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View Full Version : Lightwave 11.5 Extremely BUGGY!!!! Need these issues fixed



jboudreau
04-22-2013, 05:53 PM
Hi Guys

Why are their so many things that worked perfectly in Lightwave 11.03 that are extremely flawed in 11.5. I absolutely love lightwave but this is getting a bit ridiculous

For instance open up a instance scene in layout (Grass and LW Logos.lws) for example. Go into the instance editor and click on the check marks turning off the different instances and guess what nothing happens in the viewport it doesn't reflect the change, In Lightwave 11.03 same machine works as expected.

Add a texture to a model in layout using the surface editor. Click on the "T" for example in the Color tab to add a texture map. Once added if you un check the layer name it doesn't show that change in the viewport.

It like the viewport is not showing any changes for many things.

I could go on and on with tons of bugs I am finding in this version that work find in 11.0.3 Why are things like this getting broken and why are they not getting picked up through the beta testing?

Sorry for the rant I'm just getting really frustrated when simple things like this are broken in the new version. This should of never been realeased out to the public like this or their should be a fix for this by now.

Thanks,
Jason

Spinland
04-22-2013, 06:03 PM
https://fogbugz.newtek.com/

jboudreau
04-22-2013, 06:13 PM
https://fogbugz.newtek.com/

Hi

Supposedley most of these issues have already been fogbugged. But that still doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't even be their in the first place. I can see issues with new tools but not stuff that has been working for the past 6 or 7 versions that's just ridiculous in my opinion

Also I have used fogbugz before and to be honest it seems to be a waste of time. My problem was never addressed and the fogbugz was never even looked at.

Thanks,
Jason

Spinland
04-22-2013, 06:16 PM
Granted, and I've found myself frustrated, too. Just wasn't sure whether you were aware of the procedure to get them looked at (as opposed to venting here, which does feel good). :)

jboudreau
04-22-2013, 06:20 PM
Granted, and I've found myself frustrated, too. Just wasn't sure whether you were aware of the procedure to get them looked at (as opposed to venting here, which does feel good). :)

Thanks man, I know what you mean. They really have to start beta testing with real world objects instead of boxes and balls. I could spend a whole 2 days just fogbugging everything I go to do I find a bug. It's really hard to believe that these bugs where not seen during the beta testing.

Thanks,
Jason

hrgiger
04-22-2013, 06:25 PM
Well I'm pretty sure they're working on a maintenance update so if there was a time to fogbugz it, the time is now.

nickdigital
04-22-2013, 06:29 PM
You should continue to submit bug reports, or follow up on the ones you feel haven't been resolved. It's easy for a bug to slip through the cracks. Following up is a great way to get the bug back on their radar.

Spinland
04-22-2013, 06:38 PM
I had several reports outstanding, then all of a sudden I received a spate of updates and requests for more information, followed by reports of them being fixed. Things are definitely on the move right now.

jboudreau
04-22-2013, 06:41 PM
Thanks guys, Well I can tell you one major bug that I found that they would love to get fog bugged. How to use lightwave 11.5 on multiple computers using the same license file. Now that was a serious bug they missed.

nickdigital
04-22-2013, 06:45 PM
That sounds like network licensing to me, which is technically a feature request. Submit it and hopefully it's something that will get added as that's something I would definitely find useful.

jboudreau
04-22-2013, 07:01 PM
That sounds like network licensing to me, which is technically a feature request. Submit it and hopefully it's something that will get added as that's something I would definitely find useful.

Somewhat You know when you go and try and use lightwave 11.5 on another machine for example your laptop and it says their is no seat available because lightwave is running on your desktop well their is a bug to get around that no seat available screen where it doesn't come up and you have lightwave running on both your laptop and desktop at the same time.

Thanks,
Jason

Phil
04-22-2013, 07:19 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. It's a license violation to have more sessions of LW running than you have licenses for. If it blocks you from doing so, that's intended. If there's a false error because you aren't running LW on another machine at the same time, that would be a bug.

Note that this also covers using Modeler on one machine and Layout on another. With one license, you can't do that - you can run both applications at the same time on a single machine, but not Modeler on one and Layout on the other. Just like you weren't able to do so with the dongle license control

jboudreau
04-22-2013, 07:28 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. It's a license violation to have more sessions of LW running than you have licenses for. If it blocks you from doing so, that's intended. If there's a false error because you aren't running LW on another machine at the same time, that would be a bug.

Note that this also covers using Modeler on one machine and Layout on another. With one license, you can't do that - you can run both applications at the same time on a single machine, but not Modeler on one and Layout on the other. Just like you weren't able to do so with the dongle license control

Hi Phil

Yes I know it's a license violation and I don't do it because I have one machine that uses my dongle license and one that uses my file license. But what I am saying for those that would want to run two versions at the same time their is a flaw in the licensing that would allow someone to use lightwave on two different machines. I know you can use layout or modeler more than once on the same machine but this is not what I am talking about. I am talking about running layout on one machine and modeler or layout on a second machine. For example open up layout on machine 1 (desktop) and running layout on machine 2 (laptop) at the same time. I know you couldn't do this before with the dongle security but you can with the license file security because of this flaw/bug I came across.

