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MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 09:48 AM
Hi guys,

Here is the first of a long ( hopefully not )series of questions that I would like you to answer if you can :)

When I have to split polygons, in order for them to have more geometry to work with, I normally use "Split Polygon Tool (http://youtu.be/5d0viMxjD_E?t=1m12s)"

Is there something similar, or a different workflow which I can use to achieve the same result?

Thank you very much in advance! :D

Mauro

MarcusM
04-08-2013, 10:01 AM
This is "Add edge" tool in Modeler. Best thing to do shortcut for this tool and i recommand plugin:
Move point on edge - http://www.lwplugindb.com/plugin/pointmoveonedge/

Surrealist.
04-08-2013, 10:05 AM
I'd been beaten to the punch but here is additional info:

Look under the detail tab - and in the manual - for the tool. "Add Edges".

Click on a blue circle to connect edges. Drag one to a point etc. I believe it also works with snapping and numeric input. Good idea to select polygons first if it is a large object because it puts blue circles all over the object that can be distracting and even slow.

A couple of details.

If you right click to commit an edit it keeps the tool open. This is true with all of these modeler tools. So you can make edges and then make more off of those.

Make sure and open the numeric panel for snapping options there as well.

djwaterman
04-08-2013, 10:07 AM
Under the DETAIL tab/EDGES/MORE/ADD EDGES (try it, you might find it quite annoying). The New equivalent in 11.5 is found under the MULTIPLY tab/Subdivision/SLICE, an improvement but still not as nice as Maya's Split Polygon Tool which you will no doubt miss.

The main limitation with both these tools is you can cut across a poly from point to point or edge to edge, but you cant just have a cut that goes somewhere in the middle of a polygon face and changes direction or what ever like in Maya, or cutting through multiple edges like Maya.

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 10:35 AM
This is "Add edge" tool in Modeler. Best thing to do shortcut for this tool and i recommand plugin:
Move point on edge - http://www.lwplugindb.com/plugin/pointmoveonedge/

Awesome!

Thank you for the tip! :)

- - - Updated - - -


I'd been beaten to the punch but here is additional info:

Look under the detail tab - and in the manual - for the tool. "Add Edges".

Click on a blue circle to connect edges. Drag one to a point etc. I believe it also works with snapping and numeric input. Good idea to select polygons first if it is a large object because it puts blue circles all over the object that can be distracting and even slow.

A couple of details.

If you right click to commit an edit it keeps the tool open. This is true with all of these modeler tools. So you can make edges and then make more off of those.

Make sure and open the numeric panel for snapping options there as well.


Thank you, very useful advices!

Fortunately also in Maya the SplitPoly Tool has the exact same behavior: right click to finish the split and keep on splitting with the tool still open. :)

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 10:37 AM
Under the DETAIL tab/EDGES/MORE/ADD EDGES (try it, you might find it quite annoying). The New equivalent in 11.5 is found under the MULTIPLY tab/Subdivision/SLICE, an improvement but still not as nice as Maya's Split Polygon Tool which you will no doubt miss.

The main limitation with both these tools is you can cut across a poly from point to point or edge to edge, but you cant just have a cut that goes somewhere in the middle of a polygon face and changes direction or what ever like in Maya, or cutting through multiple edges like Maya.

Alright! Got it.

This means that I will have to plan ahead a little bit more than I used to do in Maya. No problems as long as I know it ;)

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 10:41 AM
Now, here is another one:

What if I wanted to move a vertex on top of another by using some sort of snap function?
For example: in Maya you select a vertex, select the translate tool, hold the "V" button on the keyboard ( which is the temporary Snap To Vertex ) and than middle mouse drag from the vertex to the point you want to snap to.

I need this because after I split the polygons as I want them to be, I may need to move some vertices and merge them in place, if you know what I mean.

Again, thank you very much for your invaluable help! :)

Mauro

nickdigital
04-08-2013, 10:42 AM
I think that tool is called Snap Drag.

Lewis
04-08-2013, 10:57 AM
Shift+G = Snap Drag Tool tool as nickdigital suggested.

Now sure why you want point on top of point but be warend that if you do them that way with snap drag there is still going to be TWO points (which occupy exact same space) and if you just want to have ONE point then use WELD tool (or weld average to get it in middle) instead :).

jrandom
04-08-2013, 11:01 AM
The main limitation with both these tools is you can cut across a poly from point to point or edge to edge, but you cant just have a cut that goes somewhere in the middle of a polygon face and changes direction or what ever like in Maya, or cutting through multiple edges like Maya.

