PDA

View Full Version : Challenging Rigs...



RebelHill
06-17-2013, 08:37 AM
So... a thought just occurred to me (which tbh Im surprised I didnt think of sooner...

Since Im working though my new rigging tuts series... http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?136039-RH-Rigging-Tutorials-Version-2!

which has a projects section where I take folk through the building of a few different types of rig setup, why not see what could be added?

Obviously I cant include EVERYTHING, and Im mainly trying to offer a diverse range of setups that will help users learn certain lessons applicable to many situations... But, if any of you have got interesting models, characters, or whatever, and wonder how one might go about rigging them... hows about offering them up? If anyone's got anything particularly interesting (or difficult) they might well be worth including... Obviously, Im trying to cover as much as I can, but I may well not have thought of everything that people may want to know or find useful.

So yeah... if u do... lemme know.

Cheers.

Fsoto
06-17-2013, 09:26 AM
Greetings,
I am still in the story phase of my project, but will soon need to rig a bird. I am thinking; it would be nice to have a tutorial on how to stretch and fold a bird wing.

thanks,
felipe

Mac OS X

tonybliss
06-17-2013, 09:33 AM
effective python snake rig covering all its movements

Ma3rk
06-17-2013, 11:14 AM
That's quite an invite.

I've a Dungeness crab that I've been fiddling with for some time but just can't get it rigged the way I'd like. Tried Genoma but lacking some basic understanding of it to modify it's presets or components to fit what I need. I was waiting for Lino to surface again to quiz him but haven't had any luck getting responses.

I dropped back and was re-studying your reverse foot tut's and that seems to be the best bet but got side tracked onto another project.

If that sounds of interest, let me know.

M.

nickdigital
06-17-2013, 11:19 AM
I think something with tentacles (octopus, squid) is always very challenging to rig.

UnCommonGrafx
06-17-2013, 11:21 AM
+1 for a Bird rig.

++1 for a Bird rig that's not insane.

A tree rig: how to grow.

You already have the car rig.

An origami folding rig: how would one go about setting up an origami fold of a swan, e.g.

RebelHill
06-17-2013, 11:39 AM
Interesting ideas...

Snakey, tailey, tentacley things are always MORE than a challenge in LW. I had planned to put in some stuff on long chain type bits like that... but for the most part, these fancy such rigs u see in maya/max/et al rely on tools like path constraints, spline IK and lattice deforms... tools which LW lacks, hence, there's not really a lot u can do rig wise for such systems. So bits along that line, sure... but there wont be anything too fancy sadly.

Bird bits I can totally add... just thinking about it now Im having brain thoughts about things that would be interesting to illustrate, so thats good.

Crabby... sure, no problem, he (she) can go in.

Cheers for the thoughts so far.

bobakabob
06-17-2013, 11:53 AM
Facial rigging I'd love to know more about (I rely purely on morphs) but I imagine you already thought of that...?

Ma3rk
06-19-2013, 04:22 PM
So, RH...

Should we send you files privately or ...?

hrgiger
06-19-2013, 05:43 PM
How about working with different clothing types on a character. Either cloth or or apparel that works with bones vs those that work with dynamics. Also along those same lines, rigging things that move with the character that aren't necessarily clothing or apparel (ex. a quiver of arrows on the back or sword sheath, a backpack, etc...). Just some ideas.

Ryan Roye
06-19-2013, 06:16 PM
nakey, tailey, tentacley things are always MORE than a challenge in LW. I had planned to put in some stuff on long chain type bits like that... but for the most part, these fancy such rigs u see in maya/max/et al rely on tools like path constraints, spline IK and lattice deforms... tools which LW lacks, hence, there's not really a lot u can do rig wise for such systems.

This is entirely false and could not be further from the truth. I'll leave it at that.

Ryan Roye
06-19-2013, 08:11 PM
I figured I'd pitch in an idea as well:

Setting up a rig, or part of a rig that can interact with other character's limbs/appendages/parts at specific points (pre-determined or not, and can be toggled easily), and move/rotate relative to the movement/orientation of another object (interacting with other characters/props based on their XYZ/HPB movement). So, if I had a box, and it rotated/moved in any direction the character's arm/fingers would move appropriately... and vice versa. This is knowledge I think people would find quite valuable and it is quite doable in Lightwave. If that's already been covered then that's cool.

chikega
06-20-2013, 10:12 PM
I have to develop a anatomically correct articulated mandible for dental school teaching. The mandible is simply not a simple hinge axis as if often portrayed in most characters but is rather a hybrid joint that pivots up to a certain point before it slides out and downward (so as not to crush the windpipe) .. evolutionary as humans stood upright. It can also pivot in one joint, etc... it's a fascinating joint and I'm sure I'll need your help Craig figuring a proper rig for this :)

kfinla
06-21-2013, 10:19 AM
I know LW is missing some key pieces, but I'd love to see an expert attempt to setup a muscle rig in LW. Perhaps attempting to tame Bullet cloth for skin.

