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Hail
06-01-2013, 01:40 AM
http://www.toolfarm.com/blog/entry/poll_how_do_you_feel_about_adobe_software_moving_i nto_the_cloud1

erikals
06-01-2013, 07:08 AM
...I don't use Adobe Products = 0%

http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Areyos Alektor
06-02-2013, 04:58 PM
For my part I have taken the CC since the beginning and I am very satisfied. The only negative point is that they had say not to integrate Lightroom, so I bought a box for nothing. But I look forward to new versions :)

shrox
06-02-2013, 06:01 PM
For my part I have taken the CC since the beginning and I am very satisfied. The only negative point is that they had say not to integrate Lightroom, so I bought a box for nothing. But I look forward to new versions :)

Is cost a factor in your satisfaction?

Megalodon2.0
06-02-2013, 06:25 PM
For my part I have taken the CC since the beginning and I am very satisfied. The only negative point is that they had say not to integrate Lightroom, so I bought a box for nothing. But I look forward to new versions :)
I hope you enjoy it when the subscription prices begin to rise and the day you can't afford it... being able to open your files may be... problematic.

erikals
06-02-2013, 06:31 PM
already started to look into PhotoLine and HitFilm...
after some research, the best replacements for PhotoShop and AfterEffects...

tired of tiny Adobe updates...

Areyos Alektor
06-02-2013, 07:12 PM
Is cost a factor in your satisfaction?

Not since they have met at the request of users ;) I just bitching all alone in my corner :D

Areyos Alektor
06-02-2013, 07:30 PM
I hope you enjoy it when the subscription prices begin to rise and the day you can't afford it... being able to open your files may be... problematic.

You'd be a little embittered ? :)

The price is blocked for at least 1 year it leaves time to see coming, and the reaction of users to follow.

Finally good I think that when one makes a choice we think about 2 times, and assumed to be :D

erikals
06-02-2013, 07:41 PM
Not since they have met at the request of users ;)

certainly not mine.

Areyos Alektor
06-02-2013, 08:04 PM
I said that I was talking about the integration of Lightroom in CC offer.

After each sees midday at his door. I just said that I'm on CC and I'm satisfied. I find particularly convenient to be able to use it on 2 computers at the same time.

erikals
06-02-2013, 08:09 PM
sorry, lost in translation. http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

BeeVee
06-03-2013, 01:59 AM
I hope you enjoy it when the subscription prices begin to rise and the day you can't afford it... being able to open your files may be... problematic.

Adobe has already said that the current price is only 40% of the "real" price. I wonder if people will still think it's a good deal when it more than doubles next year?

B

MSherak
06-03-2013, 04:17 AM
already started to look into PhotoLine and HitFilm...
after some research, the best replacements for PhotoShop and AfterEffects...

tired of tiny Adobe updates...

Amen to that. Heck Photoslop can't even utilize all its tools on 32bit images let alone open an .exr correctly.

Hail
06-03-2013, 05:55 AM
The thought of losing access to my files when I stop paying scares me to death:(
I'm never going to buy into this!

meshpig
06-03-2013, 06:45 AM
I encountered that recently whilst reinstallinfg CS5 MC and it took me an hour to wade through all the cloud stuff to find the simple update for the extensions manager. I just can't imagine it's going to be any better... they've bitten off more than they can chew and though cost-wise going cloud is probably not really so different, they've still bitten off more than they can chew.

erikals
06-03-2013, 08:48 AM
already started to look into PhotoLine and HitFilm...
after some research, the best replacements for PhotoShop and AfterEffects...

tired of tiny Adobe updates...


Amen to that. Heck Photoslop can't even utilize all its tools on 32bit images let alone open an .exr correctly.

you'll also find that PhotoLine does several things better. +it's climbing towards PhotoShop at a price of $80

it's almost ridicules... www.pl32.com
(they don't care for fancy logos or a fancy webpage though, which could certainly need an overhaul)

Rayek
06-03-2013, 09:14 AM
you'll also find that PhotoLine does several things better. +it's climbing towards PhotoShop at a price of $80

it's almost ridicules... www.pl32.com
(they don't care for fancy logos or a fancy webpage though, which could certainly need an overhaul)

I agree - I've been doing all my image editing work in Photoline for quite some time now, and love it. It does have some quirks (what software does not), but on overall I prefer it over Photoshop now.

Are you using the latest beta?

erikals
06-03-2013, 11:57 AM
wonder, is the PhotoLine Beta open to users? haven't bought it just yet...

took it for test-runs... pretty good >


http://youtu.be/6BfuwYmBfbU

Rayek
06-03-2013, 12:08 PM
No, only accessible when you have a license. Btw, that looks very nice (haven't watched the video yet, it's still processing).

