer to look at the "Mantra" , the iconic brand name and make them believe that WE are the good guys and THEY are the bad guys. Human nature or a learned and very long-standing "Trend" in the world is to play the US and THEM game. I think it's a cheap ploy that stirs up the bees nest and to get attention like a little child that isn't liking their current situation. As a result we loose focus on the actual needs of the software. Instead we become emotionally attached to the Mantra and detached from the strengths and weaknesses of all the software we have ever used.

The idea of believing in a Mantra or Slogan always seems to appear when our chips are down and companies exploit that. In the end, we tend to loose more than we gain.

realgray
07-01-2013, 11:25 AM
Ok here's my wild guess. The blades are actually flames coming off the lightwave logo. Perhaps a hint at full TFD integration in LW 12?

Matt
07-01-2013, 11:58 AM
OMG, it looks like they will bring back CORE again!

Erm, no.

Matt
07-01-2013, 12:02 PM
So then the rebellion is against convenience? :devil:

Positive as always John. :D

Digital Hermit
07-01-2013, 12:25 PM
it needs some retouching, i wouldn't call it terrible though, just slightly unfinished.
people should feel free to improve it http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


Ok, I painted this up real quick. So here is my Zergalicious WIP... :)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5448/c0ty.jpg

cresshead
07-01-2013, 12:26 PM
Erm, no.

Phew!

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 12:50 PM
Ok, I painted this up real quick. So here is my Zergalicious WIP... :)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5448/c0ty.jpg

looks like a brain sucking parasite, excellent zerg representation!

dsol
07-01-2013, 01:00 PM
Actually, I've just figured what it reminds me of - a swiss army knife (with all its blades fanning out). Which is appropriate I guess :)

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 01:18 PM
Actually, I've just figured what it reminds me of - a swiss army knife (with all its blades fanning out). Which is appropriate I guess :)

To be honest, when I see the word "REBELLION" and some sharp pointed shapes upward it looks like the tips of spears awaiting to charge into battle. Bad word and shape play perhaps and a good reason to change minds about this kind of direction imo. Just who or what is the enemy here.

MAUROCOR
07-01-2013, 01:22 PM
Erm, no.

I am glad to know, Matt! ;)

MAUROCOR
07-01-2013, 01:38 PM
Once they started this marketing campaign that way, certainly they knew it would generate lots of speculation. So, my guess:

1- They will reveal LW 12 on Siggraph with very few features and wavers will start a REBELLION against NT (again), or

2- They will reveal LW 12 on Siggraph and show a REBELLION against the splited LW and the first path to the new UNIFIED LW.

Waves of light
07-01-2013, 01:50 PM
So once again Rob, Chuck, Matt, Lino and the gang are all sat around in a meeting room, laughing their heads off at some of the crazy ideas we think LW3DG are going to reveal at Siggraph, thanks to them dropping a clever bit of marketing.... anyone remember the *cough* accidental site release last year ;) Matt?

Snosrap
07-01-2013, 03:23 PM
So once again Rob, Chuck, Matt, Lino and the gang are all sat around in a meeting room, laughing their heads off at some of the crazy ideas we think LW3DG are going to reveal at Siggraph. No more Chuck though - so sad. He went over to the other side - Tricaster. :)

- - - Updated - - -


Erm, no. Erm, sad. :(

Lewis
07-01-2013, 03:29 PM
Hmm, I think they will Release LW12 at Siggraph and show LW13 Beta, must be that , yeah :D :D.

Matt
07-01-2013, 03:32 PM
It's just a marketing campaign, nothing to read into other than what it is.

And no, the LW logo is not being changed or anything.

Waves of light
07-01-2013, 03:35 PM
No more Chuck though - so sad. He went over to the other side - Tricaster. :)

Didn't know that, thought he was still part of the dev team.


Hmm, I think they will Release LW12 at Siggrpah and show LW13 Beta, must be that , yeah :D :D.

You been out on the beer again Lewis?

jwiede
07-01-2013, 03:45 PM
Positive as always John. :D

In the context of the comment I replied to, yes, actually.

digitaldoc
07-01-2013, 03:52 PM
I would predict more frequent cardinal cycles to keep a steady flow of cash for development, so LW 12 announcement very possible at Siggraph.

Not sure what the rebellion is about, certainly there was a lot of talk of defection after the Hardcore debacle.

Hoping Newtek is not following Adobe into cloud only subscription service!!!!!

50one
07-01-2013, 03:56 PM
I think you all are missing the obvious....Rebellion - roar!

MAUROCOR
07-01-2013, 03:57 PM
It's just a marketing campaign, nothing to read into other than what it is.

And no, the LW logo is not being changed or anything.

Nothing to read into other than what it is?


Hey, I think you didnīt read well, it is written "REBELLION" there. It should mean something, shouldnīt?

hrgiger
07-01-2013, 04:07 PM
It's just a marketing campaign, nothing to read into other than what it is.



Its not a very clear marketing campaign but maybe that's the point. What are we rebelling against and who are we joining?

I'm just curious because the last time we had a unclear marketing campaign, it didn't turn out so well.

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 04:11 PM
Its not a very clear marketing campaign but maybe that's the point. What are we rebelling against and who are we joining?

I'm just curious becauuse the last time we had a unclear marketing campaign, it didn't turn out so well.

Got that right. I would have thought that companies would realize by now that an ambiguous campaign just creates more distaste for a product.

hrgiger
07-01-2013, 04:21 PM
Got that right. I would have thought that companies would realize by now that an ambiguous campaign just creates more distaste for a product.

I don't know if I'd say that. Can you give an example of what you mean? I thought the CORE lead up was pretty great, I just mean it didn't turn out well in the end for those who supported the CORE direction. And if this 'join the rebellion' campaign leads up to something good at Siggraph, then a vague marketing campaign gets people talking (and yes speculating)about a product and isn't that ultimately the goal of a marketing campaign? In this case however, I'm just a little cautious about getting too amped about another lead up. I would just rather know what the deal was before I can get excited about it.

Megalodon2.0
07-01-2013, 04:42 PM
Hoping Newtek is not following Adobe into cloud only subscription service!!!!!

I would hope not as well.

Considering the Adobe backlash though, I don't think Newtek would look forward to having THAT kind of controversy.

- - - Updated - - -


I thought the CORE lead up was pretty great, I just mean it didn't turn out well in the end for those who supported the CORE direction. And if this 'join the rebellion' campaign leads up to something good at Siggraph, then a vague marketing campaign gets people talking (and yes speculating)about a product and isn't that ultimately the goal of a marketing campaign?

I agree. The leadup to CORE was fantastic. EVERYONE was talking about it. The final execution was just that though - an execution. But the campaign up to that point was brilliant - IMO.

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 04:52 PM
I don't know if I'd say that. Can you give an example of what you mean? I thought the CORE lead up was pretty great, I just mean it didn't turn out well in the end for those who supported the CORE direction. And if this 'join the rebellion' campaign leads up to something good at Siggraph, then a vague marketing campaign gets people talking (and yes speculating)about a product and isn't that ultimately the goal of a marketing campaign? In this case however, I'm just a little cautious about getting too amped about another lead up. I would just rather know what the deal was before I can get excited about it.

I am being presumptuous but that's kind of the point if I'm misinterpreting something. I don't see how mystery mixes well with such extreme terminology. I believe it's not wise to use extreme words like JOIN THE REBELLION; create a "aggressive" looking logo, then not tell us what we are rebelling against with Lightwave 3D for two months. To me, that creates a lot of territorial attitudes about software and destroys the bridges of understanding between the programs, (which if any knows me I'm dead set against such attitudes). So if that wasn't the aim of such a slogan then I don't know how this ambiguous-aggressive approach is a positive one for helping the industry and creating better tools and creating more jobs. If anything, these extreme meanings in this kind of slogan are damaging to NT as a company and it pushes knowledgeable people away. I would rather see something interesting rather than getting all aggressively segregational about it. It takes away from the main goal of progressive development. I feel strongly about that.

