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View Full Version : How views of the Future changed over years... Your opinion?



shenhua
06-27-2013, 06:10 AM
A friend just sent me this image... and I LOVE IT! ^___^ What do you guys think about it?

115248

DrStrik9
06-29-2013, 06:16 PM
Empires (including Ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, Britain, USA, China, India, etc.) will come and go. Things will get better for some; things will get worse for others. If I had to paint a picture of the future, it would be somewhere in the middle of those two images. But the actual future certainly won't look like what anyone thinks now.

Danner
06-29-2013, 07:18 PM
As the saying goes: The future ain't what it used to be.

Riff_Masteroff
06-30-2013, 05:08 AM
:devil: Consider military hardware and military manpower. For all countries combined. Make a imaginary graph in your mind. X axis is time, say, since 1800. Y axis represents totals for the entire earth.

In my mind, and my opinion, the resulting curve rises steeply as we look at now time.

Things hang in a precarious balance. Worse now than before. Its likely to explode with dire results. Probably will. Could be sooner than later.

Comparatively we humans are a young species. Powerful but not humble. We mostly race to extinguish ourselves and much of life on earth with it. And many of us love it. War games played on consoles. Modeler objects of military hardware. NewTek's Lightwave will be hit by a vivid aftershock.

This week I did some internet research on another species. Trilobites. Extinct. Similar to Horseshoe crabs. To me, the geometry of their hard shells is wonderful. I would like to incorporate their two sets of three curves (lobes), as a motif, into future wood working projects. They existed on earth for 270 million years. They are no more, but their fossils are common. Can find many of them on Ebay for about ten usd each (and up). Their demise, likely was not their own fault.

I do have more to say on the subject, but will 'hold my tongue' from probable lack-of-interest.

What of us? What say you?

Medi8or
06-30-2013, 06:37 AM
Après nous le déluge

hazmat777
06-30-2013, 10:32 AM
Some of these designs might have been cool for transportation...

http://obviousmag.org/en/archives/2007/06/futuristic_automobiles_from_the_past_ford.html

Not practical, but cool.

erikals
06-30-2013, 11:30 PM
it's less war than ever
fewer countries are "interested" in a war

@ riff, i believe war games is a simulation though, a simulation for younger people to get some outrage.
this outrage is somewhat gene-driven, somewhat situation-driven. 1st person shooter games could encourage some few people, but these are people who likely would find another way than games to drive their hate anyway, though i agree that in a few selected games the scenery is questionable.

take Africa as an example > few war-games / war-movies, yet much violence / wars.

the problem for developed countries, is the power new technology just a few people can have, combined with the state of human mentality.

security / awareness / reflection - is the key.

if there is "intelligent" life out there, it wouldn't surprise me if they had to go through the exact same challenge.
nothing is born perfect, unfortunately.

can we avoid more major wars?... hopefully.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident

Megalodon2.0
07-01-2013, 12:06 AM
The greed of corporations - ALL around the world - will ultimately be our undoing. The rich will get richer, and the poor will get poorer. Some people still believe that you can make it into the top 10%, but the chances are far more against this happening. With these corporations influencing governments, rules are bent or broken so that they end up as the beneficiaries of even more and we end up with the scraps. The pessimist in me says it will end up something like Metropolis, with the rich in the towers and the poor working to keep them there.

I actually agree with the image posted by the original poster - that was actually how I saw the future back then, all the way from the 60's. Now, the bottom image is FAR more realistic to me as a future reality since everything seems to be moving in that direction. The people opposing anything having to do with halting or slowing climate change either simply don't believe that it is happening or that we can do anything about it and hope that science can find an answer in time. And the war against alternative energies is also not helping.

Yup... we're heading towards the bottom image, sad to say. :(

glebe digital
07-01-2013, 03:49 AM
Modern Secular Millenarianism makes me laugh, it's like a return to the Middle Ages, sans God.
We have our new-age flagellants, our various prophets of doom, we've even seen the return of the Crusades!

"The future isn't what it was."

"No. And I'll tell you another thing: it never WAS what it was."

50one
07-01-2013, 04:00 AM
I agree with all the comments here, what I think will happen is we're going to see a clear divide between folks that will be able to afford to live in a cities like the one in top and the majority that will live in slum like the image below, poverty, environment pollution and no access to drinking water will reduce the population highly, if you look at the south Africa it's happening right in front of our eyes, you get rich people living in highly guarded and isolated areas and majority of folks living in social housing or slum-like / slum areas... People in 90s were just to optimistic:) but now we're just being realistic.

dsol
07-01-2013, 05:15 AM
I don't think the utopia/dystopia dual views of the future are a modern thing. I mean, just look at this page from Usbourne's "World of the Future: Future Cities" (1979)
http://createrevolutionaryart.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/two-trips-to-the-21st-century.jpg

The "polluted city of a dying world" looks just like Beijing to me :)

meshpig
07-01-2013, 05:39 AM
Modern Secular Millenarianism makes me laugh, it's like a return to the Middle Ages, sans God.
We have our new-age flagellants, our various prophets of doom, we've even seen the return of the Crusades!

"The future isn't what it was."

"No. And I'll tell you another thing: it never WAS what it was."

Maybe I didn't get your joke, ( if it was one ) about "American Preppers", talking of doomsday prophets and crazy people who perceive strange phenomena in wind farms?

Those who also embrace "post modernism" as if it's really anything more than knowledge as a dictionary definition, fail to see that "Modernity" is both Today and Tomorrow… not simply the present and that there is nothing beyond tomorrow, as it were: tomorrow is, tomorrow and tomorrow.

Of all the crack-pot, 2 bit rubbish we're expected to believe in these days the Future is still the most interesting as it's the only real form of hope us Monkeys in Cro-Magnon bodies have :)

50one
07-01-2013, 05:48 AM
Well, future is happening as we speak.....this post is in past now.:)

meshpig
07-01-2013, 07:30 AM
Well, future is happening as we speak.....this post is in past now.:)

... you're still in the present when you say "as we speak" and so it goes for all subsequent readers. Both linguistically as an "order word" and in Physics as in the Future is purely hypothetical. That's the idea though.

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 08:08 AM
Well earth people change their disposition about the future based on the present economic standing in their own vicinity. Therefore the concept of "hope for the future" has always been a roller-coaster ride from the beginning of the history books. I guess it depends if one believes in a downward spiral or not regardless of the up and down fluctuations of the market place.

meshpig
07-01-2013, 08:36 AM
Hope for the future. What kind of lame crap is that? The idea of the "Future" as a believable thing is supposed to alleviate the need for depressing transcendental nonsense like life after death and frozen heads being awoken sometime in an utopian universe.

- The future speaks here and now rather than from the point of view some dreary downward looking but omnipotent deity...

Hey Glebe this one's for you: good old Pommy "new age" hippies. Too bad it was recorded 30 years ago :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPnBcUSvjuY

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 08:52 AM
Hope is always about future. So I suppose in some peoples minds the word "hope" is a falsehood as well.

erikals
07-01-2013, 08:55 AM
hope is an illusion that drives you forward, usually a nice one.

meshpig
07-01-2013, 09:21 AM
Hope is always about future. So I suppose in some peoples minds the word "hope" is a falsehood as well.

Yes well it isn't just in some people's mind. How do you suppose some kind of affect like hope actually works? Proton gradients adequately explain the existence of life in the universe so it's difficult to tell what isn't simply superstition.

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 09:28 AM
Yes well it isn't just in some people's mind. How do you suppose some kind of affect like hope actually works? Proton gradients adequately explain the existence of life in the universe so it's difficult to tell what isn't simply superstition.

Well I would agree with you in an objective context. There is no way to prove the existence of hope, it is what it is and we are aware of our emotions concerning hopeful attitudes. We either sense it or we don't. I honestly have no way to prove what hope truly is or is not or why we are even discussing this. :) I would also agree that superstition is a corrosive thing in our consciousness, but I'm not so sure that all forms of hope are mere superstition. Therefore the future is not absolute truth but there is some truth in possibility

VonBon
07-01-2013, 10:16 AM
hope is an illusion that drives you forward, usually a nice one.
I like that


I'm lookn into my crystal ball :yingyang:
Ah, in the future, you'll all be slaves :devil:

Accepting whatever jobs you can get because like 4 or 5 companies will run
everything. Your food, water, power, healthcare and technology.

:lol::foreheads mybad, I'm talkn bout the present, they call them Hedge Fund groups

shenhua
07-01-2013, 10:44 AM
A great discussion. Very interesting opinions. This forum doesn't disappoint! And I _hope_ it _will not_ :<

shenhua
07-01-2013, 11:07 AM
I’ve always been a big fan of post-apocalyptic themes. I find it impressive how humans are able to adapt and survive various hardships. A future in the upper image looks a big banal to me, while the lower one looks very challenging.

It also reminds me of one episode of Deep Space 9 related to Risa (is I spelt the name of the planet right. I mean the R&R planet that was used by the Federation of Planets for shore leaves and recreation). In that episode a group of people sabotaged the planet’s weather control systems and it obv ruined everyone’s vacation. The leader of that group said then “If people can’t handle a little bad weather, how can they expect to handle an invasion?”

