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Sarford
04-23-2013, 02:05 AM
Hi guys,

I allready fogbuzzed this but I thought to let you know as well.
I have a scene with some obj files instead of lwo's. When I did a 'save all objects', Lightwave overwrote those obj's with a faulty file.
The next time I opened the scene, the obj's weren't there anymore. The ob's themselves couldn't load in Lightwave or any other 3D program anymore.
So watch out with using native obj's, better to make lwo's of them.

ps: the reason for not having everything lwo is that I'm using LW only for the dynamics.

JBT27
04-23-2013, 02:57 AM
Thanks. I don't think I have ever used OBJs in Layout - never had a cause to, but now I definitely won't! I guess I can see why this might break, but then it shouldn't trash files either.

Julian.

3DGFXStudios
04-23-2013, 04:28 AM
HAve you tried changing the obj extension to .lwo after saving?
It's always better to save obj's to lwo's first because obj doesn't support all the surface properties, like nodes for example.

Phil
04-23-2013, 05:22 AM
Actually, I am not convinced this is a bug, but more user error. You imported/loaded a format that isn't LW's native object format. You didn't then export, but did 'save all'. I would expect this to write out LWO data. Arguably, it should prompt that the file extensions are incorrect, but 'save' always writes out the application's native format. There are export commands available for non-native saving. There are some things that the user needs to pay attention to - the application did what it was told to do.

Sarford
04-23-2013, 06:25 AM
@ 3DGFXStudios
Now I've changed them to LWO's and now they work fine. I don't need any shading though as after the dynamics are done everything is going back to Softimage.

@ Phil
Saving all objects should just work right? LW can export obj's so it shouldn't be a problem to save them, I don't even care if it converts them to LWO's but I don't think you can attribute destroying files to a user error. You can't even open them anymore with another program, I call that a serious bug.

Phil
04-23-2013, 07:43 AM
@ Phil
Saving all objects should just work right? LW can export obj's so it shouldn't be a problem to save them, I don't even care if it converts them to LWO's but I don't think you can attribute destroying files to a user error. You can't even open them anymore with another program, I call that a serious bug.

My point is that they aren't destroyed and that the thread title is unduly scary. As you said, they are overwritten by valid LWO data. Destroyed would suggest a total failure where corruption happens in such a way that nothing can be done.

This has been the case for some time : export is different to save. Import and export functionality is a different component (Valkyrie plugin) compared to the native format support (LWO). The user is expected to know the difference between import and load, and export and save. It's not dissimilar in other applications. Since you asked to 'save all objects', the program did what you asked it to do and saved out to the filenames that were loaded in. As I said, it seems reasonable to suggest that Layout should warn you that the file extensions aren't correct and ask what you want to do - that's what this issue seems to resolve to in terms of a bug report that could be filed and relatively quickly worked on.

lardbros
04-23-2013, 07:55 AM
You use the word 'Import' but if you actually look at the import menu within Layout, it only has one thing there. Scenes and 3rd party files like FBX are loaded by using the 'load' command not Import... therefore I'd have expected Layout to work in such a way, as when you save all objects (despite them being obj) it would save them as the original file format. I'd call this a bug, or a poor implementation, but either way... it's a poor workflow that should be fixed.

If newtek changed their load function to be satndardised to JUST the LightWave format, then great... but as long as there is no diffrentiation, then of course it will cause confusion and issues.

Sarford
04-23-2013, 12:06 PM
My point is that they aren't destroyed and that the thread title is unduly scary. As you said, they are overwritten by valid LWO data. Destroyed would suggest a total failure where corruption happens in such a way that nothing can be done.

This has been the case for some time : export is different to save. Import and export functionality is a different component (Valkyrie plugin) compared to the native format support (LWO). The user is expected to know the difference between import and load, and export and save. It's not dissimilar in other applications. Since you asked to 'save all objects', the program did what you asked it to do and saved out to the filenames that were loaded in. As I said, it seems reasonable to suggest that Layout should warn you that the file extensions aren't correct and ask what you want to do - that's what this issue seems to resolve to in terms of a bug report that could be filed and relatively quickly worked on.

Even if I change the extention to LWO Lightwave is still unable to read in those files. The file size decreased from 28 KB of the original to 1 KB of the ones Lightwave wrote out. In short, the file is broken.
The title of the thread is not unduly scary; Lightwave 11.5 destroys files, there is no two ways about it.
And it does it both on PC and Mac.

lardbros
05-06-2013, 04:23 PM
There are, unfortunately, a few problems like this with LW and most longtime LW users won't even find them as they are used to working in LW and LW only.

Now, the problems arise when non-LW users move over to use LW and stumble across some strange things like this...
LW users will say it's obviously not a bug, whereas things like this shouldn't even be possible. It's down to a programmer to make software as easy as possible to use, yet jumping through hoops and remembering that upon loading an .obj that .obj then needs to be saved out as a .lwo? That seems crazy to me... and the people suffering from this problem.