Thanks,
Jason

COBRASoft
04-22-2013, 07:39 PM
^^ I myself find this very interesting 'feature'. I've installed LW on my desktop and laptop computers. My desktop has the dongle, my laptop has the file. I never use my laptop at home when I have a powerhouse as a desktop. When I'm out of the house, the file license works on my laptop while my desktop is shut down at home and nobody can launch LW there. I'm not running LW at the same time on multiple computers, so no violation of licensing if you ask me and also no struggle with dongle :).

jboudreau
04-22-2013, 07:49 PM
^^ I myself find this very interesting 'feature'. I've installed LW on my desktop and laptop computers. My desktop has the dongle, my laptop has the file. I never use my laptop at home when I have a powerhouse as a desktop. When I'm out of the house, the file license works on my laptop while my desktop is shut down at home and nobody can launch LW there. I'm not running LW at the same time on multiple computers, so no violation of licensing if you ask me and also no struggle with dongle :).

Hi

What does everyone mean by violation of licensing. I'm using lightwave legally and how it's suppose to be used. All I'm saying is their is a bug/flaw that allows someone to use lightwave on 2 different machines.

lino.grandi
04-23-2013, 11:37 AM
Hi Guys

Why are their so many things that worked perfectly in Lightwave 11.03 that are extremely flawed in 11.5. I absolutely love lightwave but this is getting a bit ridiculous

For instance open up a instance scene in layout (Grass and LW Logos.lws) for example. Go into the instance editor and click on the check marks turning off the different instances and guess what nothing happens in the viewport it doesn't reflect the change, In Lightwave 11.03 same machine works as expected.


Add a texture to a model in layout using the surface editor. Click on the "T" for example in the Color tab to add a texture map. Once added if you un check the layer name it doesn't show that change in the viewport.

It like the viewport is not showing any changes for many things.

I could go on and on with tons of bugs I am finding in this version that work find in 11.0.3 Why are things like this getting broken and why are they not getting picked up through the beta testing?

Sorry for the rant I'm just getting really frustrated when simple things like this are broken in the new version. This should of never been realeased out to the public like this or their should be a fix for this by now.

Thanks,
Jason

While I do not agree on defining LW11.5 as "super-buggy", for sure there may be things we need to fix.

I've personally verified the problems you've found. I can reproduce the one relative to the OpenGL texture problem, while unchecking instances works fine (tested on the Grass scene).

We (as all our testers, users as you included) do not test our software on balls and boxes, but on real production scenes and objects.

Of course it may happen that adding a feature (and in 11.5 we added a lot of them) may change something and "break" what was previously working as expected.

Most of users tend to texture objects with VPR active, and that's probably the reason why the problem with OpenGL texture has been missed.

FogBugz, and of course the forums, represent the best way to report a bug and have it fixed.

I would like you to submit the "tons" of bugs you've found in 11.5, with content and steps to reproduce them, so we can verify and fix them in the next release.

BeeVee
04-23-2013, 12:06 PM
As mentioned by a previous poster, it isn't a bug that you can't use Modeler on one machine and Layout on another. You couldn't with dongled licences with previous versions, so nothing has really changed.

B

jboudreau
04-23-2013, 12:37 PM
While I do not agree on defining LW11.5 as "super-buggy", for sure there may be things we need to fix.

I've personally verified the problems you've found. I can reproduce the one relative to the OpenGL texture problem, while unchecking instances works fine (tested on the Grass scene).

We (as all our testers, users as you included) do not test our software on balls and boxes, but on real production scenes and objects.

Of course it may happen that adding a feature (and in 11.5 we added a lot of them) may change something and "break" what was previously working as expected.

Most of users tend to texture objects with VPR active, and that's probably the reason why the problem with OpenGL texture has been missed.

FogBugz, and of course the forums, represent the best way to report a bug and have it fixed.

I would like you to submit the "tons" of bugs you've found in 11.5, with content and steps to reproduce them, so we can verify and fix them in the next release.


Hi Lino

I'm not trying to start anything here, I was just really frustrated last night while trying to work on a job for a client. On this little job alone I found at least 10 bugs that when I have time will fog bug. I'm not sure how you can say that 11.5 is not super buggy. I started this job in 11.5 and I had to revert back to 11.03 because their were so many issues I couldn't get the job done otherwise (11.0.3 no issues). I don't know about you but I'm sure many artist can agree that when we are working on production work for clients we don't have time to be debugging software and fog bugging all the time this is why we have beta testing for. Maybe we need to get more people involved in the beta testing or something.

I understand that some bugs can sneak through the cracks especially on new features but stuff like the texturing above that has worked for years is now broken. Just because someone uses VPR to texture doesn't mean everyone does and when you get into some really complex scenes then the viewport is what you need not VPR. Not everyone has a super fast system to be able to run VPR all the time. So really this should of definitely been checked during the beta testing process. When I talk about beta testing on spheres and boxes, what I meant was that the beta testing seems flawed especially when bugs like the one I explained earlier gets through. Everything I found as a bug works great in 11.0.3 so it seems like stuff that was changed in 11.5 was not tested after the fact or as through as it should have been.

Why couldn't we get an update or something when a bug has been fixed. Fog Bugz is also flawed in my opinion their is no way for a user like myself to know if a bug has already been flagged by another user so if I go and flag a bug that has already been flagged then it is a complete waste of my time any yours. All I am doing is duplicating something that has already been flagged by another user. I think we should get an update or something where we can be notified of these bugs and if they have been fixed or not. This way we are not wasting each others time.

Another great thing would be to have a check for updates system, almost every other piece of software has one but lightwave. This way when bugs were fixed an update could come out that would fix those bugs this way artists wouldn't be waiting around for months to get a bug fixed that they may desperately need fixed.

Sorry for the rant but I'm sure I'm not the only artist saying these things.

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
04-23-2013, 12:39 PM
As mentioned by a previous poster, it isn't a bug that you can't use Modeler on one machine and Layout on another. You couldn't with dongled licences with previous versions, so nothing has really changed.

