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View Full Version : Apple Does it Again......



lwanmtr
06-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Steve Jobs must be rolling in his grave about the latest from Apple

Next Gen Mac Pro.....or Mac-Mini on steroids....

New Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/?cid=wwa-us-kwg-mac-aos&siclientid=5899&sessguid=e17aca05-840f-4190-a2b8-3478e25bb5be&userguid=e17aca05-840f-4190-a2b8-3478e25bb5be&permguid=e17aca05-840f-4190-a2b8-3478e25bb5be)

No PCI
No Internal HD Expansion
AMD Fire Pro is the only option?
No DVI Ports

Seriously....Whats Apple thinking?

I think the central cooling is a nice idea, but thats where it ends for me.

They're missing the point of the Mac Pro....Expandability. The people who use the beasts dont care about the size as much as the Slots, HD bays, and the option to swap their graphics cards.

Seruously bad mistake which I think will cost Apple quite alot...which is sad because I still prefer it over any Windows based computer.

3dWannabe
06-26-2013, 02:14 PM
Hey - you forgot the "max number of Xeons = 1" 'feature'!! After all, why would anyone want dual CPUs?

Any thank God nVidia isn't inside (or able to be inside). Who would want that unpopular CUDA nonsense anyway? It'll never catch on.

VonBon
06-26-2013, 02:15 PM
Its Apple, they know whats best for you. :twak:

lwanmtr
06-26-2013, 02:17 PM
Actually, I think It can handle Dual CPU's, given that it says up to 12 cores...AFAIK there are no 12 core single CPU's.

Even Dual CPU's dont help this abomination....lol

Phil
06-26-2013, 02:21 PM
I'm sure there are threads about this already elsewhere. Yup, one quick forum search later :

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?135944-New-Mac-Pro
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?135939-new-mac-pro-on-it-s-way

I don't see much to complain about, but I'm sure the price will be eye watering.

- - - Updated - - -


Actually, I think It can handle Dual CPU's, given that it says up to 12 cores...AFAIK there are no 12 core single CPU's.

Even Dual CPU's dont help this abomination....lol

As far as I know, it's a single package 12 core CPU. Haswell-E, I believe. From what I've seen Haswell-E is planned to go up to 16 cores in a single package.

lwanmtr
06-26-2013, 02:24 PM
Ahh ok. Nice to know there are 12 core cpu's....still doesnt change my opinion...lol

Skonk
06-27-2013, 06:26 AM
It's a huge waste of money but people will lap it up regardless.

shenhua
06-27-2013, 06:34 AM
From Big Apple to aPple:

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/51b9ee8c6bb3f7d74e000035/the-new-mac-pro-looks-like-a-nyc-subway-trash-can.jpg

dsol
06-27-2013, 06:55 AM
Hey, if you don't like it, don't buy one ;)
But the guys from The Foundry did a demo of MARI running on one the day after it was announced, and said it was the fastest they'd seen it running yet! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuAsOyzawNY

The single CPU socket design does indeed suck, but hopefully it'll keep the prices down a bit (the Intel CPU is one component cost that Apple can't do much about compared to their competition) - and the dual GPUs as standard will provide tremendous performance once software is optimised for it. I think it's not entirely surprising that they didn't use Nvidia GPUs - as (just like they did with Flash on iPad) they don't want to see propriety APIs (that are locked to a single vendor) become "standards" - and would much rather push OpenCL.

So the new Mac Pro is a GPU-monster - but more importantly, an OpenCL monster. This also makes sense historically if you look at the SOCs (the A5/A6 chips) in their iOS devices, which have solid, but underwhelming CPU performance, but huge GPU performance. Apple really likes GPUs :)

hrgiger
06-27-2013, 09:58 AM
That's it. My next computer is going to be a PC. I mean, it was going to be anyway, but this eliminates any doubt.

JoePoe
06-27-2013, 10:30 AM
The MARI demo can not be brushed aside without consideration.
AND, the newest OpenCL versions of AE & Premier etc outperform CUDA in speed AND efficiency.

