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Hail
04-28-2013, 08:51 PM
Thank you very much NT for taking away switch selection in modeler and limiting convert selection to only edges.
Shame..!!!

Kryslin
04-28-2013, 09:06 PM
Huh? Under Select -> Convert To... -> You have options for all three. I freely switch between all three, no troubles. (Win 7, LW 11.5 x32/x64)

Hail
04-28-2013, 09:14 PM
Oh my bad.. perhaps I should have cross checked before losing my sanity.
Looks like something got screwed up on my end, convert to.. gives me only edges and what about switch selection? Did it get the boot or I am missing that too?

erikals
04-28-2013, 11:03 PM
either you did a mistake, or LW deleted them on a crash (happens)
(that's why i always save my menu / shortcut configs)

jwiede
04-29-2013, 12:20 AM
This whole "corrupting configs" situation really is getting quite out of hand.

If they can't fix the root problem, Newtek needs to auto-backup configs, add a CRC or similar "canary" to the config file when saved (properly), and when the loaded version's CRC is blown, notify user and offer to revert to most recent backup. Just leaving users to fend for ourselves isn't acceptable, given how frequently problems are occuring, and how obscure and problematic the effects of config corruption are in LW.

Implementing something like I've suggested would also probably cut down on support overhead, and might even potentially help find the "smoking gun"/root cause behind these corruptions.

Lewis
04-29-2013, 12:25 AM
This whole "corrupting configs" situation really is getting quite out of hand.

If they can't fix the root problem, Newtek needs to auto-backup configs, add a CRC or similar "canary" to the config file when saved (properly), and when the loaded version's CRC is blown, notify user and offer to revert to most recent backup. Just leaving users to fend for ourselves isn't acceptable, given how frequently problems are occuring, and how obscure and problematic the effects of config corruption are in LW.


IMHO, they need to stop this silliness of "exit to save" and give proper workspaces and saved ONLY by user. I don't wan tot that software saves me window positions or shortcuts or anything if i didn't tell him to do so. This automatic saving on exit is makes the most of problems :(.

geo_n
04-29-2013, 12:56 AM
Fwiw other appz have worse config system. UI, tabs, kbshortcuts, etc are harder to migrate or restore. Lw has one of the easiest way to restore and migrate configs. Its especially easy to scan plugins and import tab menu branches.

stevecullum
04-29-2013, 01:10 AM
IMHO, they need to stop this silliness of "exit to save" and give proper workspaces and saved ONLY by user. I don't wan tot that software saves me window positions or shortcuts or anything if i didn't tell him to do so. This automatic saving on exit is makes the most of problems :(.

Agreed, there should be a save configs button within the UI. In the meantime you could always set the config files to read only to prevent unintended changes.

Lewis
04-29-2013, 01:25 AM
Fwiw other appz have worse config system. UI, tabs, kbshortcuts, etc are harder to migrate or restore. Lw has one of the easiest way to restore and migrate configs. Its especially easy to scan plugins and import tab menu branches.

Well i can't say for "other apps" you are thinking of ('coz you didn't say which ones :)) but i can say that i easily transferred AfterEffects shortcuts/workspace to new machine and all is as it was on old one. And it's not problem how it's transfered to new machine but problem is that it really shouldn't SAVE on exit so if i move numeric window or close it then LW on next open will be that way :(.

Of course there should be way to allow SaveAll/Export or somethign like that, look up for MozBackup (http://mozbackup.jasnapaka.com/) app which can trasnfer Firefox/Thunderbid with plugins/user/configs/mails/newsgroups all in single file in just few clicks so it's piece of cake to transfer to new machine with full functionality :). And Since Lw configs is pure ASCII TEXT that shouldn't be any problem to make once they really get willing to do it after so many years we've asking for that.

tcoursey
04-29-2013, 07:45 AM
This whole "corrupting configs" situation really is getting quite out of hand.

If they can't fix the root problem, Newtek needs to auto-backup configs, add a CRC or similar "canary" to the config file when saved (properly), and when the loaded version's CRC is blown, notify user and offer to revert to most recent backup. Just leaving users to fend for ourselves isn't acceptable, given how frequently problems are occuring, and how obscure and problematic the effects of config corruption are in LW.

Implementing something like I've suggested would also probably cut down on support overhead, and might even potentially help find the "smoking gun"/root cause behind these corruptions.

This would be a nice feature. I don't have many issues but ironicly when I do LW asks me if I want to REPORT the issue. It pulls up a 5 year old system dialog that allows me to send bug reports, to what is probably an empty server. Since they began using FogBugs they need to update the crash report system as well.

Little things like this get looked over quite a bit it seems. For the most part I dont' have issue with my workflow. Very rare to crash in 11.0.3 or 11.5 now....but still!

jwiede
04-29-2013, 11:13 AM
IMHO, they need to stop this silliness of "exit to save" and give proper workspaces and saved ONLY by user. I don't wan tot that software saves me window positions or shortcuts or anything if i didn't tell him to do so. This automatic saving on exit is makes the most of problems :(.
True, getting rid of auto-saving and making it explicitly user-driven would likely mitigate the corruption problem quite a bit, and I too would MUCH prefer that, but I just don't see that scope of change happening. I just focused on what they could do to try and deal with the corruption with minimal changes to the mechanism itself.

jwiede
04-29-2013, 11:16 AM
In the meantime you could always set the config files to read only to prevent unintended changes.
Sadly, this causes problems for a number of plugins and even LW itself in places, due to limited/inadequate error handling. It's just trading one set of problems for another.