B

Hi

I wasn't saying it was a bug that you can't use Modeler on one machine and Layout on another. I was saying it was a bug that you can. Their is a bug in the licensing security that will allow a user to use layout and modeler on different machines at the same time.

Thanks,
Jason

Wade
04-23-2013, 03:31 PM
And so I hope this one get put last on the list of things to fix. :)

lino.grandi
04-23-2013, 03:45 PM
Hi Lino

I'm not trying to start anything here, I was just really frustrated last night while trying to work on a job for a client. On this little job alone I found at least 10 bugs that when I have time will fog bug. I'm not sure how you can say that 11.5 is not super buggy.

I can because I'm using it, as other users (and studios) are.



I started this job in 11.5 and I had to revert back to 11.03 because their were so many issues I couldn't get the job done otherwise (11.0.3 no issues). I don't know about you but I'm sure many artist can agree that when we are working on production work for clients we don't have time to be debugging software and fog bugging all the time this is why we have beta testing for. Maybe we need to get more people involved in the beta testing or something.

Beta testing it's never finished. I've always done my best to improve my software as a user, bringing up problems and bug. Most of them have been fixed. Again, it's a process that never stops.




I understand that some bugs can sneak through the cracks especially on new features but stuff like the texturing above that has worked for years is now broken.

A 3d software is not made of black boxes. There are dependencies that can "break" something, like it happened in the case of the opengl problem.





Just because someone uses VPR to texture doesn't mean everyone does and when you get into some really complex scenes then the viewport is what you need not VPR. Not everyone has a super fast system to be able to run VPR all the time. So really this should of definitely been checked during the beta testing process.

I was just giving a possible explanation of why something like that has not been noticed and fixed. I'm not saying that everyone should use VPR during the process.




When I talk about beta testing on spheres and boxes, what I meant was that the beta testing seems flawed especially when bugs like the one I explained earlier gets through. Everything I found as a bug works great in 11.0.3 so it seems like stuff that was changed in 11.5 was not tested after the fact or as through as it should have been.

Every process can be improved, for sure. And looks like that not all the bugs you've found are reproducible (the instance problem). So I don't know how many of the bugs you've found are really bugs or something that can be related to your personal settings/configuration.



Why couldn't we get an update or something when a bug has been fixed. Fog Bugz is also flawed in my opinion their is no way for a user like myself to know if a bug has already been flagged by another user so if I go and flag a bug that has already been flagged then it is a complete waste of my time any yours. All I am doing is duplicating something that has already been flagged by another user. I think we should get an update or something where we can be notified of these bugs and if they have been fixed or not. This way we are not wasting each others time.

Yes, the system can be improved. But it's better to get a duplicate than nothing. ;)




Another great thing would be to have a check for updates system, almost every other piece of software has one but lightwave. This way when bugs were fixed an update could come out that would fix those bugs this way artists wouldn't be waiting around for months to get a bug fixed that they may desperately need fixed.

Yes, an automatic update check would be something really welcome.



Sorry for the rant but I'm sure I'm not the only artist saying these things.

Thanks,
Jason

Let's change the rant to a solution. And, truly, I didn't see any other thread like this one on the forums...so I'm still thinking that not all the bugs you're talking about can be defined as general bugs.

Would be great to find it out!

COBRASoft
04-23-2013, 05:38 PM
Lino, I admire your calm in this thread. Testing software is indeed never finished. Damn, even Windows is full of bugs and they have a much wider userbase and much more money available than 'NewTek'.
If people find bugs, they should fogbugz or mail them and don't start a thread with such a title. I do understand the frustration when something suddenly doesn't work anymore which did before. You can always install an older version in which feature x did work. But hey, I'm convinced this LightWave team is doing the best they can. The developers are still struggling with old code which has to be transformed to 'CORE' code sorts of speak.

jboudreau
04-23-2013, 06:50 PM
Thanks Lino

I agree, sorry for the frustration I guess I just had to let out some steam. I am all for helping make lightwave the best software possible.

- Here is a quick summary of just some of the bugs I found:

1. Can't use instances with particles that have fixed start frame, Instances go all wonky and are shown all the time even though I set the start frame for the particles to start on frame 50 (works as it should in 11.0.3)

2. Morph Mixer animation changes when object is saved in modeler through the hub. As soon as you go back to layout the animation of the morph gets all messed up adding extra key frames in the graph editor. (works as it should in 11.0.3) Fogbugged Case: 59576

4. Texture editor not working when you check the image maps (not showing the changes in the viewport) This has worked in many previous versions what happened.(works great in 11.0.3)

5. When installing lightwave 11.5 it creates a lightwave 11.0 directory which can conflict if 11.5 and 11 are installed on the same machine

6. When using 11.0.3 and 11.5 on the same machine the hub can get confused for example open up layout and click on the modeler button it opens up 11.5, now close 11.5 modeler and open 11.0.3 modeler. Now every time you open layout 11.5 and press modeler it opens up 11.0.3 instead of 11.5.

FIX: The only way to get 11.5 layout to open up 11.5 modeler again is to re-open 11.5 modeler. It's like the hub is remembering the last program that was open instead of it opening the right program for the version you are using. This is probably the reason why some people were getting many crashes and weird issues because sometimes when using both version you use the wrong version of the hub (for example using 11.5 with 11.0 hub) This is also the reason some people were saying that when they went to update a model it was saying the file was read only.

7. Maybe not a bug but more of a concern, Their is a licensing security bug which could allow someone to use modeler and layout on different machines at the same time.

8. Instances not updating when you turn the checkmark on and off in the instance generator panel. If you click and don't move your mouse then no update and sometime if you click and move you mouse off the check area it updates and sometimes it doesn't.