His methods aside I think he raised a valid point. And that’s what I would fear in the utopian future. I’d fear that people would become too spoilt and lose ambition. Being pampered and living life that demands so little of them. Sure they could come up with artificial challenges – games and sport come to mind. But I think such challenges are only good to an extent and couldn’t replace those challenges that we’ve evolved to overcome, things that are life and death matters like acquiring means for survival (food, shelter) then bettering ourselves not when everything is given, but under difficult circumstances.

There’s also a question of the pursuit of science. I’m unsure here how would that look in an utopian society. Is it already that at that stage we’d be so far knowledgeable about the universe that we’d move to some esoteric transcendental ventures. Or would utopia have sth like golden age of science. Still I wouldn’t think that this would go with utopian scenario per se, I find it hard to believe that everyone would find joy in studying and acquiring knowledge.

I also have an impression that there might be sth like “human nature” at play here. At this point at least, it would seem that our civilization is good at destruction, self-destruction included. Mayhem, competitiveness and all those things that many ppl tried to eliminate… what I mean is that the civilization might be a façade and underneath it is still the savage in us. The tribal clansman.

Realistically, to me at least, the future would be most probably somewhere in between. Not dramatic in either of the extremes, unless sth huge happens.

glebe digital
07-01-2013, 12:44 PM
@meshpig - thnx for the Hillage ;-)

Confucius say......is better civilization go down drain than come up it.

glebe digital
07-01-2013, 01:16 PM
Below is a graph I found a while ago, being a 'culturomic' study of relative +/- news items, which seems to show a gradual slope towards negativity in all news media over time:

115326

As with most narratives built around fear, I doubt they really have that much basis in any objective reality.
Good news doesn't sell, or grab the attention, and these days it's ALL about attention.

“If you’re reading this…
Congratulations, you’re alive.
If that’s not something to smile about,
then I don’t know what is.”
— Chad Sugg

Matt
07-01-2013, 02:35 PM
I still think there is a conspiracy regarding all these movies showing apocalyptic scenarios and alien contact. All preparing us for something "they" know is coming! :D

jasonwestmas
07-01-2013, 02:46 PM
I still think there is a conspiracy regarding all these movies showing apocalyptic scenarios and alien contact. All preparing us for something "they" know is coming! :D

Well sure, all that stuff comes from "ancient" scripture and so called "writing on the wall". Prophecy or self-fulfilling prophecy, however you want to look at it.

digitaldoc
07-01-2013, 03:02 PM
More rats in the box, become more aggressive and kill each other.

erikals
07-01-2013, 05:05 PM
today's news >

- 700 million fewer extremely poor today than in 1990

so not all that bad... especially considering this view was created in 1990...
a year when 700 mill more people were poor. http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115248&d=1372334985

these 1990 people might wanna take a second look at themselves... ;]

Megalodon2.0
07-02-2013, 01:44 AM
today's news >


so not all that bad... especially considering this view was created in 1990...
a year when 700 mill more people were poor. http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115248&d=1372334985

these 1990 people might wanna take a second look at themselves... ;]

Where did this news come from?

I saw this last September:

"In 1990, almost 600 million people lived on less than $5 a day in resource-rich countries. Today, it is estimated that poverty has increased to about 700 million people. Among this population, close to 300 million live in dire poverty, surviving on $2 a day or less. The majority of the poor in resource-rich countries live in Africa, where 80 percent of citizens in extractive-intensive countries live on under $5 a day, and over 50 percent live on under $2 a day."

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/09/13-poverty-governance-kaufmann
------------
Just curious because the population has increased more than a billion since then and I can't see poverty being stricken down quickly enough to accommodate a billion. Then again...

But then there is EXTREME poverty:
------------
"The global poverty rate at $1.25 a day fell in 2010 to less than half the 1990 rate. 700 million fewer people lived in conditions of extreme poverty in 2010 than in 1990. However, at the global level 1.2 billion people are still living in extreme poverty."

http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals/poverty.shtml
------------
No matter how you cut it, things aren't that great.

erikals
07-02-2013, 02:20 AM
No matter how you cut it, things aren't that great.

well, i can't argue with that, considering roughly 2,5 million kids die of hunger each year :/
source: Save the Children

shenhua
07-02-2013, 06:38 PM
As for the statistics regarding poverty or crime rate or stuff like that... I once read someone explaining that it depends of how you measure them. And if manipulated right, you can present data that would show that things are getting better, even though they would be worse by the previous measure.

I find it hard to believe that poverty is lower than it was. Especially in the light of recent crises.

Another thing is how the middle class got hit in developed countries. The development of "Lower middle class". Ppl who can't possibly dream of lives on the standard level of what used to be middle class. How many ppl start putting off marriage because of economics. How many ppl can't afford a car, even less a place to live in. It used to be enough for one man to provide for his family. Now we have situations that say, like in Japan, people have two full time jobs to barely get their ends met. We also have situation when in US and Europe more and more young ppl choose to live with their parents for longer.

cresshead
07-02-2013, 07:36 PM
We're in an economic downturn thus all the doom n gloom for the future is pretty obvious from where we're at right now.

Davewriter
07-02-2013, 08:01 PM
I look at computing and how we want/need more and faster and it is a good thing. Then you look at a "future" product that has yet to come out - Google Glass - and the amount of blow back it is getting.

All I really want to know is, where is my dang flying car? Or at least a jet pack!?!

erikals
07-03-2013, 01:31 AM
the flying car will be skipped, you will have to settle for some anti-gravity boots...

meshpig
07-03-2013, 03:54 AM
@meshpig - thnx for the Hillage ;-)

Confucius say......is better civilization go down drain than come up it.

Ah, you're a gem Captain Hillside. Nice quote but Confucius is a bit like Plato. Too much the "man of state".

dsol
07-03-2013, 04:37 AM
I still think there is a conspiracy regarding all these movies showing apocalyptic scenarios and alien contact. All preparing us for something "they" know is coming! :D

I'm as big a sceptic as they come, but did you see that weird speech made by the Canadian ex-minister for defence? He just comes out and says aliens are here - and have been visiting us for thousands of years. It's pretty nuts. But I don't think he comes across as nuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDuqZbjxB_E

meshpig
07-03-2013, 04:58 AM
We're in an economic downturn thus all the doom n gloom for the future is pretty obvious from where we're at right now.

Well, we're not here in actual fact yet the electorate seems to want to buy into doom and gloom just because everyone else seems to be there. I mean it's so much the case that people fight harder for their own enslavement than they do or can for anything as stupid as "liberty" or moreover, rights which directly affect them.

Danner
07-03-2013, 06:19 AM
... All I really want to know is, where is my dang flying car? Or at least a jet pack!?!

The little kid in me is sad to say flying cars are impractical in many levels, the amount of energy necesary to make even the lightest car fly is tremendous, specially for a vertical take off. Without a vertical take off they must have huge wings and runways must be built, mantained, controlled.. speaking of air control, have you seen the scrape marks on any given parking lot wall? Seen how bad people drive? I'd go to sleep fearing some idiot will fly into my bedroom. (I know they would/should be autopiloted, but where is the fun in that?) Jetpacks are also energy wasteful and dangerous, I'd still buy one in a second if they were stable and reasonably priced.

jasonwestmas
07-03-2013, 07:54 AM
The little kid in me is sad to say flying cars are impractical in many levels, the amount of energy necesary to make even the lightest car fly is tremendous, specially for a vertical take off. Without a vertical take off they must have huge wings and runways must be built, mantained, controlled.. speaking of air control, have you seen the scrape marks on any given parking lot wall? Seen how bad people drive? I'd go to sleep fearing some idiot will fly into my bedroom. (I know they would/should be autopiloted, but where is the fun in that?) Jetpacks are also energy wasteful and dangerous, I'd still buy one in a second if they were stable and reasonably priced.

That's why in science-fiction stories you may see extremely "slow burning/high expulsion" energy compounds being invented. ;)

meshpig
07-03-2013, 08:12 AM
Well I would agree with you in an objective context. There is no way to prove the existence of hope, it is what it is and we are aware of our emotions concerning hopeful attitudes. We either sense it or we don't. I honestly have no way to prove what hope truly is or is not or why we are even discussing this. :) I would also agree that superstition is a corrosive thing in our consciousness, but I'm not so sure that all forms of hope are mere superstition. Therefore the future is not absolute truth but there is some truth in possibility

You know you're wasting your time pondering the Truth?; like being sunk at the bottom of a beautiful and fast flowing river:)

jasonwestmas
07-03-2013, 09:02 AM
You know you're wasting your time pondering the Truth?; like being sunk at the bottom of a beautiful and fast flowing river:)

haha, I've heared that one before.

glebe digital
07-03-2013, 09:40 AM
Posterity will call us idiots.

glebe digital
07-03-2013, 12:31 PM
Pieter Bruegel the Elder's future vision:
115354

Megalodon2.0
07-03-2013, 01:34 PM
Posterity will call us idiots.

I don't normally agree with you, but in this I believe you are 100% correct.

DrStrik9
07-03-2013, 01:35 PM
"If you keep your food in a refrigerator, your clothes in a closet, have a bed to sleep in, and a roof over your head, you are richer than 75% of the entire world population."

I don't know who said this, or how accurate it is, but it seems pretty on target to me. When I went to Africa and India, I saw that the poorest people on earth are mostly happy! Go figure.

DrStrik9
07-03-2013, 02:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDuqZbjxB_E

Wow, fascinating speech. And no, he doesn't seem like a nut to me either.

