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animotion
11-11-2003, 09:52 AM
What are you guys thoughts on having more than 4 point subpatch polys in LW?

hrgiger
11-11-2003, 10:47 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing it implemented but as we've done without it for a while, there aren't any situations I've found yet that I can't use 3 or 4 point polygons in place of a 5 or more pointer. I'd much rather see the ability to add local subdivision, rather then having 5 or more points in a subpatch polygon. Again, though, I've gotten pretty good at adding local detail through cutting in new edges or smoothshifting, however, I still think being able to further subdivide subpatch polygons without affecting the adjacent ones would be a welcome addition.

Just my .02

animotion
11-11-2003, 11:19 AM
Very good points hrgiger.

hrgiger
11-11-2003, 11:51 AM
Another point, I don't think I would use 5+point subpatch polygons much, but I think they would be great for large flat surfaces that could covered by a subpatch poly. I imagine they wouldn't be very good though for anything that had to deform. I haven't seen them in action though so it's just a guess.

Mylenium
11-11-2003, 12:46 PM
Personally I can live without that. There may be a way of finding a way that can avoid those distortions we already see with triangular SubDs (with multipoint polys they would be even more critical) but it would only tempt people into "unclean" modeling. Especially for animation later this is not too good. Makes me still wonder, why Loxology make such a big deal out of it.

Mylenium

Nemoid
11-12-2003, 07:06 AM
I always heard n-sided poligons aren't good for animation, and since I see that its possible modelling without them, I don't find them that useful.
the possibility to convert them into subpatch can be good, but the best mesh is made from quads and some triangle in strategic position (but if its 100%quads I think its better).

In maya, where the modelling process is different and you use often split polygon tool, n sided have a reason to exist, because you can rework easily some area, poke them or split or cutting them but, again, the final mesh for animation is better made from quads.

I'd like more to have edge creases for a low poly count,this is very good, because you use far less polys indeed, and maybe even local subdivision. :)

KillMe
11-12-2003, 10:23 AM
well i would like to see them see them so i coudl use the add edges plug and the knife tool without having bits reverting to polygons

that alone is reason for n-sides poly sub d's

Kvaalen
11-12-2003, 12:31 PM
BTW, if any of you want to see n-sides polys in use, you can download the 5th model pack here:

http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=824&page=

I've been living without it but it looks like it can help reduce the density of less detailed parts of meshs. I also think it'll really help when modeling cars and things of the sort.

I won't mind seeing them in LW. :)

Elmar Moelzer
11-12-2003, 12:37 PM
I would not mind seeing them in LW (I would not necessarily spend any extra money for that allone though).
I would mainly like them for the same reasons KillMe mentioned.
It might also help with keeping models in a subpatch- state longer, even if one has to do Booleans etc on them (could make modeling of non- deforming- models easier).
CU
Elmar

Chingis
11-12-2003, 01:24 PM
The only problem is the algorithim seems to take way longer for
N-sided polys. I'd take speed over 5 point patches any day. Maya, Softimage, and Max all chug compared to Lightwave when
it comes to modeling Sub-D's. I thinks Lightwaves implementation of Sub-D's is definately one of its strong points. Interactivity is one of the most valuable things when it comes to modeling in general. What I would like to see is the ability to tag geometry with different amounts of Subdivision level. This woudn't give you more geometry to work with but would result in a higher subdivided mesh (locally) at render time. The extra subdivisions wouldn't even have to show up in modeler (assuming it slowed it down). It could almost just be a render tag type a deal.

just my 2 cents

KillMe
11-12-2003, 03:21 PM
i heard xsi's sub d's were faster than lightwaves now

Karmacop
11-12-2003, 07:07 PM
The only advantage I'd find with them is as Killme has said, using the knife tool etc without changing from sub-d to poly. Also, it's mean I wouldn't need to split the ends of cylinders etc into quads .. but it's not really that important.

EDIT: That's not to say I wouldn't love them if they were added, they would be very useful, just saying we can get by at the moment without them ;)

Valter
11-12-2003, 08:04 PM
I would like so much that lw8 come with support to n-side.
Not for use n-side in my models, but sometime spend much time in lw when you will change flow of geometry.

I did aome models in xsi (organics models) and the workfolw is better than lw in this case because you don't need take care with your polys alway get 4 points. you can construct him with 5 6 7 point and after fix for 4 points to get a good model for animation.

belive, is very better modeling with support n-side. If you don't think so, Then try modeling with xsi or wings.

LW all time if you have to make a edges using edgetools in subpatch mode (TAB) you are limited to work with 4 point/poly only for sub-d work fine.

well I don't wanna be limited for weak point of sub-d.
I doubt that lw8 come with support for n-side, but I'd love to see lw8.x or lw9 with n-side support.

cheer

Nemoid
11-13-2003, 05:26 AM
Well, for sub.ds in Lw it all depends om how you model. for box organic modeling, for example, you always get all quad mesh, in most cases, and you can end up with some few tri in the mesh itself for some detail.

I agree with the point of not having to convert between sub ds and polys with n sided support, though.
for other kinda modeling, using add edges tool, n sides have some sense, and for non organic sub-d modeling too, because the geometry doesn't deform.

however I think that from a programming POV its not difficult make modeler support n sided, but I don't know about a core integration, for rendering, subdivision level etc.

.