I know some people don't take words as seriously as I do but I am pretty engaged in graphic iconography design and the social ramifications of it when using extreme terminology.
Anyway, those are my first hand thoughts on the matter.

allabulle
07-01-2013, 05:09 PM
(...)
Hoping Newtek is not following Adobe into cloud only subscription service!!!!!

Oi! Careful there. We don't even talk about such things here.

brunopeixoto
07-01-2013, 06:08 PM
Lw 12?

erikals
07-01-2013, 06:20 PM
Lw 12?

nope.

COBRASoft
07-01-2013, 06:34 PM
New modeler, or same modeler with layout 'core' for camera view and such things :), that's my guess....

Megalodon2.0
07-01-2013, 07:26 PM
Lw 12?

Yup.

Makes perfect sense and considering the recent past timeline, it probably is.

realgray
07-01-2013, 07:52 PM
Yup.

Makes perfect sense and considering the recent past timeline, it probably is.

I really hope so. Keep the progress coming. The competition is not standing still.

Surrealist.
07-01-2013, 07:52 PM
Marketing campaigns are supposed to mean something. They have an origin and purpose, (why it is being created and for what reason) fused with information about the public which is then fed into a think tank of sorts and then fed back out based on the original origin and purpose.

A marketing campaign is usually obtained by engaging with the public in some way. And it is intended to encourage more engagement and inter-ACTION on the part of the public to which it is intended. They idea is to get them talking, and engaging WITH the company that has originated the campaign. And that hope is that this WILL occur.

A successful marketing campaign encourages people to REACH for something. Which means they communicate about it and interact. Amongst themselves AND of course WITH the company that originated it.

A mystery sandwich is only one kind of campaign. And unless you are actually going to reveal something f'ing incredible at the end it is not a wise idea.

This is why there is speculation that gets aroused when you release such a thing. If it is not a mystery sandwich then it is something else. It can not be both. If you are not waiting to reveal anything, then use the campaign to engage your public. Interact, talk about the meaning and why it originated. If it was just some guys sitting around getting drunk thinking up cool names for a band that is one thing. But coming up with a slogan for a product usually has more meat to it than that. And even kids who sit around thinking up names for a band have some reason and purpose. They have some idea they'd like to convey and when people ask them about it, they say what it is, and why they thought of it. Because that's the idea. It is about getting people to communicate.

Which seems to be a recurring theme here doesn't it? That is, squandered opportunities to engage and interact with the public. Which by the way, is how you go about selling something. In case that has been missed on anyone.

GraphXs
07-01-2013, 08:06 PM
JOIN THE REBELLION does sound like going against the norm. I think they should continue the "Playing nice with others" approach. AutoDesk products are everywhere and if I can use LW in them with ease then I know it has a place in the pipeline. Of course I would love to use it exclusively, but we have a mixed pipeline and Lightwave has a place in it. I hope LW3DG continues to improve the pipeline workflow w/other apps. If they continue to work better and great with Unity, Adobe products (like update the LWO format for CS5,6,etc) Improve the FBX export. (PLEASE ADD EXPORT SELECTED!!!!) Then the software will have a place and LW will continue to grow. Yes, continue to create a full package that we can do everything in, but please play "GREAT" with the others and continue to make it fun and easy to use!

hrgiger
07-01-2013, 08:36 PM
I highly doubt that they will not continue improving LW interchange with other apps. To do so, would be quite foolish.

On Facebook, the LightWave 3D page has stated that they are not changing the logo and that this is just a lead up to Siggraph when you will see what this is all about. And that they're pretty sure you're going to like it.

jwiede
07-01-2013, 09:00 PM
As long as it draws attention of more potential customers, it really is moot how existing customers feel about the approach. I'm not guessing whether it will or will not, a lot seems to depend on whether enough time has passed since CORE. Do I believe it has a chance of doing so? Absolutely, and that's probably enough reason to try it at this point.

That said, I also tend to agree with Jason about the risks and issues of "divisive marketing", and wish Newtek wouldn't focus on such tropes quite as often as they have.

Digital Hermit
07-01-2013, 10:36 PM
It's just a marketing campaign, nothing to read into other than what it is.

And no, the LW logo is not being changed or anything.

So we are not going to be Zergling LW'rs... Aww! :cry:

shadowshifter
07-01-2013, 10:57 PM
Maybe they're "rebelling" by making a Linux version! :D

Much cooler and much more important than this unification silliness ;) (okay so I'm the only person that likes the weird split system :P)

(also yay I can post after a billion years of being unable to stay logged in long enough to do so. Hello.)

shrox
07-01-2013, 11:26 PM
I guarantee there will be new t-shirts.

- - - Updated - - -


Maybe they're "rebelling" by making a Linux version! :D

Much cooler and much more important than this unification silliness ;) (okay so I'm the only person that likes the weird split system :P)

(also yay I can post after a billion years of being unable to stay logged in long enough to do so. Hello.)

I like it the split app for different reasons, but having more mesh deformation control in animation would be great.

erikals
07-02-2013, 02:59 AM
Lw 12?

Makes perfect sense and considering the recent past timeline, it probably is.

once again, no.

LightWave3D The LightWave logo has not changed. WE REPEAT -- the LightWave logo has not changed. You will not have to redo your tattoos...Join the Rebellion is leading up to SIGGRAPH where you'll see what it's all about!

cresshead
07-02-2013, 05:01 AM
lightwave 14?
(we can't have 13 can we...and to show a major leap forward we'll skip 12!)

how's that for being a 'rebel' ?:D

Ryan Roye
07-02-2013, 05:57 AM
Why stop at 14!? GO OVER 9000!!!

erikals
07-02-2013, 06:19 AM
LightWave 9000

i like that... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

hrgiger
07-02-2013, 06:45 AM
i prefer we keep it to lw15 or below because after that i lose my $395 upgrade price.

fazi69
07-02-2013, 07:14 AM
What ? Rebel Lion ? 115336

cg-qbit
07-02-2013, 07:27 AM
I reckon Lightwave could become the viable alternative to the autodesk pipeline, but in order for that to happen Newtek is going to have a real battle on there hands to achieve it. I would like to see it happen as autodesk has gobbled up so much of the market, i think the industry is in danger of becoming stagnate in terms of the pace of developement of the technologies. Don't get me wrong I like the autodesk products and also use them underfire, but when the only real alternative to say maya, is max or soft, with the other pipeline applications being sidelined to either previz (lightwave and c4d) or specific tasks (houdini) there is a real skill/talent deficit that the competitor products suffer.

From a business point of view, there are many more artist, animators etc who know max and maya, versus lightwave and the other apps, which makes manning a pipeline more challenging for lightwave, to say the least. This is an area that newtek really has to get a handle on that will involve greater efforts to get Lightwave into 3d schools, and small training institutions, as well as better 3rd party literature on bookshelves. The very fact that at the moment there is 4 times as much literature on maya and max than lightwave, makes those application more accesible, and given that there are still no thrid party manuals available for 11, or 11.5 makes the developing of talent more difficult. Also as an example there very few training insitutions/collleges that teach lightwave in the UK.

I think Newtek could really take a leaf from the Discreet/Autodesk handbook on development, ie start buying up and integrating a number of the third party technologies that are widely used, and also to focus on growing the dev teams. One of the crucial things to bear in mind with how autodesk have built maya, max and soft, mudbox and motionbuilder into the dominant apps they are, is by not only buying technologies to integrate, but also integrating the Dev talent that built those technologies into the autdoesk dev departements. In order for Lightwave to become a credibal alternative to the autodesk pipe, these are the kind of moves that will need to be undertaken in my view.

There are also strategic alliances with the hardware and gpu tech manufacturers that will need to be developed, to, at the very least, challenge 3d max. Because max has had a lot of work to develop optimized intergration with Nvidia's quadro gpus this gives max real edge on lightwave in terms responsiveness and speed in the gui, an area that lightwave is struggling with at the monent. Also given that autodesk rather than throwing tons of new features at their user over the last couple of years, and instead has focused more on developing reliable multi threading for there packages, and solidifying what they already have, this will be an area that newtek will being playing catchup for a while, but an area that the dev teams really need to put effort into.

