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Spinland
06-15-2013, 08:39 AM
Not sure whether this is Mac-specific so posting it in General.

Fogbugz 61280:


When I open a scene with FFX instances, all instances are duplicated. Unchecking one also unchecks its duplicate. Trying to deactivate any instance crashes Layout. This happens both when I open a scene with FFX instances created in 11.5, and when I clear all FFX instances in 11.5, open the scene in 11.5.1, and re-create the FFX instances in 11.5.1. As soon as I save and re-open the scene in 11.5.1 the FFX instances are again duplicated.

Spinland
06-15-2013, 09:00 AM
Just booted my MacBook Pro into Windows 7/64, installed 11.5.1 and tried again: same duplication of the FFX instances, same crash if I try to deactivate one of them.

Spinland
06-15-2013, 09:08 AM
Okay, I've narrowed this down some. The problem goes away if, when I re-create the FFX instances in 11.5.1, I do them by hand instead of loading saved FFX settings. The workaround appears to be to write down your settings from 11.5, deactivate everything, and re-create the FFX instances by hand in 11.5.1.

Spinland
06-15-2013, 09:20 AM
Here's NT's response to my last update:


That's probably a safe bet, as there were issues 'like this' that were fixed -- and what it's probably doing is just manifesting itself in the 'loading back a version'

So for this, I would suggest doing it "straight" in 11.5.1, and not loading from an old scene

JoePoe
06-15-2013, 10:15 AM
Here's NT's response to my last update:

THe optimist in me assumes that by saying "So for this, I would suggest doing it "straight" in 11.5.1, and not loading from an old scene",
they actually mean "So for this, I would suggest doing it "straight" in 11.5.1, and not loading from an old scene..... while we work to fix the problem!!!!"

That has to be what they mean, right? The quote makes it sound like the old joke: Patient> "Hey Doc, it hurts when I do this!" Doctor> "Then don't do that." :foreheads

Spinland
06-15-2013, 10:23 AM
Well, I just used 11.5 to clear out the FFX instances on a scene, then loaded it up in 11.5.1. Re-created the FFX instances by hand, saved off the settings and the scene. Tried loading both and everything works fine. My understanding is there's a disconnect between the two FFX plugin versions so you can't use any old instances, either directly or by loading their settings, or they corrupt the new one.

Cageman
06-15-2013, 01:22 PM
THe optimist in me assumes that by saying "So for this, I would suggest doing it "straight" in 11.5.1, and not loading from an old scene",
they actually mean "So for this, I would suggest doing it "straight" in 11.5.1, and not loading from an old scene..... while we work to fix the problem!!!!"

That has to be what they mean, right? The quote makes it sound like the old joke: Patient> "Hey Doc, it hurts when I do this!" Doctor> "Then don't do that." :foreheads

No... the fix they have implemented made it incompatible with earlier versions of FFX. That might be unfortunate, but, in order to progress and fix things, it might be totally impossible to make it compatible with an earlier version.

As LW-users, we should probably get prepared for such things with future updates, because in the long run it is better, short term it might hurt.

:)

jwiede
06-15-2013, 02:29 PM
No... the fix they have implemented made it incompatible with earlier versions of FFX. That might be unfortunate, but, in order to progress and fix things, it might be totally impossible to make it compatible with an earlier version.
That's all well and good, but then they shouldn't load the old version of the file at all. Loading the data (incorrectly) and letting the app go into a likely unstable state is neither good UX nor good quality practice (there's a whole genre of similar UX issues in LW). The "fix", to inform the user the data isn't being loaded for compatibility reasons, is trivial to implement and superior from both UX and quality perspectives.

jwiede
06-15-2013, 02:32 PM
No... the fix they have implemented made it incompatible with earlier versions of FFX. That might be unfortunate, but, in order to progress and fix things, it might be totally impossible to make it compatible with an earlier version.
That's all well and good, but then they shouldn't load the old version of the file at all. Loading the incompatible data and letting the app go into a likely unstable state is neither good UX nor good quality practice (there's a whole genre of similar UX issues in LW). The "fix", to inform the user the data isn't being loaded for compatibility reasons, is trivial to implement and superior from both UX and quality perspectives.

Spinland
06-15-2013, 02:34 PM
That's all well and good, but then they shouldn't load the old version of the file at all.

Agreed. At the very least, something should be boldfaced in the readme and/or change list to let us know not to try to load old FFX scenes--and what about someone who's deleted their 11.5 already in favor of 11.5.1? I know of no way to proceed without first using 11.5 to deactivate all the FFX instances and re-save the scene.

Cageman
06-15-2013, 03:33 PM
I do not disagree for a second with you (jwiede and Spinland) about how warnings, error-messages etc should warn the users.

The only thing I do disagree with here, is the notion of installing a new version of LW over the old one. Every user of any software knows that a new version might do things with the content created with the previous version, and as such, the user install the new version to a new location. This might not be the case for regular 2D software, but 3D software is a whole other type of ballgame. Just saying. :)

That said, LW11.5.1 should install to a LW11.5.1. specific folder by default, and also look for configurationfiles in a new folder. This change was made so that users, without user intervention, should be able to have 11.5.0 and 11.5.1 co-existing.

Did the Mac-installer do this by default, or did it not? If not, fog it, because it should.

Spinland
06-15-2013, 03:47 PM
No, Cageman, it does so by default as it should, and I do know well enough never to delete an old version until I'm positive I don't need it (I still have 11.0.3 installed, too). I was just voicing a concern for people who might not do that, as just one more reason we should get early and clear warning about this sort of thing.