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nickdigital
04-15-2013, 01:55 PM
Are there any tutorials for TFD? Between the sparse documentation, random crashes and very inactive jawset forum it's hard to make any progress.

One specific thing I'm looking for is to have my smoke move similar to particles with a positive explosion value. Right now they climb upwards with a realistic motion which I don't want. Adjusting some of the motion/velocity settings changes the behavior but not towards what I want. The odd crash here and there make it hard to know what to touch and what to avoid.

Thanks in advance.

stiff paper
04-15-2013, 02:52 PM
I looked around for tuts when TFD first appeared, and there were definitely some tutorials out there for the C4D version. I never bought a license, so I haven't looked for any tuts since, but I'd suggest looking for TFD for C4D tutorials (if you already haven't tried that...)

http://www.black-and-white-to-color.com/ipbsfx/files/category/2-cinema-4d/

nickdigital
04-15-2013, 02:54 PM
Thanks, I've seen a lot for C4D. I assume the controls are the same, so I'll give those a go.

prometheus
04-15-2013, 03:06 PM
Ahh..as I mentioned in private message..
No free lightwave showcases really...Kat might put some commercial ones up...
http://forum.jawset.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=782

Mercury3d has some nice stuff to look at..and a free turbulence nuke scene..
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=turbulencefd+lightwave

Michael

nickdigital
04-15-2013, 03:20 PM
It looks like Buoyancy controls the upward motion of the voxels. Still trying to figure out how make an outward motion.

lardbros
04-15-2013, 03:28 PM
You could add TFD to an actual particle emitter... and use the explosion value on the particles to drive your smoke.

Add your emitter, and using TFD make it an emitter. Now, within the TFD emitter settings is where some of the magic happens. Inside the settings, make sure you have density set to something more than 0. This is what catches most people out.

Now also make sure, within the container, that the buoyancy is set to low or nearly nothing, and I'm sure there are some gravity settings somewhere too. You also have to make sure Density is active on the TFD container Simulation settings.


Now, I'm pretty sure you're probably already tried all this out, but just in case you haven't, there you go! :D

I seem to get a lot of crashes when I'm Upscaling a sim... luckily TFD saves a backup of the file just before it does the upscale, so you should find that saved in the cache folder.


If you need any more instructions, I could quickly set an emitter scene up for you and see how it goes?!

nickdigital
04-15-2013, 03:35 PM
I'm actually doing a lot of what you're suggesting lardbros...I just kinda stumbled upon the particle thing as I was also futzing around with hypervoxels at the same time.

The crashyness certainly doesn't help.

Sure, if you wanna put something together that'd be great.

nickdigital
04-15-2013, 07:28 PM
Not using my GPU caused a lot of crashes I think. Ever since I switched it from my processor to the GPU I haven't had a crash. Working with TFD is a please experience now.

prometheus
04-15-2013, 07:52 PM
It looks like Buoyancy controls the upward motion of the voxels. Still trying to figure out how make an outward motion.

particle emitter and objects are both forces and painters of the fluid..
If you start with a basic sphere..1m, and for starter you have to enable the force channels in the fluids emitter tab, they are off by default which I donīt understand, think jascha should
make that to 1 by default, both density and temperature is set to 0. therefore no emission will occour unless knowing this.

Also the density isnīt activated in the fluid simulation tab, so it doesnīt matter if you would have set a value of 1 in the fluid emitter forces..it still wont show up.

I think it would be better if jasha had these on by default in order to get the fastest running setup that yields a result, you should know these parameters of course, but better have it on
than the other way around..itīs equally amount of work to either set them on or turn them off.

Regarding how to make outward motion...if you use the normal force values in the fluid emitter tab...set them to 10 or something, this will push the fluids out from the normals of what ever object you have, so
if you have a sphere or dome, it will be pushed out that way..sort of like an explosion, you could also set up simple quad polys in the direction you want ...and it will push out from that.