There is also a third element that autodesk has thrown into the mix which is very useful for the developement path for their products, and that i reckon could serve newtek well, that is the offer of pipeline specific development for there customers. One of the ways that autodesk has managed to make themselves so integral to there ever growing user base, (at the high end< larger studios etc) is they have specific teams that are focused on developing tools for those users, which are then introduced into the main package.

Another critical element is pricing. The introduction of a yearly subcription has removed what was the traditional trigger for a studio to consider changing pipeline package, the lower than upgrade cost, plus added levels of support, as well as extra content and development (in this case i am thinking specifically of maya) gives user greater benefits for staying loyal, all in a predictable cost per seat, and removes a lot of the cashflow worries of keeping pace with the softwares development path.

Hopefully newtek are going this root, as i would really like to see Lightwave really give the autodesk apps a run for there money!! (i also have been using it for 14 years off and on and really like it)

cg-qbit
07-02-2013, 07:30 AM
also has anyione thought that maybe the teaser is designed to tie in with the annoucment of the next installments of the starwars franchise?

lardbros
07-02-2013, 07:50 AM
Well... thought I'd dip in here and see what everyone's opinions were. :D

I personally like the logo... looks like a flying spikey butterfly thing... :D

I think Newtek have created a Rorschach psychological test using the LightWave logo, and will determine who is eligible to buy the next version based on who sees what within the logo...

Seems like a good idea to me! ;)

cg-qbit
07-02-2013, 07:59 AM
also newtek isn't only company to have had marketing faux pas's, i am reminded of soft when they launched ICE getting vanilla ice to play at there siggraph party and him coming with Ron Jeremy and porn bunnies in tow, and spending his time on stage when he wasn't doing tracks talking about how much he liked sex!!!

cresshead
07-02-2013, 08:13 AM
LightWave 9000

i like that... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif



http://blogs.lib.utexas.edu/texlibris/files/HAL-9000.jpg

JohnMarchant
07-02-2013, 09:23 AM
Its marketing for new users and as that it may work although NT track record on these things is a little hit and miss.

Personally i want NT to sort LW out and make it look a little more professional. I hate having to keep reassigning buttons to LW plugins, i expect it on third party not on their own plugins. The various UI options needs sorting out they dont seem to have been updated in years. The Studio one although a little better still need work to get everything in place. Even Genoma does not have all its plugins assigned to buttons yet. It all smacks a little of more half arsed attempts to improve things. people are still using some very old plugins to do some things in LW that NT should have gotten into LW some time ago.

Modeler really needs some love as well. More tools need to be combined and interactive, more settings for them and dump the activate/deactivate nonsense.

I never brought into LW11, i stopped after i brought into the HardCore/Core debacle and i lost allot of faith in LW. I still love it and regularly use 10.5 and although there are some nice things in 11, its not enough to get me back into the program. I will wait and see what 12 or 13 delivers and maybe i will come back.

I love LW very much, it is still better for me than any of the AD stuff, im now learning Houdini and that is a great package all be it a bit more expensive, this combined with LW and even Blender give me pretty much all i need.

geo_n
07-02-2013, 12:02 PM
Maybe they're "rebelling" by making a Linux version! :D

Much cooler and much more important than this unification silliness ;) (okay so I'm the only person that likes the weird split system :P)

(also yay I can post after a billion years of being unable to stay logged in long enough to do so. Hello.)

I'm really wondering how much profit it would be to make a linux version. In japan people don't like linux. Its apple for video guys and windows for 3d guys in most studios we deal with. Except for the time I learned linux to learn massive. Terrible terrible experience.
Modo didn't have a linux version for more than a decade.
The devs of some other companies are bringing out substandard linux versions or just wine version and then substandard support. They say its not profitable and linux is linux. People using free os would pay for 3d app? Like using blender and paying for plugin :D Seems ironic. Peace!

allabulle
07-02-2013, 12:10 PM
We don't use Linux because it's free and we pay for software too. That's not the point. But I'm pretty sure we won't see a Linux LightWave native version this summer, sadly.

jasonwestmas
07-02-2013, 12:56 PM
I don't use osx or linux much at all but that doesn't mean I would want it to disappear and be stuck with only one choice for the future.

50one
07-02-2013, 01:33 PM
People using free os would pay for 3d app? Like using blender and paying for plugin Seems ironic. Peace!

Are you for real?Most of the CG pipelines is based on Linux. It's quite specific market, it make sense to use linux for something like Houdini as it is fully featured 3D package(fluids, RBD etc) but for majority of users there's to much win only apps to switch to linux unfortunately.

Digital Hermit
07-02-2013, 02:39 PM
also newtek isn't only company to have had marketing faux pas's, i am reminded of soft when they launched ICE getting vanilla ice to play at there siggraph party and him coming with Ron Jeremy and porn bunnies in tow, and spending his time on stage when he wasn't doing tracks talking about how much he liked sex!!!

God, I remember when I saw that disaster. Even with all that, I never imagined Soft selling out to "them."

raymondtrace
07-02-2013, 03:51 PM
...People using free os would pay for 3d app? Like using blender and paying for plugin :D Seems ironic. Peace!

People don't use Linux or other Open Source Software simply because it is free. People use OSS software because it is open. Can you imagine Lightwave without the open extensibility of the SDK (http://www.lightwave3d.com/lightwave_sdk/) and Lscript?

Commercial and OSS blend well together. Right now, we are conversing through commercial forum software running on an OSS operating system and an OSS web server. So, no, I was not surprised to see a commercial Blender plugin.

There is not really a big difference in OS cost. When Windows can be bought for as little as $40 and OS X can be bought for $20, I don't think you can infer Linux users to be thrifty and a poor market for commercial software. They've got at least an extra $20 to spend.

erikals
07-02-2013, 04:02 PM
There is not really a big difference in OS cost. When Windows can be bought for as little as $40 and OS X can be bought for $20, I don't think you can infer Linux users to be thrifty and a poor market for commercial software. They've got at least an extra $20 to spend.
yep, was about to mention it, Windows can probably be bought cheap some places...

Linux is nice for some things, but for most Wavers, even as a render-farm, i assume a cheap WinOS or MacOS chould do the trick. (people having 100 computers might feel differently, but even then, it's fairly cheap, compared to the PC cost) afaik only Huge companies would benefit somewhat from a LightWave Linux version. (1000+ computers)

snsmoore
07-02-2013, 04:12 PM
I actually like the logo....and it would go nicely on a black shirt (I hope they make some for sale, otherwise I'll have to see about getting access to it legally and have my wife put in on a shirt for me - she's an apparel decorator ;) )

As far as the campaign, I think it is actually nice that they gave us a preview of it before the campaign is launched at siggraph (I think that's what someone said.)

And it sounds like a good idea, basically rebel against those "big evil guys" who dominate the industry and subject it to their schemes(product acquisition and termination, subscription based software, etc.)

Megalodon2.0
07-02-2013, 04:32 PM
once again, no.
I was referring to what they will be announcing at Siggraph, not the logo.

XswampyX
07-02-2013, 08:00 PM
I just hope it goes well. :thumbsup:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/LWLogo_zps6828bca8.jpg (http://s465.photobucket.com/user/xXswampyXx/media/LWLogo_zps6828bca8.jpg.html)

erikals
07-02-2013, 08:04 PM
Nice! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

probiner
07-02-2013, 08:12 PM
likewise Swampy, nice take :)

Ryan Roye
07-02-2013, 09:26 PM
Can always count of Swampy for those posts with pretty pictures, many of which are "Ah hah!" inducing.

shadowshifter
07-02-2013, 10:59 PM
I guarantee there will be new t-shirts.

- - - Updated - - -



I like it the split app for different reasons, but having more mesh deformation control in animation would be great.

