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photoguy1278
05-10-2013, 09:52 AM
I added weight maps to the body parts of a high poly human with a Genoma rig just as the Genoma video tutorials show (selecting the part, creating the weight map, hiding the part so as not to mix the maps) but the joints deform in a really sharp way since the edge flow is so close together, I guess. Looks like the arm-pits and upper legs are tearing apart from the body. What is the best way to allow some blending of the weights at the joints? I tried to use the "weights tool" but I'm having trouble figuring out how to use it. Any tips or video tutorials as to techniques?

lertola2
05-10-2013, 06:15 PM
Use the weight blur tool to spread out the transitions between your weight map. A dense model like this is not the best for good deformations.

photoguy1278
05-10-2013, 09:23 PM
Thank you. That makes sense. I imported it from DAZ Studio 4 as a FBX and it came in high poly. I wonder why it deforms so well in Daz but not in this form in LW. I'm pretty new with all this so I appreciate any suggestions. I'm hoping to create a workflow of creating the general shape of the character in Daz since it's so easy, then bring it in for more detailing, animation, etc. in Lightwave.

3dbr
05-11-2013, 02:44 AM
Why is growth in character 48 m ? There may be future problems with the dynamics .

chikega
05-11-2013, 08:49 AM
Your weight map has a rather abrupt transition as where Lino's has a soft transition.

114256

photoguy1278
05-13-2013, 06:14 PM
Ok. Now I have applied "Weight Blurr" from a little to a lot and in all cases I'm getting really gnarly deformations at the joints. Lertola2 says my mesh is too dense. I could accept that but is there anything else I can do besides use a lower poly character? I imported it from Daz 3D (Victoria 5) In Daz it deforms beautifully... I have to assume there is something I can do to achieve at least closer results in LW. Any idea what I'm doing wrong or what I could do better? I attached photos of the mesh when the Weight Blurr is set at 8 iterations and also at 64 for my arms, body, and leg maps. 114332114333114334

photoguy1278
05-14-2013, 02:06 PM
I imported it from DAZ Studio as an FBX object. I do notice the controllers are way too sensitive in layout. I'll try to figure out how to fix that but if you know how, please enlighten me. I'm oh so new here, but determined!

- - - Updated - - -


Why is growth in character 48 m ? There may be future problems with the dynamics .
I imported it from DAZ Studio as an FBX object so it was very big. I do notice the controllers are way too sensitive in layout. I'll try to figure out how to fix that but if you know how, please enlighten me. I'm oh so new here, but determined!

UnCommonGrafx
05-14-2013, 02:23 PM
Open this object in modeler and size it correctly. Save.

Your bones, for the shoulders, are too far inward. Move them out so that they aren't bending onto the chest.

Lessening the polys would make life a little easier for you as you animate.

bobakabob
05-14-2013, 03:31 PM
With a model this dense you might be better off not using weight maps at all to begin with, or at least using sparingly, keeping them as simple as possible. The advantage of low poly meshes like Lino's is that the influence of weight maps can be applied subtly and smoothly. Not so easy with Daz or Poser meshes.

Think of bones as magnets. You can use their influence to your advantage without getting too wrapped up in weightmaps. You can always add extra 'hold bones' if parts of the mesh are adversely affected. At frame 0 switch off all bones, draw hold bones if you need them, just ensure you always resize in 'rest length' in bone properties panel, never using the size tool. Parent the hold bones appropriately to other bones. Then select all bones, press 'r' to rest them in position associating them with the mesh and check if bone influences are working ok. Keep experimenting, you'll get the hang of it. Rigging characters in Lightwave is much easier than it used to be, even, dare I say it, fun :)

chikega
05-14-2013, 03:55 PM
I was just experimenting with your model. I actually stripped all the weight maps except for the eyeballs. Deformations seem less jarring. But there is some pulling here and there. Hold bones helped in those areas. I'm not too experienced with rigging in LW. I have more experience in messiah and it is similar to LW in that it only needs weight maps sparingly. But it has few other tricks up it's sleeve for smooth deformations such as a low-res cage deformer that can drive a high-density mesh underneath.

messiah has several cage deformers. But these plugins by Ulven are sweet:

http://lazyanimator.com/store/2013/02/03/pcagedeformer-released-and-in-action/


https://vimeo.com/64027390

photoguy1278
05-14-2013, 04:37 PM
THANK YOU, everyone for your suggestions. I am going to attempt to snap in hold bones using Genoma if I can figure it out. I will also attempt to use Decimator in Daz to decrease the polys. Only concern I have about that is that it converts to tris and I hear to stay away from tris. Then again, Ive seen Lino working with an all tri mesh somewhere I think. Crossing fingers...

chikega
05-14-2013, 04:52 PM
The tris that you've seen are in Layout wireframe display of a SubD object that is above Level zero. The render engine tesselates the mesh.

