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Fotofashion
04-02-2013, 05:49 AM
Hi there. Kind of not getting the hang on texturing, so hoping for some help.

I'm making a scene image where I need the gound to be dark and cracked.. in example like this:

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image found at http://artfreelance.me/2012/12/17/matthijs-smilde/comment-page-1/

alexs3d
04-02-2013, 06:58 AM
in the lightwave presets you can find a dry_lake texture, looking similar to what you want

hope it helps

prometheus
04-02-2013, 08:33 AM
should be working with bump map, normal map, or for higher resolution use displacement maps, check our fractals, like vein etc and tweak those.
As alex3d mentioned, thereīs a preset in the nature category called dry lake.

You can also use cracked geometry, for example render out an image of the fractal or material, import to illustrator and live trace it, expand the outlines and save out as illustrator 8 format, you
can then import to lightwave as curves or polylines, and use that to extrude geometry or use it to slice a ground plane and then bevel the pieces, or maybe use thicken, with this you get true
depth of the cracks, more poly counts of course but maybe more realism, you can use that at least for the big cracks that is supposed to go a couple of centimeters down, and use other finer cracks on bump only.

Michael

prometheus
04-02-2013, 09:00 AM
another tip.. make a ground with a little thickness, then run the Destroy/fracture tool, and use explode parts with a small distance, automaticly cracked hard surface ground, make another groundplane or flat poly
beneath that to catch all shadows, finer cracks with bumps.

Michael

Fotofashion
04-02-2013, 09:38 AM
Thank you guys I'll try your tips :)

Altough i don't have ilustrater, only cs6.

Fotofashion
04-02-2013, 02:03 PM
Is there a way to save the fracture object so it don't need to be animated in layout?

prometheus
04-02-2013, 02:08 PM
Is there a way to save the fracture object so it don't need to be animated in layout?



stay on the base layer, go to map/morph/apply morph, then save out.

Michael

prometheus
04-02-2013, 02:39 PM
procedural cracks are a little hard though, the dry lake is a good start, but can be wrong if used on larger ground areas so you have to rescale them, also the cracks in that material is a little straight, it uses
the vein procedural, you could add a displacement layer beneath that to distort the veins to more curved cracks.

using good textures might be easiest if you can find on the net.

Might also check the thread about ndo, I donīt have it, but might be awesome for cracks and rocks etc.
http://quixel.se/ndo/

Michael

Fotofashion
04-03-2013, 01:44 PM
Thank you werry much, helped a lot :)

Fotofashion
04-03-2013, 05:16 PM
here is a quick test, Need larger and more polys for the cracked ground. But I think it looks ok, even tough I need to work more on the textures.

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prometheus
04-03-2013, 06:29 PM
Also check google or other texture sources, you could google search images and search for ground crack texture, make sure they are free to use, and that they are seamless, and has a high resolution.

Depending on texture, when repeating or set to mirror ..it can look tiled sometimes, so a high res image over as a big area as possible that has been made tileable is to prefer, but also hard to come by.
procedurals is has no limits in resolution so you can zoom in as close as needed, and you can avoid tiling patterns much better, but procedurals are just a fractal proxy of nature and takes a lot of skills to get
to the right nature look...so generally true textures are prefered for the most realistic look.
textures often renders faster, but takes more memory..and the opposite for procedurals.

Hereīs some sources ..cg textures has a soil section which has ground cracks...you can register a free account, but mostly the highest res are for premium users, and the free one only allows a couple of downloads per day, but can be very useful anyway.
http://www.cgtextures.com/

hand hereīs a google fast find...just check rights for it.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UTV6xMDLlzk/TtENL3YbYZI/AAAAAAAAAFE/wzG3veFt2EI/s1600/Dirt+cracked+00+seamless.jpg

you can also use photoshop and adjust levels,curves and contrast to only extract the cracks, or to just make them visable ..save out as a gray scale image and use that in the bump channel, then
you can add colors and fine grain with ordinary procedurals giving it more variations overall, but keeping the ground ridge cracks from the true texture.

Got to sleep now..get back in the morning if I got the time to show more.


Michael

prometheus
04-03-2013, 06:35 PM
just checked your photosite, your one skilled photographer, very nice.
I like the expressive and beauty galleries..lovely.