Waves of light
07-03-2013, 03:31 PM
Right, that's it. Screw you lot, I'm off to build a very big boat and wait for global warming floods to rise up.... now, just gotta find a 3d printer big enough and someone who looks like me.

meshpig
07-05-2013, 05:33 AM
Pieter Bruegel the Elder's future vision:
115354

I'm not so morbidly obsessed witt the Middle Ages but the point about Bruegel is that he was a Peasant and speaking as one which explains his place in history. He painted Peasants as Van Gogh later on painted Prostitutes and Absinth soaked Junkies as well as blazing becomings of Aix en Provence. Taking Bruegel's "last judgement" at face value as if it were a religious painting plain and simple kinda misses the point: he wasn't talking about the "Nation" as some hop skip to "Civilisation", ( which in any case the gung-ho Capitalists would be happy to turn into one great big Casino). I mean what you're really saying is the conservatives do the apocalyptic deluge better than those who, like in every era don't have the good fortune to be able to dodge the hype.

You know? WTF is Jacob Bronowski actually saying. The Chinese are hardly going to ignore Science in favour of Calligraphy as the Arabs did 800 years ago:)

meshpig
07-05-2013, 06:41 AM
... Like don't get me started on the actual numbers when the Cons start dismantling the public service for example. it isn't about saving money or lowering Government spending ( why the F would it be when conservative governments are higher taxing overall and profligate like drunken sailors). It's simply Corporatising... remove all those barnicles in the form of lazy entrenched employees with entitlements and bring on the sackable contractor who costs shed loads more but at least when a volley comes to replace your modem, you can't say they're useless public servants leaning on their shovels but in actual fact it's pretty much the same.

These days it isn't about Aldous Huxley's BNW or Winston Churchill's inspired anti-communism but about infants taking HR seminars too far out of the Kindergarten.

glebe digital
07-05-2013, 08:04 AM
hmm, I guess conservatives generally do 'doom' better because they are traditionalists, rather than reactionaries. All progressive change is seen as 'bad', going hand-in-hand with the corrosion of traditional values, which seems like primarily a right-wing infatuation. (All that 'back to basics' yada yada). Reactionaries -on the other hand- become infatuated with their Utopian viewpoint, be they Libertarian, Marxist or whatever.......perhaps even Jihadists/Creationists would fall into this category?

Ah Mr B!
Science & Our Future - Jacob Bronowski

http://youtu.be/Tc_v9GHsloU

warmiak
07-05-2013, 10:30 PM
All progressive change is by definition variable - some of it is good , some of it is bad and thus for instance being conservative when opposing roads which lead to nowhere is a wise move.

meshpig
07-17-2013, 04:04 AM
hmm, I guess conservatives generally do 'doom' better because they are traditionalists, rather than reactionaries. All progressive change is seen as 'bad', going hand-in-hand with the corrosion of traditional values, which seems like primarily a right-wing infatuation. (All that 'back to basics' yada yada). Reactionaries -on the other hand- become infatuated with their Utopian viewpoint, be they Libertarian, Marxist or whatever.......perhaps even Jihadists/Creationists would fall into this category?

Reactionaries by definition are those who seek "tradition" where there really is none but nonetheless hold any and every pretense to as sacred. Traditional values? I mean there are all sorts of cults devoted to total inertia, the "state" itself being the mother of them all.

The Ascent of Man: ironically, if we should at all take science seriously then surely there is no "Man"? He after all was a transitory being who once shared in God's view by looking down from above, because he was also made in his image.

- "Suppose nothing else were "given" as real except our world of desires and passions, and we could not get down, or up, to any other "reality" besides the reality of our drives--for thinking is merely a relation of these drives to each other: is it not permitted to make the experiment and to ask the question whether this "given" would not be sufficient for also understanding on the basis of this kind of thing the so-called mechanistic (or "material") world?..." Friedrich Nietzsche (the will to power)

You see, the irony is the "Age of Enlightenment" with all it's contradictions is all there is to go by since from the dawn of Capitalism sometime in C13 Venice, "Tradition" has been systematically ruled out.

meshpig
07-17-2013, 04:22 AM
?

meshpig
07-17-2013, 04:49 AM
... I have to add; " that if some new discovery about the evolution of man isn't in the school books in 50 years, we will no longer exist".

Europe seems to be still obsessed with man and god, mythical peoples of old...

If you know anything about Mungo Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mungo_remains) there you have a really ancient people who were actually very sophisticated monolithic stone age technologists 30 000 years before Europe even became " a pot to piss in" and when Europe encountered them they had survived "by traditional means" for 40 000 years. Yet they're all ****** up destined to be absorbed into the great averaging machine :)

meshpig
07-17-2013, 05:20 AM
All progressive change is by definition variable - some of it is good , some of it is bad and thus for instance being conservative when opposing roads which lead to nowhere is a wise move.

Even though all roads lead to Rome? If the West is so great and so Scientific how come it can't blow off religion and politics or even the Ufologists and the Electric Universe? If there's any wisdom to the future it would be patience above all.

glebe digital
07-17-2013, 05:28 AM
@meshpig - wow thanks for that Mungo Man link, amazing stuff.

meshpig
07-17-2013, 06:20 AM
@meshpig - wow thanks for that Mungo Man link, amazing stuff.

It is indeed @Glebe. A bit like the Mariana Trench really... rock paintings from 40 000 years ago depicting expressive faces 30 000 years before Lascaux but what you can't imagine in Europe is what it must have been like to have stood in Botany Bay, spear in hand with 40 000 years of uninterrupted "civilisation" behind you only to die a slow if not perpetual death in the name of a few drunken sailors, petty criminals and the British "noble" quest for scientific advantage/waste disposal.

JB is really just a pontificating, and I say English twit via the BBC even though he was a Polish Jew... but there you have it. "Ethnicity" is globally just the backwash of the British Empire... or the problem of globalisation since the first wave. A People don't normally associate themselves with a Nation unless under duress... the permanenrt state of the Nation State:)

glebe digital
07-17-2013, 07:03 AM
A twit defending a 'cultural ethnicity' perhaps, which in the last stages of crisis would simply be reduced to a flag-waving exercise.......seems to have happened here already.

Still. The most We can reasonably hope for is to be a thin line in the fossil record for the benefit of future visiting aliens.

meshpig
07-17-2013, 07:34 AM
A twit defending a 'cultural ethnicity' perhaps, which in the last stages of crisis would simply be reduced to a flag-waving exercise.......seems to have happened here already.

Still. The most We can reasonably hope for is to be a thin line in the fossil record for the benefit of future visiting aliens.

Jeez Glebe, foisted by your own petard talking of waving flags and cannons and s*it.

-"Suppose, finally, we succeeded in explaining our entire instinctive life as the development and ramification of one basic form of the will--namely, of the will to power, as my proposition has it... then one would have gained the right to determine all efficient force univocally as--will to power. The world viewed from inside... it would be "will to power" and nothing else."

Hope is immanent. Conservatism only has the power of negation. No you can't do that but what if you can?

glebe digital
07-17-2013, 09:11 AM
I believe the term is hoist but yeah it probably qualifies as a self-pwning :D

Hey we all begin to wake up from 'confused thinking' eventually. Gimme time.

shrox
07-17-2013, 09:24 AM
The future is doom by our own hand, and that future has already commenced.

jasonwestmas
07-17-2013, 04:14 PM
The future is doom by our own hand, and that future has already commenced.

doom started a long long time ago.

zarti
07-17-2013, 05:44 PM
> caching simulations -------------------------> 100% complete!
> baking textures ------------------------------> 38% running ..

shrox
07-17-2013, 05:55 PM
doom started a long long time ago.

Yep.

Davewriter
07-17-2013, 08:21 PM
But now that we know that our alien overlords - err, friends - are here and working with us... that means I do get to have my jet pack, right?

bazsa73
07-18-2013, 12:18 AM
But who would like to live in that terribly tasteless future as it is envisioned on the upper image? If that is the brave new world then, thanx but no thanx.
That must be a real fake crap reality where you eat pills all day and the only valid communication form is some terribly restrictive PC talk.

meshpig
07-18-2013, 09:43 AM
I believe the term is hoist but yeah it probably qualifies as a self-pwning :D

Hey we all begin to wake up from 'confused thinking' eventually. Gimme time.



Yes hoisted... surely though the Future and AGW are ineluctably two sides of the same coin? At least the underlying fear of death is the same; on the one hand of the failure of the economic system and on the other it being wholly dependent on the Earth... a magnificcent and super abundant rock suspended in the oblivion of a tiny solar system at the edge of a finite Galaxy.

The really poignant thing is that the "State", as it were takes the Earth as it's own object but there are hundreds of them each with it's own sovereign claim to the one planet. Case closed.

In that sense "Civilisation" is the skin disease of the Earth rather than being "in decline" ( like the Christian fantasy of the "fall of Rome") and that's hardly the fault of the Future either, if you get my drift. The fact is that disease kills more people than war ever did but between the both of them... and there are still quite a few ready to go in fifteen minutes ICBM's floating about. A little bit of Paranoia goes a long way :)

meshpig
07-18-2013, 10:40 AM
@ Glebe, you could have also written your anti AGW blog the other way around. i.e. the closing passage was a soliloquy. A little chat with the void, a statement about the "immutability" thereof whilst having spent years defending
so called traditional values?

