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hrgiger
03-26-2013, 05:22 PM
Watching one of the Modo 701 demos shows a scene with 2.7 Billion with a B polygons and they are navigating throug the scene while the preview renderer is running. Even more impressive is the fact that they easily select some polygons on a model with no delay and are able to perform a bevel operation without much lag (that I can see anyway). That's probably the most impressive display of performance I've seen in a 3D application before. I would love to see that kind of data handling performance in LightWave. That demo alone made a huge impression on the way I view Modo.

So I was just curious what was important to other LightWave users. So if you had to pick say, 3 things you would like to see what tops your list of things you would like to see over the next few iterations of LightWave? I dont' necessarily mean just list 3 feature requests, I mean things that you think really need improvement in LightWave. Could be things like workflow, program access, GUI, consistency, longstanding issue resolution, etc.... But if there are certain features that you think LightWave is really lacking, you can list those too. Not trying to be limting in any way.

For me it would be:


Program integration (merging of modeling and layout functions into single environment where tools are tools- not specific modeling OR animation tools.
Large Scene data handling (Polygon pushing power)
Deformation improvements (stackable deformation)

chikega
03-27-2013, 07:55 PM
Yes, I agree. MODO 701 is a rather impressive release. I remember when Softimage released it's Gigacore architecture - still amazing today. I'll be upgrading to 701 soon and put it through it's paces.

jeric_synergy
03-27-2013, 08:11 PM
Search, Help, and Documentation.

geo_n
03-27-2013, 08:43 PM
same top 3 as on first post.

Snosrap
03-27-2013, 09:17 PM
1. Everything node based with anything being able to to drive and connect to anything.
2. Animated modeling funtions. - Why can't you move the frame slider ahead 10 - 15 frames and grab a vertice and make a keyframe of that new vertice position? I really don't get that. (speaking of modo as of course there is no animation in Modeler. :))
3. Total clean up of the modeling tools with workflows thought through.

I could go on and on. :)

OFF
03-27-2013, 11:52 PM
Core 2.0! )

Lewis
03-28-2013, 02:00 AM
1. New Mesh system, Tons faster than what we have now
2. Integration and fully nodal acess to modeling and animating
3. Modifier stack - history stack /proper undo.

Simon-S
03-28-2013, 02:43 AM
A decent history/undo system in layout that remembers more than just translation/rotation/scale would be really nice. We've kinda got used to undo being so terrible but isn't it time Newtek caught up with other 3d apps out there?

50one
03-28-2013, 03:07 AM
Ditch the modeler! Work on the Layout only(increase the rendering capabilities and animation) while injecting the CORE elements into it(modeling tools), reduce the price of the package a little...while I appreciate the work on modeler I believe it's wrong to do the changes now as it is too late and it waste the resources. I would rather have fluid effects in layout, better hypervoxels and animation tools in Layout than another sexy bevel or chamfer tool in modeler :)

Dodgy
03-28-2013, 03:37 AM
Thing is each of the devs have their specialities, so David Ikeda and James Willmott (I think) can work on modeler and it wouldn't cause a massive loss to layout.

I myself want liquid watery type liquids! It's the only thing I can't fake or work around at the mo, so I would really really want it.

mav3rick
03-28-2013, 04:40 AM
i have tested 701 vs 11.5 on 1 million poly object modeler.. i have to say thumbing round is same speed, and rotating elements (if not item mode) is just a little faster in modo.
Extruding with new lw 11.5 tranform tool is faster than in modo.. generally if you do not work in item mode.. modo is slow as lw is... in item mode it is faster than lw backdrop layer but not 175 x (maybe compared to modo 601)
in the end.... LIGHTWAVE 11.5 new mesh tools once initialized is way faster than modo 701 but problem is 11.5 new mesh tools takes ages to initialize and we definitely need this new system to be ON by default all the time while modeling means complete LW TOOLS to be transformed into new mesh system.. once they do this we will have lott faster modeler.. i would say faster than modo 701....

OnlineRender
03-28-2013, 06:33 AM
particles *fluids ,flame/smoke and so on"
Sculpting tools
bullet constraints.
beer

safetyman
03-28-2013, 07:40 AM
Thing is each of the devs have their specialities, so David Ikeda and James Willmott (I think) can work on modeler and it wouldn't cause a massive loss to layout.