Would be nice to see a nature gallery,some product shots and city life and perhaps architecture photos...that would complete the album...and the ultimate when you can
combine with 3d too of course.:)

Michael

Fotofashion
04-03-2013, 11:07 PM
Thank you :)

well here is some photography combined with 3d I have done: LINK (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150828426497038.394271.150015807037&type=3)

Most happy with the train wagon I made :)

djwaterman
04-04-2013, 01:15 AM
That test you did with the (presumably) fractured geometry looks pretty good, if you could just get the curling effect that dried mud has, so that each piece is curling up at the sides.How to do it? What if you start with your fractured geometry as a template, and go through it making detailed sub-d meshes for each piece so you can manually depress the middle part. You could do it for a section of them that work as a group, that group would be designed so that they actually tile, then you could instance that geometry to cover as much ground as needed. It seems like a bit of work, but you could probably sell the tile-able geometry chunk on Turbosquid (hell sounds like a good idea I should do myself).

prometheus
04-04-2013, 11:39 AM
That test you did with the (presumably) fractured geometry looks pretty good, if you could just get the curling effect that dried mud has, so that each piece is curling up at the sides.How to do it? What if you start with your fractured geometry as a template, and go through it making detailed sub-d meshes for each piece so you can manually depress the middle part. You could do it for a section of them that work as a group, that group would be designed so that they actually tile, then you could instance that geometry to cover as much ground as needed. It seems like a bit of work, but you could probably sell the tile-able geometry chunk on Turbosquid (hell sounds like a good idea I should do myself).

might be possible to use a subdivided grid plane, and use hypervoxels for that to get infinite detail ground cover, combined with creating weightmaps for crack areas, and weightmaps for curling edges etc, just an idea that I havent tested.

Dpont also has a micropolydisplacement plugin that might do the trick, think I tested it once just, but got some hang ups, given time I need to check that again though.
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_MicroDisp.html

normal maps is also good to use instead of standard bumps, as I refered to quixel and ndo2, you also have a free nvidia normal map filter for photoshop...
https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-texture-tools-adobe-photoshop

how to use normal maps with lightwave, also a tip on texture maker...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ple8AJbdtA

using the nvidia normal map filter in Photoshop...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG3pTxgZdsI

Also check the Rayfire thread on general discussions about a max plugin for great fracturing control, now that is a plugin for max only, but erikals has a link to creating cracks with point polys and
drawing them with magic bevel..

Although I think I would create it by live tracing image in illustrator and convert to eps and stencil on a flat plane, unweld and extrude or thicken the pieces, that if i would want true cracked pieces.
otherwise normal maps I guess.

Michael

prometheus
04-04-2013, 12:03 PM
hereīs a sample image where I extracted only the cracks from the image link posted before, by isolating it
with levels in photoshop and then I made a standard bump map, but I didnīt use the image in the color channel.

I think that using the same image map in the color channel might
produce tiling patterns when you then tile it in lightwave, so
I just use the crack bump and use color variations procedurally.

would need to create normal map to get it deeper I think, maybe correct it in photoshop to be wider in crack ridges too

dpont sunsky, and 5 nulls with hypervoxels for the clouds set to world coordinates, using turbulence hypertexture with very small displacement, using local density gradient on dissolve to have smoother clouds. these are very render intensive ..if I render one of them I get away with it very fast, but two or more of them they are intersecting and sucking up render time big time, need to check why that is, So this is only a vpr preview.

The rock that doesnt fit in this environment..it is made of two displaced geometry rocks with a nice rock texture.
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XswampyX
04-04-2013, 02:06 PM
Here's something I knocked up.

It's a cube that has been fractured in modeler and then instance in a grid 500 x 500 to act as the floor. I have also used the nodes to randomly rotate the cube to give a non repeating texture to the floor (array). Each rotation is quantized to 90deg increments. Given a bit more time on the base model I think it could look quite good. Also the bending effect of the exploded, fractured box gives a nice fade to the texture edges.

Have a look.

Scroll through the time-line to see the different faces of the cube that make up the floor. You will need to have VPR on to see the colours.

Cheers!

prometheus
04-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Here's something I knocked up.

It's a cube that has been fractured in modeler and then instance in a grid 500 x 500 to act as the floor. I have also used the nodes to randomly rotate the cube to give a non repeating texture to the floor (array). Each rotation is quantized to 90deg increments. Given a bit more time on the base model I think it could look quite good. Also the bending effect of the exploded, fractured box gives a nice fade to the texture edges.

Have a look.

Scroll through the time-line to see the different faces of the cube that make up the floor. You will need to have VPR on to see the colours.

Cheers!


Thankīs..interesting with different techniques.

hereīs two scenes with hypervoxels applied on vertices, using hypertexture
in node editor mode, and using two textures, basicly two wein cracks
just different scaling, they are combined with the add node.

You can distort this in many ways and plugin different other textures in
to the position input or scale input for example.
there is a muddy sample to with distortions.

A little render time consuming but detail wise you can zoom in as much as you want, preferably test with vpr.

Also check dponts stone and rock nodes at his site, they are part of rman collection for those wondering.

prometheus
04-04-2013, 05:09 PM
another sample image, improved from the scenes I posted before...sunsky, a little fog, and some changes in scale, and extra texture in to rotation input to distort the cracks a little.
All hypervoxels surfaces on the ground and all procedural textures actually distorting the hypervoxels and cutting in to the volume with cracks.