These things do need to be addressed as they cause issues newcomers to LW.

jaxtone
10-26-2013, 04:46 PM
This is really worrying me! Why hasnīt Newtek solved this problem in 11.6?

After I installed 11.6 nothing worked properly anymore and obj files seems to be unknown for Lightwave! Is this a joke?

spherical
10-26-2013, 06:25 PM
No, it's not a joke. Something is screwed up with your system. No one else is currently having the problems only you describe.

What OS?
If on Windows, did you run the install as Administrator?
Did you start with fresh config files or just go ahead and use the ones that were already there?
11.6 is a Pre-Release. It needs to be installed in its own directory and should not be used for production work.

bobakabob
10-27-2013, 02:47 AM
Never had any problem with Save All in LW 11.5 corrupting files. As Phil and 3DGFX suggest, after importing an obj always save it out of Modeler as a LWO then everything will play well.

Sensei
10-27-2013, 04:04 AM
No, it's not a joke. Something is screwed up with your system. No one else is currently having the problems only you describe.

I had it once. And it's exactly like OP described. Load OBJ (f.e. drag'n'drop), then forget about Save Object As.., and then save whole scene, and OBJ is screwed up (LWO is written instead under OBJ name or so)..
If it's LWO then renaming .obj to .lwo and reloading scene should fix it.

jaxtone
10-27-2013, 05:59 AM
Spherical! I once went to a restaurant. There was a fly in the soup. When complaining and trying to get some attention from the waitress this is what I heard:

"- Something is screwed up with your system. No one else is currently having the problems only you describe."

I did run install in Admin mode and yes I did shut down every anti-virus program during the process! I the 11.6 version where also placed in itīs own folder by automation when it was installed! But still, I donīt see any solutions and I guess not anyone in here knows enough to help! But letīs be creative any way.

I run Windows 7 professional and I am not sure if I understand the new load object routine in LW. 11.6 of anyting has changed in the system. Is it really a new process when loading files nowadays?

bobakabob
10-27-2013, 07:43 AM
Jaxtone, Have you tried manually adding plugins?
In Modeler go to Utilities -> Plugins -> Add Plugins then navigate to your Main LW folder and go to Support -> Plugins -> Import export or equivalent. You can also do this in Layout but I'd try loading your obj files in Modeler first then save as LWO first.
Also go to Edit -> Gen options -> OBJ and check your options.
Do a search for your *.cfg files delete and then close LW and the Hub before you do any of this.
Cheers,
Bob

jwiede
10-27-2013, 06:39 PM
You use the word 'Import' but if you actually look at the import menu within Layout, it only has one thing there. Scenes and 3rd party files like FBX are loaded by using the 'load' command not Import... therefore I'd have expected Layout to work in such a way, as when you save all objects (despite them being obj) it would save them as the original file format. I'd call this a bug, or a poor implementation, but either way... it's a poor workflow that should be fixed.

If newtek changed their load function to be satndardised to JUST the LightWave format, then great... but as long as there is no diffrentiation, then of course it will cause confusion and issues.

Agreed 100%. IF LW uses "load" to load filetypes other than LWO, then it is responsible for saving them back into whatever filetype it loaded them from originally. Whether LWO is its "native" format is irrelevant, as it makes absolutely no differentiation between loading LWOs and loading OBJs, it uses the same command for native and non-native filetypes alike. I see no way the OPs issue could reasonably be construed to be "user error", if LW insists on differentiating filetype loaded/saved based on the extension, then it MUST honor the extensions in all cases.

Further, it shouldn't go and overwrite existing files without querying the user (as it does in nigh-all other cases), so that it did so in this case is inconsistent with LW's own "normal file saving" behavior, orthogonal to the the filetype extension issue. There are (at least) two bugs in the scenario the OP described, the "failure to obey extension" bug, and the "failure to warn on overwriting file(s)" bug.

Jaxtone, you wouldn't appreciate others hijacking your problem threads, so why not show the same consideration to others.

lardbros
10-28-2013, 07:57 AM
Completely agree... LightWave group should definitely sort this one out! Not a good bug at all in my opinion! Surprised they haven't caught it for 11.6 yet! :(

jaxtone
10-28-2013, 11:52 AM
I have definitely added plugins manually... but itīs the config thing I wonder about!

Last time I even tried to change the config files by following a fellows advice and delete them I couldnīt even find a catīs tail afterwards, everything was gone and I couldnīt start, load or change anything. So please be more specific and define exactly how the process shall be controlled and managed to keep Lightwave up and running!