9. I have to keep constantly deleting my config files to get things to work properly again. Just wondering why does this happen?

when I have more time I will add more bugs that I have found. These are just some that I came across working on a pretty small project.

Thanks,
Jason

shrox
04-23-2013, 07:11 PM
I've been holding off on buying LW11.X because I always think a bug is my doing something wrong. When will it be safe for me?

KevinL
04-23-2013, 07:35 PM
No software is "safe". There are too many things happening in the "box". I have had good success running LW 11.5 (one of the better as far as robustness)

As an example: I use the creative cloud CS6 suite. After Effects really runs nice. So nice that I get sloppy and run a couple of days without purging cache, and occasionally restarting the program (something that has always stood me in good stead).

Every once in a while, when I have been working straight through like this, I'll get a fairly "violent" crash (AE will just shutdown. I save often and use auto-save so it doesn't ruin my groove) When I do follow the practice of paying attention, I rarely have this experience.

Combinations of Hardware, config, BIOS settings, device drivers, OS tweaks, RTS utilities, variable data formats, corrupt files or headers, multiple programs that will tweak shared dll/etc.

Then the multitude of users who do different combinations of things, in different ways, with different sets of programs (versions, etc)..... Oh and remember that OS that has it's little quirks that only surface in some highly unique, seldom seen circumstance that just happens to have occured in your usage....

I too have been frustrated when in the heat of things my experience is not perfect. Remember the complexity of what's happening everywhere in your box and be happy they work so well :)

There was a period where I was really sick of troubleshooting Lightwave (back a ways) and was ready to rip something a new one. Where lightwave is now has made me very grateful to be wavin'

Cheers to the development group for rockin' da code... :)

KevinL

Snosrap
04-23-2013, 07:44 PM
I've been holding off on buying LW11.X because I always think a bug is my doing something wrong. When will it be safe for me?It's safe now! Too many good things to not install just because of a few bug-a-boo's.

vipvip242
04-23-2013, 11:24 PM
There is a very ennoying bug ( impossible to reproduce it exactly & i can't afford to spend 3 hours to try ) i encountered with 2 of my professional projects: working a scene with a lot of instances, all was OK : previewing, rendering etc...
And when trying to reload this scene, IMPOSSIBLE: A CRASH EACH TIME ! ( very ennoying when working for a job...)

It happens on 2 different projects and apparently it happens almost randomly ( some version can be reloaded, some not... ) but the common factor of the 2 projects was the presence of instances...
Personnaly, i don't send requests anymore on frogbugs because, during the painfull LW10 experience, i sent a lot and never saw the result of my requests ( no, in fact, i saw them, but in LW11 ... ;) )
But for these bugs, as i'm beta-tester of OCTANE-RENDER plugin, i submitted them to JUANJGON, the developper, he had a serious look at them and he reported them to Newtek: he confirmed to me it was Lightwave 11.5 internal bugs...

I hope they will be corrrected quickly in a free update service-pack of LW11.5, because these kind of bugs make Lightwave very suspicious to use with professionnal projects...

I'm not talking here about 'small bugs' but very severe ones ...

I hope you understand

nickdigital
04-23-2013, 11:39 PM
Did you send your problematic scenes to NewTek?

Yes, bugs are painful to deal with and nobody has all the time in the world to debug software. But in fairness to NewTek, they can't fix bugs they don't know about. Bug hunting can be difficult because it's impossible to test every possible scenario for how something will be used.

Mr Rid
04-24-2013, 01:06 AM
About once a week of regular 11.5 use, I've encountered a random bug where F9 & F10 wont reflect a change in the scene, but the VPR does. Usually its a surface change, but also happens with lights. Saving all, and reloading the scene corrects it. But I tore my hair out a few times, disassembling scenes piece by piece trying to pin down why something was not rendering the way it should. Have not encountered in previous versions.

dballesg
04-24-2013, 02:18 AM
Thanks Lino

- Here is a quick summary of just some of the bugs I found:

6. When using 11.0.3 and 11.5 on the same machine the hub can get confused for example open up layout and click on the modeler button it opens up 11.5, now close 11.5 modeler and open 11.0.3 modeler. Now every time you open layout 11.5 and press modeler it opens up 11.0.3 instead of 11.5.

FIX: The only way to get 11.5 layout to open up 11.5 modeler again is to re-open 11.5 modeler. It's like the hub is remembering the last program that was open instead of it opening the right program for the version you are using. This is probably the reason why some people were getting many crashes and weird issues because sometimes when using both version you use the wrong version of the hub (for example using 11.5 with 11.0 hub) This is also the reason some people were saying that when they went to update a model it was saying the file was read only.

9. I have to keep constantly deleting my config files to get things to work properly again. Just wondering why does this happen?

Thanks,
Jason

Hi,

About the installer overwriting LW 11.0.3 with LW 11.5 you can change the install directory to something different to the default one. For example I neverinstall LW on the default "Program Files" directory to avoid directories with spaces on their names.

Are you using the -c switch on your shortcuts to redirect your config files???

Make a shortcut on your Desktop for Layout and Modeler, or make a copy of the ones LightWave installer does. Right click on the shortcut select Properties, and in the line were the Layout.exe appears add -c[DIR_TO_CONFIGS].
For example my Layout shortcut has :
C:\LW_11_64\bin\Layout.exe -cC:\LW_11_64\Config

And the Modeler shortcut:
C:\LW_11_64\bin\Modeler.exe -cC:\LW_11_64\Config

Note : I always use "_" instead of spaces for my installation dirs.