As mentioned you can use standard lightwave particles to push out fluids...it can be enough to just let them live for very short span to push the fluid..then the fluid will continue to live anyway.

you can also add other geometry objects and use as external forces...you need to make sure they donīt emitt fluid themself though.

So you can rig a couple of objects...letīs say one with a wind force in one direction, and another with a wind force in the other direction, but in order to get wind working
you need to set the wind speed too...it is by default 0.

Texture noise also gives a sort of extra noise expansion of the fluid..in the fluid emitter tab.

Michael

nickdigital
04-15-2013, 08:14 PM
Great info. I wondered if it was possible to add wind controls.

prometheus
04-15-2013, 08:19 PM
one other thing that helps expand explosion, that is activating fuel in the simulation tab, set expansion to 2-3 perhaps, but you also need to set a fuel value..like 1 or so in the fluid emitter tab.

by using the turbulence intensity ..you can get nice noise turbulence...but this is very related to the scale of your fluid, voxel size etc..you need to carefully experiment with those..sometimes if you set
very big scale ..you can get very big swirly stuff...the intensity tells how strong it should be.
I generally start with that..and you can also set a litle vorticity...before even going in to subgrid noise..or higher resolutions.

Michael

prometheus
04-15-2013, 08:22 PM
Great info. I wondered if it was possible to add wind controls.

wind controls is only the turbulenceFD own wind forces, not lightwaveīs dynamic winds..so you donīt get the wrong Idea.
You could of course use lightwaves dynamic winds to drive particles to swirl rotationaly, and then make the lightwave emitter a fluid emitter, so that way you could
get something tornado like, you need to carefully set right size of voxels, right radius..and enhance the velocity probably ..you will probably get blobby results at first until getting a hang of it.

Michael

ShadowMystic
04-15-2013, 09:16 PM
I'm actually doing a lot of what you're suggesting lardbros...I just kinda stumbled upon the particle thing as I was also futzing around with hypervoxels at the same time.

The crashyness certainly doesn't help.

Sure, if you wanna put something together that'd be great.

I was planning on doing a full in-depth commercial tutorial set for TFD, but I don't know if people would want them.

nickdigital
04-15-2013, 09:21 PM
I was planning on doing a full in-depth commercial tutorial set for TFD, but I don't know if people would want them.

I would say yes, especially since the documentation is so thin.

prometheus
04-15-2013, 09:23 PM
I was planning on doing a full in-depth commercial tutorial set for TFD, but I don't know if people would want them.

Might need to know how many users there are out there that owns a commercial license, another thing I think might be important if you would want to make a commercial video, that is
to properly showcase different final scene results in mov format along with stills, otherwise it might be a waste of time, but if you showcase that you would get instant feedback
from people telling.thatīs what I want to acheive.
Also..sreenshot of sections dealing with turbulence functions etc helps sell it..I think.

Not much but hereīs a little simple info..basicīs:) read info.
https://vimeo.com/35832026

Michael

ShadowMystic
04-15-2013, 09:33 PM
I'm actually doing a lot of what you're suggesting lardbros...I just kinda stumbled upon the particle thing as I was also futzing around with hypervoxels at the same time.

The crashyness certainly doesn't help.

Sure, if you wanna put something together that'd be great.


I'll shift into gear then. I'll make of the scripts and start recording after the group purchase happens.

ShadowMystic
04-15-2013, 09:55 PM
Might need to know how many users there are out there that owns a commercial license, another thing I think might be important if you would want to make a commercial video, that is
to properly showcase different final scene results in mov format along with stills, otherwise it might be a waste of time, but if you showcase that you would get instant feedback
from people telling.thatīs what I want to acheive.
Also..sreenshot of sections dealing with turbulence functions etc helps sell it..I think.

Not much but hereīs a little simple info..basicīs:) read info.
https://vimeo.com/35832026

Michael

I'm planning side-by-side comparison simulations, sample scenes, and PDF guide with images.

