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Hail
04-04-2013, 05:02 AM
The Adobe/Maxon collaboration is begining to bear fruits already
http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2013/04/whats-new-changed-after-effects-next.html

50one
04-04-2013, 05:30 AM
The Adobe/Maxon collaboration is begining to bear fruits already
http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2013/04/whats-new-changed-after-effects-next.html


Quite an amazing deal for C4D users, shame the mograph module is not included tho.


http://landingpage.maxon.net/

COBRASoft
04-04-2013, 05:40 AM
Well, the C4D integration is a clear sample where LW has to go to with AE. Donno if LW can pull this one off though. Neverthelss, looks like a great update from AE.

wesleycorgi
04-04-2013, 06:01 AM
I have a Cloud sub so hopefully I'll get to play soon. I would like to see tight LW integration too. But I would also like to see a Fusion LW alliance. Granted Fusion isn't Mac, but Fusion runs pretty decent under Parallels.

Hail
04-04-2013, 06:13 AM
shame the mograph module is not included tho.


http://landingpage.maxon.net/

I'd cut them some slack for now since this is the first release from their collaboration
Looks pretty good though and I hope NT can leverage that into lw :)

tyrot
04-04-2013, 07:59 AM
typical adobe way.. instead of adding 3D into after effects. they are adding 3D SOFTWARE into after effects.

i hope Adobe provides - HOOKS for other 3D software for connecting After Effects. .. I would rather play with my LW instead of C4D ....

- also i feel like this is the first step of acquiring C4D...


and - C4D -After effects
MODO - Nuke

LW .... digital fusion?

50one
04-04-2013, 08:09 AM
typical adobe way.. instead of adding 3D into after effects. they are adding 3D SOFTWARE into after effects.

i hope Adobe provides - HOOKS for other 3D software for connecting After Effects. .. I would rather play with my LW instead of C4D ....

- also i feel like this is the first step of acquiring C4D...


and - C4D -After effects
MODO - Nuke

LW .... digital fusion?

Well, it all depends what you do, if it's compositing/Fx work, the LW/Fusion combo would be great, but for the mograph market the C4D and AE are the best option and also quicker for 99% of your motion graphics needs. That was great move by Maxon I must admit.

Dexter2999
04-04-2013, 08:58 AM
It was a great move by Maxon but I wish it had been a move that Newtek had made about two years ago.

From a motion graphics standpoint Adobe/Maxon makes perfect sense. From an economics standpoint Adobe/Lightwave makes sense.

People who can afford to drop a couple of grand on compositing software aren't batting an eye at dropping big money on Autodesk products. However, AfterEffects and Lightwave are both in the, shall we say, "shallow end of the pool" of finances. Many Lightwave users don't have the money to drop on Autodesk products or thousands of dollars to sink into compositing software.

I really thought the AELink plugin was the signal that something HUGE was about to happen for Lightwave but as great as it was it was too little and then Newtek sort of squashed it as a plug by trying to make it native, but I couldn't tell if the native version had any improvements.


As for the comments about the Mograph editor, well it is a "lite" version of the product. They have to reserve the super useful stuff to be an incentive for users to layout the cash for the full version or there isn't any real advantage in Maxon having the partnership. They would actually (very probably) see a drop in sales of full versions if they did that. People would decide to buy the AE/C4 combo because it had everything they needed. The idea of the partnership is to give people a taste to grow sales.

dsol
04-04-2013, 09:46 AM
The new LW11.5 AE link is - in most situations - far more useful than the AE Link plugin (I say it as someone who bought AE link!). The fact that it works 2 ways is a huge benefit.

Interesting news about AE/Maxon. They must have been working on this for a while - a long time before they officially announced they were forming an alliance. Wonder if this will end up bringing down the price of C4D Studio and Broadcast too? Or if they'll move to a cloud subscription model?

COBRASoft
04-04-2013, 09:48 AM
AE Link says on its website that a new version is coming... Wondering what that will bring. Hope VFXWizard can explain it a bit inhere...

dsol
04-04-2013, 09:50 AM
I know the devs of AE Link have 2-way linking in the works (or maybe even done now). I guess there's still a market for it as there's still quite a lot of LW users who haven't upgraded to 11 yet

Hail
04-04-2013, 10:04 AM
Ok.. after digging around a bit more I came across some more "sneak peaks/teasers"
http://vimeo.com/63301494 and... http://landingpage.maxon.net/?lang=en

tyrot
04-04-2013, 10:23 AM
ok i gave up - it LOOKS pretty awesome .. So are we gonna learn C4D now ?

jeric_synergy
04-04-2013, 10:45 AM
It was a great move by Maxon but I wish it had been a move that Newtek had made about two years ago.
Two years ago they were enquagmired with the stupidity that was CORE.

mav3rick
04-04-2013, 10:46 AM
lw digital fusion.. thanks but no thanks.. we need serious afx integration

dwburman
04-04-2013, 12:20 PM
That, plus the 1st version of LW's implementation of AE connectivity is rather weak compared to AE Link with the exception of the AE to LightWave bit.