jwiede
04-29-2013, 11:26 AM
Fwiw other appz have worse config system. UI, tabs, kbshortcuts, etc are harder to migrate or restore. Lw has one of the easiest way to restore and migrate configs. Its especially easy to scan plugins and import tab menu branches.
I don't know which apps you're referring to, but in my experience, most other 3D pkgs have much less convoluted install/uninstall of plugins (just drag in/out of a dir, typically), normally including default menu entries as well. Compared to that, LW requires many more steps and more manual effort overall. Also, LW's requirements for replacing an existing plugin with a more recent version are particularly annoying, IMO, as is how easily plugin:menu-item bindings are broken in such situations (and generally, for that matter).

jwiede
04-30-2013, 10:15 AM
This would be a nice feature. I don't have many issues but ironicly when I do LW asks me if I want to REPORT the issue. It pulls up a 5 year old system dialog that allows me to send bug reports, to what is probably an empty server. Since they began using FogBugs they need to update the crash report system as well.
Sadly, they were already using Fogbugz when they rolled out that crash reporter.

IMO, Newtek should take a close look at how C4D handles crashes/unexpected-terminations, bundling up crash data & logs automatically when next launched, then occasionally offering to send the accumulated data to MAXON for processing. The approach is much less intrusive, and thus much more likely to convince users to enable/permit it to upload the info. It doesn't provide as much info as if users potentially were thorough about filling out the crash reporter form (and it actually worked uploading it), but realistically most users won't do so. By working from that presumption in the first place, the C4D approach ensures MAXON still receives a decent statistical sampling of the problems users are encountering (and via the app state, when they encounter them), even if the individual reports aren't as detailed about what the user was conceptually trying to achieve.

geo_n
05-01-2013, 10:39 AM
Adobe usually involves a lot of separate installations windows style with wizards. This goes for 3dmax, too, or some only drag to viewport each plugin or script, tedious. The smart plugin makers for 3dmax just makes a zip file to extract to startup folder in 3dmax but thats rare.
I hate it when there's a new workstation that needs to be installed all the plugins from these two apps. In lightwave most plugins and scripts are just scan from lightwave, done. Very few need install wizard and some have simple lockid with serial procedures.
Regarding building custom menu and tabs. Lightwave custom tabs can be imported from lw 9.6 and up without problems. I've never figured out how to do that with the other two WITHOUT overwriting some default menu and tabs from the new version, like max 2009 to max 2013. I have to rebuild menu, icon toolbar, etc from 2009 to 2013.

Lewis
05-01-2013, 01:16 PM
I've never figured out how to do that with the other two WITHOUT overwriting some default menu and tabs from the new version, like max 2009 to max 2013. I have to rebuild menu, icon toolbar, etc from 2009 to 2013.

In my MAX I have "Save Custom UI scene" and "Load Custom UI Scene", same goes for shortcuts so i usually endup in Saving Default as my custom Default name (somethign like "DefaultsBackup", then heavily adjust current default and save under default name, in that way I can go back to default by simple load and i can save/load my custom also :) But yeah I also overwrite default settings to make MAX load those actually :). But when you look little closer you do that in LW also, It's always same name like LWHUB.cfg, LWEXT11.CFG, LWM11.cfg. So you do overwrite in LW also but biggest problem is that LW owervrites it every time you EXIT program :/.

geo_n
05-02-2013, 04:41 AM
In my MAX I have "Save Custom UI scene" and "Load Custom UI Scene", same goes for shortcuts so i usually endup in Saving Default as my custom Default name (somethign like "DefaultsBackup", then heavily adjust current default and save under default name, in that way I can go back to default by simple load and i can save/load my custom also :) But yeah I also overwrite default settings to make MAX load those actually :). But when you look little closer you do that in LW also, It's always same name like LWHUB.cfg, LWEXT11.CFG, LWM11.cfg. So you do overwrite in LW also but biggest problem is that LW owervrites it every time you EXIT program :/.

That will not work in 3dmax for custom menus on top and custom toolbar buttons. If you load a .mnu(menubar) or .cui(toolbar) it overwrites everything in 3dmax. So if one user wants to share his menubar or toolbar with another, you rebuild it from scratch. Now they even change .mnu to .mnux and .cui to .cuix in new 3dmax version so old menu and toolbars don't work and I rebuild them for hours and hours.
The "custom menu branch" that can be shared/imported individually in lw since 9.6, I like this feaature in lw. :D
In lw you can make config files read only or copy it somewhere so you can restore when something goes wrong.

erikals
05-02-2013, 05:12 AM
yeah, though not 100%, i like the custom branch feature too http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fDuhd3h9MY

Lewis
05-02-2013, 05:20 AM
That will not work in 3dmax for custom menus on top and custom toolbar buttons. If you load a .mnu(menubar) or .cui(toolbar) it overwrites everything in 3dmax. So if one user wants to share his menubar or toolbar with another, you rebuild it from scratch. Now they even change .mnu to .mnux and .cui to .cuix in new 3dmax version so old menu and toolbars don't work and I rebuild them for hours and hours.
The "custom menu branch" that can be shared/imported individually in lw since 9.6, I like this feaature in lw. :D
In lw you can make config files read only or copy it somewhere so you can restore when something goes wrong.

Kill me if i know how but last year i transferred MAX 2011 configs/menus and shortcuts to MAX 2012 without problems with that procedur eof save/load ease. Granted I don't have heavily adjusted menus but still it worked fine for me. and I don't have access to newest MAX versions to try there but this was easy enough for me.