Agreed. Wonder if it would be too much overhead to use the hub to show selections from Modeler in Layout and then have them move simultaneously so you could edit Layout in Modeler without your actual model moving so you don't break it (or maybe I'm the only one that is that clumsy) but can get the deform right for the animation. However I can see that being a massive problem in Mac Lightwave where Modeler is already being jerky for me in symmetry mode with a >250k tri character and occasionally crashes when I spin edges (I am not doing anything more complicated than spinning edges and moving points) :)

The Zerg logo and the Swampy logo both look like they need to be used in other "Join the rebellion" propaganda posters ;)

I'd pay for a Linux version.

Digital Hermit
07-03-2013, 01:33 AM
XSwampyX, that is really nice! I hope it's ok that I used your model for a different purpose. Because when I looked at your work, this whole "Join the Rebellion" theme reminded me more of the Hunger Games.

I think the glow effect on the logo I tried made it a bit too blurry.



http://imageshack.us/a/img90/5289/o1z1.png

geo_n
07-03-2013, 09:26 AM
Are you for real?Most of the CG pipelines is based on Linux. It's quite specific market, it make sense to use linux for something like Houdini as it is fully featured 3D package(fluids, RBD etc) but for majority of users there's to much win only apps to switch to linux unfortunately.

Yes for big facilities. Lightwave is not in that high end market and so was modo. Hence no linux.
Linux needs dedicated linux techies to support it. Windows and Mac run fine without support. But lets not start an os war. Bottom line, it wasn't profitable for modo, why should it be for lightwave. Can it be profitable for lw?

geo_n
07-03-2013, 09:37 AM
People don't use Linux or other Open Source Software simply because it is free. People use OSS software because it is open. Can you imagine Lightwave without the open extensibility of the SDK (http://www.lightwave3d.com/lightwave_sdk/) and Lscript?

Commercial and OSS blend well together. Right now, we are conversing through commercial forum software running on an OSS operating system and an OSS web server. So, no, I was not surprised to see a commercial Blender plugin.

There is not really a big difference in OS cost. When Windows can be bought for as little as $40 and OS X can be bought for $20, I don't think you can infer Linux users to be thrifty and a poor market for commercial software. They've got at least an extra $20 to spend.

You're right os is cheap nowadays. I didn't think about the power of opensource linux. But that power is a double edged sword sometimes. Supporting it will not be cheap and need dedicated people to do it = cost for both software developers and client side. I don't think these highend studios with linux pipeline will switch to lw anyway, they're knee deep with maya in terms of investment and RnD of some powerful tools lightwave is not open to.

dsol
07-03-2013, 09:48 AM
Yes for big facilities. Lightwave is not in that high end market and so was modo. Hence no linux.
Are you saying that they don't want to get back into the high-end of the market? You are aware of Rob Power's background, right?


Linux needs dedicated linux techies to support it. Windows and Mac run fine without support.
Heh, that's debatable. I've had plenty of OS headaches with Windows and (to a lesser degree) OSX. Linux is certainly a pain in the balls for casual users and driver support is very patchy. But for large facilities, it provides benefits that outweigh these issues. You do know there's plenty of pro-support for Linux? (with pro pricetags too, of course)


But lets not start an os war. Bottom line, it wasn't profitable for modo, why should it be for lightwave. Can it be profitable for lw?

It's way too early to see how the linux version of Modo sells in comparison to existing mac and PC versions. But I personally think it's a very smart move by the Foundry - and by doing so, they're really opened up the possibility of selling Modo into high-end VFX shops (who already use Nuke). it could be a very profitable niche.

XswampyX
07-03-2013, 12:13 PM
XSwampyX, that is really nice! I hope it's ok that I used your model for a different purpose. Because when I looked at your work, this whole "Join the Rebellion" theme reminded me more of the Hunger Games.

I think the glow effect on the logo I tried made it a bit too blurry.

http://imageshack.us/a/img90/5289/o1z1.png

No problem, I posted the model hoping to see what people would come up with. Great job. :)

souzou
07-04-2013, 05:20 AM
WOW! Looks like some amazing new tools!

115378

Waves of light
07-04-2013, 05:39 AM
WOW! Looks like some amazing new tools!

115378


See, now that right there is p**s funny.

50one
07-04-2013, 06:32 AM
WOW! Looks like some amazing new tools!

115378

The only thing missing is the 'create chewbacca hair guides' so it seems like there's no updates to the FFX, shame!

But seriously, any news LWG3D Group?

ianr
07-04-2013, 07:12 AM
Quote posted by Dsol

"It's way too early to see how the linux version of Modo sells in comparison to existing mac and PC versions. But I personally think it's a very smart move by the Foundry - and by doing so, they're really opened up the possibility of selling Modo into high-end VFX shops (who already use Nuke). it could be a very profitable niche. "

I think you won't find out how many seats they sell ,but my guess is it was too probitively costly for Modo & Brad BEFORE the hook-up.
I remember the LW polls for Linnux some time ago; it looked like a vanity project;the pick-up would have been again as above too costly.
But now Modo is being pulled to this, maybe Mr.Powers will have to play 'PipeLine-Catchup' in 12?

allabulle
07-04-2013, 08:49 AM
Most companies only support one distribution of Linux (CentOS/RedHat). It's up to the users to deal with the specifics of their own distribution in order to run the program. So it's not that crazy to maintain after all. But anyway, it's indeed another platform to support and that can generate revenues but has a cost too. Qt is helping a lot of applications to be as platform agnostic as possible; from there you can optimize for each OS if needed or wanted. It's not cheap, but I don't think it's particularly frivolous to have a native Linux version. There is a demand for it and a market to grow. Nevertheless I won't further the issue besides what's being said here and in other threads and places. There's plenty of arguments to consider and probably this is not the place or time. But please, don't rule out the benefits for all of having a Linux version yet.

hrgiger
07-08-2013, 03:44 PM
hmm just saw something about lw 11.6 on facebook so i dont think we will be hearing about lw 12 yet at siggraph.

hrgiger
07-08-2013, 03:58 PM
double post

probiner
07-08-2013, 03:59 PM
for those without FB:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s480x480/580216_501153683288545_998761853_n.jpg

hrgiger
07-08-2013, 04:04 PM
Ok, triple post. Not sure why- was doing this from mobile so might have something to do with it.

cresshead
07-08-2013, 04:37 PM
hmm just saw something about lw 9.6 on facebook so i dont think we will be hearing about lw 12 yet at siggraph.


9.6?

you mean 11.6

ah bless!
good news though!

hrgiger
07-08-2013, 04:48 PM
Ah yes, that's what I meant. Will edit it if I can.

hrgiger
07-08-2013, 04:56 PM
Ok so from a quick search, VRML, PLY and STL are some type of geometry exporters but what is the difference between them and how are they generally used?

DogBoy
07-08-2013, 04:56 PM
Well, if they are releasing an 11.6, it makes me hopeful that 12 will be a larger step forwards.

cresshead
07-08-2013, 04:59 PM
Well, if they are releasing an 11.6, it makes me hopeful that 12 will be a larger step forwards.

depends what's released for 11.6, so far we have hints of updates for export file types related to 3d printers.
maybe the kinect plugin will also come with 11.6?

MAUROCOR
07-08-2013, 05:29 PM
maybe the kinect plugin will also come with 11.6?

I think so!

Netvudu
07-08-2013, 05:44 PM
I donīt like to say "I told ya" (while others insisted that there wouldnīt be another point version) so I will say "both Erikals and I told ya" :lwicon:

cresshead
07-08-2013, 06:17 PM
I donīt like to say "I told ya" (while others insisted that there wouldnīt be another point version) so I will say "both Erikals and I told ya" :lwicon:

the fat lady isn't singing JUST yet!

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/jc505be0bd.jpg

adk
07-08-2013, 08:18 PM
Wouldn't really call kinect & 3D printing exporters a rebellion so I sincerely hope there's a bit/lot more shown at Siggy.

jwiede
07-08-2013, 08:57 PM
while others insisted that there wouldnīt be another point version

Really? "Insisted" seems a bit strong.