You are aware symmetry painting is also supported with a trick? Just create a draw layer, copy it as a virtual layer, rotate/flip that virtual layer, and start painting on the original draw layer. Instant symmetry painting.

I believe the latest official version does not update the virtual layer while you draw, but I asked the devs to change that in one of the newer betas. It works very well: duplicate, rotate and scale those virtual layers, and they update automatically. Even better: you can virtualize whole groups of layers as well. Sky's the limit.

erikals
06-03-2013, 12:14 PM
not my art ;] just used it for this test... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

ah, great! so i get the Beta with the license... good stuff! :king:

there... youtube finally uploaded it... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

Rayek
06-03-2013, 12:20 PM
the beta now has a rotate canvas option. Not as smooth as PH, but it works well.

Hey, never noticed the filter brush before! (after months of use ;-)

DrStrik9
06-03-2013, 12:21 PM
Adobe has already said that the current price is only 40% of the "real" price. I wonder if people will still think it's a good deal when it more than doubles next year?

B

Hey Ben, can you provide a link to substantiate this? Thanks.

erikals
06-03-2013, 12:39 PM
the beta now has a rotate canvas option. Not as smooth as PH, but it works well.

Hey, never noticed the filter brush before! (after months of use ;-)

i'm starting to like it... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

BeeVee
06-03-2013, 12:41 PM
I'm sorry I muddled up the student pricing, which is 60% off with the normal pricing, which is 40% off for the first year. Just look at the bottom of this page (US version, Europe is the same percentages): http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html

B

hrgiger
06-03-2013, 01:21 PM
I enjoy the cloud.

Megalodon2.0
06-03-2013, 03:16 PM
I enjoy the cloud.

Hope you enjoy it when it gets too expensive.

And I can't wait to see how Adobe works out being able to access and edit your files once you've ended your subscription.

erikals
06-03-2013, 03:28 PM
i can't wait for the Adobe CC to be hacked...

[Sony... cough!]

Megalodon2.0
06-03-2013, 03:42 PM
i can't wait for the Adobe CC to be hacked...

[Sony... cough!]

Hah, you know it will be. I can see people signing up for only one month and then use the cracked version thereafter.

Yup, Adobe really is shooting themselves in the foot. Or would that be head?

erikals
06-03-2013, 03:54 PM
Creative Poop...

Areyos Alektor
06-03-2013, 04:45 PM
We will speak in 1 year (as there will be no box), when it will have exceeded two years. But I'm sure I will be at least as satisfied. Remember that we don't speak of Photoshop but all the Suite : After Effects, Acrobat, Illustrator, Indesign, etc... not to mention the use of the Cloud makes well services on some work and additional tools like Muse.

hrgiger
06-03-2013, 07:26 PM
Hope you enjoy it when it gets too expensive.

And I can't wait to see how Adobe works out being able to access and edit your files once you've ended your subscription.No sense worrying about something that hasn't happened yet.

erikals
06-03-2013, 07:53 PM
...said the man and jumped out of the plane without a parachute... :P

shrox
06-03-2013, 07:54 PM
I suspect that people that work for companies that pay the bill will be just as happy as if they had packaged ware. Seems it's the people that have to pay out of pocket themselves that aren't convinced.

Megalodon2.0
06-03-2013, 08:16 PM
We will speak in 1 year (as there will be no box), when it will have exceeded two years. But I'm sure I will be at least as satisfied. Remember that we don't speak of Photoshop but all the Suite : After Effects, Acrobat, Illustrator, Indesign, etc... not to mention the use of the Cloud makes well services on some work and additional tools like Muse.
And that makes it all the more difficult.

Having all of those additional file formats that do NOT have programs outside of Adobe that can open them makes you even MORE dependent upon Adobe.



No sense worrying about something that hasn't happened yet.

Forewarned is forearmed.

I cannot imagine ANY scenario where Adobe does not continue to increase the price - especially if many of the early CC adopters choose to end their subscriptions and opt out because NOW they are being "forced" to subscribe instead of CHOOSING to.

It's so very interesting that every single forum and blog I have seen that is discussing this dilemma shows that the VAST majority of people are against this.

And remember... to those who are FOR this - if Adobe does succeed, you are enabling them and others to follow the same route. More and more software will become subscription. Do you really want that? Do you really want to be part of "the problem"?

erikals
06-03-2013, 08:46 PM
thank goodness for open source, it'll make a balance, and listen to the users.
it'll also make other alternative companies think twice about the cloud type Adobe is pushing for...

i'm not against every tiny bit of the cloud, just the type of cloud Adobe has decided to go for,
a monopoly, handcuffed type...

and yes, CC is gonna raise by 40%... (just google it)

Megalodon2.0
06-03-2013, 08:58 PM
and yes, CC is gonna raise by 40%... (just google it)

And that's just initially.