Intellect has more to do with "everyday life" and it's inertia, or speeds and slownesses either way than grandiose political dreams.

glebe digital
07-19-2013, 06:42 AM
Indeed something of that sort would've been a good note to end on. :-)

saranine
07-19-2013, 09:45 PM
The future. It's always in the the slippery seconds beyond the present.

erikals
07-20-2013, 01:10 AM
no fan of the future, it's seems to take forever to come around...

jasonwestmas
07-20-2013, 01:11 PM
no fan of the future, it's seems to take forever to come around...

lol. . .kind of like post-modernism. :P

erikals
07-20-2013, 04:45 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-95XTGzgKm2E/TZI_k_5D9MI/AAAAAAAAAAM/JjiDUMvZ7GM/s1600/the+simpsons+parody+of+salvador+dalis+work.jpg

shrox
07-20-2013, 07:02 PM
Certain aspects of 1970's movies have come to pass. The corporate control depicted in Rollerball, or the environmental collapse and homeless masses in Soylent Green. It's not science fiction, it's science prophesy.

meshpig
07-21-2013, 02:52 AM
Indeed something of that sort would've been a good note to end on. :-)

You do remember of course the "original" discussion several years ago where Megladon was waxing lyrical about "Alcor" and frozen heads? :- "imaghine waking up one day after your death in a brand new body all toned and blond 1000 years from now, in the future"?

- To which the obvious counter is; yeah great you wake up in someone else's body being unable to speak the language of the time or have any idea of the interim years, with no living relatives, no friends, no money, no passport, no history, no identity, nowhere to live, no immunity to possible diseases 1000 years hence... only the idea that somehow it would be better than dying or that you'd cope better than those who've never experienced vision due to congenital blindness do when sight is restored. They don't usually... :)

glebe digital
07-21-2013, 04:36 AM
Certain aspects of 1970's movies have come to pass. The corporate control depicted in Rollerball, or the environmental collapse and homeless masses in Soylent Green. It's not science fiction, it's science prophesy.

Rollerball was a cool film, but the 'corporate future' it presents is nothing like today. The blue-chips are just one nexus of power amongst many, in a system where each 'node' -be it a commercial, political or media structure, acts reciprocally to back up the system itself, which is the global economy in its entirety. James Caan fights a 'beast' with a Head, but the Global Economy has no center, no head, and therefore quite impossible to slay.

Enviro collapse? A nightmare to scare children with......quite effective in the 'apocalypse era' (circa 1995-2012) but now, not so much.
I think this will gradually be replaced by a more pragmatic environmentalism without the 'we're all doomed!' rhetoric, but on the other hand 'pragmatic stewardship' does not make for great headlines nor win votes.

Homeless masses have always been around, perhaps they are allowed to exist to keep the rest of us frightened & clocking-in to our jobs everyday? In the same way that terrorism -in its various flavours- is an important & required element of the global system.

The system works because it isn't fixed, if you solve all problems & create a 'Utopian world' I think it would be an awful place, certainly a form of ideological & cultural iconoclasm. Who wants to live there?

glebe digital
07-21-2013, 04:44 AM
@meshpig -

Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own;
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow, do thy worst, for I have lived today.

Be fair, or foul, or rain, or shine,
The joys I have possessed, in spite of fate, are mine.
Not heaven itself upon the past has power;
But what has been, has been, and I have had my hour.

John Dryden

glebe digital
07-21-2013, 04:59 AM
Right that's me off on holiday....enjoy the future!

http://youtu.be/DczLuyOvrOg
FZ

meshpig
07-21-2013, 07:22 AM
Rollerball was a cool film, but the 'corporate future' it presents is nothing like today. The blue-chips are just one nexus of power amongst many, in a system where each 'node' -be it a commercial, political or media structure, acts reciprocally to back up the system itself, which is the global economy in its entirety. James Caan fights a 'beast' with a Head, but the Global Economy has no center, no head, and therefore quite impossible to slay.

Enviro collapse? A nightmare to scare children with......quite effective in the 'apocalypse era' (circa 1995-2012) but now, not so much.
I think this will gradually be replaced by a more pragmatic environmentalism without the 'we're all doomed!' rhetoric, but on the other hand 'pragmatic stewardship' does not make for great headlines nor win votes.

Homeless masses have always been around, perhaps they are allowed to exist to keep the rest of us frightened & clocking-in to our jobs everyday? In the same way that terrorism -in its various flavours- is an important & required element of the global system.

The system works because it isn't fixed, if you solve all problems & create a 'Utopian world' I think it would be an awful place, certainly a form of ideological & cultural iconoclasm. Who wants to live there?

Perhaps not Britain yet but many places have already arrived at a more pragmatic environmentalism... Don't ask the Japanese though because they might repeal article 9 of their constitution and remilitarise; I mean "enviro collapse" is a bit like the "global market", there isn't one. Markets like Geography are local and have everything to do with the inseparability of what people do.

The system works because it doesn't work so there's no use talking about it being fixed, but lets make one thing clear: the idea of investing on the stock market is to avoid the toil of lowly paid work and to profit from someone else's labour be it other investors or an endless chain of those propping up the famous and ever "diminishing rate of return".

- That I can earn more as "return on investment" by doing nothing but front up with the cash and be wise where I put it. Earn more in a month than the average wage earner does in 6 says nothing about how smart i am and everything about po faced conservatives telling me it's all about working hard and getting ahead. Yeah, the peasants are revolting but of course it has nothing to do with a "class system" these days more a kind of market segmentation where you transition from birth to death as a kind of commodity hedged against ending up as the perfect consumer or as some kind of mortal semblance.

Rollerball as i remember it from it's day was pretty much as you say.

meshpig
07-21-2013, 07:47 AM
@meshpig -

Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own;
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow, do thy worst, for I have lived today.

Be fair, or foul, or rain, or shine,
The joys I have possessed, in spite of fate, are mine.
Not heaven itself upon the past has power;
But what has been, has been, and I have had my hour.

John Dryden

I like the first paragraph then it sounds like a kamikaze obituary.

Mean while the winged Haralds by command
Of Sovran power, with awful Ceremony
And Trumpets sound throughout the Host proclaim
A solemn Councel forthwith to be held
At Pandæmonium, the high Capital
Of Satan and his Peers.

John Milton :)

meshpig
07-21-2013, 08:32 AM
Right that's me off on holiday....enjoy the future!

http://youtu.be/DczLuyOvrOg
FZ

Perhaps that's a bit too much like Clint Eastwood quoting Nietszche for all those years only to stand up in his old age and make a fool of himself at a Republican Convention?

shrox
07-21-2013, 10:12 AM
I didn't choose the terms they used in Rollerball and Soylent Green, but if can't see any parallels in today's world...that's bad.

warmiak
07-21-2013, 07:58 PM
It is not about profiting from somebody's else labor ... investors are bringing something to the party, namely money which sometimes allows smart but poor folks invest in whatever is that they are doing.

Ultimately it is not different than you parting with your money to purchase lightwave etc ...

Megalodon2.0
07-22-2013, 12:18 AM
You do remember of course the "original" discussion several years ago where Megladon was waxing lyrical about "Alcor" and frozen heads? :- "imaghine waking up one day after your death in a brand new body all toned and blond 1000 years from now, in the future"?

- To which the obvious counter is; yeah great you wake up in someone else's body being unable to speak the language of the time or have any idea of the interim years, with no living relatives, no friends, no money, no passport, no history, no identity, nowhere to live, no immunity to possible diseases 1000 years hence... only the idea that somehow it would be better than dying or that you'd cope better than those who've never experienced vision due to congenital blindness do when sight is restored. They don't usually... :)

Wow... talk about serious distortions.

Do you honestly think that if it were possible to grow a new body - and if we're talking about a thousand years into the future (though that long isn't really necessary) - that they wouldn't have completely mapped the brain and know how to plug in learning (like the Matrix) and have all possible preventions against diseases? Of course the chances are FAR greater that it will be a nanotech robotic body (or simply transferred into software code a la Matrix) instead of flesh and blood. You are really thinking far too traditional technology and not what future tech MAY be. I say MAY be since considering how things are going in the world, we'll be tumbling down all too soon. ;)

meshpig
07-22-2013, 12:54 AM
It is not about profiting from somebody's else labor ... investors are bringing something to the party, namely money which sometimes allows smart but poor folks invest in whatever is that they are doing.

Ultimately it is not different than you parting with your money to purchase lightwave etc ...

It is but you just can't see it that way. The simple point I'm making is you can't single out a pedestrian as such because he's most likely also a car driver. Some part of your income is derived from what you do in terms of your own labour and other parts from direct or indirect investments but you'd be kidding yourself if you thought individuals were anything more than consumers in the system.

Assuming that consumption and production are one and the same thing, purchasing Lightwave most likely means Lightwave will continue and continue also so you might make a living out of it but your labour is still Labour. It's hard to see how you could turn a profit with an outlay of only $1400... which is why the hyper-individualism of the idealising, utopian conservatives is just not very creative code for "yes Boss, whatever you say Boss", or historically speaking; a return of the "master-slave" discourse where slaves ought to be gratfeful :-(

meshpig
07-22-2013, 02:43 AM
Wow... talk about serious distortions.