So... can't they do the same with Layout? I.E. work on some modeling tools in Layout without "breaking" modeler? That way you get closer and closer to a unified app as time goes on. I'm not a programmer so I may be way off base here. That takes care of #1: A unified app.

#2: A more modern interface/workflow. If you look at the other apps out there they are getting some interface love all the time, and it seems like LW hasn't changed at all since before I was born. That's not necessarily bad, but I'm not an old codger yet -- I can handle change. Hit me.

#3: While I agree on the modifier stack thing, it's not a deal breaker. It would really improve things 100-fold, but I'll bet a re-write of major chunks of code would be in order, and that isn't in the cards at this point apparently.


particles *fluids ,flame/smoke and so on"
Sculpting tools
bullet constraints.
beer

Hey! that's four things. I want beer too.

erikals
03-28-2013, 07:47 AM
• Program integration (merging of modeling and layout functions into single environment where tools are tools- not specific modeling OR animation tools.
• Large Scene data handling (Polygon pushing power)
• Deformation improvements (stackable deformation)

sorta the same list here, +lattice (or maybe i can hack that somewhat with DP spline, have to check...)

OFF
03-28-2013, 07:50 AM
... work on some modeling tools in Layout without "breaking" modeler
For example - select poly's and make new surface..

COBRASoft
03-28-2013, 08:15 AM
- Decent snapping tools aka LWCad in Layout
- history stack in modeler which is saved within the object if wanted
- OO models, by this I mean it should be able to extend the base models with extra properties like weight or mass, ...
- even better I/O, too many time I have problems importing 3ds or obj files.
- Futher enhanced Genoma with walk designer aka Poser
- Camera preview in modeler
- VPR in modeler (probably a strange request :))

Spinland
03-28-2013, 08:38 AM
1. Integrate most or all of the LWCAD tools--sounds like a great opp for a partnership

2. I've seen a lot of discussion about fixing Modeler to handle big poly counts, but in my recent experience it's more of a Layout problem for me. I have a favored DAZ model that's just under 71k polys that I rigged, and in Layout animating it is a royal pain. I have to set the threshold to boxy display in order to be able to deform the model without impossible choppiness, which IMO kills my feel for how to move parts. This on a quad core i7 machine with 16GB of RAM. Not sure what aspet of the program needs to be "fixed" to mitigate that but that's what I'd like to see updated.

hrgiger
03-28-2013, 08:45 AM
2. I've seen a lot of discussion about fixing Modeler to handle big poly counts, but in my recent experience it's more of a Layout problem for me. I have a favored DAZ model that's just under 71k polys that I rigged, and in Layout animating it is a royal pain. I have to set the threshold to boxy display in order to be able to deform the model without impossible choppiness, which IMO kills my feel for how to move parts. This on a quad core i7 machine with 16GB of RAM. Not sure what aspet of the program needs to be "fixed" to mitigate that but that's what I'd like to see updated.

Deformations are just slow in LightWave period. However, Daz models aren't really ideal for animating. I would recommend in the meantime getting yourself a good retopo program and creating a version of the DAZ model retopologized for animation. Topogun is a good choice and I belive I paid about $100 for my license.

Spinland
03-28-2013, 08:55 AM
Good point, and I already bought 3D Coat and that's probably one of the first uses to which I'll put it. I just figured I'd chime in with what was annoying me most. ;)

Hail
03-28-2013, 12:15 PM
No more new tools!!!
New tools can get only outdated very quickly in no time if the underlying structure is weak, so its important to build a solid structure first. A good foundation also lays the ground for solid future updates ie Modo
Don't get me wrong I love new toys too but I'd rather have the outstanding underlying issues in lw sorted out first before new tools are introduced.
So here is my shortlist

1. they need to rework the poly core to be able to handle huge poly scenes better(perhaps 200x better than current lw11.5:D) and much, much faster deformations
2. rework the undo system to include the history and modifier stacks we saw in core
3. unification of modeler and layout and lay the grounds for animatable modelling tools
4. a rework of the UI to accommodate dockable windows
5. the node graph we saw in core where everything is accessible to everything
they can then begin to introduce the modelling tools we saw in core.

I m sure there can be alot more to this list but for now this is what I think the LW3DG should concentrate their resources on and then we can begin to have an awesome modern lw12/13...?:D

hrgiger
03-28-2013, 12:25 PM
No more new tools!!!