Adobe originally thought that $150 a month was fair.

Just wait till it get's up to HALF that high. :boogiedow

TheDynamo
06-03-2013, 09:48 PM
Blender is the only open source application that I've had some faith in, most seem to be difficult to depend on at any professional level. However that being said, it would be nice to see the potential resurgence in linux if competition to adobe takes off.

Until then I will merely build the software costs into the bids of projects as a freelancer. I know Adobe has no access to my source media on my system drives and honestly I can count how many times I've felt nostalgic enough to look at an old After Effects project on one hand to need to access it later. If a client requires it, once again it's a cost that can be passed down to them.

Honestly one of these threads is enough unless someone finds another noteworthy piece of software that can compete. Otherwise it's more beating of the very very very dead horse.

-Rob

wrightyp100
06-04-2013, 02:03 AM
A good read.

http://allbetsareoff.com/2013/06/an-update-on-creative-cloud/

I use CC at work. I dont have to pay and I have access to programs that get the job done.

At home I pay for premiere as I use it A LOT! After effects is a belting program. As an individual I reckon I could afford the whole CC. Its less than my car insurance a month. I don't care about my car. I'd rather pay for CC. But hey.

I know Adobe are big evil corporation, but from reading Aharon's article my eyes are a little more open.

Sometimes the vitriol and hyperbole on this forum is... Disturbing.

Hail
06-04-2013, 02:28 AM
Hi Wrighttyp100, imagine a situation where this cc thing succeeded and many other sw vendors follow suite and you have to pay 50bugs for your OS, 50 for CC, 50 for lw 50,50,50... for everything else for the rest of your life otherwise you are locked out of your computer, would you still be able to afford it?
So the cost is not the issue but the principle
Adobe has set the precidence and if it succeeds, we are all doomed for life

Megalodon2.0
06-04-2013, 02:39 AM
A good read.

http://allbetsareoff.com/2013/06/an-update-on-creative-cloud/

I use CC at work. I dont have to pay and I have access to programs that get the job done.

At home I pay for premiere as I use it A LOT! After effects is a belting program. As an individual I reckon I could afford the whole CC. Its less than my car insurance a month. I don't care about my car. I'd rather pay for CC. But hey.

I know Adobe are big evil corporation, but from reading Aharon's article my eyes are a little more open.

Sometimes the vitriol and hyperbole on this forum is... Disturbing.

Really now?

First of all, Aharon sells After Effects training., He has a vested interest in Adobe succeeding.

Second, connecting to the web is not a HUGE concern. Looking at all of the various forums and blogs the most important item is the perpetual license and then the inability - for example once retired - to have the app to work on when you do NOT have the money. This is where the "being held hostage by Adobe" comes in to play.

Third, as you can see in the responses to his blog, most are still not happy with subscription.

Adobe will more than likely not change their minds - at least in the short term - until they realize that their bottom line is suffering.

Wrightyp100... it's not first and foremost about the cost. At this point the cost is not overly high. But it WILL go up. And you don't seem to understand or choose not to, that if you fall on difficult times - like another recession - and are unable to continue your subscription, you are SOL. With perpetual licenses... once you've got it you don't have to worry about it. And if cost was no problem for you at home, the purchasing the old boxed perpetual version probably wasn't too difficult either. This is PRECISELY what happened to me and my business. When the Great Recession hit, we would not have been able to afford subscription costs, but then we had the perpetual license and could make the changes to our clients files - what few clients we had left - without having to worry about being able to afford subscriptions.

Vitriol and hyperbole? No, just the facts. How would you like to have all of your software on subscription? Adobe succeeds, others will follow. Adobe fails, others will think twice.

erikals
06-04-2013, 02:57 AM
Honestly one of these threads is enough unless someone finds another noteworthy piece of software that can compete. Otherwise it's more beating of the very very very dead horse.

...honestly, i wouldn't mind going through 20 more of these pages if it can make me find a cheaper alternative to one of the Adobe applications, or an app with better features. i just found PhotoLine, that alone could save some of you guys $780 a year, or about $8000 over 10 years, if you only use PhotoShop that is... (i've used the $70 a/month price here, which starts 29 Juli, so hurry up if you want the $49.99 a/month deal)

this is of course unless Adobe raise the price further...

no Sir, if there are any discussions that are worth it, it is this one...

PhotoLine, just a short intro >


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BfuwYmBfbU

PhotoShop $780 - developed for 24 years by an average of about 20 programers
PhotoLine $78 - developed for 6 years by an average of about 1.5 programers

PhotoLine, adjust the brush size by holding down Ctrl+mousedrag
PhotoShop, after 24 years still can't kick it...


