PDA

View Full Version : VPR VS FPrime 3.51



simonlion
06-04-2013, 09:45 PM
Hello Every one.

I am have LW 11.5, and I do have the FPrime 3.51, I would like to know what is the different beetween FPrime, and VPR
What dose FPrime do that VPR can not do ?
Also I noticed few times that Lightwave Crashed, when Booth VPR and FPrime 3.51 were opened at the same time.
Thanks

Celshader
06-04-2013, 10:57 PM
Hello Every one.

I am have LW 11.5, and I do have the FPrime 3.51, I would like to know what is the different beetween FPrime, and VPR
What dose FPrime do that VPR can not do ?
Also I noticed few times that Lightwave Crashed, when Booth VPR and FPrime 3.51 were opened at the same time.
Thanks

I have not used FPrime for many years, but here is what I remember:

FPrime can pan and zoom into an image for a closer look from a given camera's perspective. VPR cannot do this.

However, VPR can work in the Perspective, Orthographic and Light Views. FPrime cannot do this.

geo_n
06-05-2013, 02:01 AM
Fprime is more than a previewer. It can render beautifully, easily, fast deforming animated objects. If you're not a heavy node surface user then fprime is still very useful.

BeeVee
06-05-2013, 02:02 AM
VPR is also Color Space-aware, where FPrime is not.

B

Netvudu
06-05-2013, 05:29 AM
which breaks the whole thing for FPrime, because color space is key for any scene with lighting and shading...this is, for ANY scene.

geo_n
06-05-2013, 05:47 AM
VPR is also Color Space-aware, where FPrime is not.

B

Yes that's a shame. Nonetheless a beautiful render is a beautiful render.
Some industry veterans don't even understand colorspace and linear workflow though and yet they won emmy awards and some work on real productions and actual studios. Can't remember who but one from a top studio even sets lw colorspace to linear and save to linear and imports to fusion, which is not correct. No linearization of images, lights, etc actually occured within lw. :D

prometheus
06-05-2013, 07:08 AM
which breaks the whole thing for FPrime, because color space is key for any scene with lighting and shading...this is, for ANY scene.

I rarely use the new color space options..unless I would have to do interior render, for outdoors I have it all set off/linear..
otherwise I think it looks to bleached out, same goes for some product renders.
It helps in many cases for interiors, but we have been managing without it for ages too.

Fprime can do iterative renderings where you can pause at any time and restart refinement, which you can not in Vpr, Fprime also lets you iterative render a sequence to a certain quality level, so you can play back at that lower level at a short time notice, then if youre satisfied, continue on the sequence but do it with higher quality.
You can also do this after you have closed lightwave and pick up from a former saved folder.

There is of course the issue of color space, and also an issue of FPrime not recognizing vertex normals properly.

Also..I like fprime preview windows, where you can size as you want without destroying work area viewports, and you can have at least 8 of them at the same time, switch cameras etc..with VPR
your stuck to viewport modes and having to drag viewports which can result in accidently moving objects or cameras etc.
I also though fprime was faster on some things, like radiosity.

Geo_n..well I do that to for above mentioned reason.
Michael

UnCommonGrafx
06-05-2013, 07:45 AM
Octane is the modern equivalent. With modern day technologies at work under the hood, it offers the ipr and f9 renderings of the gorgeous kind.
Since VPR can be used as a renderer, recognizing most all lw stuff, fprime lost its usefulness.

Snosrap
06-05-2013, 11:07 AM
I used FPrime the other day to render a line addition because I wanted the same look as previous renders - man is that thing FAST! Other than backward compatibilty with earlier scenes though, I never use it.

jwiede
06-05-2013, 12:25 PM
Since VPR can be used as a renderer, recognizing most all lw stuff, fprime lost its usefulness.
I disagree, I find FPrime's "separate window" (not taking up a viewport), ability to have multiple instances open, and resumable iteration still make it very useful in many circumstances. I also generally find FPrime's MC results cleaner substantially faster than LW's. Overall, I still find FPrime very useful, and worth dropping back to 9.6 on Mac in order to access.

prometheus
06-05-2013, 02:07 PM
I disagree, I find FPrime's "separate window" (not taking up a viewport), ability to have multiple instances open, and resumable iteration still make it very useful in many circumstances. I also generally find FPrime's MC results cleaner substantially faster than LW's. Overall, I still find FPrime very useful, and worth dropping back to 9.6 on Mac in order to access.