Sending things from LW to AE one at a time isn't a big deal if you're only sending the camera and a couple of reference nulls, but if you're doing a huge array of video screens and you want to use AE to put the video on those screens, it'd be a pain to do with LightWave's native solution and just one click in AE Link. Also, AE Link doesn't have the config path issues that LightWave's version does.

I imagine the LightWave devs will fix/update those limitations and I'm glad to see them in there, but AE Link does a much better job for LW to AE at the moment... and, of course, neither solution is anything like the Cineware thing.

erikals
04-04-2013, 12:59 PM
i might be one of few, but the AE to LW feature is quite welcome...

COBRASoft
04-04-2013, 01:51 PM
Damn, that integration is really slick! And C4D Lite comes with the next version of AE... Have to learn C4D soon I guess :(.

raw-m
04-04-2013, 02:37 PM
All this stuff is starting to give me a headache! It's getting really hard to decide what app to use - LW to AE, perhaps animate it in c4d, bring it into LW to texture. Model in LW, animate in C4d, take to AE, hang on a minute, perhaps just model it in LW and bring into AE using Element, animate in Element..... my head's going to explode!

Looks like a partnership that can only bring good things for them. Come on NewTek, I have faith.... :D

VonBon
04-04-2013, 03:05 PM
I would rather Newtek dig up Aura from the grave.

Funnel some money into a small group of "Talented" people and make it happen.

geo_n
04-04-2013, 06:13 PM
Damn, that integration is really slick! And C4D Lite comes with the next version of AE... Have to learn C4D soon I guess :(.

Yes there would be no excuse for compositors, mostly women using macs, not to learn 3D. Hahaha hahaha.... evil laugh. They will learn 3d space atlast. Tried to teach them modo because its simpler than lightwave or 3dmax but still couldn't grasp it.

erikals
04-05-2013, 02:13 AM
it's a shame so few women are doing 3D, i wonder why... might be the time required to learn it...

geo_n
04-05-2013, 05:35 AM
Generally woman have poor depth perception and logic/math to understand 3d, etc. They're better at language skills and artistic stuff that uses the other half of the brain.

erikals
04-05-2013, 05:44 AM
no wonder the person that invented 3D-movies was a guy...(?!) http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

BigHache
04-05-2013, 05:46 AM
While I admit this generally looks cool and looks like a good idea, I'm not going to just sit down and learn C4D unless I'm in a studio that either already uses C4D in their pipeline or doesn't have a 3D solution and they have the Creative Cloud sub. I'm in neither of those situations currently. My job just bought LightWave for me (Yay!) because it's the program I know.

I have a lot of things to constantly learn and keep up with. Learning another program just because Adobe worked out a partnership just isn't enough motivation. On a scale of 1 to Meh, I'd have to rate this news Meh.

dsol
04-05-2013, 05:50 AM
Generally woman have poor depth perception and logic/math to understand 3d, etc. They're better at language skills and artistic stuff that uses the other half of the brain.

This is pretty dangerous territory - and lends itself to misogynistic attitudes. It's certainly true that there's fewer women working in CG than men (and in science, engineering etc.). Technical fields seem to skew heavily towards males, but I don't know if that's rooted in physiological or cultural differences. My girlfriend works as a broadcast graphics designer, and there's only 1 other woman on her team.

I do know that CG and other "techie" fields are often done by people who are... um.. a little obsessive. With at least some overlap on the autism spectrum :) And women rarely seem to be affected by this overwhelmingly male-associated condition, so perhaps that's a physiological difference.

RebelHill
04-05-2013, 05:53 AM
Generally woman have poor depth perception and logic/math to understand 3d, etc. They're better at language skills and artistic stuff that uses the other half of the brain.

What complete garbage...

First, this whole art side/logic side of the brain is a myth... whilst their is lateralisation of certain functions, there is nothing so dichotomous as this popular nonsense.

Second, collected statistics from several decades in several countries of high school and university education show, invariably, that females outperform their male counterparts (if only by a small margin) in math and science based subjects.