Do you honestly think that if it were possible to grow a new body - and if we're talking about a thousand years into the future (though that long isn't really necessary) - that they wouldn't have completely mapped the brain and know how to plug in learning (like the Matrix) and have all possible preventions against diseases? Of course the chances are FAR greater that it will be a nanotech robotic body (or simply transferred into software code a la Matrix) instead of flesh and blood. You are really thinking far too traditional technology and not what future tech MAY be. I say MAY be since considering how things are going in the world, we'll be tumbling down all too soon. ;)

Yes about all you can say is Perhaps. I think I said the same thing though about curing all diseases 3 years ago: A disease is simply a specific or localised disorder and disorder (entropy) is just one of those things the Universe does whilst offering it's cognisance a "present" from which to experience it.

If you can dong that one on the head then sure, the Universe will budge and all diseases wil be cured. All this is crazy really as it's the absolute resilience of the species, like some kind of cancer which will see the species prevail at any cost. So I wouldn't be waiting around for the end of the world just yet, your own insignificant death will do :)

erikals
07-22-2013, 04:30 AM
no death is insignificant. just my opinion.

it's an interesting question, will we turn our whole bodies into nanotech or robot parts.
and if so, how would chicks give birth? would they then give birth to a robot?... 8~

shrox
07-22-2013, 10:24 AM
no death is insignificant. just my opinion.

it's an interesting question, will we turn our whole bodies into nanotech or robot parts.
and if so, how would chicks give birth? would they then give birth to a robot?... 8~

Which leads to the question, what will one do at the end of the universe? That restaurant will be closed...

erikals
07-22-2013, 10:46 AM
well, you know what they say, probably it will just expand again... for to then create a new one...

shrox
07-22-2013, 10:58 AM
well, you know what they say, probably it will just expand again... for to then create a new one...

I mean if one had made oneself temporally immortal, what will you do at the end of the universe? Nothing temporal can get beyond that.

erikals
07-22-2013, 11:04 AM
well, at the end of the universe you might very well be sick of the whole thing anyway...

Stewardess: We Are Going Down Captain...!!..!!
Captain: Great...!!! ... Finally...!! Let me put on my Happy-Hat...!!

:hat:

shrox
07-22-2013, 11:47 AM
well, at the end of the universe you might very well be sick of the whole thing anyway...

Stewardess: We Are Going Down Captain...!!..!!
Captain: Great...!!! ... Finally...!! Let me put on my Happy-Hat...!!

:hat:

I would not want an immortal body if I found myself marooned and drifting in open intergalactic space. Billions of years completely out of reach of a single thing.

erikals
07-22-2013, 12:03 PM
but what if you combined the immortal body with a hibernation function in the body.
you could just shut down "temporarily"... :]

"temporarily" might in this case be for a long time, but heck, it's not like you would notice.

bazsa73
07-22-2013, 02:35 PM
i would go literally mad adrifting in space for aeons, we were not meant to live that long

Megalodon2.0
07-22-2013, 04:08 PM
well, you know what they say, probably it will just expand again... for to then create a new one...
Right now, the scientific concensus is that OUR universe will continue to expand and ultimately become dead, cold and dark. Even with the elusive dark matter, there isn't enough matter in the KNOWN universe to bring contraction and another Big Bang. Currently the galaxies are moving away from each other VERY fast - no sign of contraction unfortunately.

I mean if one had made oneself temporally immortal, what will you do at the end of the universe? Nothing temporal can get beyond that.
Even the "end of the universe" isn't the end of time. Just because the known universe is cold, dark and dead doesn't mean that time ceases. But then... we're only talking about OUR universe - not other universes, parallel universes, different dimensions, etc. Most theoretical physicists believe that there is more than one universe. We can only see about 14 billion light years (or thereabouts) in any direction. So the "bubble" of our universe is only what WE can see. There may be other "bubble universes" just outside of our view. I think that the "known universe" is FAR smaller than... for lack of a better phrase... all of creation. (For the record, I'm agnostic.) ;)

i would go literally mad adrifting in space for aeons, we were not meant to live that long
You could say the same thing about people dying - and their hearts are replaced. THEY were not "meant" to live that long. Perhaps in our current form we are not "made" to live for thousands of years. But give ourselves time... we may be able to live thousands of years and enjoy exploring the universe. I see no problem living that long and simply exploring. How long do you think it would take us to JUST explore OUR galaxy? And then how many galaxies are there? To be able to simply explore... THAT would be a wonderful gift.

erikals
07-22-2013, 04:11 PM
right, if so, i'll just jump to another universe before that happens... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/047.gif

Megalodon2.0
07-22-2013, 04:20 PM
right, if so, i'll just jump to another universe before that happens... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/047.gif

Sounds like a good idea to me. If you consider the possibility of immortality, I would bet that we WILL be able to do something like that. Then again... I wouldn't be surprised if we did find a way to collapse the known universe and "make it in our image." :)

erikals
07-22-2013, 04:42 PM
that said, few timelines are as exiting as this one http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
be glad that you are kicking now, not 1000 years ago... then again, who knows... :o

shrox
07-22-2013, 05:03 PM
...be glad that you are kicking now, not 1000 years ago... then again, who knows... :o

How do you know I haven't?

erikals
07-22-2013, 07:10 PM
everyone knows people don't get that old,
only Hamsters get to that age...

shrox
07-22-2013, 08:58 PM
everyone knows people don't get that old,
only Hamsters get to that age...

Actually I am a dead parrot, nailed to a perch.

erikals
07-23-2013, 04:54 AM
hehe, poor thing. http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
rest in parrot-peace...

meshpig
07-24-2013, 04:29 AM
Homeless masses have always been around, perhaps they are allowed to exist to keep the rest of us frightened & clocking-in to our jobs everyday?
The system works because it isn't fixed, if you solve all problems & create a 'Utopian world' I think it would be an awful place, certainly a form of ideological & cultural iconoclasm. Who wants to live there?

Conversely, spend some time in india if you will and see what a world with no fixes looks like. I mean "Brave New World" and "1984" I'm not sure are even read in secondary schools these days :)

meshpig
07-27-2013, 04:37 AM
Right that's me off on holiday....enjoy the future!

http://youtu.be/DczLuyOvrOg
FZ

Torremolinas this time no doubt :) It has finally dawned on me though after having been irritated in the extreme for quite a while by your neo-nazi blog that AGW Skepticism goes hand in hand with Intelligent Design. Case closed.

JonW
07-27-2013, 04:54 AM
Actually I am a dead parrot, nailed to a perch.

I'm a lorikeet having an afternoon rest!

erikals
07-27-2013, 05:12 AM
is it dead...? :/

JonW
07-27-2013, 06:31 AM
is it dead...? :/

It's about 4 weeks old & it is resting, it flew off about 3 weeks later. Lorikeets if they feel safe will sleep on the back!

meshpig
07-27-2013, 06:47 AM
Lorikeets like Cockatoos don't really rest as they constantly bang-on about their territory... Monty Python jokes you can leave to the know-all Brits :)

meshpig
07-27-2013, 07:18 AM
Hey JonW, does Marcello Goddard the Kings Cross/Darlo busker haven't seen him for 15 yrs ring a bell by any chance?

meshpig
07-27-2013, 08:59 AM
Oh well, no matter but you obviously missed out on the jack-boot Glebe Digital blog where every kind of 2 bit loser got to have a go at Jews, Women, Leftists, Gays, Environmentalists and even Whales... but f that s I feel like standing up as a Communist sometimes against those ignorant carnts with all their weak as p*ss conspiracy theories and "Triumph of the Will" kind of mediocre sh*t. Communists make money too but without whinging about it :)

glebe digital
08-01-2013, 03:13 AM
Oh meshpig you ARE funny. . . . .A chip on both shoulders perhaps.
No blog can avoid the odd 2-bit loser, yet you seem to have conveniently forgotten my defense of Jews, women, gays et al.....accusing people of being Nazis when they're on holiday isn't exactly cricket, but the antipodeans seem to have lost their bearings on that one too.

A sign of the times?

meshpig
08-05-2013, 07:06 AM
Nah, I'm stoic and tough as an old boot. Defend who you like but you won't catch me defending something as ridiculous as Cricket.

- I think Winnie figured though that Hitler wasn't the full quid when he too was on Holiday (perpetually) ? ... :) I mean for FS there are many blogs of any persuasion and it seems to be the case rather that Rhetoric has lost it's bearing: not a sign of the times but the "post modern condition" (a working hypothesis). Books at least didn't spit in your eye or reduce everything to one dimension.

meshpig
08-05-2013, 07:41 AM
... Have you read the "Fountainhead" (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2122.The_Fountainhead) yet? Masculinity is the key as the Protagonist is just one of those useful men who pose no danger to society but willingly submits to an "higher power", that of the Investors who believed in Frank Lloyd Wright ... Rhetorically speaking too remember that the Hollywood Black lists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist) post WW2 were a bit of the supposed "axis of evil" or the then soviet regime in the heartland itself.

