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cresshead
06-10-2013, 12:10 PM
have to say it looks fantastic!

i guess the price will be huge though

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/970731_10151640816037871_290957403_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/999257_10151640816042871_461633650_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/999664_10151640816067871_321859157_n.jpg

Dexter2999
06-10-2013, 01:14 PM
"If you can't say something nice..."

I'll be quiet now.

BTW More here... http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

3dworks
06-10-2013, 01:20 PM
some more infos here: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/at-long-last-apple-announces-new-mac-pro-with-cylindrical-design/

dual ATI fire pro GPU's as standard, totally expandable via thunderbolt 2, full opengl 4 support, PCI-E based flash drive as boot volume doesn't sound too bad!

cheers

markus

4dartist
06-10-2013, 01:28 PM
Can you really expand a graphics card via thunderbolt2? Is it as fast as an internal card? That's pretty much my main concern with it.

Dexter2999
06-10-2013, 01:35 PM
You can expand the graphics through the Thunderbolt2. And Thunderbolt2 is faster than your PCIe slots you are currently using. (I believe.)

CaptainMarlowe
06-10-2013, 03:13 PM
I don't even dare to think about the price, but it is sure a bold rethinking of the mac pro.

3dworks
06-10-2013, 03:20 PM
more to look at there: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/the-new-mac-pro-you-cant-buy-it-yet-but-you-can-look/

raymondtrace
06-10-2013, 03:39 PM
The top looks like it can hold and warm a cup of coffee... not the greatest design idea.

m.d.
06-10-2013, 04:12 PM
You can expand the graphics through the Thunderbolt2. And Thunderbolt2 is faster than your PCIe slots you are currently using. (I believe.)

not even close Dexter...;D
PCIv3 16x is 126,000 mbits per second...vs 20,000 for thunderbolt 2....or about 1/5th the badwidth...

its equal to about 3 pci v3 lanes or 6 pci v2 lanes....

can it still run a video card though? Probably....its basically 12 v1 pci lanes...

3dworks
06-10-2013, 04:30 PM
not even close Dexter...;D
PCIv3 16x is 126,000 mbits per second...vs 20,000 for thunderbolt 2....or about 1/5th the badwidth...

its equal to about 3 pci v3 lanes or 6 pci v2 lanes....

can it still run a video card though? Probably....its basically 12 v1 pci lanes...

but did you consider that there are 6 thunderbolt 2 ports?

some expansion chassis are already existing, like this one
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresschassis.html or this one
http://www.magma.com/expressbox-3t

probably someone is working on this, at least at magma you can find such a comment "Graphics Card Support - External graphics support is a feature many users desire and we’ll keep you informed. Be the first to know... Join Magma Expresso."

m.d.
06-10-2013, 04:50 PM
there are six....ports...but an external box will still only be 1 channel.....unless you know of a tech that will aggregate 2 TB channels

i have been following those boxes for years....i'm not saying it won't happen...but they have a lot of problems already with lower bandwidth cards like a red rocket....which they have been running at 4 lane pciv2 speeds....over thunderbolt 1....and a video card running full steam needs alot more bandwidth then a red rocket

an external gpu expansion will happen...but that doesn't change the fact the the bandwidth is 1/5 that of a full pci express x16 slot

TheDynamo
06-10-2013, 04:55 PM
Leave it to Apple to create an accessory based Pro system. How much do you want to bet that the connectors will need a slightly altered thunderbolt port when it's released forcing you to buy adapters. I think I'll stick with my Macbook Pro when my i7 980x PC workstation goes kaput.