It is potentially a huge project.

phillydee
04-15-2013, 10:18 PM
Hey, just me or does TFD leave an instance of the Container and Emitter plugins in memory? I clear a scene, and I get two instances of Container when I set up a new TFD scene if I don't quit LW... same with adding an Emitter.

Also, how does one use the "Calculate while rendering"? I still have to create caches with that toggled on... and until I go SSD I'm worried that'll kill my platters :oye:

nickdigital
04-15-2013, 10:37 PM
Hey, just me or does TFD leave an instance of the Container and Emitter plugins in memory? I clear a scene, and I get two instances of Container when I set up a new TFD scene if I don't quit LW... same with adding an Emitter.


Yeah, I've seen this too.

prometheus
04-15-2013, 11:10 PM
I'm planning side-by-side comparison simulations, sample scenes, and PDF guide with images.

It is potentially a huge project.

yes indeed..I had that in my thought too..to make something basic anyway, side by side sims, sample scenes and maybe pdf guide, but not commercial..more basic free info.
Note...I will most certainly not have any time to do that though...

For any interest in commercial tutorials, at least for my part, I would like to see someone who is experienced or have used it in some production, like maybe on iron sky, (must see it first..shame on me)
or like the intro for the game on the jawset site.

And I would want more than just fluids really, it needs to be within certain environments where a project is disected in itīs partīs, wether it may be a train colliding in to a building, or
an aeroplane on fire, or missile trails etc.
So that would be a very complex project to take in to account if it should gain my interest.
But thatīs me...otherīs might not need that.


Yeah, I've seen this too.

I havenīt experienced that...but Im still on the version before the latest demo release.

prometheus
04-16-2013, 02:29 AM
Heres a couple of fumeFX training for max, you can learn some from that, basic principles often transcends over to other fluid engines such as TurbulenceFD.
There will of course be a lot in there that are different too, but it will help anyway..once you get the hang of the general settings in turbulenceFD.

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/explosive_training/

I would really love a previewer for turbulence...VPR isnīt made for dealing with this really, neither viper..there was a hack many versions ago which let you preview
turbulence with smoke illumination, but that doesnīt work anymore.
And is fumeFX previewer fast or what..almost realtime.

we do have a pretty nice openGl shading option of either fireshader or smoke, but not at the same time, and smoke isnīt displayed accurate...so openGl
with both smoke and fire I would like, or a special dedicated previewer for turbulence..off topic here, but you know what Im saying.)

Michael

MannaTheBerserk
04-16-2013, 02:53 AM
Hey guys,

You should also have a look at Maya Fluids tutorials.
There are so many likenesses with TurbulenceFD words: buoyancy, pressure, container, voxels and many others.
When I started to read this thread I thought:"Well, in the end it doesn't look it will be too difficoult after all.

I think it's worth giving Maya Fluids tutorials a go.

Hope this helps a bit.

M.

prometheus
04-16-2013, 04:31 AM
Absolutly.. maya tutes may help, except you have to exclude scripting for advanced
turbulence forces.

Heck..it might even help checking houdinis intro to pyroFX, you can
even follow along by learning houdini pyroFX since the apprentice is free
and then you can compare the two fluid engines and come back and tell me:)

One thing about the documentation of turbulence, I just checked it
a little deeper, and apart from being a little dull without images
it probably hides some documentation by not having some topics
in the bigger menu categories...the container sim, simulation where
you have info on velocity and vortices for example.

on this page you have these topics...
http://help.jawset.com/en/lw/container_parameters
And at the end of that page you have the small labels
for the simulation..
http://help.jawset.com/en/lw/container_parameters/simulation

I think the docīs need restructuring, Might even extract that
out and compile myself for myself in pdf doc if I have the time.
That wont protect me against eventual updates though.