And about your problem with the HUB remembering and opening different LightWave versions, it's due the HUB is simply that, it "connects" Layout and Modeler allowing intercommunication. It doesn't distiguish between LightWave versions.
The only way to avoid that AFAIK is always close Layout/Modeler and the HUB when you want to run different LightWave versions.

Hope that helps,
David

stiff paper
04-24-2013, 03:10 AM
Oooh! A slightly grouchy, complainy thread!

Load From Scene is currently a broken, twisted wreck. Which isn't much fun.

Also, for many years I relied on a behavior in the graph editor when I was animating, where whenever you changed keyframes to Bezier the graph editor would set the beziers to try to hold the shape of the curve. If you wanted something to be kind-of-linear you'd change all your keyframes to linear, then to bezier, which would give you a linear shape but with beziers. Then you could tweak the beziers to get your not quite linear. This no longer works. Changing to bezier from linear just gives you a stupid, pointless, unusable curvy mess. And I don't even think this is a bug, because the change-to-bezier behavior still works going from some of the other types of keyframe. No, it looks like somebody decided that this new behavior that could never, ever actually be useful to anybody for any purpose whatsoever was somehow better. Oh, I just LOVE that it's added hours of unnecessary screwing around with curves to any long animation job.

I like the idea that lots of things are obviously being rewritten in the background. That's good. Very promising. I really don't like the idea that the way things behave might be being changed on a whim without ever actually verifying with any users that it's a good change.

That change in the bezier behavior had a bigger negative effect than I'd ever have imagined. Most of the time I animate with new keyframes set to linear and then bezier them to tweak. Completely broken now. Makes me very unhappy whenever I use the graph editor.

jboudreau
04-24-2013, 04:23 AM
Hi,

About the installer overwriting LW 11.0.3 with LW 11.5 you can change the install directory to something different to the default one. For example I neverinstall LW on the default "Program Files" directory to avoid directories with spaces on their names.

Are you using the -c switch on your shortcuts to redirect your config files???

Make a shortcut on your Desktop for Layout and Modeler, or make a copy of the ones LightWave installer does. Right click on the shortcut select Properties, and in the line were the Layout.exe appears add -c[DIR_TO_CONFIGS].
For example my Layout shortcut has :
C:\LW_11_64\bin\Layout.exe -cC:\LW_11_64\Config

And the Modeler shortcut:
C:\LW_11_64\bin\Modeler.exe -cC:\LW_11_64\Config

Note : I always use "_" instead of spaces for my installation dirs.

And about your problem with the HUB remembering and opening different LightWave versions, it's due the HUB is simply that, it "connects" Layout and Modeler allowing intercommunication. It doesn't distiguish between LightWave versions.
The only way to avoid that AFAIK is always close Layout/Modeler and the HUB when you want to run different LightWave versions.

Hope that helps,
David

Hi Thanks for the reply

The installer doesn't overwrite 11.0.3 with 11.5 what happens is when you install lightwave 11.5 and run layout and modeler it creates config files in the useranme/.Newtek/Lighwave/11.5 directory but it also creates a 11.0 directory for some reason. Even if you delete the 11.0 directory it always comes back as soon as you start modeler again. Most people don't realize this because if you have both version installed you would never know that 11.5 is creating that 11.0 directory

I tried redirecting my configs using the same method as below. I had some issues with the configs not redirecting. It turned out that I had to open up modeler and layout as an administrator which fixed the problem. Redirecting still doesn't stop it from creating that 11.0 directory as stated above.

Actually are you sure about the hub not distinguishing between different versions because if you open up layout 11.5 and double click on the hub icon located bottom right it says that 11.5 is running and if you look under the launch process it directs the right version of layout and modeler to be opened. Also if you run the hub for lightwave 11.0.3 while using lightwave 11.5 you will have lots of crashes sometimes as soon as you open up layout or modeler you get an istant crash. As soon as you make sure the hub for the version of lightwave you are using is running no more crashes.

Thanks for that tip, but what happens if you want to use modeler 11.0 and layout 11.5 at the same time due to maybe a bug that one version has and the other one doesent.

Thanks
Jason

dballesg
04-24-2013, 04:39 AM
Hi,

I see how then my tip didn't worked.

I never noticed that 11 and 11.5 directory creation because I don't have 11.0.3 installed at the same time. At some point I had 9.6, 10.0 and 11.5, but got rid of the 9.6 and 10.0 versions.

I see that is a big bug if 11.5 it's creating two directories with different names. So it will create a conflict with 11.0.03 if its in fact using it as well.

Just to confirm I just looked into C:\Users\David\.NewTek\LightWave\11.0 <-- Same extra directory created, and I never installed 11.0.3 on this machine. I installed 11.5 straight away when I updated to LW 11.

There is no license file or config files there (only empty directories); so must be created by LW 11.5 as you indicated. :eek:

I hope Lino and Ben see your more descriptive problem and they can get it fixed.

David

jboudreau
04-24-2013, 04:54 AM
Hi,

I see how then my tip didn't worked.

I never noticed that 11 and 11.5 directory creation because I don't have 11.0.3 installed at the same time. At some point I had 9.6, 10.0 and 11.5, but got rid of the 9.6 and 10.0 versions.

I see that is a big bug if 11.5 it's creating two directories with different names. So it will create a conflict with 11.0.03 if its in fact using it as well.

Just to confirm I just looked into C:\Users\David\.NewTek\LightWave\11.0 <-- Same extra directory created, and I never installed 11.0.3 on this machine. I installed 11.5 straight away when I updated to LW 11.

There is no license file or config files there (only empty directories); so must be created by LW 11.5 as you indicated. :eek:

I hope Lino and Ben see your more descriptive problem and they can get it fixed.