-Rob

m.d.
06-10-2013, 04:58 PM
for things like octane....and external GPU would run fine....as the limiting factor is how long it takes to send the scene to the GPU buffers....which would be negligible...
and probably for most things it would work ok....

the most stress would be put on by gaming...or high ploy opengl....but you still have quite a bit of bandwidth with TB2

ive seen some tests where a x16 gpu was put in a v1 slot and a v2 slot....and performance dropped about 30% (in gaming)

it all depends on the application....the built in firepro's are pretty freaking powerful by themselves though

Dexter2999
06-10-2013, 04:58 PM
not even close Dexter...;D
PCIv3 16x is 126,000 mbits per second...vs 20,000 for thunderbolt 2....or about 1/5th the badwidth...

its equal to about 3 pci v3 lanes or 6 pci v2 lanes....

can it still run a video card though? Probably....its basically 12 v1 pci lanes...

That math doesn't sound right. The article I read on Tom's Hardware said PCIe3 x16 is 16,000Mbs. not 126,000.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-the-PCI-Express/190
I'm okay with the part about 20,000Mbs for Thunderbolt2. And if you were talking PCIe v4 then that doubles the rate to 32,000 which would be faster than Th2.

The Apple page says you can connect up to three 4K displays so I imagine that one 4K display is going to take two Th2 slots?

m.d.
06-10-2013, 05:05 PM
http://www.pcisig.com/news_room/faqs/pcie3.0_faq/#EQ1

1 giga bytes per second per lane = 16 giga bytes per second...16 * 8 = 128

bits not bytes

I was being more precise as the exact spec is 126gb...which is bigger then 20gb...5 times the size

m.d.
06-10-2013, 05:08 PM
That math doesn't sound right. The article I read on Tom's Hardware said PCIe3 x16 is 16,000Mbs. not 126,000.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-the-PCI-Express/190


thats per lane dexter.....like i said TB 2 is equal to 3 lanes pci v3

JonW
06-10-2013, 05:13 PM
I think most who require dual CPU boxes need, is straight forward functionality. The box needs to be rack mountable & stackable (I have 4 boxes on top of each other behind a door). I am quite happy with a pressed steel box, & fit out the box for my own needs (more CPU & less other stuff!).

m.d.
06-10-2013, 05:19 PM
The Apple page says you can connect up to three 4K displays so I imagine that one 4K display is going to take two Th2 slots?
probably the limit of the cards...TB2 can do 4k over a single connection

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7049/intel-thunderbolt-2-everything-you-need-to-know

interesting that thunderbolt is only connected via 4x pci v2
meaning no matter how fast the cable....it will be limited to 2GB/sec or 16,000mb (16gb) per second...not 20gb so 60% faster then TB1

JoePoe
06-10-2013, 06:25 PM
probably the limit of the cards...

From the presentation on the Apple website - GPU section:
"you’ll be able to do things like seamlessly edit full-resolution 4K video while simultaneously rendering effects in the background — and still have enough power to connect up to three high-resolution 4K displays."

Pretty hefty claim.... that I would really like to believe.

(btw: silly me, I was looking for this thread over in the MAC section :D)

wesleycorgi
06-10-2013, 06:43 PM
Just watched the WWDC Keynote — interesting: they are doing a Foundry demo tomorrow with Pixar.

Rayek
06-10-2013, 11:08 PM
Meh. Don't like, don't dislike it. A bit underwhelming, but then, I have been running a Revodrive for a while now, so nothing new under the sun. Apple does like to make things proprietary, and with this model they sure went all the way. Also, based on the images on their website, it looks as if only one CPU is supported - no dual CPUs? Maybe Apple will have dual cpu boards as well. We'll see.

I just feel this is Apple going for form rather than function.

Btw, it *is* very small, is it not?

Some of the comments on the other boards are hilarious:


"Okay, desktop sales are at an all-time low. We need to take back the whole desktop market with something truly revolutionary. Let's make an entirely custom, non-standard shape that will be difficult to cool, cost $3k, and another fortune to upgrade!" Soon, the Apple board members became tired of patting each other on the back, and retired to the lounge where they enjoyed cigars with tobacco grown from seeds passed through the digestive system of a rare albino tiger, and sipping champagne from inverted human skulls.