Michael

Bax33
04-16-2013, 10:14 AM
Great info here as always. nickdigital, you said you changed your settings from cpu to GCU. Mind sharing how you did that? I've seen a dropdown in the Fluid Container properties under Up-Res, but it only displays my CPU as an option. Thanks

phillydee
04-16-2013, 10:36 AM
Great info here as always. nickdigital, you said you changed your settings from cpu to GCU. Mind sharing how you did that? I've seen a dropdown in the Fluid Container properties under Up-Res, but it only displays my CPU as an option. Thanks

I just select my graphics card here, in the Container settings window:

113615

(edited.... wow that img. came out huge...)

Bax33
04-16-2013, 10:51 AM
I just select my graphics card here, in the Container settings window:

That is what I thought, but my graphics card doesn't appear as an option. Its not an Nvidia card, its ATI Radeon HD 5800. I wonder if I have to change a setting on the card to get it to be recognized.

phillydee
04-16-2013, 10:57 AM
That is what I thought, but my graphics card doesn't appear as an option. Its not an Nvidia card, its ATI Radeon HD 5800. I wonder if I have to change a setting on the card to get it to be recognized.

I'm afraid you're a bit out of luck. TFD uses the CUDA instruction set for GPU calculations, meaning it will only work on nVidia cards. I'm not sure but you may be able to add a 2nd nVidia based card solely for the purpose of GPU acceleration... never tried that though (using ATi/nV together on the same MB)

Bax33
04-16-2013, 11:07 AM
I'm afraid you're a bit out of luck. TFD uses the CUDA instruction set for GPU calculations, meaning it will only work on nVidia cards. I'm not sure but you may be able to add a 2nd nVidia based card solely for the purpose of GPU acceleration... never tried that though (using ATi/nV together on the same MB)

I asked that question to Jawset when I purchased TFD very recently and this was their response. I guess it depends how you interpret this response. If what you say is correct (which I believe it to be) then their statement of "TFD works with any GPU" is a little misleading. It works with it but doesn't really use it, which is what their second statement leads to. Oh, well. My cpu is doing a good job for now. I don't know if I can afford an Nvidia card, they're kind a pricey. Thanks for your feedback though.

> TFD works with any GPU.
> It can use Nvidia cards to accelerate the simulation but that's optional.

phillydee
04-16-2013, 11:14 AM
> TFD works with any GPU.
> It can use Nvidia cards to accelerate the simulation but that's optional.

He could have meant that any GPU will be able to display the TFD preview voxels...? If TFD in future releases added OpenCL besides CUDA, you'd be able to use your ATi card to calculate sims. I wouldn't hold my breath on that though.

OlaHaldor
04-16-2013, 12:57 PM
Bax33, that means you're calculating on the CPU only then. A scene calculated on the GPU will be dozens of times faster than the CPU. Then upscaling will take place on the CPU only, and is surprisingly fast.

Bax33
04-16-2013, 02:05 PM
Bax33, that means you're calculating on the CPU only then. A scene calculated on the GPU will be dozens of times faster than the CPU. Then upscaling will take place on the CPU only, and is surprisingly fast.

:thumbsup:I understand, but an NVidia card will have to go on my ever growing list of things I'd like to have. :D Thanks

lardbros
04-16-2013, 03:53 PM
FumeFX Tutorials definitely help... we use FumeFX at work a fair amount, and these were awesome, the best I could find! The guy is a genius, and also unbelievably generous and friendly! :D http://www.allanmckay.com/allanmckay/

lardbros
04-16-2013, 03:56 PM
113631

Oh, and NickDigital... here's what I came up with just now! Don't have a clue if it's the sort of thing you were after, but of course could be tweaked forever :D

Once you get to grips with the interface and the settings, it all makes complete sense... and seems much more straight forward than FumeFX. Only thing I struggle with slightly is getting realistic fire shaders using it, but need to investigate this further, I've only done viewport tests so far.

nickdigital
04-16-2013, 03:58 PM
Thanks, I'll look over this. I've been slowly making progress...just have to get my head wrapped around the settings to get TFD to do exactly what I want.