Sometimes the vitriol and hyperbole on this forum is... Disturbing.
hardly, please be more specific rather than to through out comments.

erikals
06-04-2013, 03:50 AM
having said that, this is also how many of us feel...


http://vimeo.com/66594939

wrightyp100
06-04-2013, 04:13 AM
Hey Meglodon, (I always start my responses with hello first, even if someone calls me vitriolic :) we all feel the pinch right? I'm skint in terms of disposable income. I like it as a good read because from following him on twitter and occasionally making contact online he's a pretty straight guy. I've seen him attack adobe quite vocally. But, if you know better than me that's cool.

In the article it says that they are looking into the whole, once you've stopped paying/ file opening thing.

But lets face it. Some wizard will sort a crack and boom. There we go. Not tidy, but functional. You'd also be socking it to the man. How great will that feel?

"And if cost was no problem for you at home, the purchasing the old boxed perpetual version probably wasn't too difficult either."

It was impossible. I can afford a monthly subscription. I only pay for premiere. £17 quid. It probably will go up. But so do my other bills. Its a fact of life.

I could use lightworks for editing. £40 A year for full pro licence. Free if i don't mind losing a few codecs. I just love the adobe workflow. It suits my needs.

"I'm hungry. Lets get a Taco" - Mr White

wrightyp100
06-04-2013, 05:09 AM
That is a good video though. See I am open minded ;)

hrgiger
06-04-2013, 05:20 AM
It's so very interesting that every single forum and blog I have seen that is discussing this dilemma shows that the VAST majority of people are against this.

And remember... to those who are FOR this - if Adobe does succeed, you are enabling them and others to follow the same route. More and more software will become subscription. Do you really want that? Do you really want to be part of "the problem"?

Many years ago a vast number of people were all for slavery. It doesn't make it any more right. All Iknow is that right now this model works very well for me. Maybe its time more people embrace the cloud.

erikals
06-04-2013, 06:27 AM
Many years ago a vast number of people were all for slavery. It doesn't make it any more right.

to some, what's ironic here is that belonging to CC is just like being somewhat enslaved to Adobe.

again, this video shows what i mean.


http://vimeo.com/66594939

you are giving away some of those rights, for free. i question that.

raymondtrace
06-04-2013, 07:14 AM
I worry about the bizarre perception of a financial distinction between freelancer or corporate employee. There is no difference. Everybody pays.


...I use CC at work. I dont have to pay and I have access to programs that get the job done.

Many in my company still use CS3 or earlier at work. Nobody has to pay further to have access to programs that get the job done.

erikals
06-04-2013, 08:16 AM
found i was very wrong about a price,

PhotoShop from 31st of July will be $28 /month, not $78. so that is closer to $300 a year.

quite alright, but still not my kind of Coffee... :caffeine:
if you choose a Month-to-month plan (like i need) the price will jump to $42...


i might use After Effects CC for certain functions, like "Refine Edge"
but CC and mini-upgrades from Adobe is leaving a sour taste.

over to HitFilm... > www.hitfilm.com

TheDynamo
06-04-2013, 11:05 AM
I'm sorry Erikals. That video has the worst analogy I have seen regarding what the Creative Cloud (tm patent pending etc. etc.) is. You still own your project files. You still own your final renders. If you want to update a painting you're going to need to buy more paint, right? That's basically what it is.

Please note though I'm not necessarily a fan of their paying structure, it could use some significant revision ($19 per app is pricey, I think $10-$15 per app is much more reasonable depending on the application).

-Rob

raymondtrace
06-04-2013, 11:49 AM
...If you want to update a painting you're going to need to buy more paint, right?

I'm not picking on your comment in particular but I have yet to see a truly relevant analogy to what is being done in CC. Yes, we need to buy more paint but we would have a much better choice of paint and suppliers than a choice in software tools. There's only one source of "paint" that can be applied to a .aep or .prproj or .indd painting.

And the paint we buy can sit on the shelf for years before we need to use it again. Our paint does not expire in a month.

But, yeah... that video isn't quite informative.

shrox
06-04-2013, 12:03 PM
... If you want to update a painting you're going to need to buy more paint, right? That's basically what it is. -Rob

That is a bad analogy, I never had to buy "more paint" with Photoshop, that is the whole point of digital art to me! I can produce a dazzling image in TGA, jpg or whatever major format and deliver it to a client with PS V2.5 if I had too! Which is a free download now too...

TheDynamo
06-04-2013, 12:26 PM
That is a bad analogy, I never had to buy "more paint" with Photoshop, that is the whole point of digital art to me! I can produce a dazzling image in TGA, jpg or whatever major format and deliver it to a client with PS V2.5 if I had too! Which is a free download now too...