...considering the myriad of truly professional options already available from the likes of Dell and BOXX. Sure, they're not shaped like sex-toys for elephants but they get the job done. [...] I'm not sure we live in economic times that allow us to justify paying premium prices knowing that a big chunk of what we're spending is going towards the looks rather than performance. On the other hand, I don't have the urge to hump my workstation so maybe i'm missing out on one of life's pleasures.

114858
114859
114860
114861

geo_n
06-10-2013, 11:27 PM
This will be successful. Its an apple.
Hope there's a new mac mini around october.

JonW
06-11-2013, 12:47 AM
Time for this one again! New Products?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

fazi69
06-11-2013, 03:09 AM
Hmmm...
114865

jwiede
06-11-2013, 03:57 AM
It looks gorgeous, both visually and in specs. As much as I love my current-gen MacPro, I'll be saving to upgrade I expect.

Spinland
06-11-2013, 09:20 AM
I guess my main concern is disk storage. At the price I expect the flash memory to command I don't see getting one with a lot of storage internally, so price points for external disk storage have to be factored in to the buy-in cost for this monster. I already do my work on a Mac Mini so I have several terabytes of USB storage on a powered hub I could hook right up as is, but I'm wondering where TB2 storage is going to end up in all this.

Spinland
06-11-2013, 10:00 AM
Heh. OWC isn't missing a beat: just sent me a marketing email chock full of external firewire and USB3 drive units billed as "WWDC Specials."

jrandom
06-11-2013, 10:07 AM
The only way this is going to fly is if they can bring down the price of TB2 enclosures.

3DGFXStudios
06-11-2013, 10:09 AM
It looks like a trashcan!

Spinland
06-11-2013, 10:12 AM
I actually find the sexy design wasted on me. If I get one it'll be stuffed into the CPU bay of my trusty old computer desk and never seen except on the rare occasion of needing to crawl behind it and plug something in.

jrandom
06-11-2013, 10:18 AM
At first I hated the design, but it's starting to grow on me a bit. All of my video/image/render drives are external anyways and this thing takes up a lot less space and has easier-to-access ports.

I'm not saying it's for everyone, but I... I think I'm starting to actually want one.

Spinland
06-11-2013, 10:22 AM
I've been awaiting the Mac pro reveal with interest, because I know at some point (being optimistic about the future of my little animation studio) I'm going to outgrow my quad core i7 Mini and need more horsepower--especially render cores. The Mac Pro seems a perfect fit (I really have all the screen real estate I need so an iMac would introduce a redundant screen), assuming the final price points aren't out of reach.

geo_n
06-11-2013, 10:27 AM
It looks like a trashcan!

Its a sexy space tech trashcan. :D
Put it in the livingroom its going to be the conversation maker. :D

dsol
06-11-2013, 10:36 AM
It's certainly interesting. Though being ATI-based, the lack of support for CUDA is an issue. Pretty sure Apple knows how much CUDA support there is out there compared to OpenCL, I guess this might be a political statement of intent, encouraging devs to get away from proprietary, single vendor APIs like CUDA and onto the OCL train. Anyway, things certainly just got interesting!

The biggest downside for me is the lack of RAM slots. I mean, you would expect their "pro" mac to have more memory slots than a freakin' iMac!

Spinland
06-11-2013, 10:39 AM
The biggest downside for me is the lack of RAM slots. I mean, you would expect their "pro" mac to have more memory slots than a freakin' iMac!

But given the monster memory those slots hold, maybe four is all you'd need to be able to stuff with with massive sticks.

jrandom
06-11-2013, 10:55 AM
Time to start saving up for four 64GB sticks from OWC...

JoePoe
06-11-2013, 01:26 PM
It's certainly interesting. Though being ATI-based, the lack of support for CUDA is an issue. Pretty sure Apple knows how much CUDA support there is out there compared to OpenCL, I guess this might be a political statement of intent, encouraging devs to get away from proprietary, single vendor APIs like CUDA and onto the OCL train. Anyway, things certainly just got interesting!...