The new 11.5 slice tool can indeed cut into the interior of polygons. It even has a "center of polygon" snap mode.

djwaterman
04-08-2013, 11:48 AM
The new 11.5 slice tool can indeed cut into the interior of polygons. It even has a "center of polygon" snap mode.

Can you show me, I can't get it to do any of that.

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 11:48 AM
The new 11.5 slice tool can indeed cut into the interior of polygons. It even has a "center of polygon" snap mode.

I have found the Snap Drag tool, it's exactly what I needed! thank you all for the information.

The slice tool is awesome, it really is, and I found quite a good surprise: it behaves like the split poly tool in Maya, that is when you start splitting you can stop it immediately to gain one extra vertex on the edge you started from :D
Cool!
This re-learning is getting much much faster than I expected.

Also I am trying to download that plugin, PointMoveOnEdge, but had no luck at all: I cannot find a download link :-\

nickdigital
04-08-2013, 11:51 AM
Also I am trying to download that plugin, PointMoveOnEdge, but had no luck at all: I cannot find a download link :-\

It's 32 bit only I think. There isn't much performance gain with 64 bit Modeler so it's best to keep 32 bit around.
http://lwplugdev.seesaa.net/article/1803892.html

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 11:51 AM
Shift+G = Snap Drag Tool tool as nickdigital suggested.

Now sure why you want point on top of point but be warend that if you do them that way with snap drag there is still going to be TWO points (which occupy exact same space) and if you just want to have ONE point then use WELD tool (or weld average to get it in middle) instead :).

Yes, I know this.
In fact after placing one vertex on top of the other I select them both and press "m" to merge them :)

Unless there is a quicker way to do the two things ( move + snap + merge, like the merge vertex tool in Maya )simultaneously of course.


Cheers

M.

UnCommonGrafx
04-08-2013, 11:57 AM
Pick the points, ctrl-w to weld them {First entry was wrong: press m for merge.} Done.

Note:
Last point picked is the go to place for all points selected.

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 11:59 AM
It's 32 bit only I think. There isn't much performance gain with 64 bit Modeler so it's best to keep 32 bit around.
http://lwplugdev.seesaa.net/article/1803892.html

Thanks Nick,

much appreciated! ;)

- - - Updated - - -


Pick the points, press m for merge. Done.

Note:
Last point picked is the go to place for all points selected.

This has been the very first thing I gave a try to: it didn't work at all.

Is there some sort of "tolerance" I should be aware of?

erikals
04-08-2013, 12:00 PM
cost $50, but it's worth it, easysplit >

http://www2.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/EasySplit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ler0-7h7Aak

jrandom
04-08-2013, 12:07 PM
Can you show me, I can't get it to do any of that.

It's one of those orange viewport toggle buttons that appear when the tool is activated.

Cageman
04-08-2013, 12:12 PM
This has been the very first thing I gave a try to: it didn't work at all.

Is there some sort of "tolerance" I should be aware of?

You should use the Weld tool instead. The last point selected is the "goto" point.

Snosrap
04-08-2013, 12:19 PM
It's one of those orange viewport toggle buttons that appear when the tool is activated.

I don't get any options or viewport toggle buttons with the new slice tool.

erikals
04-08-2013, 12:21 PM
yep, a little glitch from UnCommonGrafx i guess, probably meant the weld tool.

jrandom
04-08-2013, 12:34 PM
I don't get any options or viewport toggle buttons with the new slice tool.

Well that's not good. Maybe I've got the name of the tool wrong? It's one of the new 11.5 ones. All of those (like the new Align tools and everything) should give you little orange toggle buttons in all the modeler viewports. When I get home I'll screenshot what I see on my system (if no one else here can get to it first).

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 12:55 PM
I don't get any options or viewport toggle buttons with the new slice tool.

Check your graphics card drivers, may be there is something wrong going on.

I have the orange markers in my viewport when I activate the slice tool ;)

- - - Updated - - -

By the way: what if I want to weld/merge edges instead of vertices?

Lewis
04-08-2013, 12:59 PM
Check your graphics card drivers, may be there is something wrong going on.

I have the orange markers in my viewport when I activate the slice tool ;)

- - - Updated - - -

By the way: what if I want to weld/merge edges instead of vertices?

Then use WeldEdges or WeldRing OR wait 15 minutes untill my video gets uploaded on to youtube to help you with few LW tricks and ideas ;).

UnCommonGrafx
04-08-2013, 01:01 PM
Indeed!
Brain fart. 'scuse me.
corrected.



yep, a little glitch from UnCommonGrafx i guess, probably meant the weld tool.