I'm with you on this. I would love to see a full fledged LightWave release that focused soely on reinventing LW's infrastructure for increased performance and futureproofing, fixing longstanding issues, and making LW more consistent and improving interoperability across the board. That would say a lot more to me about LW3DG's committment to LightWave's future.

erikals
03-28-2013, 03:06 PM
No more new tools!!!

understand the request, but it's hardly a good marketing approach, for getting new customers.

but hey, maybe to a certain amount.

GandB
03-28-2013, 03:09 PM
G A M E D E V E L O P M E N T P I P E L I N E.....................

Unity, UDK, Cry-Engine....take your pick.

MarcusM
03-28-2013, 03:17 PM
G A M E D E V E L O P M E N T P I P E L I N E.....................

Unity, UDK, Cry-Engine....take your pick.

Exactly!

(Objects exported as FBX to Unity from Modeler have broken normals... ;] )

Smoothing groups.
More UV mapping tools.
UV tile in Modeler.
Easier/Faster texture baking. (For new users :) ) Option to bake all UV maps in baking camera.
Auto refresh in image editor or bridge with Photoshop.
Pop up UV window in Modeler!
Zoom in mouse scroll in Modeler :D
Rotating in Modeler Alt+RMB like in Layout. Now, even after few beers i can't use it :)


Sometimes small improvements is the best.

evenflcw
03-28-2013, 03:32 PM
No more new tools!!!

+1 Everything Hail and HRGiger said.

@erikals
Handling massive amounts of data makes existing features more impressive and practical. And without it, new tools underperform from the getgo, no matter how innovative. As such it should be quite enough to impress new and old users. And who said we can only have one thing?

erikals
03-28-2013, 03:33 PM
Zoom in scroll in Modeler :D

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?61855-LW-AutoHotKey-Repository&p=482454&viewfull=1#post482454 :O ;]

mav3rick
03-28-2013, 04:14 PM
WHO SAID SIT DOWN!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE

sorry had to put some Steve mojo here :)

alexs3d
03-29-2013, 01:47 AM
- painting weightmaps in layout
- easier texture/normal map baking
- some simple sculpting/deformation brushes/functionality for simple landsape creation

gordonrobb
03-29-2013, 02:27 AM
For me I think modeller does everything I need, just too slow. Fix that. Integrate LWCad.

Red_Oddity
03-29-2013, 04:17 AM
1 - A working unified undo stack
2 - Every tool remember it's f-ing last used settings.

These 2 alone would shave days of budgets and make me live longer.

erikals
03-29-2013, 04:21 AM
2 - Every tool remember it's f-ing last used settings.

+1 on that
(with an on/off option that is...)

dsol
03-29-2013, 05:48 AM
1. Pervasive and easy to setup support for proxies (low-poly versions of objects/billboards) for fast interactivity in complex scenes. Improved reliability and speed with hard body dynamics by using low-poly proxies for Bullet calculations, then applying movements to full res objects. Display proxy level chosen from a dropdown in the viewport - and the option to "auto degrade" proxy level based on FPS for a scene when scrubbing through?

2. Speaking of Bullet - objects transformed by bullet physics are effectively deformed (not transformed), so you can't parent other objects, lights, instances etc. to them. I don't know the best way to work around this, but from an artist perspective - if I have an object parented to a object being bounced around by physics, I'd expect to see it match the movements. Right now, it matches the position, but not the rotation. Physics provides a way for very complex and natural looking animation to be created with minimal user input. I want to see it incorporated deeply in all thinking going forward for all LW animation tools. For example, can you imagine how cool it would be to have IK chains support physics, so you got proper "sway" when a limb jerks to a stop?

3. Scene management. One of LW's biggest limitations is that it's a nightmare to manage very large complex scenes. We need some way to logically partition and simplify how it's organised - at least to the end user. Supporting referenced, nested scenes is one way (with the ability to store local overrides in the parent scene file). It might also be time to do something radical, like lose the OBJECT/BONE/LIGHT/CAMERA popups at the bottom of the screen, and replace them with a dockable, streamlined version of the scene editor.

4. Oh - and of course, modelling and vertex painting in Layout. But keep the option to have a split workflow. So you can open up a scene/object in a "modeller" workspace, while keeping your master scene in "layout" workspace.

safetyman
03-29-2013, 09:35 AM
Have you noticed that a lot of these feature requests were shown to be in CORE (unified app, sculpting, modifier stack, customizable UI, etc.)? This makes me somewhat happy since the powers that be have stated that they intend to incorporate a lot of what we saw in the CORE demo into future versions of LW -- just in smaller increments. Am I too far off the beaten path of reason?