50one
04-05-2013, 06:01 AM
What complete garbage...

First, this whole art side/logic side of the brain is a myth... whilst their is lateralisation of certain functions, there is nothing so dichotomous as this popular nonsense.

Second, collected statistics from several decades in several countries of high school and university education show, invariably, that females outperform their male counterparts (if only by a small margin) in math and science based subjects.


I bet your Gf forced you to write this haha....


:):):)

erikals
04-05-2013, 06:02 AM
First, this whole art side/logic side of the brain is a myth... whilst their is lateralization of certain functions, there is nothing so dichotomous as this popular nonsense.
i think you'd find more science papers proves the opposite.


Second, collected statistics from several decades in several countries of high school and university education show, invariably, that females outperform their male counterparts (if only by a small margin) in math and science based subjects.
and why is that? because guys* are rebels, they don't like to be told what to do, ergo have less of an interest of getting good grades.

*in general

i'd love to be wrong though, then we'd have vastly more scientific breakthroughs from women.

RebelHill
04-05-2013, 06:21 AM
I bet your Gf forced you to write this haha....

No, Id mention it to her, but she'd only have another of her ranty rants... just like every time I (jokingly) suggest there's a lot to be said for 50s style housewives who stay home and cook and clean.


i think you'd find more science papers proves the opposite.

Actually... you wont... which is WHY its unsubstantiated nonsense... go look it up, there's a large body of evidence that artistic skills are bilateralised, as are numerical skills, and linguistic skills. What you'll also find is that within these "greater" skill sets, certain details of the skills are lateralised... Such as in language, where word formation and recognition may be dominant on one side, but structure or grammar on another. Plus u halso have variation in the amount of lateralisation between individuals, and an awful lot of things that are still unknown or poorly understood... Still, this whole art side/logic side has next to no evidence to support it, and a pretty large body of evidence that suggests the axact opposite.



and why is that? because guys* are rebels, they don't like to be told what to do, ergo have less of an interest of getting good grades.

Nope, because when the stats are filtered to account for social factors, family backgrounds, etc (girl dunces vs guy dunces, girl geeks vs guy geeks and the like), the same pattern emerges... Women are just better at these tasks (on average by a small margin). What appears to differ is just level of interest... like why do more guys like cars and more girls horses?? Thats an aspect of their socio-psychology, NOT their cognitive functional ability. Ofc... given the bilateralisation points of the previous paragraph, it might be more readily assumed (even though amounting to nothing more than a speculation) that women excel due to the basics of structural anatomy. Specifically, that the corpus collossum (the bridge between the 2 halves of the brain) is thicker in women, potentially allowing for a deeper, or more dynamic level of communication between the 2 hemispheres.

jburford
04-05-2013, 06:29 AM
I was looking for the Thread here in the Forum a few days ago before the news broke of the integration of Cinema 4D with After Effects, but the stupid search here is still worthless. Was wanting to post a bit in regards to Prime version benefits..... but will leave it at that.

Can only say that I am just giggling and enjoying Life and the ways of the C4D Flow and working in it the last few weeks, and unreal how easy to get up and running in it. (been with LW only since Version 3.0) I was lucky and took advantage of their March offer to upgrade to Version 14 for 50% and jumped. (had an older Version of C4D from Ebay which I got for almost nothing) (actually haven' even started LW now since, but will again for GI stuff).

And now the News and showings of the integration. . .. ummnn, sweet!

Life is Great!



Oh, forgot to say on the GF/Woman front, my GF is also really digging in and learning almost quicker than me at the moment. She is not so technical minded, but really creative and grasping the 3D stuff with no problem.

jburford
04-05-2013, 06:35 AM
Damn, that integration is really slick! And C4D Lite comes with the next version of AE... Have to learn C4D soon I guess :(.

Lol, you know around this Forum, all will know what you are doing when you show up with a Paper Bag over your head to stay anonomous.

erikals
04-05-2013, 06:41 AM
well, discussing science is tricky, one day they says this, the other day that.
i think you are probably right in many aspects, though not going to go into detail.

anyway, too bad the situation is how it is, few women, hopefully the number can rise.

geo_n
04-05-2013, 06:50 AM
What complete garbage...

First, this whole art side/logic side of the brain is a myth... whilst their is lateralisation of certain functions, there is nothing so dichotomous as this popular nonsense.

Second, collected statistics from several decades in several countries of high school and university education show, invariably, that females outperform their male counterparts (if only by a small margin) in math and science based subjects.