I know full well the incredible strength and prevalence of adoption of CUDA throughout the industry(ies) right now .... I'm just looking, with an eyebrow raised, at some new numbers.
Apple is obviously trying to force the issue. The new Pro does little for me now if I want to keep up .... with the present.
There will need to be some pretty quick (and I mean damn quick .... and that's not the way it usually works, is it) across the board software adoption of OpenCL for this thing to start making viable inroads (in whatever their target market is.... still a little confused on that :)).

It strikes me as funny how most people (including myself at times) vilify Apple for their lockdown approach, but don't seem to mind Nvidia's strangle hold.
I guess it's not so weird... they like (and are already invested in :hey:) the particular juice Nvidia is selling, and, apparently, they don't like.... Apple juice. :ohmy:

dsol
06-27-2013, 10:34 AM
If Octane and Turbulence are ported to use OpenCL instead of CUDA, then one of principle annoyances with the new MP go away for Mac LW users. It's not out of the bounds of possibility - there are cross-compilers to do so, though performance isn't great and there's still a few holes in the OpenCL spec compared to CUDA (though it does have some advantages too - like integrating really well with OpenGL 4).

http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2420

3dWannabe
06-27-2013, 10:51 AM
Anyone who wants to go the Apple path, my sympathies to you. I've got a Mac Pro that after Apple's treachery with FCP now only gets used for Logic Pro. I switched totally to Win7 for everything else.

I don't have to deal with all the issues I see running on Macs with Premiere and Lightwave, and the lack of plug-ins for OSX.

I spend a lot of time in the file manager, and Window's Directory Opus runs circles around Path Finder in terms of power and ease of use.

The only thing I miss on Win7 is the excellent ControllerMate from orderedbytes.com - which makes your mouse/HID run on steroids on OSX.

At least now with the new Mac Pro, you won't have to worry about not being able to run the latest video cards that would run in your machine if only you had the drivers ... as it's all locked down. It used to be "yesterday's technology ... today".

Tobian
06-27-2013, 11:07 AM
Well with retina-level displays you're going to need heavy GPU compute, so it's kinda a given, though it does beg the question, if you're going to put 2 GPU's on one computer, which is a custom design, why not just put them on the same card.. :)

There has been somewhat of a swing away from multi-socket designs of late, so it's kinda within that trend. With multi-cpu's on a single chip, and lots of them, it gets redundant to have more than one, but still it would be nice. Hopefully apple can get OpenCL dragged up to the stage that CUDA is at, because it has been lagging, and not many things actually run on OpenCL.

It's a bold design, but one thing which does raise it's head, is: If you're going to put all of your peripherals externally, then what kind of enclosure will you build? Smells like an opportunity for overpriced enclosures, which look like pedal bins :D The thundercat expansion port is actually pretty powerful, allowing for video/data and even expansion cards to run on it, it's just like many apple innovations: entirely dependant on 3Rd parties taking them up and using it, just like Display port and Firewire before it, just slightly disappointing, and never went anywhere

vncnt
06-27-2013, 12:44 PM
I'm sure there are threads about this already elsewhere.

Stop right now!
Before I laugh myself to death.

I still have warm feeling for my C64 (somewhere in the basement) but that doesn´t mean you need to buy one to get the job done.

dsol
06-27-2013, 04:31 PM
Anyone who wants to go the Apple path, my sympathies to you. I've got a Mac Pro that after Apple's treachery with FCP now only gets used for Logic Pro. I switched totally to Win7 for everything else.

FCPX is worth another look. I hated it too (as a long-time FCP user) but, having spent some time learning it, I used it on a couple of jobs recently and was really impressed. It's *very* different from tradtional track-based editors though, and there's definitely things that need improving in there. But having had to switch back to FCP7 to pick up an older job, I was genuinely surprised by how clunky it felt now.