In any case, as Cresshead points out, nothing's certain yet. Personally, I'd be happy with a no-feature, fix-only 11.6 that solved some of the more obtrusive pathology present in 11.5 / 11.5.1. I don't see that going over well at Siggy, though. The formats described are all "3D-printing-related", so who knows, maybe there'll be some bundle where you buy a 3D printer and get LW free with it? Again, not very SIG-tacular, but might not be the worst idea, given how 3D printer market is heating up (heh). What ever they're planning, we'll know soon enough.

wesleycorgi
07-08-2013, 11:44 PM
Wouldn't really call kinect & 3D printing exporters a rebellion so I sincerely hope there's a bit/lot more shown at Siggy.

Yeah, not a big deal but nice to have exporters nonetheless (especially since we've been looking to buy one of those low-end 3D printers). What would be a nice combo is LW natively doing 3D scans via their Kinect support — that would sweeten the pot along with Kinect mocap.

GraphXs
07-09-2013, 12:19 AM
Yeah, I hope there is info at Siggy for v12. With Autodesk not at the show LW3DG can own it and take this time to show the Autodesk users what Lightwave can do for them!

adk
07-09-2013, 12:19 AM
Yeah, not a big deal but nice to have exporters nonetheless (especially since we've been looking to buy one of those low-end 3D printers). What would be a nice combo is LW natively doing 3D scans via their Kinect support — that would sweeten the pot along with Kinect mocap.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate any extra tools in the LW arsenal and these would be nice additions for some, but none of these really hint at nor display any of those underlying changes / workflows / tech that I would hope to see at a place like Siggraph. Maybe I'm just hoping for too much.

Digital Hermit
07-09-2013, 12:35 AM
That diet coke can is very convincing! :D


for those without FB:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s480x480/580216_501153683288545_998761853_n.jpg

Ernest
07-09-2013, 12:56 AM
Ok so from a quick search, VRML, PLY and STL are some type of geometry exporters but what is the difference between them and how are they generally used?

I'd guess that it's not so much about the differences but that some printers only accept one of the formats.

Matt
07-09-2013, 02:01 AM
but none of these really hint at nor display any of those underlying changes / workflows / tech that I would hope to see at a place like Siggraph. Maybe I'm just hoping for too much.

Kinda is, considering 11.5 and 11.5.1 were released this year, just wanted to remind people of this fact. That's not to say work is not underway on that front. And that's about all I can say without getting in trouble!

50one
07-09-2013, 02:11 AM
Kinda is, considering 11.5 and 11.5.1 were released this year, just wanted to remind people of this fact. That's not to say work is not underway on that front. And that's about all I can say without getting in trouble!

I'll give ya a Mars bar and a pack of chocolate digestives if you tell us more.

zarti
07-09-2013, 04:33 AM
The logo looks terrible to my eyes, like something a first-time illustrator user would create simply by deleting and moving control points. The curves aren't even smooth!...reminds me of all the terrible, cheap, freehand tribal tattoos people had done during the 90's with varying line thickness and jerky curves.

i dont like it either .

hope it 's not the ' upgraded-version-of-it ' .. or

i hope it is only some ' attachment-form-to-some-other-identity ' .

if isnt going to be edited , hope it is temporary .

also , the " 3ebelion " thing doesnt sound inviting , esp lately .




.peace

=}-

50one
07-09-2013, 05:39 AM
i dont like it either .

hope it 's not the ' upgraded-version-of-it ' .. or

i hope it is only some ' attachment-form-to-some-other-identity ' .

if isnt going to be edited , hope it is temporary .

also , the " 3ebelion " thing doesnt sound inviting , esp lately .

.peace

=}-


Well, the truth is that's not a part of official marketing campaign?or maybe is? No idea, but whoever done this logo, done it quickly, without paying too much attention. Anyway, I'll wait for Siggraph to see whether I should start whining and see if it's worth to invest in LW12...few days left.

I really expect the lightwave to be vfx powerhouse some claim it is - to me vfx powerhouse should have some very basic liquid simulation stuff(maybe update the hypervoxels finally??) fire and smoke shading, top notch particles, built-in (buit-in/ even basic) pass manager and few rendering aspects that are still missing, without this I'm not buying the argument of Lightwave being the powerhouse competing with big boys like Maya or 3Ds max, yes the price reflect this, but Rob mentioned couple of times, that you should ask the Autodesk guys if the animation was rendered in their software etc. while most of the built-in stuff in Autodesk apps is not even available as third-party add-on for LW? To be fair the only winner when you consider the price range is Blender, pass manager, in-camera modelling, smoke, fire and liquid effects are built-in. Just my two cents.

Exporting for 3D printing? Yeah, useful for some, I've used it few times in the past year(Blender for STL conversion), but i cannot wait to see what else is there...



Best,
Simon

adk
07-09-2013, 06:46 AM
Kinda is, considering 11.5 and 11.5.1 were released this year, just wanted to remind people of this fact. That's not to say work is not underway on that front. And that's about all I can say without getting in trouble!

Appreciate your comments Matt and you are right. I'm not 100% on the time frames but 11 then 11.5 + the bug fixes along the way gave us some fantastic new features & enhancements. Good luck with Siggraph guys and hopefully we can get a glimpse of what's up ahead.

probiner
07-09-2013, 07:23 AM
if it's worth to invest in LW12...
Well that time will come when LW12 features are unveiled :)
I like being able to play along with these files types, but wonder if there will be importers too with the full support for their features, uv and vertex color maps :)

Cheers

fazi69
07-09-2013, 07:30 AM
Strange thing. I saw LW11.6 few weeks back on some WAREZ page, while looking for free 3d models (free, not stolen....google send me there), but ignored it as a fake. Newtek have some leak in the dev process. ( or PRISM backdoor :-))

MarcusM
07-09-2013, 07:30 AM
This
http://www.liberty3d.com/2013/03/free-lscript-export-to-stl-2-0-for-lightwave-9-x-through-11-5/
should be on http://www.lwplugindb.com ;]

wesleycorgi
07-09-2013, 07:34 AM
It's going to be a fun "four day weekend." On Friday, June 19th, I'm going to Comic-con San Diego for the weekend with some friends. Then on Monday, I will be stopping by Siggraph in Anaheim. If only I could convince my buddies that they need to go to Siggraph as well!

wesleycorgi
07-09-2013, 07:41 AM
Strange thing. I saw LW11.6 few weeks back on some WAREZ page, while looking for free 3d models (free, not stolen....google send me there), but ignored it as a fake. Newtek have some leak in the dev process. ( or PRISM backdoor :-))

I just googled LW 3D 11.6 and the first hit is a WAREZ torrent site with a download. Piratez zuck.

dsol
07-09-2013, 07:51 AM
It's probably a trojan anyway. Anyway, just a week or two away from Siggraph now. So unless you desperately need Kinect motion capture or new 3D print exporters, I'm sure it's cool to wait.

dsol
07-09-2013, 07:53 AM
Kinda is, considering 11.5 and 11.5.1 were released this year, just wanted to remind people of this fact. That's not to say work is not underway on that front. And that's about all I can say without getting in trouble!

It's like you expect us forum-ites to be reasonable - haha :) Good luck with the prep for Siggraph, and looking forward to seeing whatever it is you're cooking for LW12 (when it's ready to be shown!)

50one
07-09-2013, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the tip guys, just installed the 11.6 from that site, it's amazing! I love the new icons and speed increase, so happy with Mental ray upgraded to version 3.6!

dsol
07-09-2013, 08:37 AM
I'm just surprised they re-instated the Eagle-in-a-barrrel button ;)

kopperdrake
07-09-2013, 09:07 AM
I'm just surprised they re-instated the Eagle-in-a-barrrel button ;)

Surprised! C'mon - it was long overdue. The number of projects I've missed out on because of that missing plugin. Only last week the I had to turn away the South Conganese Animal Smugglers Initiative who were looking for a new logo. Sure, it wasn't a Serpent Eagle, but hey, I'm not a bad artist - I could've tweaked it.