I think I can see the sky falling...

shrox
08-05-2013, 12:13 PM
The Fountainhead is a great book. I see much of myself in Roark, and Galt from Atlas Shrugged too.

meshpig
08-06-2013, 04:19 AM
Yes it's a gripping read and of course every artist would identify with Roark.

dsol
08-06-2013, 04:41 AM
I liked The Fountainhead very much. As a treatise on the importance of self-integrity and the value of the individual, it's an amazing book.
Atlas Shrugged was terrible, and though I certainly think Ms. Rand was quite smart, she really didn't understand the way capitalism and economics really work. It's the worst kind of fantasy - if only because it inspired some people to apply its fantasy logic to the real world, at terrible social and economic cost.

meshpig
08-07-2013, 02:25 AM
I liked The Fountainhead very much. As a treatise on the importance of self-integrity and the value of the individual, it's an amazing book.
Atlas Shrugged was terrible, and though I certainly think Ms. Rand was quite smart, she really didn't understand the way capitalism and economics really work. It's the worst kind of fantasy - if only because it inspired some people to apply its fantasy logic to the real world, at terrible social and economic cost.

Ha, that's the one :) ; "Capitalism" is everything everyone says it is not just the idealists who think it ought to serve them.

- Ayyn Rand I think you'll find is still pretty high on the Conservative reading list yet they'd be the first to scorn romance novels period. Atlas Shrugged i agree was too long, laboured and dreadful.

meshpig
08-07-2013, 04:44 AM
... I think what really threw me about Glebe's Blog was that it seemed to emanate from the 1960's where the Yanks hadn't yet won the space race or the arms race and in the background the annihilation of Vietnam crystallised the extent to which Nations were prepared to go to defend "Capitalism" against it's enemies.

It wasn't Capitalism so much though that was being defended, ( it had obviously already won ) rather the idea of Empire. The US got the bomb even though the Soviets won the war when they took Berlin... everything since has been "post modern"; the dissolution of the Soviet Bloc for example wasn't about ideology or capitalism but a deal done for Russian Oil.

- AGW is occurring in fact but what it all means is anyone's guess.

glebe digital
08-07-2013, 05:07 AM
"Before us stands yesterday"

The Great Game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game

meshpig
08-07-2013, 05:22 AM
Yep, but in the C19 there was no such thing as inflation, economics was properly named the "dismal science" and everything was dandy until WW1.

meshpig
08-07-2013, 05:44 AM
... the problem with the "state" as it were is like the role of the King in Chess. In reality it's the Queen, his representative and then her retinue which does all the damage. You cant get to the king because he's the lowest common denominator, impotent, an amputee and can only hobble one step at a time yet the whole object of the game is to put him under arrest. Bizarre since he isn't going anywhere in a hurry.

Principle of Inertia, then of course you have the substance and attribute scenario where the same sun shines through 20 different windows.

meshpig
08-07-2013, 06:28 AM
I think you'll agree that the Executive and Legislative arms of Government don't quite add up to the same thing as the great figment of the "state"; 50 years ago it was the hint of being a communist now it's the hint of being part of a much older war.

- Capital has it's own fight with the state and regulalry reduces it to rubble, then builds it back up using public money. Even if that's just the way of things how stupid do the Conservatives look when all they're really saying is "we'll help make the sun rise tomorrow morning". Man-Nature-Industry.

glebe digital
08-07-2013, 11:33 AM
However there have been a number of inflationary waves -or price revolutions- each beginning in a period of equilibrium: the High Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Victorian Age. Each revolution was marked by continuing inflation, a widening gap between rich and poor, increasing instability, and finally a crisis at 'the crest of the wave' characterized by social and political upheaval, and some degree of economic collapse.

Are we perhaps at the crest of the next wave?

shrox
08-07-2013, 12:05 PM
The greed component is not really addressed in Atlas Shrugged either, amassing wealth just to have it, rather than using wealth as a tool for betterment, whether self or public.
What we see today is the amassing of wealth on a scale never seen before, with no real goal other than self gratification in objects rather than self-gratification through satisfaction in one's doings.
I'd like a steady stream of $100,000 a year, 40,000 for living and 60,000 for experiments and research. That would be enough for me. Of course more funds for experiments and research would be welcome...the only $1000 shoes I would wear would be real moon boots.

Gold is for insulation and conducting electricity, diamonds are for heat sinks and cutting.

meshpig
08-08-2013, 03:58 AM
However there have been a number of inflationary waves -or price revolutions- each beginning in a period of equilibrium: the High Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Victorian Age. Each revolution was marked by continuing inflation, a widening gap between rich and poor, increasing instability, and finally a crisis at 'the crest of the wave' characterized by social and political upheaval, and some degree of economic collapse.

Are we perhaps at the crest of the next wave?

I think that's a little bit of a 'Fall of Rome" question though. Over that entire span of history it's hard to see how price inflation and monetary inflation match up even though the Magna Carta includes details such as the value?/price of a pig or a wheelbarrow. You know, boom and bust is relatively new on the scale it is today. "Feast and Famine" of course on the other hand, being one of the most detrimental factors affecting genes (behold yesterday) since the dawn of civilisation; rather than being proof of anything rational suggests we are both "nature" and "nurture" simultaneously. Rational and irrational with a good measure of each in the other. Thus there's little point in trying to disentwine Man from Industry and Industry from Nature.

- Ironically what ultimately disincorporated the British Aristocracy was industrial finance...

meshpig
08-08-2013, 05:28 AM
The greed component is not really addressed in Atlas Shrugged either, amassing wealth just to have it, rather than using wealth as a tool for betterment, whether self or public.
What we see today is the amassing of wealth on a scale never seen before, with no real goal other than self gratification in objects rather than self-gratification through satisfaction in one's doings.
I'd like a steady stream of $100,000 a year, 40,000 for living and 60,000 for experiments and research. That would be enough for me. Of course more funds for experiments and research would be welcome...the only $1000 shoes I would wear would be real moon boots.

Gold is for insulation and conducting electricity, diamonds are for heat sinks and cutting.


I'd say the amassing of wealth is the measure if not the constant on the large scale, that is after all what the state violently came into being for sometime during the Palaeolithic era: to hoard and conserve as an end in itself.

meshpig
08-08-2013, 06:10 AM
... when I get around to reading through it I'll post the link to some interesting science involving obesity and rats. How obesity isn't genetically passed on but consequent to dopamine levels environmentally: the good old amphetamine weight loss treatments of the 1950's before the "war on drugs and communism" ruled them out were on the right track. Ooh, now I sound like an old fashioned Journalist :)

meshpig
08-08-2013, 07:23 AM
... Holiday snap: Sirmione 25 minutes west of Verona. An Isthmus on Lake Garda and Italy is easy travelling. Hey Nat Geo, GFYM.

meshpig
08-13-2013, 06:08 AM
I came actoss this though;

http://www.wakeupcall.org/china_india_comparision/china_india_chart.php

I think for those strange individuals who worry about Capitalism not reaching the developing world, all their wildest fantasises are being played out there as we speak.

- India being barely over the British (Empire) doesn't even tax it's burgeoning IT industry whereas China is reaping the "benefit" of an autocratic state which transformed it's Feudal order only recently ... just as Britain once did under the equally ruthless and autocratic Tudors.
- There's no doubt either that the transformation from a Feudal order to a Capitalist order doesn't negate the former and that Marx's critique of Capitalism 130 years ago still stands: the "middle class" is the middle class. Babies, refrigerators and mortgages and incapable of doing much else but of course on the large scale... we must produce more cars and more babies :)
- When Nationalist's refer to the "Nation" i guess they dont have any idea of how slowly these great glaciers actually move? The sum total for example of Hitler's maniacal suicidal state was appropriately, projectiles, weapons. The Autobahn. Fast moving futuristic things?
- The "individual and the State" in anycase is just as precarious either way; "Libertarianism" appeals no less to one and the same thing as "Feminism" if not only media attention.
- The axiom of capitalism though is so basic one can barely call it linguistic:
The classic definition of Language being where 3 Bees hover over a food source and Bee 1 conveys to Bee 2 where it is. Smells, chemicals... but when Bee 2 tells Bee 3 that Bee 1 told him that it was there at point x, that's Linguistic communication. Hearsay.

meshpig
08-13-2013, 06:49 AM
...SO, as an old friend of mine who seems to have a lifelong job in banking once said: "why do we need a Franz Kafka when we have an Ian Botham". It's "our" country.

meshpig
08-15-2013, 04:24 AM
No takers?

- “The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.” :)

lesterfoster
08-26-2013, 12:31 AM
Joe Rogan Questions Everything S01E03 - Full Episode [HD]



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hBl9dUoWkYQ



Hope you enjoyed
thanks

meshpig
08-31-2013, 02:39 AM
Joe Rogan Questions Everything S01E03 - Full Episode [HD]
Hope you enjoyed
thanks

You can always rely on the yanks to conflate everything into one big chocolate coated donut. You don't need all this futurism to be able to see how machines can make humans into robots but they can't make robots into humans even if "Intelligence" is AI too. The dumb thing though is even if humans are just machines the difference between a "machine" and an "human" would be in the order of the few extra billion years of R&D that made humans... perfectly adapted to existing and surviving in small groups on a big planet.

- Your immune system for example, is a sophisticated nano-machine installed at the very core of your "being" so to speak and it reproduces itself all by itself with every new arrival on the planet. Without it you wouldn't last long, when it malfunctions it destroys the organism which relies on it but mostly it works like any machine just doing the one thing.

- The immune system is obviously intelligent, capable of self reinvention and reproduction... but like any machine it becomes conspicuous only when it ceases to do what it's supposed to do.

is it capable of "taking over the world"? Well, disease kills more humans than war or any other human invention so maybe human inventions are the future!:)

meshpig
09-01-2013, 04:58 AM
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG153jhiIEI

JonW
09-01-2013, 05:34 AM
“When emperor Tony takes over we may prefer to die in the next heat wave!”