Michael

alexs3d
04-05-2013, 12:20 AM
the stone looks awesome :) i like the texture, are this more textures combined or procedural.
which displacement textures did you use...

thanks


hereīs a sample image where I extracted only the cracks from the image link posted before, by isolating it
with levels in photoshop and then I made a standard bump map, but I didnīt use the image in the color channel.

I think that using the same image map in the color channel might
produce tiling patterns when you then tile it in lightwave, so
I just use the crack bump and use color variations procedurally.

would need to create normal map to get it deeper I think, maybe correct it in photoshop to be wider in crack ridges too

dpont sunsky, and 5 nulls with hypervoxels for the clouds set to world coordinates, using turbulence hypertexture with very small displacement, using local density gradient on dissolve to have smoother clouds. these are very render intensive ..if I render one of them I get away with it very fast, but two or more of them they are intersecting and sucking up render time big time, need to check why that is, So this is only a vpr preview.

The rock that doesnt fit in this environment..it is made of two displaced geometry rocks with a nice rock texture.
113302

prometheus
04-05-2013, 12:43 AM
the stone looks awesome :) i like the texture, are this more textures combined or procedural.
which displacement textures did you use...

thanks


not sure, might be that I used fractalize, or displacements, I am working on a different scene right now, and then off to bed, but I will get back tomorrow and let you know.
But the texture is just a very good free rock texture I found, I can check tomorrow and provide you with a link, I just used cubic mapping and scaled it properly, could
of course have been done with proper uv for even better look.

I got even better rocks and stones than that though.

Michael

Greenlaw
04-05-2013, 01:02 AM
Whenever I did this sort of thing in the past, I used at least two layers of textures (image or procedural) with different positional/rotational settings, and then used a large fractal mask to randomize each layer's visibility. This helps prevent the 'patterning' that almost always occurs when using small procedural textures over a large area. I also like to use a 'distance to camera' setup on a gradient to reduce the effect of the bump/normal maps in the distance--this eliminates the 'buzzing' that will almost certainly occur with tiny bumps/normal mapping. There are other details you can add for realism but this foundation should give you a good starting point.

G.

prometheus
04-05-2013, 01:20 AM
Whenever I did this sort of thing in the past, I used at least two layers of textures (image or procedural) with different positional/rotational settings, and then used a large fractal mask to randomize each layer's visibility. This helps prevent the 'patterning' that almost always occurs when using small procedural textures over a large area. I also like to use a 'distance to camera' setup on a gradient to reduce the effect of the bump/normal maps in the distance--this eliminates the 'buzzing' that will almost certainly occur with tiny bumps/normal mapping. There are other details you can add for realism but this foundation should give you a good starting point.

G.

indeed...good tips about the distance to camera setup gradient to eliminate the noise at distance.

Michael

alexs3d
04-05-2013, 05:49 AM
nice...thanks for the tips

@prometheus - yes would be great, maybe someday you could do a tutorial on making a good looking stone :)

i know a tutorial but i canīt find the link, he mapped a cube with a tileable rocktexture and fixed the seams, than hi subdivides the cube and sculpet the rock, itīs a 3d max tutorial.... does somebody know this tut :)

prometheus
04-05-2013, 01:26 PM
nice...thanks for the tips

@prometheus - yes would be great, maybe someday you could do a tutorial on making a good looking stone :)

i know a tutorial but i canīt find the link, he mapped a cube with a tileable rocktexture and fixed the seams, than hi subdivides the cube and sculpet the rock, itīs a 3d max tutorial.... does somebody know this tut :)

I recall the process now..however, I have put making tutorials on hold, since I am only working a little from my laptop and my big machine still needs to be fixed when times allows, dont want
to install and use recording device on my laptopt+ I got a lot to do with other private matters too.

I can give tip or maybe a pdf doc, would be easier to do without me having to go through recording.

Anyway, what I use to do...It is to simply draw out a shape with the pen tol, with a couple of segments to get the base rock profile, make sure it is all quad, then extrude or thicken once without divisions.
then i run the model command fractalize, maybe even twice, and after that I might use metaform subdivide.

The cool stuff comes when you use point normal move on such fractalized object, and inflate i..you get this boulders on the object with sharp cavity edges almost..thats a little of the trick.
then I just ran in to this great texture..applied it with cubic mapping, some adjusting in scale, it matters a lot how well it is scaled.
texture is set to world coordinates and repeat.

heres a link to the texture, it is the texture of the day 3...scroll down to aprox middle of the site, the image is called rock 02, and you also have some other good ones, check the rights though, and maybe sen him some thanks.
http://www.ryane.com/?cat=6&paged=5

or this direct...
http://ryane.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/rock_02.jpg

I might send you the rock later..for the scene I cloned it three times and varied rotation and scaling, one of them..i think I might have additional displacement in there too.