Lewis
04-08-2013, 01:14 PM
OK Manna here is one quick and dirti video of tips & tricks for welding and few more :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRzBgyaUMEQ

cheers

dballesg
04-08-2013, 01:22 PM
Yes, I know this.
In fact after placing one vertex on top of the other I select them both and press "m" to merge them :)

Unless there is a quicker way to do the two things ( move + snap + merge, like the merge vertex tool in Maya )simultaneously of course.


Cheers

M.

To merge/weld two or more points the fastest way is selected them for order, being the last one the "goto" one as suggested.

To avoid the annoying message "X points welded" open your Display Options in Modeler pressing 'd'. On the Interface tab select the Alert Level as medium or Low.

Cheers,
David

Cageman
04-08-2013, 01:26 PM
There you go MannaTheBerserk... Lewis just demonstrated why the LW-community is one of the best 3D-communities ever!

Good video Lewis! :thumbsup:

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 01:34 PM
Then use WeldEdges or WeldRing OR wait 15 minutes untill my video gets uploaded on to youtube to help you with few LW tricks and ideas ;).

You are a rockstar! :)

Thank you :D

- - - Updated - - -


OK Manna here is one quick and dirti video of tips & tricks for welding and few more :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRzBgyaUMEQ

cheers

Man, I cannot thank you enough for this!

But nonetheless, Thank you! :D

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 01:36 PM
There you go MannaTheBerserk... Lewis just demonstrated why the LW-community is one of the best 3D-communities ever!

Good video Lewis! :thumbsup:

Oh my gosh if you're right mate!

When I started this thread I couldn't believe my ears when I heard "DING!", the sound of Thunderbird mail client, and... It was the first prompt LW-community answer!

Simply amazing, unbelievable!

Lewis
04-08-2013, 01:38 PM
Man, I cannot thank you enough for this!

But nonetheless, Thank you! :D

You are welcome :).

Spread the word, bring in more Maya people to the "LW Flock", we can help them all to ease transition and they can eat/drink/spend rest of the money ;) :D :D.

BeeVee
04-08-2013, 01:57 PM
Yet another tool that Lewis didn't include, new to LightWave 11.5 is Edit Edges on the Detail tab. This allows you to move an Edge Loop with the LMB, add a new edge with the RMB or remove an edge loop with shift LMB.

B
PS. Weld is on the Detail tab too and the default kb shortcut is Ctrl W, but if you have more than three buttons on your mouse definitely use the driver software to assign some for useful functions in LightWave. For me the Back button is always Deselect in Modeler and VPR in Layout.

jrandom
04-08-2013, 02:12 PM
Edit Edges is one of those "why didn't we have this forever ago??" mandatory tools. So glad we have it now.

Lewis
04-08-2013, 02:14 PM
Here i my mouse shortcuts setup for LWModeler

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 02:15 PM
You are welcome :).

Spread the word, bring in more Maya people to the "LW Flock", we can help them all to ease transition and they can eat/drink/spend rest of the money ;) :D :D.

Well, I am already drunk and full then! Hahahahah :lol:

Lewis
04-08-2013, 02:16 PM
Edit Edges is one of those "why didn't we have this forever ago??" mandatory tools. So glad we have it now.

Yeah it's very cool tool and would be great if they add sliding edges with respect of selection (and not just one by one edge like now), untill then i use CUT tool (i rarely want to inset loop of edges or remove loop but more selection ;)) and 3rd party DEdgeSlide :D.

chikega
04-08-2013, 02:17 PM
And let's not forget the new "Line Pen" tool for LW 11.5 :)

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 02:19 PM
Here i my mouse shortcuts setup for LWModeler

Hahahahaha, I can't believe it! We have the same mouse! :D

I am going to rip your shortcuts off, immediately!

- - - Updated - - -


Edit Edges is one of those "why didn't we have this forever ago??" mandatory tools. So glad we have it now.

I tried this tool a couple of hours ago, just to see what it does, and I have to say it is really good.

Lewis
04-08-2013, 02:22 PM
Hahahahaha, I can't believe it! We have the same mouse! :D


I have 5 of them, 3 on workstaion/render machines, 1 on laptop and one spare (just in case :D :D)

- - - Updated - - -


Hahahahaha, I can't believe it! We have the same mouse! :D


I have 5 of them, 3 on workstaion/render machines, 1 on laptop and one spare (just in case :D :D)

jrandom
04-08-2013, 02:52 PM
I am shocked, shocked to hear that you people aren't modeling with tablets yet.

Shocked.

Also surprised, but mostly shocked.

Lewis
04-08-2013, 02:55 PM
I am shocked, shocked to hear that you people aren't modeling with tablets yet.