First Dog On The Moon

Buddy.Hannon
09-02-2013, 09:23 AM
I'm still awaiting the arrival of my Jet Pack, promised to me when I was 6 years old!
There is no future without the Jet Pack! :)

JonW
09-02-2013, 04:24 PM
I'm still awaiting the arrival of my Jet Pack, promised to me when I was 6 years old!
There is no future without the Jet Pack! :)

http://www.toxel.com/tech/2010/03/10/jet-packs-go-on-sale-in-new-zealand/

You can get them now but they are far larger than we were told when we were 6!

erikals
09-02-2013, 04:31 PM
nah, too big, what happened to the 1968 one... >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgsXkGUE8ro

but this,this is more like it...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4arnATc04U

meshpig
09-14-2013, 12:51 AM
“When emperor Tony takes over we may prefer to die in the next heat wave!”

First Dog On The Moon

Well he has, and by hook or by crook. He seems to have stage fright presently though I did see a shot of him with the "Top Brass" because he's such a wimpy gimpy little bully-boy he needs a bit of State bolstering from the tough guys in the Military.

- "We have a mandate from the australian people". OK, lets disambiguate the word "Mandate". It means "he" can officially form Government. That's it. Nothing more.

The Conservatives are good at keeping the sky blue, the Sun in orbit around the Earth and stopping the sky from falling.

meshpig
09-14-2013, 02:25 AM
... and to put it on the other boot to right-wing enthusiasts like Digital Glebe, watch how the sanctimonious "owner's and shooters party" ( the Liberal party of Austalia) wreck the 'economy' and blame it on either the former incumbents or welfare cheats and unmarried lesbians DRAINING THE ECONOMY a'la Rupert Murdoch who pays no freakin tax here and where the average taxpayer funds concessions for the rich annually to the tune of more than the budget deficit.

The poor Dears who've been TEA: taxed enuff already ( what, like they've never heard of an accountant? ). I mean how can you afford lots and lots of privately owned guns to defend yourself against the government if the same government is... like any government, part of the state apparatus which is fundamentally taxation? Are they for real? No of course not, they're an impotent bunch of over-heated losers without a freakin clue.

pinkmouse
09-14-2013, 03:18 AM
Politics. :(

meshpig
09-14-2013, 04:14 AM
Politics. :(

You mean Politics and Religion? Yes but that's only for post prandial situations where you've invited the boss and his wife over and everyone realises the guy is a complete moron. The idea is you don't tell him to his face by broaching the subject. The Bible also says...

What, so we have to tacitly express ourselves via football teams?

pinkmouse
09-14-2013, 04:26 AM
Football...:(

Now if the rules said we could discuss politics, but only via the route of LW animations, I could cope with that. :D

meshpig
09-14-2013, 05:10 AM
HIERARCHY
ROOT MANH183_Hips
{
OFFSET 0 0 0
CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Yrotation Zrotation Xrotation
JOINT MANH183_RightUpLeg
{
OFFSET -0.0843147 -0.0639229 -0.0316919
CHANNELS 3 Yrotation Zrotation Xrotation
JOINT MANH183_RightUpLegRoll
{
OFFSET 0.213206 -1.06581e-16 -1.65201e-15
CHANNELS 3 Yrotation Zrotation Xrotation
JOINT MANH183_RightLeg
{

:)

glebe digital
09-14-2013, 01:06 PM
Centrist Libertarian Anarcho-Capitalist 'enthusiast'.......let's get it right.

So what's that rig then....the Oz goose-step? Here's an idea, begin production on "Springtime for Abbot" a gay romp with Tony and Marge in Warringah... boy what a show!

The Carbon Tax killed the Left, blame Global Cooling I mean Warming.

shrox
09-14-2013, 01:26 PM
It's like Rutger Hauer said on the set of Bladerunner, the future is old.

glebe digital
09-14-2013, 01:48 PM
"People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome."

George Orwell, Partisan Review, Winter 1945

shrox
09-14-2013, 02:25 PM
117108

meshpig
09-16-2013, 04:06 AM
Centrist Libertarian Anarcho-Capitalist 'enthusiast'.......let's get it right.

So what's that rig then....the Oz goose-step? Here's an idea, begin production on "Springtime for Abbot" a gay romp with Tony and Marge in Warringah... boy what a show!

The Carbon Tax killed the Left, blame Global Cooling I mean Warming.

Well informed, but keep watching.

- The Carbon Tax in actual fact is/was pretty insignificant either way. What it isn't responsible for was the huge hike in power prices we've seen here in the past 3 years with LNG from offshore now matching all this onshore CSG mining statewide, which relies on coaxing small investors into equally small but manifold ventures. Most of the CSG is really deep in the "Capital intensive" desert. That hasn't happened yet, but that's what's behind the %60 rise in LNG retail not the %6 from the Carbon Tax. Whoa but what a storm about nothing reaction from the wanna-be's? Now the Conservatives also can't make up their mind about a perfunctory non-issue like foreign investment because it conflicts with their STOP THE ASIAN INVASION routine.

- Ah yes, Warringah. Forward to the 1950's. Why spend $140 000 on a car only to sit in a 3 hour traffic jam both ways? Spring-time for Abbot? Maybe in Germany... definitely in Waarroonggaahh.

See, people supposedly want a Leader. A Leader who is like a Father or a cardboard woman with no wet stuff involved. End of subject.

- Ha ha, I dunno. "Right wing" will do. Libertarianism isn't exactly Centrist and "Anarchist" is just an ambiguous term for yobo skinhead. It's like there's a fine membrane between the traditional notions of far right and far left which confuses most people to the point of complete stupidity.

meshpig
09-16-2013, 04:40 AM
"People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome."

George Orwell, Partisan Review, Winter 1945

Glebe, by your own reckoning; Surely Orwell is a little dated? He did after all work for the US.gov at one point to specifically dob-in the odd communist/anti-authoritarian/anti-establishment target?

ANPR. No rego stickers... Auto Number Plate Recognition. "Big Brother" is not the "Nanny State" according to that interminable dipstick on Top Gear, it's miscellaneous. The commercial "State" is already here so don't really understand why people fight so hard against the old categories as if. It's somewhat amusing but not really.

meshpig
09-16-2013, 05:30 AM
... sorry, the rig? Man Bending Over. The Goose-Step wouldn't really work here, there's too much open space. Everything is spread out. Besides all you need is the 'Daily Telegraph' to spook the average punter.

meshpig
09-16-2013, 05:47 AM
It's like Rutger Hauer said on the set of Bladerunner, the future is old.

Yeah and then he says;"I've seen things you'd never believe...starships on fire off the rings of Orion. A time to die". A timely death? Nah, you have to read that as the rule of the "good and the righteous" against the exceptions. The rule of taste in favour of the mediocre... the CONSERVATIVES.

meshpig
09-16-2013, 06:39 AM
... "In the National interest": The single biggest Con these half-witted shopkeepers try to wreak with their so called "mandate".

True Grit 1969 style:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-cPWheNyaA

meshpig
09-16-2013, 08:01 AM
I'm sure how much of a dud Abbot is is all over the shop so I won't bang on about it. We all have to suffer these bumpkins for only god knows how long?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quyB8PMTD3o

meshpig
09-16-2013, 09:51 AM
OK, let's look at Rupert Murdoch for example. The Establishment here in the 1960's called him a Communist ( for being anti-establishment) and it was just by sheer good luck that his interests in the small suburban rags paid-off and still do, then he became an American Citizen and moved to NYC.

Um, Howard Hughes was a brilliant entrepreneur until he sustained a TBI and went postal.

Robert Carnegie died of a broken heart.

The inventor of the modern CPU was chemically castrated after solving the Enigma code for being a poof.

- Yet you averaged-out, grayscaled-type middle of the Bell-curve, sanctimonious hypocrits sit back and say YES, CaPITALISM without engaging the least risk or so much as fart in a gust of wind. Chip on yer freakin shoulder... the world you advocate despite your small emissions is one where only the sh*t rises.

shrox
09-16-2013, 11:08 AM
Yeah and then he says;"I've seen things you'd never believe...starships on fire off the rings of Orion. A time to die". A timely death? Nah, you have to read that as the rule of the "good and the righteous" against the exceptions. The rule of taste in favour of the mediocre... the CONSERVATIVES.

I was quoting the actor Rutger Hauer and his take on the sets, not the character...

glebe digital
09-16-2013, 11:13 AM
Scum tends to rise in every pot, no matter the ingredients.....you just have to keep stirring it.

shrox
09-16-2013, 12:54 PM
Scum tends to rise in every pot, no matter the ingredients.....you just have to keep stirring it.

No no no! You skim it off...

glebe digital
09-16-2013, 12:58 PM
No no no! You skim it off...

Ha! Yep I think you have me.

meshpig
09-17-2013, 02:03 AM
I was quoting the actor Rutger Hauer and his take on the sets, not the character...

Yeah i know, but what would a B-Grade actor know about anything? He's much more interesting as Roy :)

meshpig
09-17-2013, 07:46 PM
Scum tends to rise in every pot, no matter the ingredients.....you just have to keep stirring it.