NewTek - get your collective heads out of your derriers and give us the tools we need to get the job done!

cresshead
07-09-2013, 10:55 AM
bring back 'lens cap' was such a fast render effect

Matt
07-09-2013, 11:53 AM
I just googled LW 3D 11.6 and the first hit is a WAREZ torrent site with a download. Piratez zuck.

Many of those sites are fake. They somehow auto-generate links / pages for whatever you search for. Download anything and you'll have a nice time cleaning up your PC from all the trojans and malware.

Waves of light
07-09-2013, 12:04 PM
If you guys release another point upgrade and then display 'things to come in LW12' at Siggraph, then that's gotta go down as one hell of a year. Will you be streaming live from Siggraph again?

Megalodon2.0
07-09-2013, 12:10 PM
I donīt like to say "I told ya" (while others insisted that there wouldnīt be another point version) so I will say "both Erikals and I told ya" :lwicon:

To me, this just PROVES that those of us who were upset that LW10 stopped at 10.1 were screwed over. So many of us thought we should have gotten FAR more than what we did end up with and were told that there would be FAR fewer point releases going forward. And here we are (possibly) going to get 11.6. And we only got 10.1 for all of the support we gave Newtek for CORE. Yeah, I wasn't wrong in my anger, just too persistent in showing it. People like me deserved more than just 10.1 and instead got screwed over and lost the deals we had. Not fair Newtek, not fair at all.

Sorry for the mini-rant, this possibly adding yet ANOTHER point release to the 11 cycle brings up VERY sour memories.

hrgiger
07-09-2013, 12:57 PM
To me, this just PROVES that those of us who were upset that LW10 stopped at 10.1 were screwed over. So many of us thought we should have gotten FAR more than what we did end up with and were told that there would be FAR fewer point releases going forward. And here we are (possibly) going to get 11.6. And we only got 10.1 for all of the support we gave Newtek for CORE. Yeah, I wasn't wrong in my anger, just too persistent in showing it. People like me deserved more than just 10.1 and instead got screwed over and lost the deals we had. Not fair Newtek, not fair at all.

Sorry for the mini-rant, this possibly adding yet ANOTHER point release to the 11 cycle brings up VERY sour memories.

i was unhappy with the way CORE and lw 10 went but seriously i think its time to let that go. im fine with the reduced upgrade price for the next 4 upgrades. im not going to argue against getting more value out of LW 11.

50one
07-09-2013, 01:00 PM
Many of those sites are fake. They somehow auto-generate links / pages for whatever you search for. Download anything and you'll have a nice time cleaning up your PC from all the trojans and malware.

That's not true, these sites are completely genuine and trojan/malware free:devil:

Waves of light
07-09-2013, 01:06 PM
i was unhappy with the way CORE and lw 10 went but seriously i think its time to let that go. im fine with the reduced upgrade price for the next 4 upgrades. im not going to argue against getting more value out of LW 11.

I'm the same. Next 4 upgrades at a reduced price, and I got Lino's rigging DVD too. And I seem to remember they offered full refunds to anyone who didn't want to continue down the v10 route. But hey, that's my opinion.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to what Siggraph has to offer this year.

Megalodon2.0
07-09-2013, 02:28 PM
i was unhappy with the way CORE and lw 10 went but seriously i think its time to let that go. im fine with the reduced upgrade price for the next 4 upgrades. im not going to argue against getting more value out of LW 11.

Yes, but *I* returned LW10 so I LOST reduced upgrade pricing. I made my peace with the CORE decision even before I was banned. I just see INCREDIBLE value with LW11.x and so little with LW10.x coming immediately after dropping CORE. That's all. That's what I mean - a "loyal" user like me was punished because I did not believe LW10.1 was worth the price - and I LOST that upgrade pricing because Newtek chose to shortchange me. I have ZERO problem with LW developers and the program itself. And it's FAR easier to "let go" when you've got better upgrade pricing. Yes, POORLY handled. If LW10 had been even half of what LW11 has become, I wouldn't have been banned in the first place because I would have seen better VALUE in LW10 than there was. ;)

hrgiger
07-09-2013, 03:32 PM
Yes, but *I* returned LW10 so I LOST reduced upgrade pricing. I made my peace with the CORE decision even before I was banned. I just see INCREDIBLE value with LW11.x and so little with LW10.x coming immediately after dropping CORE. That's all. That's what I mean - a "loyal" user like me was punished because I did not believe LW10.1 was worth the price - and I LOST that upgrade pricing because Newtek chose to shortchange me. I have ZERO problem with LW developers and the program itself. And it's FAR easier to "let go" when you've got better upgrade pricing. Yes, POORLY handled. If LW10 had been even half of what LW11 has become, I wouldn't have been banned in the first place because I would have seen better VALUE in LW10 than there was. ;)

Well it was your decision to return your LW 10 license knowing that you would lose your upgrade pricing so I'm not sure what to say about that. Again, I understand, a lot of us did not like the way things ended up with LW 10 but I also didn't see the logic in giving up my LW license and upgrade pricing after two years of waiting on CORE before I saw what LW 11 had to offer. Things were what they were- for better or worse, the decision was made to take an alternate route then continuing down the CORE path and once that decision was made, they had a mess to clean up. Not just in the software but in customer perception. LW 10 or 10.1 might not have been worth the price to you, it wasn't for me, but when stacked against the at least $1500 I'm saving over the LW 11-LW15 upgrades if I chose to stay with LW, it was a no-brainer.

Matt
07-09-2013, 04:03 PM
Just to re-iterate something, nothing was held back in the 10 cycle for 11, it's just the way it panned out with timescales and trade shows.

wesleycorgi
07-09-2013, 05:27 PM
Download anything and you'll have a nice time cleaning up your PC from all the trojans and malware.

I'm not a zucker!

jasonwestmas
07-09-2013, 05:35 PM
i was unhappy with the way CORE and lw 10 went but seriously i think its time to let that go. im fine with the reduced upgrade price for the next 4 upgrades. im not going to argue against getting more value out of LW 11.

I interpreted the upgrade discounts as a way to make up for the disappointment I got between LWcore and 10.1. Personallly I find the discount enough to make me curious where LW will go and try to make the best use of LW when I can.

Megalodon2.0
07-09-2013, 06:20 PM
Well it was your decision to return your LW 10 license knowing that you would lose your upgrade pricing so I'm not sure what to say about that. Again, I understand, a lot of us did not like the way things ended up with LW 10 but I also didn't see the logic in giving up my LW license and upgrade pricing after two years of waiting on CORE before I saw what LW 11 had to offer. Things were what they were- for better or worse, the decision was made to take an alternate route then continuing down the CORE path and once that decision was made, they had a mess to clean up. Not just in the software but in customer perception. LW 10 or 10.1 might not have been worth the price to you, it wasn't for me, but when stacked against the at least $1500 I'm saving over the LW 11-LW15 upgrades if I chose to stay with LW, it was a no-brainer.

I'm not arguing your points - they are correct. I'm also not arguing about Newtek changing course and halting CORE - as I said, I made my peace with that decision BEFORE 10.1 came out.

MY POINT... is that regardless of savings or LW11, we received an EXTREMELY lackluster upgrade in 10 and 10.1. And when you bookend that with the 9.x cycle and the 11.x cycle... it becomes so very pronounced how poor 10.1 was. I just feel that Newtek slapped MANY of us in the face by giving so little in an upgrade and then after saying we could return it - we LOSE the savings of the next five upgrades. I would have been fine if Newtek had said "You can return LW10, but if you do you will lose two of the next five upgrades at reduced prices." But they chose to penalize those of us who were angry at the little we received. That is the totality of my gripe. All Newtek had to do - for their LOYAL customers - was to reduce the number of upgrades for those of us who felt that 10.1 was far too little to pay for an upgrade. Had this occurred, we would still have been penalized, but at least the loyalty to Newtek that we'd shown - by pre-paying for CORE and for being customers for MANY years past - would have been recognized and acknowledged. But it wasn't and hence the anger that followed. It was like when management changed, they reset ALL users and ignored so many users.