YES! People accuse (and maybe rightly so) Apple of being insular. But isn't CUDA just as provincial...... either you're Nvidia or you are out.

Here is some AMD "propaganda" touting superior speed AND efficiency using openCL in the newest versions of the Adobe product line..... AE, Premier etc..... link (http://fireuser.com/P20/)

gristle
06-11-2013, 03:33 PM
Wow, how much effort went into making the PCBs and other internal stuff look sleek. Then they stuff it in a glossy sausage.
Obviously Mr Ives is free of his Jobbiness now...

jrandom
06-11-2013, 03:49 PM
Add an espresso machine in the center and you've got The Perfect Computing Environment.

Rayek
06-11-2013, 05:14 PM
At first I hated the design, but it's starting to grow on me a bit. All of my video/image/render drives are external anyways and this thing takes up a lot less space and has easier-to-access ports.

I'm not saying it's for everyone, but I... I think I'm starting to actually want one.

You, Sir, have just been transmogrified by Apple's reality distortion field.

;-)

Resist the Dark Side! Nooooooes!

Lightwolf
06-11-2013, 06:03 PM
Add an espresso machine in the center and you've got The Perfect Computing Environment.
114890

Cheers,
Mike

jrandom
06-11-2013, 07:33 PM
114890

Cheers,
Mike

Brilliant! And if burglars ever break in they won't know it's actually a state-of-the-art monster computer!

jrandom
06-11-2013, 07:36 PM
You, Sir, have just been transmogrified by Apple's reality distortion field.

;-)

Resist the Dark Side! Nooooooes!

I shall buy one and name it "Darth Monolith". AND I CAN PUT A PORTAL WARNING STICKER ON IT. Heck, this might just be the greatest computer design ever!

"Is... is that a nuclear reactor?"
"Why no, it's my... " *straightens bowtie pretentiously* "... MAC PRO TRASHCAN SPACEPROBE LIGHTWAVE ENLIGHTENMENT INDUCER COFFEEMAKER."

3dworks
06-12-2013, 02:09 AM
arstechnica made a point again with this comment: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/a-critical-look-at-the-new-mac-pro/

Lightwolf
06-12-2013, 02:10 AM
Brilliant! And if burglars ever break in they won't know it's actually a state-of-the-art monster computer!
I'm just afraid that the coffee maker will be worth more in 10-20 years time... ;)

Cheers,
Mike

JonW
06-12-2013, 02:42 AM
I'm just afraid that the coffee maker will be worth more in 10-20 years time... ;)
At the very least it will still make coffee!

You may even start using some 1800 metre Columbian beans in a few years, & it will even cope with a higher quality process as well!

50one
06-12-2013, 02:53 AM
My support of Apple wealth and their poor workers in Chinese sweat shops stopped when I bought iPad2.

New MacPro looks great but I suppose it will be useless after two years like most PCs these days, so it's kinda pointless to invest in it, at least for me.
If you got the money to spend, then sure, go for it, gonna look fab on your desk and surely it will make moist most of the girls you know;)

js33
06-12-2013, 03:05 AM
If you got the money to spend, then sure, go for it, gonna look fab on your desk and surely it will make moist most of the girls you know;)

That's always my main criteria for buying a new computer...:D

3dworks
06-12-2013, 03:47 AM
not sure if this has been posted here already: http://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/the-new-mac-pro-the-cube-comes-of-age/

very valid points made here, imo.

cheers

markus

50one
06-12-2013, 04:17 AM
not sure if this has been posted here already: http://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/the-new-mac-pro-the-cube-comes-of-age/

very valid points made here, imo.

cheers

markus

Well, I think we all know that Apple is not really following the concept of playing well with other hardware manufacturers and standards, that't why they keep changing the plugs in their mobile devices from version to version, so not really a surprising move I would say.

Lightwolf
06-12-2013, 04:19 AM
One thing that I'm wondering, given the design of the Pro, is if Apple is thinking about the possibility of a dual CPU, single GPU option. That could make it a lot more interesting for some.