Indeed..and Ivé been mentioning for quite some time now..that it would be a nice improvement to make an additional VPR module pane, you can still choose to work in viewports if you would want to, but that limits you to only preview viewports and not getting a preview according to your camera resolution.

Make an option for VPR to work as viper..but with custom resolutions, and we will have a good workflow for the VPR.
I sometimes curse when I try to scale the VPR viewports and when I accidently moves something or create keyframes when I don´t want to, viper also has a faster way of simply make preview and play preview at once.

apart from that..features from Fprime should be noted and if possible bake it in to VPR.
Like paus and resume iteration for a starter.

Michael

stiff paper
06-05-2013, 02:42 PM
Fprime is more than a previewer. It can render beautifully, easily, fast deforming animated objects. If you're not a heavy node surface user then fprime is still very useful.
Yes, this, absolutely.

If Mr Worley could only see his way to producing a version of fPrime that antialiased properly in linear colorspace then I would still be using it for pretty much everything. LCS is the only reason I use the LW renderer.

geo_n
06-05-2013, 10:39 PM
Octane is the modern equivalent. With modern day technologies at work under the hood, it offers the ipr and f9 renderings of the gorgeous kind.
Since VPR can be used as a renderer, recognizing most all lw stuff, fprime lost its usefulness.

Is octane already cs aware? I thought that when using octane the cs in lw should be set to linear. That means its not linearizing or degamma'ing the scene. I also saw some posts about linear workflow issues with octane, sorry haven't used octane much lately. In any case it still renders beautifully.

UnCommonGrafx
06-06-2013, 08:58 AM
I am unable to explain all that stuff. I can point you to a link that talks about Octane being linear space based:
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33121&hilit=linear

papou
06-06-2013, 06:00 PM
VPR do not use correct recursion limit. Fprime do.
Fprime permit mouse zoom and translate into image preview. Vpr Can't.
Vpr can show other view than camera. Fprime can't.
Fprime can't overlay wireframe onto preview. Vpr do.
Fprime is a renderer than can do render refinement. Vpr is not.
Vpr is more compatible with lightwave function. Fprime is less.
Fprime need to be rewrite for Lw11.x

geo_n
06-06-2013, 08:02 PM
I am unable to explain all that stuff. I can point you to a link that talks about Octane being linear space based:
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33121&hilit=linear

Looks like you have to manually degamma images to 2.2 in octane itself because octane doesn't respect lwf in host app.
Probably the lightwave octane plugin also doesn't read lw cs at all that's why I read that lw should be set to linear not srgb.
Its possible to do the same with fprime which is not cs aware at all to the host lw. Gerardo showed a way to work in linearworkflow with fprime manually even back in lw 9. Just doesn't interpret lw 10-11 cs at all, like octane it seems.

dwburman
06-06-2013, 09:32 PM
One more point as part of better LW support:

AFAIK, FPrime does not render LW Shaders (the shader tab - except for Worley's G2), while VPR does render shaders.

Snosrap
06-06-2013, 09:57 PM
One more point as part of better LW support:

AFAIK, FPrime does not render LW Shaders (the shader tab - except for Worley's G2), while VPR does render shaders. Yep - that's a pretty big one for me as I apply fast fresnel to everything now. :)

simonlion
06-09-2013, 11:22 PM
I agree with jwiede, Fprime's separate window (not taking up a viewport)

Iain
06-11-2013, 01:48 PM
FPrime is probably the only piece of technology I bought into that still works as well as most of the competition almost 10 years later. That's how ahead of its time it was.

I still use it regularly when initially setting up scenes. It's very sad that development was abandoned but when others are apeing your product and they have large teams to work on it and market it, the likelihood is you would just give up.