Snosrap
03-29-2013, 10:07 AM
This makes me somewhat happy since the powers that be have stated that they intend to incorporate a lot of what we saw in the CORE demo into future versions of LW -- just in smaller increments. Am I too far off the beaten path of reason? Well the new tools in 11.5 are almost spitting images of how those tools worked in Core. The drawing style is very similar too.

prometheus
03-29-2013, 10:36 AM
As mentioned from others in the begging, ground core work with large datahandling for both mesh,volumetrics,and particles.
openVDB implementation perhaps, but havenīt we always ranted for this?
of course dependent on the system..but anyway.

I can promise you some cools stuff if they can manage particle handling so a 8-15 million particle cluster responds in the same time as 500 000 particles today, then I show you
something:)

Question is what would be best..and of course how far and what they actually has now for the..

1.Intergration..how far has it come? and whatīs up.
2. History stack/parametric modeling.

I actually think I would like to see history/parametric modeling first actually...but maybe it first requires to work on intergration in order to get it right later, donīt know, I can see how
enourmously modeler can be enhanced using parametric modeling together with LwCAd with this though.

3. Apart from such ground core and rework, there are some stuff that is so old and is in desperatly need, you know it...particles, (check modo) hypervoxels..check shrox thread "fix it"
and you know what..look and.. and you see what?..thatīs righ..t environments and sky,skytracer should be dropped and replaced with some sort of dpontīspectral sky, but with a proper volumetricmode..which means a true volumetric sunlight that interacts with a new invented cloud textured layer (skytracer cant cash ray shadows for godrays or even cloud shadows on ground)
OPenVD might hold something too for volumetrics.
voxels adapting full geometry ..like modo volume item, voxels having a proper blending tension mode, like dynamite plugin had, and of course distance between particle age
gradient to dissolve breaking up particles and avoid puffs, also efficient when scaling particles in liquids immensly.

4. Improve a little on VPR..make it optional to have a modul panel (like viper) that can be set to which ever resolution needed, having this will let you work in any viewport in other modes and moreefficient work with VPR more accurate to actual camera resolution, also if done right..it can be easy to just make preview and play it back instantly as you do with viper and checking hypervoxels motion without going to preview options and get a lot of requesters for which codec to use.

5.UI panel docking and expanding,snapping modules.

all the new stuff introduced?..well I think they might need to give some of them a rest, unless they know they can fix enhancements in a fast way, basicly thereīs a lack of particle interaction with all bullet dynamics.(see modo particles pushing dynamics)

6.one new feature...well, there is one task that seems to be very hard to do natively...good liquid stuff, open source blender should we have to learn to use that as extra tool, or use expensive real flow ...or can
we get a genious coder to fix something liquid, maybe extract methods from blender?

7..small new features, infinite plane with water and ground presets, preset menus with object thumbs and drag and drop them without requesters, presets for displacements and motions and particles, bullet.

Edit...more:)
8. more enhancements to modeler, including checking possibilities for nurbs/solids for more accurate construction work and interchange with cad tools,importers exporters.

MSherak
03-29-2013, 11:04 AM
Watching one of the Modo 701 demos shows a scene with 2.7 Billion with a B polygons and they are navigating throug the scene while the preview renderer is running. Even more impressive is the fact that they easily select some polygons on a model with no delay and are able to perform a bevel operation without much lag (that I can see anyway). That's probably the most impressive display of performance I've seen in a 3D application before. I would love to see that kind of data handling performance in LightWave. That demo alone made a huge impression on the way I view Modo.
[/LIST]

LOL, what I wanted to know is what machine is he running this on.. If it's a Xeon Mac then I know why it moves that fast. LW would move that fast also. Show me average user machine as a benchmark and I bet you that 2.7 billion brings it to a halt. So until then don't believe everything you see..

realgray
03-29-2013, 11:16 AM
1. Parametric Modeling
2. Render Passes
3. Unification

- - - Updated - - -

1. Parametric Modeling
2. Render Passes
3. Unification

Snosrap
03-29-2013, 12:13 PM
5.UI panel docking and expanding,snapping modules. Yep, I think the toolkit is their biggest issue right now as far as improved workflows go. Matt can't do anything! :)

jeric_synergy
03-29-2013, 12:24 PM
Content Directory system that doesn't slow me down more than it helps me.

data TYPES with their own persistent per session directories
full reset to Content Directory paths on relaunch (iow, not across sessions


re: the first: I don't want to be taken to the plugin directory when I'm trying to load an IMAGE.
re: the second: just cuz I loaded something yesterday from off the Content path doesn't mean I want to do that today.