I also expect a 4K Cinema Display to be available once the Pro launches. :D

Cheers,
Mike

v1u1ant
06-12-2013, 09:31 AM
Instead of making it round, why didnt they just make it in the shape of the apple symbol, and extrude??? That way it wouldnt look like the ashtray/wastebin it does. They've missed an opportunity IMHO.

Lightwolf
06-12-2013, 09:36 AM
Instead of making it round, why didnt they just make it in the shape of the apple symbol, and extrude??? That way it wouldnt look like the ashtray/wastebin it does. They've missed an opportunity IMHO.
Because it would be against just about every design principle that Ives has been preaching about for the past decade? ;)

Cheers,
Mike

DrStrik9
06-12-2013, 03:14 PM
This is disappointing. Too small (and undoubtedly cheap to make), there is no expansion except external.

Form follows Function, not the other way around. MacAmature. Sigh.

jrandom
06-12-2013, 03:22 PM
My support of Apple wealth and their poor workers in Chinese sweat shops stopped when I bought iPad2.

The new Mac Pro will be made in the U.S., I believe.

Lightwolf
06-12-2013, 03:31 PM
The new Mac Pro will be made in the U.S., I believe.
"assembled" and I wouldn't be surprised if the tariff on parts is lower than on complete computers.

Cheers,
Mike

Rayek
06-12-2013, 03:32 PM
I see melted MacPros in the future - people just can't help themselves putting stuff on top of other stuff.

"Honey, where did you put my book?"

"Oh, I left it on your computer"

*smoke filling the room*

"NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

gristle
06-12-2013, 03:39 PM
I see melted MacPros in the future - people just can't help themselves putting stuff on top of other stuff.

"Honey, where did you put my book?"

"Oh, I left it on your computer"

*smoke filling the room*

"NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

Haha, you are right about that! So I guess they learnt from the cube that a nice clear polycarbonate shell+heat=cracking, hence the metal outer.

kfinla
06-13-2013, 06:07 AM
I've read a comment or 2 that makes me think this may not be the only form factor. Perhaps we've just been shown the sexier looking single cpu config. Vs. a square or ovoid dual cpu setup.

I see a lot of ppl thinking the new MP will cost a fortune, but there is a pretty huge gamut of fire gl cards. I think the base model ( e5 2620 v2) could still come in between $2-2.5K USD (6 core), the mid 3700 USD (10 core), and high, 5-10K.. (12 core - dual? ) .. of course the GPU's could cost you as little as $450(w5000)-$3400(w9000) each. You've been able to configure a $20K mac pro since the g4 or g5 days.

As soon as I read the specs my cynical mind though Apple is making a statement with the hardware to 1) give the stagnant thunderbolt Eco-system a shot in the arm. 2) Give openCL a shot in the arm and get developers to not just support Cuda.

Unfortunately I also remember how much emphasis was put on 64-bit when I bought my MP 1,1, and how many years it took for the software to catch up. I fear the same hear, that this MP is too ahead of the curve, that the 7,1 will be the one to get not the 6,1.

cresshead
06-13-2013, 09:39 AM
Apple realese a cutaway phtoto of the white version due out in December

http://www.dwsupplies.com/ekmps/shops/dwsupplies/images/toilet-brush-holder-white-plastic-160-p.jpg

Rayek
06-13-2013, 10:04 AM
not sure if this has been posted here already: http://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/the-new-mac-pro-the-cube-comes-of-age/

very valid points made here, imo.

cheers

markus

Good article. Also a very good rebuttal post near the bottom by Neo, and this clarifies that Apple is definitely not targeting this new Mac Pro at high level editing and archival work.

jrandom
06-13-2013, 10:24 AM
Apple realese a cutaway phtoto of the white version due out in December

http://www.dwsupplies.com/ekmps/shops/dwsupplies/images/toilet-brush-holder-white-plastic-160-p.jpg

Wow, it's just stuffed full of fiber-optic interconnects! Now that's computer of the future!