Shocked.

Also surprised, but mostly shocked.

I tried few times (had Wacom Grapphire 2) and it's too slow for me, i need more buttons on mouse (pen) for my shortcuts 'coz my left hand is fully on shortcuts and i need as much as possible mouse buttons for my tools/commands (currently I'm using G700 mouse which has default 3 buttons + 8 programmable buttons). Not being able to switch Wire/shade/texture modes and drop tool/drop selection with one mouse button click for me would be like back to stone age :D.

probiner
04-08-2013, 03:04 PM
Connect (L key) all day!!! Stange, no one mentioned it.
Very fast cutter that works for unlinked vertices of the same polygons, single edges, edge rings/polygon loops.

I use a tablet now days, but the Mouse still beats it. Any operation that requires a continuous mouse movement that goes off-screen it kills a tablet. Numeric panel sliders for example turn dead. When I pain with a tablet I get soared wrist of all the pressure control, but when I model with the tablet I get less soared if I would be modeling all day with the mouse :)

Cheers

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 03:04 PM
I have 5 of them, 3 on workstaion/render machines, 1 on laptop and one spare (just in case :D :D)

- - - Updated - - -



I have 5 of them, 3 on workstaion/render machines, 1 on laptop and one spare (just in case :D :D)



Lewis,

Is this tutorial of yours still valid for Lightwave 11.5?

Modeling The 58 (http://www.foundation3d.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=77)


If it is, I think I will buy it.
I believe the best way to learn a 3D package is by following some well done hard surface / industrial design tutorial. Usually they are the ones you can get the best out of.

When I have to teach people how to use Maya I use to do this type of lessons after the basics.

Cheers

M.


P. S. by the way you can call me just "Mauro" which is my real name. The pronunciation is "Ma-oo-raw", more or less :D

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 03:10 PM
I am shocked, shocked to hear that you people aren't modeling with tablets yet.

Shocked.

Also surprised, but mostly shocked.

You know what?

I am a pure left handed digital painter as well as a 3D artist, and when it comes to paint then I use my Wacom Intuos 4 all the time.

Unfortunately modeling and using software that requires a level of precision that the tablet doesn't give you at all, requires a more proper tool, which is the mouse.

Even using Adobe Illustrator is better with a mouse than with a tablet, because the stylus makes your handles and bezier curves handling totally unreliable ( due to the natural hand shaking which everybody has, even surgeons ).

When I sculpt in Mudbox, or paint in Mudbox I am all for the tablet, and in fact I use it all the time of course.

Every task, in my opinion, requires a certain level of precision and a dedicated tool. The forearm and the wrist are definitely more precise than the wrist and the fingers in certain type of tasks.

My 2 Cents ;)

BeeVee
04-08-2013, 03:13 PM
I am shocked, shocked to hear that you people aren't modeling with tablets yet.

Shocked.

Also surprised, but mostly shocked.

I recently bought a Bamboo. I used to have an Intuos 4 A4, but it was too big. I don't think I'll ever use it in LightWave (Modeler or Layout) because as Lewis said, it's too slow and there aren't enough buttons. For Photoshop it can't be beat of course.

B

jrandom
04-08-2013, 03:16 PM
I was mostly being silly, but 3D modeling never really clicked for me until I switched to using a tablet. I also have my trusty trackball plugged in at the same time for precision tasks and actually use both. The right tool for the right job. And a trackball because mice are primitive caveman tools. :hammer:

- - - Updated - - -


I recently bought a Bamboo. I used to have an Intuos 4 A4, but it was too big. I don't think I'll ever use it in LightWave (Modeler or Layout) because as Lewis said, it's too slow and there aren't enough buttons. For Photoshop it can't be beat of course.

You haven't' lived until you've done right-click circle-to-select vertex selection with a tablet. Seriously, it's the greatest thing ever.

Lewis
04-08-2013, 03:50 PM
Lewis,

Is this tutorial of yours still valid for Lightwave 11.5?

Modeling The 58 (http://www.foundation3d.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=77)


If it is, I think I will buy it.
I believe the best way to learn a 3D package is by following some well done hard surface / industrial design tutorial. Usually they are the ones you can get the best out of.

When I have to teach people how to use Maya I use to do this type of lessons after the basics.

Cheers

M.


P. S. by the way you can call me just "Mauro" which is my real name. The pronunciation is "Ma-oo-raw", more or less :D

Ok, HI Mauro :D.

