View Full Version : Skelevision in messiah 6

04-12-2013, 03:31 PM
This is a great feature, the ability to adjust bones, weights in Setup but watch how the it affects the Animation, side-by-side. Easier to watch the vid than explain. :)


04-13-2013, 10:53 AM
Yes it is!

04-13-2013, 11:51 AM
I like the new proxy system.

04-13-2013, 01:37 PM
yeah, the improvements are definitely worth the $65 upgrade price I paid.

04-14-2013, 11:19 AM
Why doesn't NewTek buy Messiah?

The animation system is just awesome. I remember way back when when it was just a plugin for LW, and bought it.

Messiah would surely be the savior of LW's character animation system. Tee hee. Sorry. Had to be said.

Hopefully NewTek will address the speed / lag issues of character animation in the next version. With the demonstration of the new Kinect capability, I'm itching to get back into character animation, but have avoided learning another package to do it.

Please please please please please.

Yes it is!

04-14-2013, 12:15 PM
Sorry if this is a silly question but Messiah animation gets in LW as a Deformer right? so any interaction with bones is not possible or camera match with other animated objects or even VPR checks to see if things are in place is off the table right? If so feels like it would have the limitations similar to Modeler < > Layout.


04-14-2013, 12:33 PM
One of the plug-ins to get messiah animation into LightWave is a displacement plug-in which displaces points in LightWave corresponding to bone deformation in messiah. There is also a mover plugin that would move whole objects without deforming them so you can bring lights/camera information from messiah into LightWave.

04-14-2013, 07:48 PM
This is just so brilliant that, in retrospect, it seems almost obvious!

What could possibly be more intuitive for dealing with those problems that fall in the gap between setup and animation modes than being able to see (and adjust) the object in setup mode in some viewports and seeing it in animation mode in others?

04-19-2013, 01:32 PM
That's true. It is the best way to work. Messiah and LightWave are the only ones I know where you can't work that way. And now that would be only LightWave. However, in LightWave you can use bones only and no maps in Layout, which is how I like to do it in LightWave because it gives me a similar interaction with the use of bone settings and hold bones.

04-19-2013, 02:04 PM
This is a great feature, the ability to adjust bones, weights in Setup but watch how the it affects the Animation, side-by-side. Easier to watch the vid than explain. :)


And we have TOTALLY had this for years in Modeler if you use VertexPaint Loader.. Does this exactly. Wish VertexPaint could be adjusted to read Zbones and Joints.

You know, if VertexPaint got a little love there is no reason why it could not just read the animation of the item selected in Layout. Since VertexPaint already works in Layout.


04-20-2013, 12:57 AM
I thought yo could load bones from that.

Vertex Loader
in order to edit weight map for bones that were created from
scratch in Layout, or bones that were converted from skelegons.
First, choose
Construct > Utility: Additional > Vertex Loader
and select a scene
file that has object(s) with bones. After you select a scene file, the dialog box shown
below appears. There you select an object that you want to edit and click

If you can get it working, great. Would be interesting to give it a try again.

That plugin never really worked for me. I do remember some serious bugs, I mean, show stopping bugs. Can not remember now. It was so long ago. I think the issue is, like IKB, since it was developed by someone else it never got support over the years so I think people just stopped using it which I think is why you don't hear much about it.

But it does prove that something is possible that could be developed within Modeler.

04-20-2013, 04:41 AM
I haven't used in Messiah in quite some time but I believe the software offers multiple options for working with Lightwave: 1) Displacement, meaning .mdd, which gives you the exact same deformation you get in Messiah. This is akin to working between Maya and LightWave or most other 3D applications; 2) bones data, using the original Messiah to LightWave plug-in. This essentially moves the motion data between the Messiah and LightWave in a 'hub-like' manner; 3) object transformations, which moves objects around, like cameras, lights, props, etc. This is like using FBX to shuttle motion data between programs but I think Messiah can do this 'hub-like' with LightWave.

I don't think messiah uses weight maps does it? Unless something changed in recent versions, I think it only uses holder bones and range limits like LightWave does if you choose not to use weight maps.

I should check out the latest Messiah but I'm been hesitant. I've kept upgrading my license since version 2 but I haven't had a strong enough desire to dedicate myself to learning one more animation program yet. Head too full between learning LightWave, iPi Mocap Studio, Motion Builder, Maya, and R+H's proprietary animation software (which I guess I don't need to know anymore.) Oh,yeah, and we have Modo here too but I haven't even looked at the animation tools in that one yet.

Auuugh---BOOM! :)


04-20-2013, 01:24 PM
Yeah, information overload.

Messiah has weight painting more like weight paining and it will accept weights from other apps, if I remember correctly. I did not have much luck with either so I abandoned that all together as a workflow. And I have not touched it in over a year so I don't remember much detail.

04-20-2013, 02:02 PM
Ah, okay thanks. Admittedly, my knowledge of Messiah may be a bit dated. :)


04-20-2013, 03:25 PM
Messiah does not support weight maps natively but there is a plugin for importing weight maps saved to ascii files and a companion plugin for lightwave modeler that exports weight maps to said format for use in messiah. Works great!


There is technically a tool for weight map painting in Messiah but I would recommend avoiding it, it can bork a scene if used incorrectly and honestly isn't the best workflow for Messiah. I would recommend using the various metaeffector related weighting tools and methods when possible. For situations where you absolutely need vertex level control the plugin above is your best option but will require setting up weights in a third party tool.

04-20-2013, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the clarification. And yeah using the weight painting in Messiah, I had the same experience - avoid it.

Proper weight painting in Messiah would be a good thing.

04-22-2013, 07:48 AM
While metaeffector is the preferred way of weighting bones and other effects, remember Messiah's bone system is so intuitive YO DO NOT NEED to weight your object to get proper deformations. Its always been pretty awesome for that!

04-22-2013, 08:37 AM
To answer a few questions. Meta Effectors are messiahs best answer to per-vertex control over weight mapping. Skelevision makes them alot easier to use and understand. As far as sending animation over to lightwave. That can be done with the deformer plugin which I would use for previewing your scenes if you feel more comfortable with layout for some reason. Then after you are confident with your setup and animation through your camera work you can always send your MDD over to lightwave. We can now import MDD with the nice new/fast MDD "loader" in lightwave 11.5. Fast MDD from Greg speeds up the process even more.