Samus
05-14-2013, 05:25 PM
Hi Chikega! The sphere part could be done with effectors...however lightwave does not like too many of them.
Ahh messiah Lw Cousin like Modo. Sigh! they grow so fast lol :p

chikega
05-14-2013, 06:18 PM
Hi Samus, yes they do! messiah has a spherize effect as well. There is one old sample scene of an arm and shoulder with 20 of them and it, as always, is blazingly fast. The spherize effect can be scaled to be oblong in shape and not just perfect spheres. I'm not sure about LW's. The collision spheres in the LocalRelax plugin has a slightly different effect on the mesh than Spherize. The shape can be scaled and animated as well. I'm still learning rigging in LW ... I'm looking forward to RebelHill's tutorials on rigging to round out my knowledge base.

photoguy1278
05-14-2013, 07:55 PM
OKAY, progress! The hold bones under the arm works much better. The pelvis hold bone isn't doing wonders yet. I'll need some more research and experimenting on how to use hold bones a little better. One other little concern is after I welded the hold bones into the Genoma rig (control 01b mirrored and welded to the tips of spine bones) I then send to Layout and it gives me a message to Clear Bone. If I choose No or Yes, it crashes Layout every time. If I choose Yes to all, it generates an 'object does not exist' error then creates the rig and everything seems to work. Weird because it didn't do that until I added the hold bones to the Genoma rig. However, even before that, I also have a lot of layout crashes when I "create rig." Every third attempt crashes but I use a Mac and I hear the OSX doesn't always play nice.

I'll keep trying. Any suggestions are 114352114353114354114355welcome.

Dodgy
05-14-2013, 11:07 PM
Is it a subdivision object? If so, have you set the subdivision order to last? I would definitely suggest eliminating some edge loops around the shoulders and thighs to make deformation easier. This is my man mesh and the subdivision cage showing some extreme deformation. I only use bones without weightmaps and 4 effectors to maintain volume in the shoulders and bum.

bobakabob
05-15-2013, 01:00 AM
The shoulders look better now. Might be better to create hold bones in Layout and parent them to appropriate parts of the rig. Make sure you follow steps in my previous post.

chikega
05-15-2013, 10:40 AM
Yes, hold bones is best done in Layout. It's a lot of trial and error to see the effect on the mesh as you translate and change it's Rest Length (Now if LW only had something like Skelevision in messiah). Genoma is great, but you may want to spend a little time learning rigging from scratch. You'll be able to add bones to a Genoma mesh in Layout to tweak it, if need be. Check out Lino Grandi's tutorial on rigging in LW:

https://www.lightwave3d.com/buy-lightwave-training/

It's a great investment.

Afalk
05-15-2013, 11:03 AM
Haven't tried to bring Genesis/V4 into LW for animation but if you have DS3A and the Game Developers Kit, (or access to the LODs for Daz Studio 4+) export one of the higher LoD versions of your model in FBX format .. ala like for a game. The 17-25K versions look quite nice and if you retain them as quads during export you should be able to apply sub-d on the LW side of the equasion but retain a far more animation suitable model to work with.

There should be, if memory serves, a Parts to Weights tool out there. use it, then blur the edges so there are no hard edges. You should not need hold bones for most general poses. I like hold bones for the clavicle/chest cavity - but othewise they hold up really well with the right weight mapping.

photoguy1278
05-15-2013, 11:10 AM
Yes, hold bones is best done in Layout. It's a lot of trial and error to see the effect on the mesh as you translate and change it's Rest Length (Now if LW only had something like Skelevision in messiah). Genoma is great, but you may want to spend a little time learning rigging from scratch. You'll be able to add bones to a Genoma mesh in Layout to tweak it, if need be. Check out Lino Grandi's tutorial on rigging in LW:

https://www.lightwave3d.com/buy-lightwave-training/

It's a great investment.


Thanks chikega. Do you know if Genoma is also covered in this series?

photoguy1278
05-15-2013, 11:13 AM
Ah never mind, it is for lightwave 10. I will try to check it out because, it seems daunting to add bones to a genoma rig in layout since I don't know whhich bones to parent to but I'll try.

photoguy1278
05-15-2013, 02:53 PM
I have picked up Lino's Rigging_Revealed and am watching it now. ;)

chikega
05-15-2013, 07:27 PM
I'm fairly new to rigging myself ... although I've been doing 3d for 20 years. I just added some hold bones to your Genoma rig/Daz model and it worked pretty well. You'll see Lino do that quite a bit and get a feel for what I'm talking about.

photoguy1278
05-16-2013, 03:30 PM
I'm fairly new to rigging myself ... although I've been doing 3d for 20 years. I just added some hold bones to your Genoma rig/Daz model and it worked pretty well. You'll see Lino do that quite a bit and get a feel for what I'm talking about.

How did the pelvic region turn out?

MarcusM
05-16-2013, 03:38 PM
Your weight map has a rather abrupt transition as where Lino's has a soft transition.

114256

Maybe for that situation this is helpfull?: (Im not tried)
http://www.lwplugindb.com/plugin/blurvmaps/

Dodgy
05-17-2013, 12:47 AM
There's a blur weight map command in 11 onwards I think.

MarcusM
05-17-2013, 02:38 AM
There's a blur weight map command in 11 onwards I think.

I saw now... there is in 11.5 :]