As for tutorial yes it's still relevant, 11.5 didn't change any concepts from that tutorial (and i intentionaly made int in Lw 9.6 in time when 10.x was avaialbe to be more backward compatiblity so that users whcih didn't upgrade to 10.x dont' be afraid to jump in ;)) or big changes, just added few new tools whcih can help in process but not mandatory or any big advantage (although it's always good to have ore features ;)). BTW tutorial is very indept (and long :D) but i explain complete modeling setup and adding 3rd party plugins (all free and downloadable) to ease up process and speedup workflow (sliding points and edges manily in my case which i still use same 3rd party tools (now available in 64bit also).

cheers

nickdigital
04-08-2013, 03:58 PM
Check your graphics card drivers, may be there is something wrong going on.

I have the orange markers in my viewport when I activate the slice tool.


Odd, why would the Slice hud behave differently than the other tools that use the hudg? My Slice hud doesn't show up either.

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 04:16 PM
Odd, why would the Slice hud behave differently than the other tools that use the hudg? My Slice hud doesn't show up either.

Maybe the OpenGL overlay planes got broken because of some issue on the drivers, so it's easy that some HUDs don't display properly. Who knows? :)

It happened more than once to me, with Maya ( which uses extensively OpenGL in all it's features ).

Sometimes uninstalling and reinstalling the video drivers it's enough to get back to a working environment.

- - - Updated - - -


Ok, HI Mauro :D.

As for tutorial yes it's still relevant, 11.5 didn't change any concepts from that tutorial (and i intentionaly made int in Lw 9.6 in time when 10.x was avaialbe to be more backward compatiblity so that users whcih didn't upgrade to 10.x dont' be afraid to jump in ;)) or big changes, just added few new tools whcih can help in process but not mandatory or any big advantage (although it's always good to have ore features ;)). BTW tutorial is very indept (and long :D) but i explain complete modeling setup and adding 3rd party plugins (all free and downloadable) to ease up process and speedup workflow (sliding points and edges manily in my case which i still use same 3rd party tools (now available in 64bit also).

cheers

Good!

I am going to buy it then :)

I have my methods for modeling cars, but they involve Maya tools: it's time to translate that knowledge into Lightwave language :)

Lewis
04-08-2013, 04:29 PM
Cool, thanks, and dont hesitate to ask/post in tutrial forum section (you'll get login stats for that too) if you get any questions regaring tutorial or anythign else in LW, there i slot of helpfull guys and girls here and we have free time while waiting for next upgrade while we dream what it might be :D :D ;).

MannaTheBerserk
04-08-2013, 04:45 PM
Cool, thanks, and dont hesitate to ask/post in tutrial forum section (you'll get login stats for that too) if you get any questions regaring tutorial or anythign else in LW, there i slot of helpfull guys and girls here and we have free time while waiting for next upgrade while we dream what it might be :D :D ;).

Hehehehe, I hope the next update won't come to soon anyway... I mean, I've just spent quite a bit of money! Hahahaha :lol:

Snosrap
04-08-2013, 08:31 PM
Check your graphics card drivers, may be there is something wrong going on.

I have the orange markers in my viewport when I activate the slice tool ;)




I updated my drivers and still no markers. Neither my work or home box has has them so I just assumed the tool did not have them. :) I think you need to prove it to me with a screenshot. :)

jrandom
04-08-2013, 09:08 PM
I was mistaken -- it's not the Slice tool, it's the Line Pen tool. That's the one you want.

Snosrap
04-08-2013, 10:20 PM
I was mistaken -- it's not the Slice tool, it's the Line Pen tool. That's the one you want.

Okay - so the slice tool has no options, is everyone in agreement?

djwaterman
04-08-2013, 11:42 PM
I think so, that's what I was asking about before and have been going quietly insane trying to get slice to do what everyone was saying it could do, which it can't because they were actually talking about the line pen tool. Sanity restored, Maya's split edges is still better because it does what both these tools do and even more since you can select edges that have a bunch of polygons between them and it will put a slice through them all. But I'm certainly not complaining, still prefer modeling in LW.

Lewis
04-09-2013, 12:40 AM
I was mistaken -- it's not the Slice tool, it's the Line Pen tool. That's the one you want.

Yes, don't worry your PC is not ill :D.

prometheus
04-09-2013, 08:57 AM
Yes ..I like the slice tool.

Another quick cut..is to use the quick cut command located under subdivide/more quick cut 1.

if you select edges, or polys and run the quick cut you will split the polys that way with absolute center cut.

Michael

prometheus
04-09-2013, 09:02 AM
the only "hud" for the slice tool for me is the orange point highlighting, ctrl_slice constrains the slice tool to snap to center of lines, or should I say angle snap constrain.
no other options is avalaible in numeric panel.


Michael