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Mitja
04-07-2013, 01:19 PM
Hi,
I have to render an animation of about 8000 frames /5 mins, and due to very short deadline I'll have to ask garagefarm for help.
It'll be my fist time, and along with the lack of time, I can't risk to screw with settings.
I'd need some advice on workflow with the garagefarm guys, and with settings I should use for rendering.
It's an archviz walkthrough, what GI and AA settings do you reccomend? I'm very scared about flickering...
Also, I'll presumably break the animation in variuos scenes. Any problem with that? This means there will be varius render jobs?
I really can't miss the deadline.
Thanks!

OnlineRender
04-07-2013, 04:11 PM
you can throw pretty much anything at garagefarm and there gear will fly threw the scenes , you are best speaking with tomak one on one and he will advice you best in terms of packaging the scene " i would assume setting the frames and export the scene via scene package will be sufficient however again speak with garagefarm" as for the actual render that really is artists settings dependant on what version of LW you are using it will differ , best doing a final stage frame render to see what is the best setting for example 5 minutes on your machine might take 20 seconds or quicker on the farm.

sorry this is the only advice I can give although I know Garagefarm will pretty much bend over backwards to get your product finished within the deadline they are good service in that regard

Tartiflette
04-07-2013, 05:56 PM
Hi,
I have to render an animation of about 8000 frames /5 mins, and due to very short deadline I'll have to ask garagefarm for help.
It'll be my fist time, and along with the lack of time, I can't risk to screw with settings.
I'd need some advice on workflow with the garagefarm guys, and with settings I should use for rendering.
It's an archviz walkthrough, what GI and AA settings do you reccomend? I'm very scared about flickering...
Also, I'll presumably break the animation in variuos scenes. Any problem with that? This means there will be varius render jobs?
I really can't miss the deadline.
Thanks!
The only thing i can say is "talk to Tomek", he is a great guy, always helpful and eager to sort any problem that could eventually rise.
He will tell you what would be best practice and even do some tests with you to ensure everything is fine before sending the job to the renderfarm.
I can't even count the number of time he saved me from a disaster because i had forgotten something before sending the job ! He even stayed a full night aboard once when i got what seemed to be unresolvable problems, to help me figure out the base of that problem.
So in one word i would advice you talk to him, you can't go wrong with GarageFarm, period. :)

Hope it helps.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette. :)

JonW
04-07-2013, 09:38 PM
Don't skip doing test renders. Every 10th to a minimum 30th frame at least & also a 1/4 size, or 1/8 size if you have to for every frame & maybe a few sequences of 60 frames here & there of tricky areas just to make sure at full frame size. Nothing worse than finding stuff-ups in the final render. Shortcuts and not testing before final renders become nightmares!

Overnight render sequences of frames while you are still working on the job to test those areas you have ironed out the problems. You may not be finished in these areas but test rendering should give you a feel it things are looking positive or not!

Also Package scene for these overnight tests & render this file to make sure the whole scene in working.

Get some sleep!

JonW
04-07-2013, 10:04 PM
It's an archviz walkthrough, what GI and AA settings do you reccomend? I'm very scared about flickering...
Also, I'll presumably break the animation in variuos scenes. Any problem with that?
Thanks!

"what GI and AA settings?" This is really tricky! If nothing is moving or changing within the scene you can get away with lower settings. If things are moving or light is changing it's a totally different issue. (if you have some cars moving around on the road & you are not too close turn off Radiosity for those objects & cast shadows. It will save time & in an overall sequence only a LW rivet counter will notice! Good camera angles & interesting fly throughs will hide a multitude of sins!)



If something is moving in part of the scene render that part as a separate sequence plus a second or 2 overlap either end. Then the fixed part of the scene sequences will render quicker as you don't need animated GI for these parts & you can get away with lower settings.

But you really have no choice but to render some sequences of frames to test for flicker & whether you have high enough AA. Higher minimum samples quite ofen is quicker than a stack of AA. If you have things in the foreground motion Blur might be more critical, but then you can reduce AA. You may need to add a bit more oversampling.

Get someone else to review test renders. They may see problems you don't & also may not see problems you do. You may be spending too much time on issues that may not really be seen in the end. It is surprising how differently one views a finished product to how you view parts of the product.

They are no shortcuts you need to test render sequences, & do break up the overall sequence into smaller scenes so you can finalise sections & feel you are moving forward.



Allow plenty of time to assemble everything, it all takes a lot longer than you think. Give yourself a shorter deadline to force yourself to perform faster so you have some backup time, you will need every minute of it at the end. A whiteboard or similar with allocated time for each task & don't fall behind.

Mitja
04-11-2013, 03:10 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. Unfotunately I didn't make it to do the naimation. The "client" wanted topnotch renders ( I fear they wanted an animation like the 3rd & the 7th!!) in 4 days.
Plus ten stills of 5 skyskrapers, all the gardens, with butiques etc... Crazy.
Anyways, I asket Tomek for a quotation, and for 8000 frames he asked 650€ for medium priority (low was about 1/4 he told me).
A guy over ther on LWITA did 8000 frames for 80€. I don't understand such a big difference.
Tomek asked what processor I was using and then gave me the quotation. Any clues on how your current processor affects the price? (For future knowledge)

OnlineRender
04-11-2013, 04:59 AM
Well if you have an I7 and 1 frame takes 10 minutes and he has a dualcore and 1 frame takes 1minute its clearly evident that yours will take longer ,however this just being a guess ...also the frame size maybe smaller than what you had . There are several factors that may bump the price up ...ask garagefarm and he will probably explain it

Lewis
04-11-2013, 07:00 AM
I'd be interested to see that animation rendered for 80 EUR for 8000 Frames? Not sure would that cover electricity bill for 3-4 days of rendering on dozen of DualXeon machines what Tomek uses :). Only thing that could be is that those frames of LWITA guy were extremely fast to render (like all done in 30-40 minutes) but other than that Tomeks offer 650EUR Seems fair to me if your i7 render 5min/frame that means you'd need 27-28 days to render on your PC 24/7 sucking up electricity and preventing oyu to work on your machine anythign else ;)..