Strange that it looks so good without any further tweaks in other channels, I dont even got bump map on it, so converting the texture to a normal map, tweak some spec channels etc.
and make a good uv map of it might push it really further.

I recall that I was very interested in finding rock textures similar to that of the prometheus movie, but ended up with this...I did some cool experiments with displacements and dponts pipe proceduralto get a weird limestome structure that had some weird cavity displacement resembling some wadi rum rocks ..not exactly but resembling.

Michael

alexs3d
04-09-2013, 12:01 AM
thanks for the detailed explanation and the texture, the trick with point normal move is cool, have to try it :)

Fotofashion
04-11-2013, 01:14 PM
another sample image, improved from the scenes I posted before...sunsky, a little fog, and some changes in scale, and extra texture in to rotation input to distort the cracks a little.
All hypervoxels surfaces on the ground and all procedural textures actually distorting the hypervoxels and cutting in to the volume with cracks.

Michael

Mind sharing the ground setting here :)


OK, worked a lot understanding hypervoxels now.. sky and ground is done with hypervoxels.. Render time is insane, but I guess I have to live with it.
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prometheus
04-11-2013, 03:44 PM
Mind sharing the ground setting here :)


OK, worked a lot understanding hypervoxels now.. sky and ground is done with hypervoxels.. Render time is insane, but I guess I have to live with it.
113504

I think I could post the whole scene of that..If I can locate it:) might not today..but I will look for it.
that is the one with the hypervoxels ground you mean.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113318&d=1365116935

yes...the sample image with the voxel clouds are a couple of nulls with huge Hv size, gives nice results ..but using more than one and intersecting isnīt very nice to deal with renderwise, In fact I think I will stray away from that, I could only post that image due to vpr dealing with it faster.

It might be to preferably spray points or use subdiv grids and use hypervoxels on them, that would render much faster and you get a sort of global cloud distribution, but..therin lies a problem
with getting a smooth transition between hypervoxels points.

Michael

Fotofashion
04-11-2013, 04:15 PM
Thank you. I was thinking more about the ground :)

My sky actually rendered ok. but tryed to render just the ground and it really hit the render time. I really like the effect on your last ground and something like that I'm trying to get.

prometheus
04-11-2013, 04:19 PM
which one?

Fotofashion
04-11-2013, 05:26 PM
The one with the warm color tones :)

prometheus
04-11-2013, 05:36 PM
The one with the warm color tones :)

yeah..thatīs the one with hypervoxels ground, Im off to bed now..so I get back tomorrow..and in the evening, maybe 17-18 hours until then.
canīt seem to find the correct one.

Michael

prometheus
04-11-2013, 06:05 PM
I found it..on my desktop in a special post to newtek folder...and not in my usual content folder, haha.

I added one incremental scene where I switched light type from distant to the dpont sk_sunlight, you might encounter problems with either a crash or not looking the same for the
environment sunsky..located in backdrop, I tried the newest sunsky but had issues with it so I went back to the version before the latest sunsky update.
sun is switched to manual in the sunsky menu, so you rotate the sun with the pitch,heading controls as you would with other items.

control of the sunsky can be acessed by double clicking on sunsky in the backdrop menu, or install the full control script from dpont, not installed here though.

fog is on, hypervoxels on the ground is applied to each vertices, in hv surface panel you can acess controll of the cracks in the node editor where I use two vein procedurals and some
distortions by feeding noise in to rotation channel.

Hope it works for you...and can I go to bed now? :)

Michael

prometheus
04-11-2013, 07:01 PM
About hv and AA, you can bypass aliasing on hypervoxels by unchecking the volumetric aliasing in the volumetric and fog options, thatīs probably why it takes so long to render when used with
other objects/items in the scene requiring aliasing.

a simple HD resolution render on this scene with minimum samples of 3, took 2min,7sec
and without volumetric aliasing it took 40 seconds
on my laptop.
theres not much of quality loss in the hypervoxels, finer cracks is smoothed out with AA, and some texturing and that might be necessary to avoid flickerin in animations perhaps.

Michael

Fotofashion
04-12-2013, 02:48 AM
OK great. I'll have to test that when I get home :)

Fotofashion
04-12-2013, 03:24 AM
OH and a other thing, there is no effecting voxels with DOF right?

prometheus
04-12-2013, 06:48 AM
OH and a other thing, there is no effecting voxels with DOF right?

there was no DOF setup in that scene, activating it works as normal and affects voxels, but with volumetric AA unchecked it might be grainy on the voxels.

Michael

Fotofashion
04-13-2013, 05:55 AM
there was no DOF setup in that scene, activating it works as normal and affects voxels, but with volumetric AA unchecked it might be grainy on the voxels.

Michael

Ok great, will test when i get back from hong kong :)