There are countless studies on it as well as driving instint and performance. You're free to refute it with the researchers. :D
My personal experience is my female collegues don't like to do 3D. They also find the layer system of adobe appz much easier as well than using nodes. Doesn't bother me but having c4d included in adobe would surely make the bosses want them to learn it. Hahaha hahaha.

RebelHill
04-05-2013, 07:02 AM
There are countless studies on it as well as driving instint and performance. You're free to refute it with the researchers. :D

No, mate... there are not... Please, by all means, show me these studies...

Here's some that show the exact OPPOSITE...

http://www.erc.metu.edu.tr/menu/series04/0417.pdf
http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~ecstssp/webfiles/uniperform4.PDF
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ979168&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ979168

and a nice simple news article if u prefer...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8085011.stm

Oh, and btw... DRIVING... countless stats to show women are better drivers (at least from a number of accidents stance)... A great many insurers will give CHEAPER car insurance to women than men... do u think the insurers are somehow so stupid as to not know women are worse if infact, data exists to prove such?


My personal experience is my female collegues don't like to do 3D

As pointed to in previous post... that merely indicates a preference, and says nothing about ability.

geo_n
04-05-2013, 07:25 AM
As I said you can pursue the issue with the researchers. Easy enough to google the docs :D
I don't know how drivers get license in your country but the failing rate of women drivers to get a drivers license is twice or thrice more than men. Google it if you want too. And that's why a lot of women prefer to get the test outside of the cities where the tests are not as strict because paying for retests and everything is around +700000yen.

Are you a girl posting as RH or just a girl? :P

Men
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113331&d=1365167804

RebelHill
04-05-2013, 08:07 AM
As I said you can pursue the issue with the researchers. Easy enough to google the docs

Well then Id like to see u do it... cos if you search for studies on academic results for women vs men... you'll find tons which support what Ive been saying.

If you're gonna claim that all these studies exist that show women do worse, but cant seem to produce a link to any of them, then I can only presume that you've never read them, dont know where they are, and dont have a clue what you're talking about.

I dont have to argue it with the researchers... because if you actually READ the research... the outcome is pretty clear (what Ive been saying is supported, what you have, is not).

COBRASoft
04-05-2013, 08:12 AM
Funny part is, recently is proven that man are better at doing multitasking than woman :). Imagine that... In a few years the opposite will be proven again, I'm sure... And few years later men will be better again... As a software developer/manager, I have rarely seen a good female developer in our regions (none to be honest). This doesn't mean woman are bad at developing software in general.
I hate those researches off late. They tend to break with all known stuff and everything appears to be different then we learnt. I accept we know nothing of nature, physics and the like, we merely know the top 1%. Point is, we need both sexes or the world becomes an even bigger disaster.

dsol
04-05-2013, 08:35 AM
This thread has been totally derailed now. And I'm with Rebelhill here - either provide evidence for your assertions, or GTFO.

OnlineRender
04-05-2013, 09:18 AM
engage politics or relegion mode

jburford
04-05-2013, 10:05 AM
Back to Adobe and C4D . . .

just the waiting game!

COBRASoft
04-05-2013, 10:39 AM
I'm using LWtoAE at this very moment and get the thing to work on 25 frames per second :(. It exports the camera as if 30 frames.
This could be done better I think.

Edit: restarted Layout, all is fine now, move along :).

Hail
04-05-2013, 10:44 AM
Why are many women not doing 3d, coding and science related stuff?
It's simple... it is because Albert Einstein and many others like him were men:D

OnlineRender
04-05-2013, 10:47 AM
I'm using LWtoAE at this very moment and get the thing to work on 25 frames per second :(. It exports the camera as if 30 frames.
This could be done better I think :(

we talking LW camera or AE?_edit
Hmm strange works fine for me! instead of changing it in the options menu try running it via lscript commander Ctrl+q load it and try FramePerSecond 25, I cant see it making it a difference however you never know


RE_EDIT see what happens when you restart :P

50one
04-05-2013, 10:50 AM
Hmmm, OK gender aside. Let's talk what ifs!

What if Newtek would do a combo of Speed edit, LW and maybe create an AE competitor, just look at the motion graphics market and create a tool that will do the bread and butter of the industry: 3d text, grading, etc??:D

m.d.
04-05-2013, 11:23 AM
They would have quite a task competing with AE.....
I have a production company....owned 2 tricasters....video toasters...multiple licenses of speededit...