Who said anything about scum? It's the unwritten law of Organisations that "..." and "Libertarianism" is about as far from "freedom of the individual" as the US gun lobby saying "more guns would have prevented 'Sandy Hook' ", is from logic itself. But society isn't logical, politics even less so. Being a climate change skeptic is just as much an ideological fantasy as being a member of the 3 legged lesbians against 4 sided triangles action group :)

It comes down to the question of rights. On the Left it's about making the right to be able do something which wasn't there before e.g. the right to terminate a pregnancy, the right for black people to vote, for women to vote, for women and catholics to be able to own property, for Jews to be able to join social clubs etc. etc.

On the Right it's about defending existing rights .e.g the right to bear arms, the right to slap your wife around, the right to sack your employees, the right to own property, the right to pass your property to your offspring, the right to incorporation
... all of which at one point in History had to be made by someone. None of which were simply granted.

Notwithstanding of course those who fight for rights with no reasonable basis.

The "Right" however haven't necessarily also been the "Establishment" ( Hitler's admiration for the British Empire? ) for more than 100 years thus it's a strange situation where you have individuals defending the rights of mining companies over themselves in the hope that there's always going to be enough money to borrow so bank's can extort %50 of it back as interest.

You have to be pretty shrewd to be able to figure out what most legislation is and it's near impossible to dissociate that from what the 2 ideological themes in the Westminster system represent. Therein lies what Governments actually do and there
it's assigned to the annals of Hisiory.

images of radical feminists burning their bras and "land rights for gay whales" are nothing if not quaint compared to those of non radical feminists protesting in front of their wineries against a gas mine, or if you like even a wind farm because mining companies already own the planet like the Dutch East India Company once owned Jamaica.


:)

meshpig
09-18-2013, 02:03 AM
... Being an "anarcho-capitalist" of course after all really only requires that you believe whatever Rupert Murdoch thinks is good for his business. Business isn't rocket science so he can think what he likes.

He could also be King Ludwig for what it's worth. Ah, but he's another frozen head who thinks he's immortal or at least will live until he's a hundret and twenty four. It is true that his mother had longevity but we just can't stir you guys enough :)

glebe digital
09-18-2013, 02:57 AM
re: scum........I'm sorry if I was being obtuse, it was a reference to your statement that sh*t rises.

I took issue with the 'climate debate' because it was a distortion of the scientific method for ideological ends, and indeed we're already seeing the IPCC rowing back from it's inflated claims of circa 2007.
But you do make an interesting point, perhaps it is indeed an ideological fantasy to expect any kind of honesty in policy making.

meshpig
09-18-2013, 05:06 AM
You crack me up, no apologies needed Minister. In actual fact the IPCC hasn't done anything of the sort and the scientific method is just as sound as CSIRO's go-ahead for CSG mining with the obvious caveats regarding the uncertain effect on water tables. You know it isn't resolved though when the farmers start barking at the miners, Minister because someone is pissing in their trough. So to speak Minister.

Minister can i also direct your attention to the aforementioned document sub section b of the addendum 612 clause 2.21 bx_h where it says, honourable member that by ranting about dishonesty we miraculously come to resolution 5.1 of sub section 645 of v_003 of section 3a-b5?

Yep. But all this started in 1066 and one must remember that so many times in my work history I've resorted to a contract lawyer or a labour lawyer and won in order to push back the perrenial class-war of incompetent "back to basics conservative government". We must stop the boats, we must stop the carbon tax, we must right tha canoe even though it's upright, we must sack a shed load of public servants because they don't vote for us, kill off social security and make the bastards work for a pittance and see if they still wanna vote green, rip everything out of the ground and burn it, blow refugees out of the water before they get anywhere near here, let employers choose what super fund employees lose on fees, subsidise billionaires for having native offspring, subsidise private health to spite the Labor party, mine great barrier reef, SWAT the workers. it makes you wonder because we're top bracket income earners and none of that sh*t even vaguely appeals.

glebe digital
09-18-2013, 06:05 AM
Which reminds me of that line in Withnail & I: "Shat on by Tories, shovelled up by Labour"
It's all game where only the system itself wins.

Sacking public-sector workers because 'they don't vote for us' seems little different from the other side increasing the public-sector to create a voting block of dependents. Can either side really lay claim to a moral/ethical highground?

For instance, dissagreeing with the arguments for 'alternative' energy does not automatically make one a goose-stepping neo-con......and wanting to protect Vietnamese boat-people need not make one a communist.

meshpig
09-18-2013, 07:58 AM
That's a bit petty if only because neither is it about saving money. The neo cons are happy to re-hire the same at twice the price so long as there are kick-backs to the firms which do the hiring. You know, restructuring is just renaming, it's the same **** with a different badge.

Did you oppose the introduction of seat-belts, catalytic converters and unleaded petrol or non CFC aerosol sprays? No of course not. Some of this environmental stuff is just plain perfunctory and so what if the public service provides a slightly lees slavish and arse kicking, arse licking work model? The PS is full of corporate refugees with shitloads of knowledge who don't want to be selling corporate BS at any price not just the B&B (born and bred). Oh no though , everyone has to get an haircut real high and reapply for their job at a lower rate when the Saints come marching in.

The PS too was the genius of Empire from Byzantium to Britain at one point. Are you telling me the pile of paper accumulating on my bench from my happy go lucky corporate providers isn't "little black sambo" getting tigers to chase their tails and make butter for pancakes?

- I'm just watching Abbot being "sworn in" as it were. OK, he seems to think he's Elizabeth Regina. OMG, maybe we will see a gay romp with nim and his anorexic daughters through the Warringah Mall?

Mate, all I can say is Cricket. Champion stuff, a great moment in sporting history. A gold medal performance for a gold medal nation from a gold medal winner. Beam me up Scotty.

glebe digital
09-18-2013, 03:35 PM
Well indeed I can't argue with that. Trouble is there's nowhere else to beam up to.

meshpig
09-20-2013, 12:29 AM
That would be the point wouldn't it Scotty?

- Abbot decommissioned the "Climate Change Commission" yesterday. He'll stop the boats i think sometime next Monday at 3:14 pm. Phew, that was close.

Perhaps we're all about to find out here just what a flimsy and scientifically baseless, totally fraudulent, ideologically driven and insidious bluff the anti-AGW Con really is (excuse the adjectival overkill).

Most of us already know of course that it's just a well crafted device for confusing the "issues", brow-beating Governments, making Science into a Quest for the Holy Grail and getting extreme right wing parties into office. It works though!

- One only has to look at another "scientific" fabrication the extreme right have deployed in recent times; namely "Intelligent Design" to see the same ends are in mind. A nifty little thang intended to rewrite school curriculums wherever it took hold to the tune of "traditional values". Didn't take hold here because people aren't that )*(())_ stupid and the conservatives have formed fewer governments overall.

One thing you absolutely can't do in politics is convince anyone by reason alone. We all arrived here on planet Earth with a great capacity to be blindsided by the obvious, thus Politics is coercion like coercion is Capitalist society. But of course you already know that.

My guess is once people here realise they've been thoroughly had because this slime politics has oozed in from Britain and taken hold, "every second 457…" will restart the Republic debate. The Environmental "debate" too will get a shot in the arm since the pathological liars will be spinning their wheels trying to substantiate their populist fantasies :)

meshpig
09-20-2013, 02:23 AM
Also can you send me a copy of the Conservative's handbook? I'm tired of thinking for myself. You know, it's in the top drawer somewhere à la mairie :)

meshpig
09-20-2013, 04:28 AM
... and of course your Giordano Bruno signature quote actually applies more readily to the blue-tie interlopers. May I suggest that Orkney is still reeling from the "Viking" of Orkneyjar?

Britain. It's your problem not ours.

meshpig
10-05-2013, 04:45 AM
... not meaning to sound like a skite ( in the local sense of the word... ) but I think the entire world can also see what the TEA party is good for :)

warmiak
10-05-2013, 02:36 PM
Also can you send me a copy of the Conservative's handbook? I'm tired of thinking for myself. You know, it's in the top drawer somewhere à la mairie :)

You don't need the conservative handbook ... you already have the other one.

Megalodon2.0
10-05-2013, 03:12 PM
... not meaning to sound like a skite ( in the local sense of the word... ) but I think the entire world can also see what the TEA party is good for :)

Yeah... lining the bottom of a bird cage. ;)

meshpig
10-07-2013, 12:56 AM
You don't need the conservative handbook ... you already have the other one.

I'm just saying, those hapless morons on commercial radio can spray all they like about whatever. Only the weak and the feeble minded with a stomach for drivel can digest it.

meshpig
10-07-2013, 01:09 AM
Yeah... lining the bottom of a bird cage. ;)

It must be ever so slightly annoying? I love the way these shonky and myopic conservatives think :)

Megalodon2.0
10-07-2013, 01:53 AM
I'm just saying, those hapless morons on commercial radio can spray all they like about whatever. Only the weak and the feeble minded with a stomach for drivel can digest it.
Low information voters. These "radio guys" take whatever prejudice their viewers may have and inflate it so that these people feel it's okay to think that way. If you ever listen to these conservative radio guys, it's really sad how much BS that people accept.


It must be ever so slightly annoying? I love the way these shonky and myopic conservatives think :)
Did you say THINK? ROTFLMFAO. I know you didn't really mean to use that word. :jester:

SBowie
10-07-2013, 07:10 AM
Well, this seems to have drifted a bit, doesn't it. 'nuff said.