Of course the good thing that came out of this was that I am no longer a Newtek fanboy. When our production starts up and if we end up with more Modo help than LW help, we'll use Modo more. Previous to the LW10.1 release, it would have been LW and none other. So at least I'm seeing software packages a little more clearly now. :)

digitaldoc
07-09-2013, 06:36 PM
That's not true, these sites are completely genuine and trojan/malware free:devil:

And I have some nice V*I*A*g*r*A to sell you too from Dr Oz, if you can just send me a check to my Nigerian bank account for $2,500 to cover the shipping, you will get a free russian bride who only smokes the BEST electronic cigarettes.

[I apologize for perhaps being off-topic but since we really don't know what the the topic/logo "Rebellion" means, maybe a little levity is appropriate]
:tongue:

dsol
07-10-2013, 04:06 AM
MY POINT... is that regardless of savings or LW11, we received an EXTREMELY lackluster upgrade in 10 and 10.1. And when you bookend that with the 9.x cycle and the 11.x cycle... it becomes so very pronounced how poor 10.1 was.

If you just try and forget CORE, there was one major upgrade in LW10 - VPR. That feature alone justified a point release (though FPrime owners might disagree!). In fact, that feature saved me a ton of time and money on jobs in the first few months I was using it.

A side effect of the lengthy wait for CORE was a lot of features that probably weren't intended for the 9.x cycle ended up being released as part of it. 9 was an anomaly - in it's own way, making up for disappointments of the 7 & 8 cycles (which it definitely did!). 10 and 10.1 might have had a short ordinal cycle, and yes - ideally a 10.5 release (maybe adding bullet or UV tools - since they were promised in earlier press releases) would have been good. But I guess it made more sense after burning through cash for a number of years on Core to create a new (and feature-rich) version. It also helped define exactly the kind of dynamic direction that the new leadership and team are bringing to LW now - free from the baggage of the Core years.

11.5 was an extremely nice surprise (and a huge upgrade). 11.6 is the cherry on the cake. So hopefully this means that 12 - whenever it's released - will be one hell of an upgrade. Maybe because I run a business myself (and know software developers), I'm a bit more tolerant of roadmaps not going entirely to plan. Software engineering is hella complex and far from a predictable, exact science. But I do know that the new team are doing an amazing job and Lightwave's future has never looked brighter.

MarcusM
07-10-2013, 05:19 AM
This images should be posted also on LightWave FB page :)

https://www.facebook.com/robpowers3d/posts/497006277036619

wesleycorgi
07-12-2013, 07:26 AM
This images should be posted also on LightWave FB page :)

https://www.facebook.com/robpowers3d/posts/497006277036619

I wonder if their offices are big enough to support a LALWUG event, training, etc. I live 5 minutes from Burbank.

50one
07-17-2013, 12:16 PM
Riiiiiiiiight! Just realized something when I looked at the Alembic logo....;)

Waves of light
07-17-2013, 12:20 PM
Riiiiiiiiight! Just realized something when I looked at the Alembic logo....;)

And you're just going to leave it at that....

sadkkf
07-17-2013, 12:27 PM
I'm the same. Next 4 upgrades at a reduced price, and I got Lino's rigging DVD too. And I seem to remember they offered full refunds to anyone who didn't want to continue down the v10 route. But hey, that's my opinion.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to what Siggraph has to offer this year.

Dang. Totally forgot about the DVD. Been a very early CORE member and upgraded every since and no DVD. Never got my CORE shirt either even though I was told it "shipped."

Actually, not feeling a whole lot of love these days from software vendors. Since Adobe's Cash Cow, I'm wondering if that will last and I need to move to Corel products or just sell all my computers, buy an island and make a living selling seashell trinkets to tourists.

Waves of light
07-17-2013, 12:33 PM
Dang. Totally forgot about the DVD. Been a very early CORE member and upgraded every since and no DVD. Never got my CORE shirt either even though I was told it "shipped."

Not even your plastic HARDCORE member card?


or just sell all my computers, buy an island and make a living selling seashell trinkets to tourists.

It'll be less stressful.

VonBon
07-17-2013, 12:45 PM
I didn't get a rigging DVD either. wusup wit dat? :deal:
Maybe they should make it a download under your account.

Philbert
07-17-2013, 01:00 PM
Not even your plastic HARDCORE member card?


It'll be less stressful.


I never got a T-shirt or card either. :(


I didn't get a rigging DVD either. wusup wit dat? :deal:
Maybe they should make it a download under your account.

The video was available as a download, that's how I got mine. I think it was from my account.

JohnMarchant
07-17-2013, 01:07 PM
To me, this just PROVES that those of us who were upset that LW10 stopped at 10.1 were screwed over. So many of us thought we should have gotten FAR more than what we did end up with and were told that there would be FAR fewer point releases going forward. And here we are (possibly) going to get 11.6. And we only got 10.1 for all of the support we gave Newtek for CORE. Yeah, I wasn't wrong in my anger, just too persistent in showing it. People like me deserved more than just 10.1 and instead got screwed over and lost the deals we had. Not fair Newtek, not fair at all.

Sorry for the mini-rant, this possibly adding yet ANOTHER point release to the 11 cycle brings up VERY sour memories.

Have to say i agree with you.

sadkkf
07-17-2013, 01:29 PM
I really don't care about another shirt or plastic card. Still, it would be nice to receive the things I'm told I would receive.

I buy LW for the features and am glad it's getting some caffeinated attention these days. There is still a long way to go, but I don't feel like jumping ship as much as I have.

bobakabob
07-17-2013, 01:45 PM
All these folks moaning were offered refunds when core didn't happen so why are they continuing to moan that they don't qualify for a reduction when upgrading? I'm really happy about the direction Lightwave is taking and look forward to what the team come up with at Siggraph.

mborge
07-17-2013, 01:57 PM
115674

kosmodave
07-17-2013, 02:41 PM
All these folks moaning were offered refunds when core didn't happen so why are they continuing to moan that they don't qualify for a reduction when upgrading? I'm really happy about the direction Lightwave is taking and look forward to what the team come up with at Siggraph.

I read somewhere at the time that to get the refund you had to trade back your dongle which was not an option for me as i have plugins tied to it that were no longer available to buy or able get a replacement number for. LW10 was a big turkey for me as I still have not used any of the so say new features that came with it even after all this time, as modeler is where I spend most of my time. Not sure if I will ever buy back in after that fiasco the same with Adobe which I know for sure I won't be purchasing again. The problem now is having skipped LW11 which still has nothing that interests me I have lost the so say benefit of the fixed price upgrade option so left with a bitter taste in my mouth. Oh well........moving on ..... I wish.

Dave

dwburman
07-17-2013, 02:53 PM
I read somewhere at the time that to get the refund you had to trade back your dongle which was not an option for me as i have plugins tied to it that were no longer available to buy or able get a replacement number for. LW10 was a big turkey for me as I still have not used any of the so say new features that came with it even after all this time, as modeler is where I spend most of my time. Not sure if I will ever buy back in after that fiasco the same with Adobe which I know for sure I won't be purchasing again. The problem now is having skipped LW11 which still has nothing that interests me I have lost the so say benefit of the fixed price upgrade option so left with a bitter taste in my mouth. Oh well........moving on ..... I wish.

Dave

The new modeling tools in 11.5 are nice... perhaps not as necessary if you have another app or LWCAD, but they've finally done some work on Modeler. Hopefully, they'll add some more in 11.6.

bobakabob
07-17-2013, 02:59 PM
I'm sure you must be mistaken as trading in your dongle for a refund would mean you couldn't use earlier versions of Lightwave anymore.

kosmodave
07-17-2013, 03:02 PM
Think there would have to be a major change in 11.6 for me to show any interest now. What tools or improvements are you talking about as most of what I read about I have covered by plugins that have been around for years. Really looking at 3dcoat as a possible replacement for modeler just not as accurate with it when it comes to modeling to specific sizes.