It'd be nice if the container and emitter panels were in one...this way I'm not bouncing back and forth between two panels.

lardbros
04-16-2013, 04:01 PM
Oh, and just noticed... the smoke won't render in my scene, I forgot to turn rendering smoke on with density...


Actually... will just edit the original post... hang on.... :D

nickdigital
04-16-2013, 06:17 PM
Oh, and just noticed... the smoke won't render in my scene, I forgot to turn rendering smoke on with density...


Actually... will just edit the original post... hang on.... :D

I'm getting an unsupported TFD version error.

prometheus
04-16-2013, 08:39 PM
I asked that question to Jawset when I purchased TFD very recently and this was their response. I guess it depends how you interpret this response. If what you say is correct (which I believe it to be) then their statement of "TFD works with any GPU" is a little misleading. It works with it but doesn't really use it, which is what their second statement leads to. Oh, well. My cpu is doing a good job for now. I don't know if I can afford an Nvidia card, they're kind a pricey. Thanks for your feedback though.

> TFD works with any GPU.
> It can use Nvidia cards to accelerate the simulation but that's optional.

I researched graphics cards long ago with the notion of making best use of fluids, ergo Nvidia was the choice and Ati cards arenīt what you should by for 3d works really, unless just gaming.
"Banging my chest like a big king kong ape:)"

the statement jascha gave you is correct, but also misleading, yes TFD works with any GPU, but it canīt use it to accelerate the simulation, that is take use of it, so thatīs why you donīt
have the GPU to select from in the list, very strange you got that answer really.

Regarding smoke rendering, I donīt understand why jashca donīt have these settings on by default, the density;temp values at 1, instead at 0, and also activate the density in the
fluid simulation tab, I think they were on by default in earlier versions.

Fire and smoke ...basic plume is quite easy to set up, however..you need to tweak mapping of the fire, and smoke.

Michael

prometheus
04-16-2013, 08:50 PM
Thanks, I'll look over this. I've been slowly making progress...just have to get my head wrapped around the settings to get TFD to do exactly what I want.

It'd be nice if the container and emitter panels were in one...this way I'm not bouncing back and forth between two panels.

I think I would like that too.

Julez4001
04-16-2013, 11:18 PM
Is the owner of TFD on the Newtek Forums?
Someone might want to throw a link to this conversation his way.

prometheus
04-16-2013, 11:31 PM
Is the owner of TFD on the Newtek Forums?
Someone might want to throw a link to this conversation his way.

I think he is lurking here from time to time, but itīs better he works on the actual turbulenceFD:)

Of course it might be of importance for him to get feedback etc, so feel free to mail him.

Feedback and suggestions might be best to send to him, but that doesnīt include the appearance of how many is asking for certain improvements etc....for that it might
be good if he reads the topics here.

Michael

lardbros
04-17-2013, 12:53 AM
Oh... Weird! Have you got the latest version of the demo from his website? Or have you bought a copy?
I'm just using the demo from his website currently

nickdigital
04-17-2013, 07:19 AM
I'm using a licensed copy.

nickdigital
04-17-2013, 07:25 AM
Is there a proper system to submit bugs and feature requests or is I just emailing Jascha?

prometheus
04-17-2013, 09:49 AM
Is there a proper system to submit bugs and feature requests or is I just emailing Jascha?

http://www.jawset.com/contact/

TECHNICAL SUPPORT

For bug-reports, installation issues and other technical questions please contact [email protected]
Support is provided via email only.

Im sure you can send request there too, or visit the turbulence forums...

http://forum.jawset.com/viewforum.php?f=5

lardbros
04-17-2013, 02:43 PM
I'm using a licensed copy.

How frustrating... I'd have thought a licensed copy would be able to open my demo scene. What build is it you are using?

nickdigital
04-17-2013, 02:49 PM
The latest one in my account page (don't know the build number offhand).