(Maybe this isnīt a big thing at all and I must mention the last time I tried this was back in the 90īs and maybe LW has changed it interface enough to not let technically un-interested people be placed in a dumb *** box :)

DigitalDeuce
10-28-2013, 12:37 PM
Hi guys,

I allready fogbuzzed this but I thought to let you know as well.
I have a scene with some obj files instead of lwo's. When I did a 'save all objects', Lightwave overwrote those obj's with a faulty file.
The next time I opened the scene, the obj's weren't there anymore. The ob's themselves couldn't load in Lightwave or any other 3D program anymore.
So watch out with using native obj's, better to make lwo's of them.

ps: the reason for not having everything lwo is that I'm using LW only for the dynamics.

Can you send me the report number?

spherical
10-28-2013, 08:36 PM
Spherical! I once went to a restaurant. There was a fly in the soup. When complaining and trying to get some attention from the waitress this is what I heard:

"- Something is screwed up with your system. No one else is currently having the problems only you describe."

Oh, please.... :\


I did run install in Admin mode and yes I did shut down every anti-virus program during the process! I the 11.6 version where also placed in itīs own folder by automation when it was installed! But still, I donīt see any solutions and I guess not anyone in here knows enough to help! But letīs be creative any way.

I run Windows 7 professional and I am not sure if I understand the new load object routine in LW. 11.6 of anyting has changed in the system. Is it really a new process when loading files nowadays?

Later you wrote:


I have definitely added plugins manually... but itīs the config thing I wonder about!

Last time I even tried to change the config files by following a fellows advice and delete them I couldnīt even find a catīs tail afterwards, everything was gone and I couldnīt start, load or change anything. So please be more specific and define exactly how the process shall be controlled and managed to keep Lightwave up and running!

(Maybe this isnīt a big thing at all and I must mention the last time I tried this was back in the 90īs and maybe LW has changed it interface enough to not let technically un-interested people be placed in a dumb *** box :)

Well, there is that. Yes, almost everything has changed since "the '90's". The "config thing" is a long understood convention that you do not install any updated LW version without deleting all config files for that version before launching it. Especially in instances where versions are pre-release (beta), like 11.6 is now. A lot of things change while the product is in development, sometimes radically.

Now, as has been addressed later in the thread since I tried to help you, there is evidently a File > Open (or Import) > Save confusion going on within LW. Personally, I have never just blithely saved an imported format file without going through due diligence and using Save AS.. in order to make sure that what I am saving does go to the correct format. I do that first, so that I know that I will not space it and Bork the model later, because I wasn't paying attention.

Like I said previously, I opened a pile of OBJ files in 11.6 and they all worked as expected. So, shoot me.

jaxtone
10-29-2013, 01:50 AM
Spherical!

The latest 10 years every support, or purchase call or message with Newtek representatives have been very pleasent. My private opinion is that they always try to be helpful and professional in communication with me as a customer.

I may have been very frustrated because of the situation that found itīs solution yesterday without no logical reason at all. The tenth time I un- and reinstalled LW 11.6 it suddenly was able to open all old OBJ files without a problem. (For your safety I can tell that they were also saved as LWO files. But, when trying to find out if LW 11.6 only neglected newer OBJ files the most reasonable thing must be to open older OBJ files in comparization with the new ones that could be corrupted.)

Maybe I shall not write this but since you mentioned the 90īs I just noticed that one thing hasnīt changed since the mid 90īs and thatīs the fact of that some people attach a big headed, mean attitude when they are willing to "help" other wavers with problems. In 1996 I became a member of mIRCīs Lightwave channel and noticed exactly the same bitterness in replies to newbies similar to what youīre just trying to create here and now! I am looking for help with detailed instructions of how to solve a problem not being visualized as a total idiot... and by the way, If you succeéd in opening millions of OBJ files doesnīt help me a bit! Cool down a bit please! Itīs me who are supposed to be the frustrated one, not you! (You may call or point me out as whatever you wanīt but that wonīt solve the problem either!)

I must have been misunderstood here since the process in "open file", "save file" or "save file as" isnīt the problem here. By the way I always save my files as LWO objects if there isnīt a good reason of not doing so! If you take your time reading my request for help again thereīs a totally different view of how things didnīt work as usual.


Oh, please.... :\



Later you wrote:



Well, there is that. Yes, almost everything has changed since "the '90's". The "config thing" is a long understood convention that you do not install any updated LW version without deleting all config files for that version before launching it. Especially in instances where versions are pre-release (beta), like 11.6 is now. A lot of things change while the product is in development, sometimes radically.

Now, as has been addressed later in the thread since I tried to help you, there is evidently a File > Open (or Import) > Save confusion going on within LW. Personally, I have never just blithely saved an imported format file without going through due diligence and using Save AS.. in order to make sure that what I am saving does go to the correct format. I do that first, so that I know that I will not space it and Bork the model later, because I wasn't paying attention.

Like I said previously, I opened a pile of OBJ files in 11.6 and they all worked as expected. So, shoot me.