David

haha no worries

yeah same here when I got my new workstation I installed 11.5 and nothing else and it created the 11.0 directory this is how I came across this bug. It looks like their might be some old 11.0 code that is causing these directory to be made or maybe some of the new tools from lightwave core. It looks like it has something to do with modeler because if you delete the directory and open up layout it doesn't recreate the 11.0 directory but as soon as you open up modeler it will recreate that 11.0 folder.

I hope so too :)

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
04-24-2013, 05:21 AM
Oooh! A slightly grouchy, complainy thread!

Load From Scene is currently a broken, twisted wreck. Which isn't much fun.

Also, for many years I relied on a behavior in the graph editor when I was animating, where whenever you changed keyframes to Bezier the graph editor would set the beziers to try to hold the shape of the curve. If you wanted something to be kind-of-linear you'd change all your keyframes to linear, then to bezier, which would give you a linear shape but with beziers. Then you could tweak the beziers to get your not quite linear. This no longer works. Changing to bezier from linear just gives you a stupid, pointless, unusable curvy mess. And I don't even think this is a bug, because the change-to-bezier behavior still works going from some of the other types of keyframe. No, it looks like somebody decided that this new behavior that could never, ever actually be useful to anybody for any purpose whatsoever was somehow better. Oh, I just LOVE that it's added hours of unnecessary screwing around with curves to any long animation job.

I like the idea that lots of things are obviously being rewritten in the background. That's good. Very promising. I really don't like the idea that the way things behave might be being changed on a whim without ever actually verifying with any users that it's a good change.

That change in the bezier behavior had a bigger negative effect than I'd ever have imagined. Most of the time I animate with new keyframes set to linear and then bezier them to tweak. Completely broken now. Makes me very unhappy whenever I use the graph editor.

Hi

I totally agree especialy with things being changed without verifying with any users. Just look at the new positioning of the polygon, edge and points selection in modeler why on earth did they put it up in the top left corner. I had to change that right away because I found myself going down to the bottom of the screen where they use to be. I know you can use the spacebar but I still for some reason use my mouse

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
04-24-2013, 06:38 AM
[QUOTE=Every process can be improved, for sure. And looks like that not all the bugs you've found are reproducible (the instance problem). So I don't know how many of the bugs you've found are really bugs or something that can be related to your personal settings/configuration.



Hi Lino

The instance problem is a bug here is how you can reproduce it.

Instance Bug 001

Steps:

Open up layout and create a cube using the modeler tools
now go into the instance tab for the new cube object
Add an instance generator for the cube object
In the Instance Generator Click on add object and choose new cube object
Chose a radial array
Now click on the check mark next to the cube object to turn it off (See it doesn't turn off well atleast here it doesn't)

In Lightwave 11.0.3 it works as it should but not in 11.5. Can you Let me know if it does the same thing on your end please?


Instance Bug 002

Steps

Do exactly the same as above
Choose remove selected or remove from layout under the edit menu
Instance gets removed from the stack but not from the viewport

Even though their are no objects in the instance editor the box instances still remain in layout and can be manipulated, sized rotated stretched etc. Very strange

In Lightwave 11.0.3 it works as it should but not in 11.5. Can you Let me know if it does the same thing on your end please?


Instance Bug 003

Steps

Open layout
create a cube using the modeler tools
create a sphere using the modeler tools
open up the instance editor
add both objects to the list
click on one of the objects
choose edit remove all (Bang!! Instant Crash!!!)

If you have both objects selected it works but if you have one object selected layout crashes " A critical error has occurred create a crash report"

Again In Lightwave 11.0.3 it works as it should but not in 11.5. Can you Let me know if it does the same thing on your end please?

As you can see Instances in 11.5 are buggy


Texture Map Openg GL Bug Temperary FIX

I have a temporary fix for the texture map openGL issue I was talking about earlier

Fix: for the texture map OpenGL issue

If you cick on the check mark as we both know the texture maps don't update. But if you click on the checkmark and then any other button in that panel say for instance automatic sizing, or the pixel blending then the texture map shows up. It's like it's a refresh problem


Thanks,
Jason

stiff paper
04-24-2013, 07:17 AM
Just look at the new positioning of the polygon, edge and points selection in modeler...

Wellll... actually... I can kind of live with things like that. Awkward to adapt to it after so many years, yeah, but at least it still works just like it always did.

It's when something is completely broken and unusable that I start to get a bit... antsy...

The graph editor is simply broken. LFS is simply broken.

I can't adapt to broken.

jboudreau
04-24-2013, 07:20 AM
Wellll... actually... I can kind of live with things like that. Awkward to adapt to it after so many years, yeah, but at least it still works just like it always did.

It's when something is completely broken and unusable that I start to get a bit... antsy...

The graph editor is simply broken. LFS is simply broken.

I can't adapt to broken.

Yeah I understand your frustration. The Instance Generator is broken too from all the bugs I found above in my last post

Thanks,
Jason

bobakabob
04-24-2013, 04:14 PM
Lino, I admire your calm in this thread. Testing software is indeed never finished. Damn, even Windows is full of bugs and they have a much wider userbase and much more money available than 'NewTek'.
If people find bugs, they should fogbugz or mail them and don't start a thread with such a title. I do understand the frustration when something suddenly doesn't work anymore which did before. You can always install an older version in which feature x did work. But hey, I'm convinced this LightWave team is doing the best they can. The developers are still struggling with old code which has to be transformed to 'CORE' code sorts of speak.