I recently had client who wanted 19 000 frames (several animations at once) to be rendered in 3DSMAX at fullHD and my overclocked 3930K iz (4.5GHZ) was rendering frames from 90-200 seconds per frame. I have few i7 machines where I could render it and i told him price would be around 400 EUR if he has 6-7 days to wait to be finished. He told me that is too expensive and that he calculated on Foxenderfarm that 30 000 frames (he entered 30k instead 19k just in case he would want to re-render something ;)) would cost him 240-280$ based on their online calculator and low priority program. Then I said NO-WAY I can't (actually more won't ;)) render it for that money, go to them and render there. Few days later when he sent scene files to Foxrenderfarm to get exact quote before he starts the render and guess what, they calculated him the cost and price offer was 1400$ :D (like 5x more than he got form automatic calculator ;)). All in all he didn't render it at that farm and still waits un-rendered since he is now buying 1400$ PC to render it on his own (which is really silly for single job but hey that's the way how people often calculate/think ;)).

As for Tomek's farm i can confirm what others already said, he is extremely helpful guy and willing to help :).

cresshead
04-11-2013, 07:09 AM
yeh 'online auto calculators' want to offer a low price to get you in the door, i'm sure the fine print will point out that they are only a guess and until you actually submit the scene they cannot be a true representation of the actual price.

GarageFarm are excellent, they have a super fast internet connection too for uploading and downloading frames.

Tartiflette
04-11-2013, 08:21 AM
Yep, as Lewis stated already (and in detail, "Lewis style" ! :bowdown:) 80 for 8000 frames is very suspicious to say the least.

I don't want to sound like a broken record (even if it's exactly that to be honest ! ;) ) or like a fanboy (i know Tomek only via Skype or email and don't have any part in his business...) but as already said he is a very helpful guy, and to my knowledge, i have never seen better prices than GarageFarm's ones on any internet renderfarm.

Not to say it's impossible, but i feel we are lucky that GarageFarm is mainly a LightWave renderfarm, given those low prices and the level of service you can get out of it, almost a dream when you compare to any automated renderfarm out there... (and there are a lot of them !)


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette. :)

Soth
04-12-2013, 11:40 AM
Hi,

Thx for good 'reviews'. :)

Regarding the calculators. We want to add one to the website and I have tested few. One (on the website of quite big and popular farm with not so nice owner/manager) gives you results (for one/two socket configurations) that are off up to 60%. All in favour of dual socket configurations. As most of artists now have some kind last generation i7 the outcome is that final price is almost always nasty surprise. Unfortunate that putting The results are rough estimates without obligation. next to your - almost useless tool - will let you get away with just about everything. Bottom line is that apparently running honest and ethical business is harder than one would think.

Soth
04-12-2013, 11:50 AM
I recently had client who wanted 19 000 frames (several animations at once) to be rendered in 3DSMAX at fullHD and my overclocked 3930K iz (4.5GHZ) was rendering frames from 90-200 seconds per frame.

The quote for low priority (assuming all 180 second frames on 4.5Ghz 3930k) is $520. With some luck just few hours of rendering, I would say no more than 2-3 days (but it could be more i admit). Plus free test every 15th frame before the final rendering.

Keep in mind, if it is VRay scene according to EULA you cannot render animations as a service (simply you cannot charge for rendering of someone else animations).

Lewis
04-12-2013, 12:04 PM
Keep in mind, if it is VRay scene according to EULA you cannot render animations as a service (simply you cannot charge for rendering of someone else animations).

Nahh it wasn't Vray, plain MentalRay render.

Soth
04-12-2013, 12:06 PM
Nahh it wasn't Vray, plain MentalRay render.
Then my previous quotation will be even cheaper. Yeah! :)

JonW
04-13-2013, 01:33 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. Unfotunately I didn't make it to do the naimation. The "client" wanted topnotch renders ( I fear they wanted an animation like the 3rd & the 7th!!) in 4 days.
Plus ten stills of 5 skyskrapers, all the gardens, with butiques etc... Crazy.
Anyways, I asket Tomek for a quotation, and for 8000 frames he asked 650€ for medium priority (low was about 1/4 he told me).
A guy over ther on LWITA did 8000 frames for 80€. I don't understand such a big difference.
Tomek asked what processor I was using and then gave me the quotation. Any clues on how your current processor affects the price? (For future knowledge)

It is not worth killing yourself, let other people do that!

But you could in the meantime if you have spare time do a project based on this situation so you are armed for next time. It's one thing doing stills, but it is a stack more work doing a fly through. Render farm cost are really not the issue it's making sure the whole thing works & compiling everything, a stack of administration.

Make your own "real" job & follow it to the end as though it were for a client. It's an eye opener just how much work is involved.

JamesCurtis
04-13-2013, 01:28 PM
I wish the clients themselves would realize how much work is involved!!

I think I may see about using GarageFarm. Good to know they are mainly a LW facility. Was wondering too, would I need to supply plugins that are used?