And am basically a big newtek fan....
That being said...I haven't touched speededit in 2 or 3 years....won't be too vocal why as this is a newtek forum...but Adobe is way ahead of....well everybody...avid included in the editing field....and I ran avid exclusively for the first 4 years....

COBRASoft
04-05-2013, 11:29 AM
AE has so many great plugins: RedGiant, Magic Bullet, VideoCopilot (all of them), ... I don't think NT has to compete with another market, they already have a busy time getting LW up to todays standards. Making a 'pixel perfect' match from LW to AE and back is what is required IMHO.

Another option perhaps is Edius Pro. I have very little experience with it, but heard some nice things of it. http://www.grassvalley.com/products/edius_pro_6.5

jeric_synergy
04-05-2013, 11:32 AM
This is pretty dangerous territory - and lends itself to misogynistic attitudes.
Ya think? 8~

Pretty classic case. Systemic hostility to women is a more likely cause of their under-representation in the boys' club that is production.

robertn2k
04-06-2013, 06:33 AM
Sad day for Lightwave in the classroom. This may be the final nail in the coffin doe Newtek in the education market. The vast majority of HS and College programs that offer some form of video production courses provide some instruction on Photoshop and After Effects and if AE now comes with a light version of CD4 you'd have to be some kind of sales person to convince your department chairman or budget manager to spend money on seats of Lightwave for your lab when CD4 lite come with AE, a program you're already paying for. Sad day for those of us who have been fighting to keep LW in our course offerings.

ivanze
04-06-2013, 10:00 AM
Have you read exactly what is C4D Lite??

It lacks a lot of things, that it really looks like a C4D importer with the basic C4D render engine for AE. A really good importer, btw, but it is very limited for other tasks.

And if I'm not wrong you can't model anything with it, except for text.

http://www.toolfarm.com/images/uploa...rison-Full.pdf

Hail
04-08-2013, 08:14 AM
Hmmm, OK gender aside. Let's talk what ifs!

What if Newtek would do a combo of Speed edit, LW and maybe create an AE competitor, just look at the motion graphics market and create a tool that will do the bread and butter of the industry: 3d text, grading, etc??:D

Ok by your rules..

What if NT wrote a native exporter for C4D in lw to leverage all of the adobe+maxon goodness in AE?
Wouldn't it be better than trying to compete with adobe/maxon by integrating lw and ae? since adobe and maxon have already done the work?

raw-m
04-08-2013, 08:22 AM
Good idea, but wouldn't that mean having to texture in C4d, an area where LWs VPR is so much better than c4d's solution?

Dexter2999
04-08-2013, 09:53 AM
C4Lite certainly isn't a replacement for LW. BUT, what is the upgrade cost from Lite to Pro or Studio Versions? What is the EDU rates for such an upgrade? How does this stack up agains the cost of LW seats? Is there a case to be made that if students are already learning the interface and fundamentals of one program why teach a second one instead of expanding on what they already know from the compositing lessons? Which software has higher potential for job placement?

It doesn't help the case for LW at all.

cresshead
04-08-2013, 07:50 PM
C4Lite certainly isn't a replacement for LW. BUT, what is the upgrade cost from Lite to Pro or Studio Versions? What is the EDU rates for such an upgrade? How does this stack up agains the cost of LW seats? Is there a case to be made that if students are already learning the interface and fundamentals of one program why teach a second one instead of expanding on what they already know from the compositing lessons? Which software has higher potential for job placement?

It doesn't help the case for LW at all.

step back and look at the bigger picture

After Effects being tied into 3d crippleware (cinema lite) isn't such a big deal and Adobe had only a few choices to pick from...Cinema has had close development with AE for some years now so it made a good choice.

for most users it's not a choice of lightwave or cinema4d but of ALL the autodesk 3d like maya, max and softimage , houdini and modo too.
cinema lite is a 'slice' if cinema4d.

the concept is the big deal the lite version is not a real contender for most projects.

Dexter2999
04-08-2013, 08:01 PM
Not talking about most users. Talking about a situation where a school is picking where to put their budget money. Although I didn't quote it, I was replying to Robertn2k.

C4D Studio Academic license is the same price as LW.
There are more C4D jobs out there than there are LW postings (currently)
If you have the choice of trying to teach kids two different 3D programs, as an educator, does it make more sense to ignore the C4D Lite software altogether and buy LW? Or upgrade the Lite software to Studio and teach them that? Or try and teach them two different programs?

All of these things don't work towards promoting the growth of the LW userbase in the educational system.

Being an independent freelancer your choices are wildly different.