Agree with CobraSoft, this is a misleading and rather unfair thread title. There are bound to be bugs as in any software but Lightwave 11.5 is in the main pretty rock solid and reliable imho with no show stoppers to speak of. As Snosrap states bugs are no reason to miss out on so many good features. I can't recall a major crash in months of modelling animating and rendering. LW still recovers even after trying out crazy levels of subdivision in Layout. A good idea to install new versions in a dedicated folder in c drive and avoid having the Hub open if you're using different versions as configs might get scrambled. My biggest gripe has been obj import / export which doesn't bring in Zbrush groups but Lino has already indicated this has been fixed.

jboudreau
04-24-2013, 04:27 PM
Agree with CobraSoft, this is a misleading and rather unfair thread title. There are bound to be bugs as in any software but Lightwave 11.5 is in the main pretty rock solid and reliable imho with no show stoppers to speak of. As Snosrap states bugs are no reason to miss out on so many good features. I can't recall a major crash in months of modelling animating and rendering. LW still recovers even after trying out crazy levels of subdivision in Layout. A good idea to install new versions in a dedicated folder in c drive and avoid having the Hub open if you're using different versions as configs might get scrambled. My biggest gripe has been obj import / export which doesn't bring in Zbrush groups but Lino has already indicated this has been fixed.

Hi

Hi I understand from my frustration with things not working or finding bug after bug while trying to get a job done that I wasn't fair with my titling of this thread and would rename it if I could, but I have found quite a few bugs that were show stoppers which caused me to have to revert back to 11.03 to get the job done because 11.5 could not handle it.

Could you please test the bugs I mentioned above and let me know if you get the same problems since it sounds to me your 11.5 is definitely less buggy than mine. Also are you using it on pc or mac. I'm on 64bit pc version. Windows 7

I have mine installed in the programfiles directory.

Thanks
Jason

Snosrap
04-24-2013, 05:50 PM
Does FogBugz allow us to search for similar reported bugs that we may be experiancing? Maybe if there were some sort of database of the known bugs we could just report ones that aren't on the list or ones with a status showing as fixed or being looked into. Seems silly to report stuff that is already been made aware to the dev team.

jboudreau
04-24-2013, 06:04 PM
Does FogBugz allow us to search for similar reported bugs that we may be experiancing? Maybe if there were some sort of database of the known bugs we could just report ones that aren't on the list or ones with a status showing as fixed or being looked into. Seems silly to report stuff that is already been made aware to the dev team.

I agree, exactly what I said. Supposedly they are looking into this and are working on something. This is what I was told by a member of the lightwave support team.

Even just a list of fog bugz case numbers that we could type into the search field on the fog bugz website would be better than what we have now.

Having something like this would be great because then the whole lightwave community could test these bugs out on their system (not just the development team) and give feedback of what they found. this would give the development team more info to go on than just one or two users reporting the bug, which in return would result in bugs getting fixed faster and having fewer bugs

Thanks
Jason

vipvip242
04-24-2013, 09:17 PM
Hi,
here is one exemple of the crashing scene: all was working ok, i saved it but impossible to RELOAD ! :/
As i said before, some little variations of this kind of scene can be reloaded, some other not: it is very strange and very unsafe when working professionnal projets !...
It happened to me on a totaly different project too...
If Newtek can have a look to this: this is a severe bug...

I can just say that this Bug was confirmed by JUANJGON, the octane-plugin developper

Thanks

Snosrap
04-24-2013, 09:33 PM
It loaded okay for me. However I don't have the Octane renderer. Probably your issue is with Octane. The Octane/LW plug-in is fairly immature, use for professional projects at your own risk. :)

vipvip242
04-24-2013, 10:07 PM
It loaded okay for me. However I don't have the Octane renderer. Probably your issue is with Octane. The Octane/LW plug-in is fairly immature, use for professional projects at your own risk. :)

Thanks for testing....i just discovered somethig: if i load the scene from the root of the 'F:" disk, it works, but loaded from a sub-dir of a local network-drive, it bugs... strange...
This bug seems to be not linked to Octane ( and as beta tester of this plugin since 4 monthes, i can say to you that this plugin is not immature and totally production ready )

This attached new packed scene bugs whatever the location

jboudreau
04-25-2013, 12:08 AM
Thanks for testing....i just discovered somethig: if i load the scene from the root of the 'F:" disk, it works, but loaded from a sub-dir of a local network-drive, it bugs... strange...
This bug seems to be not linked to Octane ( and as beta tester of this plugin since 4 monthes, i can say to you that this plugin is not immature and totally production ready )

This attached new packed scene bugs whatever the location

Hi

Both scenes work fine here. Their is over 7 million polygons in the scene. I just opened it up right off the desktop. Did you want me to turn off the instances and re-save the scene? Maybe you will be able to open it then

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
04-25-2013, 01:59 AM
Does FogBugz allow us to search for similar reported bugs that we may be experiancing? Maybe if there were some sort of database of the known bugs we could just report ones that aren't on the list or ones with a status showing as fixed or being looked into. Seems silly to report stuff that is already been made aware to the dev team.