I also like the bird/wing topic.

erikals
06-21-2013, 07:18 PM
Snakey, tailey, tentacley things are always MORE than a challenge in LW. I had planned to put in some stuff on long chain type bits like that... but for the most part, these fancy such rigs u see in maya/max/et al rely on tools like path constraints, spline IK and lattice deforms... tools which LW lacks, hence, there's not really a lot u can do rig wise for such systems. So bits along that line, sure... but there wont be anything too fancy sadly.


This is entirely false and could not be further from the truth. I'll leave it at that.

i'll have to agree with Ryan here, IKB can really kick for those kind of things.
Octopus Rig = IKBooster
it's also dang nice as it can copy tentacle poses / animations

using IKB for other Rigs, that's a subject of its own.

jwiede
06-22-2013, 04:43 AM
i'll have to agree with Ryan here, IKB can really kick for those kind of things.
Octopus Rig = IKBooster
Hmm, there's more to an octopus/squid than its tentacles, though, so without a lattice deformer how would you handle the Octopus "head".

RebelHill
06-22-2013, 04:49 AM
This is entirely false and could not be further from the truth. I'll leave it at that.

Well please don't leave at that... show me, lets see it in action.

See I'll agree, its entirely possible to get decent enough tails, or flagella setups in LW, either using IKB or the regular toolset, BUT... snakes, tentacles... TOTALLY different beast. Notice for instance the way tentacles flop, roll on, and PEEL off as such a creature "walks"... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjQr3lRACPI This kinda "IK-pathed" behaviour is very difficult to get. Go also look at some of the rigs done elsewhere... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHTNL73vK0I http://vimeo.com/35477023 http://vimeo.com/9399676 which handle all these different kind of wave and curl and wrap behaviours.

Consider snakes, and the way they can rol and twist their bodies, but which when slithering push them along a path... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVqhiY2ib1c

Is it possible to get some of these different controls and behaviours setup in LW... sure (see attachment), but they're pretty much single behaviour specialist setups, which wont interact with other tools properly, or which cant be switched out to other behaviours, or, due to their control mechanism, cant easily perform other kinds of motions.

Ofc Im not saying that you cant do ANYTHING along these lines in LW... but what you can achieve is pretty basic and very limited. Fancier, more intricate stuff... forget it. But by all means, Im more than happy to be proven wrong.

As for the other bits mentioned... Props interaction... already got that slated for inclusion. The funny jaw mechanism... Okies, I can take that as an example along the way, pretty simple.

And yes... meshes, if you wanna send em... just email em to me, be more than happy to give them an inclusion. Ofc, if you're not happy about then having them included as content with the series, let me know, as Ill have to whip up alternates along the same lines.

Cheers all.

stobbs
06-22-2013, 05:50 AM
A fish / whale... something that has a motion cycle and deforms along its motion path. I used bones / dp spline deformer but I wondered if there was an 'all-rig' solution.

ianr
06-22-2013, 07:32 AM
Question:How many people does it take to lobby
for a full ' Chuck Jones' lattice in mod & layout.
Is it worth polling for LW12? Just a side thought
Well done RH sofar.

erikals
06-22-2013, 08:39 AM
See I'll agree, its entirely possible to get decent enough tails, or flagella setups in LW, either using IKB or the regular toolset, BUT... snakes, tentacles... TOTALLY different beast.
yes, well, i guess the question here is to what extent. if one is to create a superior Octopus rig in LightWave, then no, not possible.
but i'd say that goes for other apps as well. it's just not possible (or read, extremely difficult) because of the Octopus dynamics...

gotto fly...
an experiment would be cool i guess, for another thread, flyin'

RebelHill
06-22-2013, 08:43 AM
yes, well, i guess the question here is to what extent. if one is to create a superior Octopus rig in LightWave, then no, not possible.
but i'd say that goes for other apps as well. it's just not possible (or read, extremely difficult) because of the Octopus dynamics...

