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View Full Version : Hypervoxel Possibility and Hope



JMCarrigan
05-29-2013, 06:10 PM
I've been trying to figure out how to make landscapes with arches and caves. I thought of hypervoxels today and made an arch with an array of 1 point polys. HERE'S THE HOPE.

Is there a way to turn hypervoxel output to actual mesh? Please Please Please.

erikals
05-29-2013, 06:52 PM
not sure, but alternatively maybe you could create the cave using metaballs and freeze them...

JMCarrigan
05-29-2013, 07:27 PM
not sure, but alternatively maybe you could create the cave using metaballs and freeze them...

D'oh! Thanks.

erikals
05-29-2013, 07:53 PM
beware though, it can be slow, and not very interactive http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus
05-30-2013, 03:27 AM
Nope...there´s no way of turning hypervoxels to meshes.

metaball is what you could use, but you could simply model stuff anyway in such case, metaball is interesting as modelling too, but could have been
developed further..to let´s say z-brush stuff:)

since voxels are volumetric shaders, the only thing close to it for shape´s would be Volumedic, you could try volumedic lite out, there´s
mesh to volumetric tool in there I think..so you could model your shape then convert to volumetric.

Would be nice if we could have some sort of mesh to volumetric converter tool build in Lightwave, so you could sculpt in 3d coat and then bring it in
to lightwave for very good close up renders with lot of details.

Michael

prometheus
05-30-2013, 03:33 AM
Ps..
for arch´s and using hypervoxels, you should try using splines and have enough of points equally spread along the spline, save the spline and use hypervoxels surface mode on it in layout, enough size and blending would work to give it a seemingly uniform shape.

Also ..in modeler you could shape a rock or other stuff, and then use the fill solid command to fill it with points, and the use hypervoxels on that. It might even work to quantize the points created to give the uniform spacing so they in the end blend smoother, this is sort of faking a mesh to have a volumetric grid resolution inside of itself.

Edit...for using hypertexture on the voxels in surface mode, use world coordinates to have the texture better following the spline/arch.
the pro thing about this over mesh, is that the voxels are unlimited in detail when zooming in.

Michael

JMCarrigan
05-31-2013, 10:47 AM
Thank you both for your help. I really didn't believe that LW hypervoxels could be output as a mesh - But! (Hmm - I wonder: is it "I'll believe it when I see it" or "I'll see it when I believe it?")

Anyway you gave me much to consider. ZBrush huh?

bazsa73
05-31-2013, 03:08 PM
The only thing one could do if it would work is to bake hypervoxels into a QT video, but it is not working.
So perhaps Zbrush is the option. With zspheres you can do whatever you want.

prometheus
05-31-2013, 03:45 PM
The only thing one could do if it would work is to bake hypervoxels into a QT video, but it is not working.
So perhaps Zbrush is the option. With zspheres you can do whatever you want.

You can not bake surface mode, only volumetrics to different codec formats, and it will work if you use 32 bit lightwave, quicktime has no support
for 64 bit lightwave, ergo not working there.

baked voxels renders extremly fast in vpr, and you can clone them without adding that extra time when voxels intersect, adn flying through them works fast to, they are limited in resolution and quality though, maybe something could be improved on that.
of course once baked, you can not edit them unless recreating it again.

Havent tried the other baking formats though.

I want baking of volumetric light too...:)

Michael

littlewaves
05-31-2013, 05:47 PM
this idea may be a bit out there and might not work but how about rendering out an image sequence with the camera rotating around the HV model you've made and then feeding that into 123dCatch?

someone with some time on their hands try that out!

bazsa73
06-01-2013, 08:02 AM
You can not bake surface mode, only volumetrics to different codec formats, and it will work if you use 32 bit lightwave, quicktime has no support
for 64 bit lightwave, ergo not working there.

baked voxels renders extremly fast in vpr, and you can clone them without adding that extra time when voxels intersect, adn flying through them works fast to, they are limited in resolution and quality though, maybe something could be improved on that.
of course once baked, you can not edit them unless recreating it again.

Havent tried the other baking formats though.

I want baking of volumetric light too...:)

Michael

Good to know Michael, pity it does not work in 64 bit mode.

JMCarrigan
06-01-2013, 10:42 AM
It occurred to me yesterday, that I could do something with a torus or two. (Said that way because I couldn't figure out how to to spell toruses.)

prometheus
06-01-2013, 12:26 PM
here´s a sample of just adding voxels on the spline´s vertexes.

I wonder what fancy stuff Modo could do for rock´s with the new volume item mode? haven´t seen any of that yet.

Michael

prometheus
06-01-2013, 02:20 PM
The best approach might still be to simply use singel nulls and use clone item after you have made a single voxel rock that looks good, setting the blend mode to additive and
create a blend group for it, Important to use VPR while working, then simply clone item, move, clone item and move and so forth on, you can scale the nulls individually or stretch them to get variations.

I would like to see an option to simply clone a voxel null from within the voxel panel rather than going to the clone item( could use a good shortcut of course)
Also ..there´s no way to edit all those cloned nulls at once,that would be nice to have.

If they could develop volumetric item from poly meshes, that would give better options to simply model main base rock, convert to volumetric and thus having infinite volumetric
detail when adding hypertextures.
Or why not also a tool to import volumetric sculpted voxels from 3d coat.
Then weré talking cool stuff.

P.S..
I would like to see someone showcasing a process where volumedic is used to first model a rock arch, then converting to volume, and then adding surface detail noise.