Hi just created a post called Solution for fog bugz. Let me know what you think of the idea and if you would like to participate :)

Thanks,
Jason

vipvip242
04-25-2013, 09:58 PM
Hi

Both scenes work fine here. Their is over 7 million polygons in the scene. I just opened it up right off the desktop. Did you want me to turn off the instances and re-save the scene? Maybe you will be able to open it then

Thanks,
Jason

Hi Jason
yes with pleasure.
Very strange: apparently, nobody has this problems with these scene... on my workstation, it crashes ( and it is not a memory problem, i have 32gb RAM).
Perhaps i have to have a look for the octane plugin,
Anyway thanks for having tested this...
If somebodyelese feels to try it, it would be great
Thank you

madno
04-25-2013, 10:46 PM
Scenes loading here as well, no crash (no octane plugin installled)

vipvip242
04-25-2013, 11:51 PM
Ok thanks
i report it to the octane dev. forum

jboudreau
04-26-2013, 01:44 AM
Ok thanks
i report it to the octane dev. forum

Hi vipvip242

Something strange is definitely going on with that file. I opened it no problem yesterday and quite a few times today and now it won't open at all without getting a crash. Once I got it to open I
went into the instance tap and unchecked the instances and re-saved the scene. After that the scene opened up fine every time. As soon as I turned back on the instances and re-saved the scene
it won't stop crashing. It looks to me like it has something to do with instances because once I saved the scene after telling it no to all the prompts for the octane node materials and plugins there shouldn't of been
any trace of the octane plugin anymore. Once I can get the scene back opened again I will look into it more

Thanks,
Jason

alexos
04-26-2013, 01:55 AM
Well, I do have the Octane plug-in installed and I can't get the scene to open - instant crash upon load.

ADP.

jboudreau
04-26-2013, 02:02 AM
Well, I do have the Octane plug-in installed and I can't get the scene to open - instant crash upon load.

ADP.

Hi

Same here instant crash except I don't have the octane plugin.

I managed to get the scene open once again. I saved it and I am now comparing the two lightwave scenes in text editor. I will keep you posted

Thanks
Jason

jboudreau
04-26-2013, 02:59 AM
Hi

Same here instant crash except I don't have the octane plugin.

I managed to get the scene open once again. I saved it and I am now comparing the two lightwave scenes in text editor. I will keep you posted

Thanks
Jason

UPDATE:

Okay I managed to get the scene opened that was crashing all the time. I saved the scene which took out all of the octane plugin information. I then compared both files with a text editor for the lighwave scene that was crashing all the time and the newly saved scene. I managed to strip all the octane plugin information using the newly saved file as a comparison. I saved the file it opened with no prompt for the octane plugin or node materials and then it crashed.

Once I knew that the crash wasen't due to the octane plugin I then opened up the .lws scene file in a text editor and turned off the instances by editing some of the code. I then saved it and it opened up instantly with no crash at all. I saved that file and then opened it up again (again no problems) I then turned on the instances for the mount_cubes01a object and saved the scene. When I went to open up the scene again instant crash.

The problem is with having instances checked on for the mount_cubes01a object. The 010a6_sol_plan object is fine you can keep that one checked on.

Here are the files


15a1_TB-Cubes - Instance On.lws (this one crashes all the time on my end)

113916

15a1_TB-Cubes_Instance Off.lws (this one works everytime no issues)

113917

Let me know if you get a crash with the Instance off version, or anyone for that matter


I also took your exact original file and found where the problem was in the code

Original lightwave scene Fixed

951 ScaleMotionOnly 1
952 PathStartFrame 1
953 PathEndFrame 1
954 DisplayScale 1
955 InstanceSeed 28366
956 MotionBlurTimeSlices 10
957 }
958 EndPlugin
959 PluginEnabled 0 (Add this line and it will fix your problem) This disables the Instancer on object mount_cubes01a
960 NodeDisplacement 0
961 { Nodal_Block
962 { Root
963 Location 0 0
964 Zoom 1
965 Disabled 1


Original lighgwave scene

ScaleMotionOnly 1
952 PathStartFrame 1
953 PathEndFrame 1
954 DisplayScale 1
955 InstanceSeed 28366
956 MotionBlurTimeSlices 10
957 }
958 EndPlugin
959 NodeDisplacement 0
960 { Nodal_Block
961 { Root
962 Location 0 0
963 Zoom 1
964 Disabled 1
965 }
966 Version 1
967 { Nodes

Here is the original scene that you provided with the fixed line of code. Give it a try and let me know how it works out for you

113921

Thanks
Jason

vipvip242
04-26-2013, 06:58 AM
Thank you a lot: i'll study your answer this weekend and i'll tell you...
The big question i'm asking to myself: how to avoid this kind of bugd to prevent this in future jobs: because the bug happens ONLY after saving and then reloading a scene...
Anyway your help is great !!
Vincent

jboudreau
04-26-2013, 07:05 AM
Thank you a lot: i'll study your answer this weekend and i'll tell you...
The big question i'm asking to myself: how to avoid this kind of bugd to prevent this in future jobs: because the bug happens ONLY after saving and then reloading a scene...
Anyway your help is great !!
Vincent

Hi no problem glad I could help. Hopefully it will work for you.

For the particular problem you were having I would say as soon as you go to save your scene just make sure you turn off the check mark in the instancer tab for all objects that have instances attached. This will turn off the instances but doesn't get rid of them or their settings, You will be able to turn them back on once you load your scene again. If not all then at least instances that have a huge polygon count.

Thanks,
Jason

lardbros
04-26-2013, 08:08 AM
Has anyone else encountered these bugs?

1. Rendering using LWSN.exe and using Compositing Buffer export, my diffuse pass doesn't appear to have my Colour Space applied. It's fine however if I do it locally on my workstation. ONLY rendered on my nodes does this occur.

2. Instances of my clipmapped trees look great in VPR but when I do an F9 they come out all dark and crap. (I'd tweaked them to look nice in VPR). It turned out I had to turn off self-shadow on the tree instance to get the same render as the F9. (This had me stumped for aaaages).

3. Also came across the original poster bug with layered materials, turning the tick on or off doesn't update in VPR. Had to use the 'Invert' button to force an update instead!

I encountered these just working on my latest project, and there are a few others I can't even remember.

Not saying 11.5 is more or less buggy than any other version of any other 3d software... but it gets massively frustrating! These were found during one job!