Shrox, you're mixing metaphors. What that video insinuates is that you can't see your art when you are done which I call bullcrap on for that very same reason you mention... you export your work. The problem I have with a lot of this is that I can't count on one hand any time I had to dig through an old After Effects project just because I felt nostalgic regarding some old keyframes and effects settings. If I did it was because a client wanted me to revise things, that's a billable item. When I do feel nostalgic I just look at the old final renders, maybe even some pre-renders.

When I go to the local meet and greet with Todd Kopriva and Adobe staff this weekend I'm sure I will echo many people there when I say that I don't appreciate buying the whole stupid master suite when I just use the video production portion of it. That is the part I most object to. Heck I would love a more affordable al la carte method since really I only use 3 applications on a regular basis.

I agree with Raymondtrace, an analogy is really tough to come up with, I just went with paint since the video was using that as an analogy... horrible that it was.

-Rob

erikals
06-04-2013, 01:39 PM
ok, fly on a cloud then...

i strongly disagree and have a completely different opinion.

btw, what do you think is so great about the CC, that a CS version couldn't be made to do?...

shrox
06-04-2013, 01:43 PM
Shrox, you're mixing metaphors. What that video insinuates is that you can't see your art when you are done which I call bullcrap on for that very same reason you mention... you export your work. The problem I have with a lot of this is that I can't count on one hand any time I had to dig through an old After Effects project just because I felt nostalgic regarding some old keyframes and effects settings. If I did it was because a client wanted me to revise things, that's a billable item. When I do feel nostalgic I just look at the old final renders, maybe even some pre-renders.

When I go to the local meet and greet with Todd Kopriva and Adobe staff this weekend I'm sure I will echo many people there when I say that I don't appreciate buying the whole stupid master suite when I just use the video production portion of it. That is the part I most object to. Heck I would love a more affordable al la carte method since really I only use 3 applications on a regular basis.

I agree with Raymondtrace, an analogy is really tough to come up with, I just went with paint since the video was using that as an analogy... horrible that it was.

-Rob

OK. Next time use a Star Trek analogy.

Megalodon2.0
06-04-2013, 02:13 PM
Many years ago a vast number of people were all for slavery. It doesn't make it any more right. All I know is that right now this model works very well for me. Maybe its time more people embrace the cloud.
Slavery was already IN PLACE and people were against it. This new subscription service is made to REPLACE perpetual licenses AND make you a "slave" to Adobe forever. Your analogy is very flawed. Erikals below is correct. And slavery was detrimental to ALL slaves and usurped ALL of their rights - this subscription plan is apparently detrimental to MANY and holds us hostage to Adobe. Essentially your slavery comment is reversed - we BECOME the slaves.


to some, what's ironic here is that belonging to CC is just like being somewhat enslaved to Adobe.
Precisely!


You still own your project files. You still own your final renders. If you want to update a painting you're going to need to buy more paint, right? That's basically what it is.
Yes, you own your own project files and if you saved in a format that you can open in other programs, that's fine. But remember, we're not talking JUST about Photoshop here. There is InDesign, After Effects, Illustrator and other programs here. Before this uproar from users, Adobe had ZERO intention of even thinking about another option for users to open and edit their files. And even though they are considering possibilities, I sincerely doubt that they will discover a solution that is acceptable to most professionals - being able to open AND edit your files after ending your subscription.

So... even if you OWN your own files and have access to them, how will you be able to open them up? Can you open up your After Effects files in another program? InDesign? What Adobe wants, is that if you NEED to you will NEED to pay Adobe to do it. THAT is how they started there subscription plan.

erikals
06-04-2013, 03:04 PM
Adobe will consider it, possibly add it, support it, people will cheer, then little by little Adobe will let the support wash away in time... craving control.

also read > "how to manipulate a crowd"

these leaders are no better than the ACTA, PIPA, SOPA guys...

VonBon
06-04-2013, 06:05 PM
I’ve said it before; Adobe is a public company which has investors through “Stocks”.
Stock Holders want their stock value to increase every year.
Therefore Adobe has no choice but to increase the cost of a monthly subscription
once the subscriber base plateaus. (if they wait that long)

Its simple mathematics :twak:

VonBon
06-04-2013, 06:08 PM
O yea forgot to tell yall.

Its a TRAP!!!

Megalodon2.0
06-04-2013, 06:24 PM
O yea forgot to tell yall.

Its a TRAP!!!

Yeah.

Funny thing is... the VAST majority - on every forum and blog (and Facebook) know this. It's a shady move trying to make it appear that it's GOOD FOR YOU. I am simply amazed at how many - even though they are few - that are falling for this.

Oh well... Hopefully they and us will reap the rewards of many of us who are fighting back. It's going to take a few months to a year since Adobe will probably sit back and see how many hold out and don't use the cloud. Then when they see their bottom line falling like the proverbial lead balloon... they'll decide to make changes.

erikals
06-04-2013, 06:39 PM
when they see their bottom line falling like the proverbial lead balloon... they'll decide to make changes.
doubt it will happen, but that doesn't mean i need to put fuel on the fire...

shrox
06-04-2013, 06:51 PM
114729

Megalodon2.0
06-04-2013, 07:23 PM
doubt it will happen, but that doesn't mean i need to put fuel on the fire...