+++
And while I don't do big scenes, I don't know how LW can expect to get used for big projects if it doesn't have some sort of referencing system: Each parameter living in its own scene must have been a consistency nightmare for bigger projects, rather than each scene referencing a Master Scene for a given prop or character.

sadkkf
03-29-2013, 12:35 PM
particles *fluids ,flame/smoke and so on"
Sculpting tools
bullet constraints.
beer

With Bundy instead of beer, I agree to these.

zapper1998
03-29-2013, 12:36 PM
all windows Sizable
Surface editor, Node editor...etc etc

sadkkf
03-29-2013, 12:36 PM
And a way better installer/updater. I often skip point releases because I hate having to reinstall all my plugs. Glad the dongle is finally gone, too.

3djock
03-30-2013, 06:05 PM
It would be nice to have fracture like this as well as thinking particles to work with bullet
http://www.andvfx.com/demolition-master/
https://vimeo.com/62941808
but that is wishful..

hrgiger
03-30-2013, 06:44 PM
LOL, what I wanted to know is what machine is he running this on.. If it's a Xeon Mac then I know why it moves that fast. LW would move that fast also. Show me average user machine as a benchmark and I bet you that 2.7 billion brings it to a halt. So until then don't believe everything you see..

He mentioned what machine it was on and it wasn't anything extraoridnary from what I remember the key was that he was using a machine with a lot of memory and the viewport renderer was using RayGL which is a raytraced view of the scene in near final rendering quality. He was using 48 GB of RAM but said the scene only required 16GB for the same performance.

And no, LightWave would not move this fast on even on the best Xeon processor. Even on a fairly modern computer, LightWave starts lagging with more then 100,000 polygons in modeler. Tumbling/rotating the view is fine, but trying to edit the model as is done in the Modo video, its SLOW.

Nicolas Jordan
03-30-2013, 10:02 PM
I would like to see everything in Lightwave much more closely integrated with each other. The major strength of Modo that is evident now more than ever with the release of 701 is everything thing is very tightly integrated together. Almost every feature is able to talk to to other features. Everything can see everything else in Modo in some productive and relevant way. Lightwave has some very nice features but as a program but feels very fractured in more ways than just Modeler an Layout being separate. After using modo for years now I see the power of a tightly unified environment. I'm looking forward to the day that Lightwave is truly unified!

egearbox
03-30-2013, 11:10 PM
Documentation and examples. Show me how to make a car crash with Bullet Dynamics. Show me how to make a character jump up and down with Genoma. MORE EXAMPLES PLEASE! What good is having 10,000 options if you have no idea how to set them to get the result you want?

Now that I've got that off my chest, the documentation has improved HUGELY already - we just need you to keep going with it!

OFF
03-30-2013, 11:15 PM
Yes, we need a good tutorial base that explains step by step solution.

Surrealist.
03-31-2013, 12:48 AM
All of the little stupid things. Like inadequate undo in Layout, still no selection undo in Modeler - or Layout. Just all of the little things. Improve the dope sheet, give it a better interface, proper undos, I mean LightWave is full of all kinds of small things, even the edit bone tools still don't have undos - unless I am mistaken. FIX SELECTION IN LAYOUT. When you hover the mouse over an item in a complex scene - YOU CAN SELECT [email protected][email protected]#$%^&*

I mean, just.... put some attention on all of the little annoying things that you run into every day. A new manipulator in Layout. Something you can actually SEE! Ability to select something and hit Sift A in perspective just like you can in an ortho. What is with the little center on icon? Being still, in 2013, the only way you can center around a selection in Layout when in perspective, and then uncheck it just to be able to navigate normally.

Most of these things are just sooooo bad they are embarrassing.

Or just go along as things are add all of the sexy big things that will attract people over from other packages only to be miffed that the simplest little things do not not exist in LightWave like they have not existed for 20 years! With no change. Meanwhile the rest of the world moved on a decade ago.