Dave

Megalodon2.0
07-17-2013, 03:23 PM
I'm sure you must be mistaken as trading in your dongle for a refund would mean you couldn't use earlier versions of Lightwave anymore.

No, they are not mistaken. I was REQUIRED to send my dongle back in order to receive a refund. Fortunately I upgraded to CORE using a license (out of the 11 that I have) that had minimal plugins. And Worley was great in switching their plugins to a new dongle.

erikals
07-17-2013, 03:27 PM
Really looking at 3dcoat as a possible replacement for modeler just not as accurate with it when it comes to modeling to specific sizes.

it's a humongous difference between Modeler and 3DCoat...
also, several good tools where added in LW11.5 (that don't exists as plugins)

the good thing, you can come back at any time, unlike with an AutoDesk product,
where you'll loose your right to upgrade if you skip a cycle.

Core was a sorry thing, but that's the past. been there, discussed that...

Philbert
07-17-2013, 03:35 PM
Oh yeah, I love 3D-Coat but it certainly can't replace Modeler. They're completely different tools.

nemac4
07-17-2013, 03:36 PM
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/the-state-of-rendering-part-2/#lightwave

"LW does not support Ptex as we reported previously, nor do they currently support Alembic, but support for the later might be coming very soon. SIGGRAPH is coming within a fortnight and one might expect 11.6 to be at SIGGRAPH, but the exact roll out is not published yet or known."

kosmodave
07-17-2013, 03:39 PM
it's a humongous difference between Modeler and 3DCoat...
also, several good tools where added in LW11.5 (that don't exists as plugins)

the good thing, you can come back at any time, unlike with an AutoDesk product,
where you'll loose your right to upgrade if you skip a cycle.

Core was a sorry thing, but that's the past. been there, discussed that...

Yes I know 3dcoat is tricky and i still use modeler for all my main tasks its just that once I feel let down by someone I am one of those people who would rather cut off of their own nose....... etc.
Who knows, one day I may upgrade but not enough time has passed yet and modeler 9.6 will suffice in the mean time.

Dave.

Philbert
07-17-2013, 03:40 PM
Ptex would be great with the 3D-Coat support.

Waves of light
07-18-2013, 06:31 AM
Oh yeah, I love 3D-Coat but it certainly can't replace Modeler. They're completely different tools.

Agreed.... I can't imagine trying to do arch viz with just 3DC.. 3DC is great for sculpting from nothing, then turning it that into a mesh. But most users start with a model in LW (base mesh), then into 3DC, detail, retopo, out to LW. They go hand in hand, but certainly not one or the other.

kopperdrake
07-18-2013, 09:24 AM
If you just try and forget CORE, there was one major upgrade in LW10 - VPR. That feature alone justified a point release (though FPrime owners might disagree!). In fact, that feature saved me a ton of time and money on jobs in the first few months I was using it.

Nah - I'd been an FPrime user for donkey's years, but VPR was a more than welcome addition as FPrime had stagnated for so long and LW's renderer had increased in speed so much that I barely touched it. Even for previewing renders it was no use as it was often so far out from the final render in LW you couldn't make comparisons. I loved FPrime and we had some great times together, but LW's renderer retook the crown as far as I was concerned, before VPR hit the screens, so to speak.

hrgiger
07-18-2013, 10:02 AM
Nah - I'd been an FPrime user for donkey's years, but VPR was a more than welcome addition as FPrime had stagnated for so long and LW's renderer had increased in speed so much that I barely touched it. Even for previewing renders it was no use as it was often so far out from the final render in LW you couldn't make comparisons. I loved FPrime and we had some great times together, but LW's renderer retook the crown as far as I was concerned, before VPR hit the screens, so to speak.

well with the exception that fprime was able to store render progress so you could pause a render and then further refine it later. i wish VPR had that ability.

as far as vpr goes though, i dont consider it a huge step forward point upgrade wise and i certainly wouldnt upgrade for that feature alone. most everyone has interactive renderers these days. it was obvious NT had to add its own to stay competitive. we all know what a huge impact Fprime had, i think lightwave would be in big trouble today if fprime had continue to stagnate

Chuck
07-18-2013, 10:28 AM
The problem now is having skipped LW11 which still has nothing that interests me I have lost the so say benefit of the fixed price upgrade option so left with a bitter taste in my mouth. Oh well........moving on ..... I wish.

Dave, you haven't skipped it until 12 actually ships. You can still purchase v11 as long as it is the product on sale, and preserve your upgrade pricing for the next four upgrades that follow it. You might want to try out the 11.5.1 trial edition and check out the new Modeler changes, if you have not done so already.

Waves of light
07-18-2013, 10:33 AM
Dave, you haven't skipped it until 12 actually ships. You can still purchase v11 as long as it is the product on sale, and preserve your upgrade pricing for the next four upgrades that follow it. You might want to try out the 11.5.1 trial edition and check out the new Modeler changes, if you have not done so already.

So the $395 or $495 upgrade price still applies just before the next release, cool. So theoretically, Dave could still upgrade to LW12 (when it's released) at it will have only cost $790 or $990 and he still preserves the locked-in upgrade price.

dsol
07-18-2013, 05:30 PM
I'm just bemused by these people who think LW11.x isn't worth upgrading to (particularly if you lose your fixed-price upgrades). LW11 (and especially 11.5) has literally let me do jobs I couldn't have done before in 9 or 10. I can understand why people are pissed off with 10 after Core missteps. 11 is the best cycle in LW's history. And we're about to see the final dance of that cycle at siggraph in a few day's time!

Amurrell
07-18-2013, 10:05 PM
I would have to say that 11.x series of LW has sped up quite a few things that I have been doing, or allowed me to do stuff that I would normally use another app for, particularly in modelling since that is where I spend most of my time. It's amazing what the introduction of a few tools, and a newly developing modeling engine can do for someone.

kosmodave
07-19-2013, 01:03 AM
I'm just bemused by these people who think LW11.x isn't worth upgrading to (particularly if you lose your fixed-price upgrades). LW11 (and especially 11.5) has literally let me do jobs I couldn't have done before in 9 or 10. I can understand why people are pissed off with 10 after Core missteps. 11 is the best cycle in LW's history. And we're about to see the final dance of that cycle at siggraph in a few day's time!

Fine for you guys with money to spare but since the financial downturn things have been very tough here and I have to stick with 9.6 and a bit of 10. Another thing that is a big slap in the face for me was one of the things that was stated when 11 came out a very very short time after 10 was shoved on us was that there couldn't be lots of point releases any more and it was going to be that way from now on, Here we are the very next version and we are about to see 11.6. Don't get me wrong but I am glad Lightwaves slowly moving forward and I am happy for you all to benefit from it but it does make 10 an even bigger joke for those that technically funded all that bullet stuff and other things that that have appeared as a result of core.

Amurrell, what is this newly developed modeling engine you speak of? I have tried 11 modeler at work and no different really as far as I can tell.

Dave.

DogBoy
07-19-2013, 04:10 AM
Amurrell, what is this newly developed modeling engine you speak of? I have tried 11 modeler at work and no different really as far as I can tell.

Dave.

There is a new mesh handling system added to 11.5 that added a bunch of tools (some complain that they just replicate 3rd party tools, but that misses the point). As far as i can tell, this system was added on top of the old, so it introduces a pause before the tools can be used, but when everything gets ported to the new system it will take over from the old MHS. We'll see if any new tools get added to 11.6 (or what ever is shown at SIGGRAPH next week).

Details here (https://www.lightwave3d.com/new_features/)

Amurrell
07-19-2013, 09:37 AM
DogBoy said it best. It is very responsive, but right now it appears to copy geometry into the new mesh handling system for the new tools, which is fine, until you have a large amount of geometry to deal with, then it slows the system down understandably. Once the new system is in place and takes over, it should work very fast and allow for interactivity in a plethora of tools, fingers crossed.