I don't know... but considering the amount of pure animosity on so many forums, blogs - and as I said, even Facebook - I think that MANY professionals are going to simply wait it out with what they've got. If fewer and fewer join "the cloud" and many - after seeing what would happen to their work AFTER they unsubscribe - choose to unsubscribe, then their bottom line WILL suffer. Remember, their so-called 500,000 who joined the cloud "and are happy" joined at an introductory price AND before the boxed versions were eliminated. That and the problems many are finding it difficult to stop their subscriptions AND there is a charge for stopping early... Adobe will have an ongoing serious PR problem. And Newtek thought the CORE problem was bad? This is MANY times worse for Adobe.

TheDynamo
06-04-2013, 08:37 PM
OK. Next time use a Star Trek analogy.

Hmm. Adobe as borg and us as a pre-warp civilization. Or is that a little too stark? ;)

Please don't get me wrong here, there are definitely things I don't like about the cloud (I've mentioned it before but really I don't need everything, smaller packages would be nicer). I use After Effects the most out of all my Adobe applications so I'm well aware of the corner they've painted me into. One thing to think about is not just the anchor application like After Effects but plug-ins. I have a couple of thousand dollars sunk into plug-ins that I use regularly as well that become useless if I stop paying for the cloud. I think out of everyone who uses the Adobe software, this hits the hobby folk the hardest. If it becomes a problem I can easily just inform my clients of a change in billing protocol in case they want revisions.

I'll agree to disagree Erikals, there was no hostility intended in my post but the way you were presenting your information it sounded like you thought Adobe controlled your final renders (at least that was the point "made" in the video).

-Rob

shrox
06-04-2013, 09:36 PM
Hmm. Adobe as borg and us as a pre-warp civilization. Or is that a little too stark? ;)...

Well geez, I guess the only way out is sending out Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith to upload a virus into the evil Adobe mothership.

m.d.
06-04-2013, 11:53 PM
Yeah.

Funny thing is... the VAST majority - on every forum and blog (and Facebook) know this. It's a shady move trying to make it appear that it's GOOD FOR YOU. I am simply amazed at how many - even though they are few - that are falling for this.

Oh well... Hopefully they and us will reap the rewards of many of us who are fighting back. It's going to take a few months to a year since Adobe will probably sit back and see how many hold out and don't use the cloud. Then when they see their bottom line falling like the proverbial lead balloon... they'll decide to make changes.

I totally disagree with the adobe move....
But financially, I think it will be big long term for adobe shareholders.....
They have already prepared their shareholders for short term possible loss, they are after the new crowd just coming out of school....the ones paying $75 a month phone bills, and are willing to sacrifice a few loyal customers to get them.

a quote from adobe shareholder docs

• if new or current customers desire only perpetual licenses, our subscription sales may lag behind expectations;
• if new or current customers desire to purchase or renew only point product subscriptions rather than acquire the entire Creative
Cloud offering, our subscription sales may lag behind our expectations;
• the increased emphasis on a cloud strategy may raise concerns among our installed perpetual license customer base;
• we may be unsuccessful in maintaining our target pricing, new seat adoption and projected renewal rates, or we may select a target
price that is not optimal and could negatively affect our sales or earnings;
• our revenues are expected to decline over the short term and may decline over the long term as a result of this strategy;
• our shift to a subscription licensing model may result in confusion among our customers, partners, resellers and investors;
• our relationships with existing partners that resell perpetual license products may be damaged; and
• we may incur costs at a higher than forecasted rate as we expand our cloud operations.

They are a smart company....they anticipated this response well before they made the decision to go this way....and they ran the numbers.
Their main goal was to get 40% recurring revenue...which they should reach next year.

I hope the pressure from users makes some changes and causes adobe to compromise....but I dont think were stopping this train

Megalodon2.0
06-05-2013, 12:00 AM
They are a smart company....they anticipated this response well before they made the decision to go this way....and they ran the numbers.
Their main goal was to get 40% recurring revenue...which they should reach next year.

I hope the pressure from users makes some changes and causes adobe to compromise....but I dont think were stopping this train

I think you are giving Adobe too much credit.

It wasn't until this HUGE backlash that they announced that they would "look into customers being able to open files once they stopped subscription." I think that if they had REALLY anticipated such a response, they would already have had something ready to go.