Premiere Pro is OK, but FCPX definitely deserves consideration. The way you can easily build custom plugins in Motion is insanely cool too

lwanmtr
06-27-2013, 04:34 PM
I very much doubt Apple will make any updates to FCP...even DVD Studio Pro hasnt seen any much needed updating

zarti
06-27-2013, 04:49 PM
i have read somewhere ' thei will slowly ignore dhe desktop market .. and phokus onli on mobile teknologjy ' .

maybe that's becomng true .

as a personal xperience : i got only one product from 'them' .. and that was a first gen iphone .

its screen is broken but works ( not using it actually ) .

ill try to keep it alive and maybe sell it after 30 years more than i bought .

i need to profit somehow from using their ultra-cool-superb design and not-from-this-planet metals .



a sweet transition to every apple-consumer !

.cheers

JonW
06-27-2013, 06:54 PM
Still using my old Nokia, must be 10 years old, can barely read it, no camera, button paint has worn off & everywhere else as well.
Battery is still going!

dsol
06-28-2013, 02:07 AM
I very much doubt Apple will make any updates to FCP...even DVD Studio Pro hasnt seen any much needed updating

FCP Studio is dead. Apple killed it when they announced FCPX - and that means any apps from Studio that didn't go in the app store (FCPX, Motion and Compressor) are EOL'd. I was personally kind of annoyed by the lack of updates to DVD studio pro (even before that), but I guess they decided that DVD as a format didn't have much of a future so investing time in improving authoring tools for that format was pointless. I should look at Encore really, since Adobe still seem to be supporting that.

lwanmtr
06-28-2013, 03:11 AM
The most annoying thing about DVD Studio Pro was that internally, it supports the creation of Bluray format...however it's not able to burn to bluray, you have to go to another app.

I've played with Encore a little and its definately a good replacement, although i prefer the workflow in dvd studio pro.

dwburman
06-30-2013, 04:52 PM
But having had to switch back to FCP7 to pick up an older job, I was genuinely surprised by how clunky it felt now.


FCP always felt clunky to me in some ways... no GUI support for plugins... the way some effects didn't get applied in sequence I.e. you couldn't use a color corrector effect to fix chroma key spill because the 3wayCC would change the pre-keyed footage even when it was placed after the key effect. There were some other things that bugged me about it too, but that true with almost all software. I haven't tried FCPX yet. Hopefully they will continue improving it.

Changing everything all at once is something Apple doesn't shy away from... at least not in hardware. When they switched to PCI-X slots they didn't bother having any PCI slots in the new machines (a common practice among other motherboard manufacturers). We had a $1500 real time MPEG 2 encoder card we would've liked to move into a newer machine, but it got stuck in an aging G4 BOX.

Backwards compatibility? That's crazy talk. :-)

m.d.
06-30-2013, 05:31 PM
FCP Studio is dead. Apple killed it when they announced FCPX - and that means any apps from Studio that didn't go in the app store (FCPX, Motion and Compressor) are EOL'd. I was personally kind of annoyed by the lack of updates to DVD studio pro (even before that), but I guess they decided that DVD as a format didn't have much of a future so investing time in improving authoring tools for that format was pointless. I should look at Encore really, since Adobe still seem to be supporting that.

Encore is dead...not in CC stops at CS6

BigHache
06-30-2013, 09:45 PM
I do like Apple products and the design of the new machine is nice.

The problem is now that Apple has moved completely away from anything anyone else has, it's a completely proprietary hardware system so when something breaks, and it will, you HAVE to go to Apple for repair. Oh, and what happens when the new shiny comes out. You just throw this one away because nothing can be upgraded. In that regard, good job, Apple.

I don't consider expandability via Thunderbolt port. I have to buy another piece of hardware to use the nVidia card that I want? Why should I?

My experience with FCPX has been good. I went in with the mindset of learning the workflow it wanted and there are many things I like about it. But you definitely CANNOT go into it with FCP workflow mindset and expect to continue working. Not gonna happen.