JMCarrigan
06-02-2013, 12:58 PM
That is very cool stuff! Looks like the possibilities are many at least.

prometheus
06-02-2013, 01:16 PM
That is very cool stuff! Looks like the possibilities are many at least.

yes..there are some possibilities, but I also know what could be:) if they implement volume items, or option to use 3d coat stuff :)
You will end up with a little higher render times using voxels, then again to reach a good level of displacement for details in poly´s... that will also slow things down.


I noticed however when changing the surface to an ocean surface, and then using turbulence fractal for bump, that introduced an error which I think Shrox has been having big issues with, so there is some type of bug going on there.
when having these voxels on ..it will disturb the turbulence procedural, I tested with crumple ..and that was just fine..butgod knows how many other fractal textures are screwed up by this.

I will post images of that in the hypervoxels fixit thread soon...I thought that bug was related to 9.6...but it unfortunatly seems to be clinging on to even 11.03 at least.

Michael

Areyos Alektor
06-02-2013, 06:26 PM
LightWave can generate the volumetric geometry from the Metaballs or FiberFX (via the Polygonize). Externally there are 3D Coat or Organica (old but good).

But isn't it more interesting to use the SubPatch and Displacement ? You can add HyperVoxels if it's really necessary.

prometheus
06-02-2013, 06:44 PM
LightWave can generate the volumetric geometry from the Metaballs or FiberFX (via the Polygonize). Externally there are 3D Coat or Organica (old but good).

But isn't it more interesting to use the SubPatch and Displacement ? You can add HyperVoxels if it's really necessary.

Dont quite get what you mean by generate volumetric geometry from metaballs or fiberfx? and polygonize?, you cant turn any mesh volumetric, fiberFx just use polychains, so not sure what you mean.
And turning metaball volumetric?? don´t think so.

subpatch and displacement, sure..but depends on scene, you can not have infinite detail as you have in volumetrics, and you will still have to set render level to very high amount of subpatch render.

Ogo taiki had an interesting volumetric surface mode for rendering land, with infinite detail.

Areyos Alektor
06-02-2013, 07:54 PM
Sorry I expressed myself badly. I wanted to say that if you want to generate geometry from volumetric elements you should pass by the Metaballs or by FiberFX.

With FiberFX you should use Polygonize if you want to get a mesh.

With the HyperVoxels you cannot generate a mesh, even though I think that they can incorporate the Polygonize.

Yes I agree but there are more controls with the SubPatch. And volumetric can be simulate. In both cases we will use the surfacing. And there you can also use third-party applications such as 3D Coat and Genetica in addition.

Don't be mistaken I love the HyperVoxels. But it's surprising that can be made using jointly the SubPatch/Displacement/Bone/Morphing. That doesn't prevent to use the HyperVoxels and compositing so.

The problem of Ogo Taiki is that no longer updated, and therefore only 32-bit. It doesn't detract from it's qualities but it's worth for noting.

erikals
06-02-2013, 07:57 PM
yep, if for some reason HVs weren't required for the project, i'd go with SubP too, and possibly add 3DCoat sculpting.

prometheus
06-02-2013, 09:55 PM
I think I beg to differ a little, about subpatch..great in many cases, but it just can´t reach the same detail level as volumetric detail on voxels in surface mode, but this is under the notion of what could be, not what we have today unfortunatly..except for a few cases where
hypervoxels for rocks and some terrain stuff might work very well.
micropolydisplacements are probably the next best thing.

Edit..I mostly mean that I think a volumetric mesh solution implemented would be more efficient and with higher end results than using very high level normal maps,displacement maps from zbrush or 3d coat.


still dont follow you areyos..
Maybe I need to sleep on it...
images to showcase what you mean might work too:)

Just fiddling for some minutes..
some samples not really releated to this, anywat,,some voxel planets..much better detail than using bumps, this is pure hypertextures for the details.

Michael

shrox
06-02-2013, 10:06 PM
That normal displacement works well too.

prometheus
06-02-2013, 10:37 PM
That normal displacement works well too.

a little off topic...but while youre in here, I notice that the voxel disturbing bump layer are there still unfortunatly, I noticed it on the turbulence procedural layer on bump.

Check the first image here.maybe zoom in 200% and you will see the bump being distorted with horizontal lines.
must be dependent on certain procedural perhaps..to bad I thought there was no issue before.

Michael

ary3d
06-02-2013, 10:54 PM
Nice test prometheus!

shrox
06-02-2013, 11:43 PM
a little off topic...but while youre in here, I notice that the voxel disturbing bump layer are there still unfortunatly, I noticed it on the turbulence procedural layer on bump.

Check the first image here.maybe zoom in 200% and you will see the bump being distorted with horizontal lines.
must be dependent on certain procedural perhaps..to bad I thought there was no issue before.

Michael

Yes, what is up with that!

prometheus
06-03-2013, 04:06 PM
Nice test prometheus!

Thank´s...just fiddling though, I need to go through fiddlings and testing and start focus and aim on which
ones will carry on to final renders...issues might be that I am always not content with it not matching what I have in my mind, I think I might have to high expectations on what I want to showcase:)


Yes, what is up with that!
Think we have to send a bug report..if it isn´t done already? I have no Idea.

About rocks and terrains etc..I just saw the interview from the author of abiogenisis-Richard Mans, and showcased on the site is some background info from behind the scenes.
http://www.abiogenesisfilm.com/Making_of.html

Zbrush and some high level sculpting gave a nice rock piece, Hd instances for thousands of rocks two...I wonder
though if it could have worked equally good or better by using point clusters and hypervoxels instead?

The question is how many different rocks were made to give variations? by using hypervoxels..every rock would be unique.

Anyway...that Zbrush route works just fine as can be seen in abiogenesis, I would still like to have a true volumetric item shape option for converting meshes to volumetrics..in the future:)

Michael