IMO they had no idea how HUGE this would be due to the "incredible response for their initial subscription offer" - WHICH was before they stopped perpetual licenses. You go to ANY forum and this is all you hear - in fact I've heard more "pro-subscription" in this thread than I've seen on many blogs and forums. I guess time will tell. Most people assume that Adobe is going to "play the waiting game" and see how long users will be able to hold out. I think that if most of the Pro users already have a Creative Suite that they can hold out for a LONG time. I certainly know I can - and I've only got CS4. We'll see how long Adobe can hold out before they realize that that bottom line isn't going up anywhere near as fast as they had expected.

It's going to be an interesting year ahead.

BeeVee
06-05-2013, 01:50 AM
PhotoLine, adjust the brush size by holding down Ctrl+mousedrag
PhotoShop, after 24 years still can't kick it...


Just a quick note here before reading the rest of the thread where it may have already been pointed out, but Alt and RMB drag in PS CS5 not only changes the size but also the hardness of the brush.

B

erikals
06-05-2013, 07:20 AM
Just a quick note here before reading the rest of the thread where it may have already been pointed out, but Alt and RMB drag in PS CS5 not only changes the size but also the hardness of the brush.

hehe, it took them 20 years, yes, literally(!) to add that function. go PhotoShop! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif 8/

raymondtrace
06-05-2013, 08:40 AM
I think you are giving Adobe too much credit.

It wasn't until this HUGE backlash that they announced that they would "look into customers being able to open files once they stopped subscription." I think that if they had REALLY anticipated such a response, they would already have had something ready to go.

I think you are giving Adobe too little credit for an obligatory public relations move. :)

Of course Adobe is going to say they will "look into" it. There's no penalty to Adobe for saying that. They've been saying that for years for every other complaint or bug report that remains unresolved to this day. It makes them look like they care without needing to promise any resolution.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78yigV0GYGQ&t=2m48s

Note Shantanu Narayen saying (~2:40) that they are "always looking at pricing around the world" when responding to complaints about Adobe's never-ending international pricing disparity.

Keep looking, Adobe.

erikals
06-05-2013, 08:59 AM
He is the CEO of Adobe...!?

Gosh!

shrox
06-05-2013, 09:10 AM
He is the CEO of Adobe...!?

Gosh!

I'll be he doesn't use any Adobe graphic products!

- - - Updated - - -

Unhappy with Adobe subscriptions? QuarkXPress offers upgrade deal

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57587722-92/unhappy-with-adobe-subscriptions-quarkxpress-offers-upgrade-deal/

erikals
06-05-2013, 09:20 AM
Quark?
don't mention that name please.

used it years back, compared to InDesign it was like driving in reverse.
it worked, but that's about all good things i could say about it. (the list was loong)

Quark only survived because 50 year old guys didn't want to learn another application. (a sad truth)

Quark is yet another company that did the exact same thing Adobe is doing.
no way... use InDesign or Scribus instead.

shrox
06-05-2013, 09:51 AM
Quark?
don't mention that name please.

used it years back, compared to InDesign it was like driving in reverse.
it worked, but that's about all good things i could say about it. (the list was loong)

Quark only survived because 50 year old guys didn't want to learn another application. (a sad truth)

Quark is yet another company that did the exact same thing Adobe is doing.
no way... use InDesign or Scribus instead.

It's an opition. I haven't used Quark in decades.

raymondtrace
06-05-2013, 10:47 AM
...Unhappy with Adobe subscriptions? QuarkXPress offers upgrade deal

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57587722-92/unhappy-with-adobe-subscriptions-quarkxpress-offers-upgrade-deal/

Quark is a little shifty with its upgrades as well. They typically limit upgrade options from only one or two versions back. So if you wanted to upgrade a QuarkXPress 4 license, you would have been out of luck for the past several years. But in desperation to stay relevant, Quark frequently opens that window wider to encourage more upgrade sales. The CNET article says the current window will close on June 30 but you can bet it will open again later.

A $370 upgrade to QuarkXPress 10 is still more expensive than the InDesign CS5.5 license I already have and can use forever.

I do not expect InDesign CC or future versions of QXP will be particularly useful. The main innovations in InDesign/QuarkXPress are for tablets (ePub & apps). It is more likely that an entirely new tool will be developed for interactive media than the epub/app bandages being applied to these print layout apps. I'm not worried about obsolescence of my perpetual InDesign 5.5 license.

shrox
06-05-2013, 10:52 AM
I've got CS4 Photoshop and Premiere and old Illustrator. I can put out TGAs and 1080 vids. Good enough.

VonBon
06-05-2013, 11:09 AM
Adobe want even let me use my old CS. Cant activate it now.
Before (although it would stop working) i could at least activate it.

So i try the phone activation and that want work. they tel me to got to
www.adobe/go/activation.com, but this page is no longer available.

So i guess it doesn't matter if you do have a perpetual license for a product.
Adobe will do what it wants when it wants.