Yes... tough in other apps too... a LOT of the really good rigs for such things you see are done via custom built tools expressly for the purpose, but still... due to things such as spline IK path constraints, etc being available in the vanilla package you can get far better then you can in LW with its default tools Im afraid.

hrgiger
06-22-2013, 10:31 AM
RH have you looked at achieving better results in lightwave via fabric engine? Pooby posted a link to it yesterday or the day before here in the community section.

RebelHill
06-22-2013, 10:40 AM
Until there's tools in LW to allow fabric engine to talk to it... aint nothing can be done.

Waves of light
06-23-2013, 01:20 AM
What about a jellyfish? I can't imagine trying to setup and rig that so that the movement is fluid and lifelike. The motion of its main body, along will the following motion of the trailing tentacles.

erikals
06-23-2013, 01:50 AM
dynamics :]

not quite sure how i would go about it, but i'd use some kind of dynamics setup...

Ma3rk
06-23-2013, 11:40 AM
What about a jellyfish? I can't imagine trying to setup and rig that so that the movement is fluid and lifelike. The motion of its main body, along will the following motion of the trailing tentacles.

Not sure if this is available as a separate tutorial, but Dave Jarrard demoed doing this at an LALWUG meeting a year or so ago. You might dig into past videos on YouTube to find it.

Waves of light
06-23-2013, 03:01 PM
Not sure if this is available as a separate tutorial, but Dave Jarrard demoed doing this at an LALWUG meeting a year or so ago. You might dig into past videos on YouTube to find it.


I will have to see if I can find that one. cheers Ma3rk.

erikals
06-23-2013, 10:25 PM
surfed, and found this >

http://vimeo.com/61025266

geo_n
06-24-2013, 12:36 AM
Setting up rigs with automatic secondary animation without using dynamics like bunny ears, tail, etc. Traditional and nodal approach.

Waves of light
06-24-2013, 12:50 AM
surfed, and found this >

http://vimeo.com/61025266

Thanks man! Do you ever sleep?

erikals
06-24-2013, 03:30 AM
Thanks man! Do you ever sleep?

nope, and yes, i have a big head... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/wink.gif


Setting up rigs with automatic secondary animation without using dynamics like bunny ears, tail, etc. Traditional and nodal approach.

related stuff, SpringyThingy >


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpFzPBx6Ewk

TalleyJC
06-24-2013, 08:30 AM
Hey Craig ... I think you rigged an ED 209 a zillion years ago Maybe update that?

littlewaves
06-26-2013, 08:07 AM
Hey Craig ... I think you rigged an ED 209 a zillion years ago Maybe update that?

anybody else bored to tears of seeing E-BLOODY-209 (or some derivative clone) on every other rigging/animation/modelling showreel?

No?

Just me then. Carry on.

TalleyJC
06-26-2013, 11:46 AM
Sorry to ruffle your feathers, but I'm talking about Craig's particular skills. The 209 isn't as much the point as the stuff craig comes up with like autowalking and such. Where others might have used the 209 in some animation that could be done with just pivot points and nulls - Craig tends to do interesting stuff.

RebelHill
06-26-2013, 12:08 PM
Automatic secondary motion... Not really a lot on offer LW tool wise. You can setup dynamics (cloth) on some mesh, then point constrain bones to it (so its a post process)... that gets seen (basically) in the node series already. Otherwise there's IKB bone dynamics... and that's the lot pretty much. So very little to tell.

As for ED209... I agree that the "mech" is overdone, but ED provides a couple of particularly unique challenges, mainly... in the mechanic of his legs, which don't just "joint-bend", they also have the extendable "pillar" system in the lower leg portion. Getting that to work right can take a bit of thinking about... so might be worth a mention.

TalleyJC
06-26-2013, 01:47 PM
Yep that's what I remember from your walk cycle... you were the only person I had seen at the time that did it correctly. Everyone else had rigged it like a chicken walker from star wars with inverted knees... when ed has no knees

allabulle
06-26-2013, 06:59 PM
Well, it's been said in the RHR v2 announcement thread but I wouldn't let it pass here: eyelids!

I hope it hasn't been said already in this thread. If it has, I apologize.

BokadCastle
06-26-2013, 08:31 PM
Cicadas are great. For me, they're the sound of summer.
They have legs, they have wings, faces, textures, colours and I used to put them in my pocket and take 'em to school (loooong time ago).
Watch this -
Return of the Cicadas
http://vimeo.com/66688653