"I will not ever buy another Adobe Product" :tsktsk:

bazsa73
06-05-2013, 11:42 AM
Adobe want even let me use my old CS. Cant activate it now.
Before (although it would stop working) i could at least activate it.

So i try the phone activation and that want work. they tel me to got to
www.adobe/go/activation.com, but this page is no longer available.

So i guess it doesn't matter if you do have a perpetual license for a product.
Adobe will do what it wants when it wants.

"I will not ever buy another Adobe Product" :tsktsk:

why dont you download a crack? If you have the full version you just patch it and you are fine. You paid for it anyways.

shrox
06-05-2013, 11:44 AM
why dont you download a crack? If you have the full version you just patch it and you are fine. You paid for it anyways.

I cannot presently agree with cracks, but times are a changing...

Rayek
06-05-2013, 12:57 PM
In that case you could download CS2 as a replacement.
http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/

Or make the switch to Photoline, which is much more capable as well.


Adobe want even let me use my old CS. Cant activate it now.
Before (although it would stop working) i could at least activate it.

So i try the phone activation and that want work. they tel me to got to
www.adobe/go/activation.com, but this page is no longer available.

So i guess it doesn't matter if you do have a perpetual license for a product.
Adobe will do what it wants when it wants.

"I will not ever buy another Adobe Product" :tsktsk:

raymondtrace
06-05-2013, 01:00 PM
So i try the phone activation and that want work. they tel me to got to
www.adobe/go/activation.com, but this page is no longer available. :

The correct URL is http://www.adobe.com/go/activation

But yeah, just grab CS2 from Adobe for free and be done with them.

http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/

Rayek
06-05-2013, 01:01 PM
Btw, do my eyes deceive me? After Effects CS2 is now part of the downloads. That's pretty awesome. Don't care much about the other stuff, but AE CS2 is still very capable.

raymondtrace
06-05-2013, 01:03 PM
Btw, do my eyes deceive me? After Effects CS2 is now part of the downloads. That's pretty awesome. Don't care much about the other stuff, but AE CS2 is still very capable.

That page has evolved over time. AE was added after a bit of time. There was more software there (such as lighter versions of Photoshop, whatever they were branded at the time... express, LE). So grab what you can when you can.

shrox
06-05-2013, 01:08 PM
That page has evolved over time. AE was added after a bit of time. There was more software there (such as lighter versions of Photoshop, whatever they were branded at the time... express, LE). So grab what you can when you can.

Maybe Adobe will slowly release "antiquated" software like CS3-6 as downloads over the next couple of years.

raymondtrace
06-05-2013, 01:59 PM
Freely releasing CS3-6 is unlikely. The free release of CS2 was a blunder.

Adobe should have limited the free CS2 to their known, registered CS2 customers but their registration/activation database was so bonked that they could no longer discern who was a CS2 customer. That is why they are leaving it open for anyone to download. I very much doubt this will be repeated for more recent CS releases.

Megalodon2.0
06-05-2013, 02:08 PM
I think you are giving Adobe too little credit for an obligatory public relations move. :)

Of course Adobe is going to say they will "look into" it. There's no penalty to Adobe for saying that. They've been saying that for years for every other complaint or bug report that remains unresolved to this day. It makes them look like they care without needing to promise any resolution.

Yes, but if they choose to do nothing... can you imagine how HUGE that next backlash will be? If you don't think it will be just as big as this was, I think you're quite mistaken.

To say you'll "look into it" and then do nothing? The sharks will feed on that - and that feed is Adobe. It WILL be a frenzy.

Yeah, I've seen that video. It shows the arrogance they have. It also shows that they think that nothing can touch them.

We'll see. Either way, we'll win since other software will step up to the plate and ultimately match Adobe. I think Hitfilm is already a great After Effects replacement - not there yet, but well on it's way. THAT is the kind of company I want to subsidize with my cash.

raymondtrace
06-05-2013, 03:46 PM
We do know how huge (or how small) that backlash will be. We've already seen it with other public outcries. FreeFreeHand.org's efforts were futile and nothing really happened to Adobe's disparity in international pricing. Adobe's "look into it" response just buys time for consumer apathy and forgetfulness. Time cools passions. Just look at what little the USA now wants to do about gun control since we move farther from the "(I can't even remember the name of the town/school) shooting".

Megalodon2.0
06-05-2013, 08:33 PM
We do know how huge (or how small) that backlash will be. We've already seen it with other public outcries. FreeFreeHand.org's efforts were futile and nothing really happened to Adobe's disparity in international pricing. Adobe's "look into it" response just buys time for consumer apathy and forgetfulness. Time cools passions. Just look at what little the USA now wants to do about gun control since we move farther from the "(I can't even remember the name of the town/school) shooting".

Well... we'll see.