In a word, have some respect for your costumers. Fix these little annoying, missing simple functions that will make everyone's work easier in LightWave.

Balance these things with the bigger picture on features.

Please.

JonW
03-31-2013, 01:54 AM
Coloured text for Layer Names in Modeler.

When you get a few hundred layers for an architectural model & a few objects open at a time, even with good administration, a few hundred rows of black text, & with a vertical monitor to see more at a time, all black text is simply painful!


PS. You are pushing LWCad, Modeler needs to lift its game!

jeric_synergy
03-31-2013, 10:37 AM
Coloured text for Layer Names in Modeler. !
I should dig up that mockup of a better Layers Panel. The Layers Panel COULD be a huge asset, but It Is Not.

Snosrap
03-31-2013, 10:56 AM
Ability to select something and hit Shift A in perspective just like you can in an ortho. You can in 11.5. :)

probiner
03-31-2013, 09:06 PM
Threads like this are such a big wishful-thinking bait, ah(!) you baiters :D

Here are my 3 big things that I hope that fold into the "silly" long listed solutions and longshots :D
Image instead of text, so I can update content longer than the forum post editing capabilities.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/143766132/Forums/NewTek/NT_NewStuff.png

Rendering is not in my list, since it has been getting lots of love and many other folks have a sharper notion of what is missing still.
Also I would personally leave painting and sculpting to 3rd party dedicated apps. It's nice to have such tools in the main modeling/rendering app and fix things right there to the camera, like in Modo, but... like in Modo, they tend to be quite limited when compared to the dedicated sculpting and painting apps.

Cheers

For kicks... :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_6jDPTokXs



But NT, most important... stick around :)

safetyman
04-01-2013, 07:48 AM
All of the little stupid things. Like inadequate undo in Layout, still no selection undo in Modeler - or Layout. Just all of the little things. Improve the dope sheet, give it a better interface, proper undos, I mean LightWave is full of all kinds of small things, even the edit bone tools still don't have undos - unless I am mistaken. FIX SELECTION IN LAYOUT. When you hover the mouse over an item in a complex scene - YOU CAN SELECT [email protected][email protected]#$%^&*

I mean, just.... put some attention on all of the little annoying things that you run into every day. A new manipulator in Layout. Something you can actually SEE! Ability to select something and hit Sift A in perspective just like you can in an ortho. What is with the little center on icon? Being still, in 2013, the only way you can center around a selection in Layout when in perspective, and then uncheck it just to be able to navigate normally.

Most of these things are just sooooo bad they are embarrassing.

Or just go along as things are add all of the sexy big things that will attract people over from other packages only to be miffed that the simplest little things do not not exist in LightWave like they have not existed for 20 years! With no change. Meanwhile the rest of the world moved on a decade ago.

In a word, have some respect for your costumers. Fix these little annoying, missing simple functions that will make everyone's work easier in LightWave.

Balance these things with the bigger picture on features.

Please.

I agree wholeheartedly, especially with fixing the undos. I never realized how valuable such a simple thing like selection undo was (since LW never had it, I guess I didn't know what I was missing). How many times have you made a complex selection, then needed to select just one more thing, but you missed and selected a whole bunch of stuff you didn't need and had to start over? Don't say it hasn't happened.

jeric_synergy
04-01-2013, 12:31 PM
It is pretty ridiculous. I mean, why not have a scrolling PANEL of Selections, a Selection History, that has a user-definable depth?

Not only would this automatically provide an Undo, it could also ease making Selection Sets and Parts. Each line in the history could include a "Make Selection Set" and "Make Part" icon.

(I think it's also INCREDIBLY lame that there's no "MAKE NEW PART" in the dropdown for selecting parts in the Stats window, similar to the "<new map>" and "<load image>" options in the Maps and Image dropdowns. C'mon guys, use your own damn UI conventions!!!)

How much RAM would such a history consume? Oh yeah, WE DON'T CARE, because it could be user-definable.

blackmondy
04-01-2013, 01:46 PM
Animatable weight-maps.

erikals
04-01-2013, 01:50 PM
Animatable weight-maps.

that'd actually be great in combination with dynamics, i'm just not sure if it is possible...

jeric_synergy
04-01-2013, 01:54 PM
Animatable weight-maps.
There's an interesting UI challenge!

But could you expand on the utility of such a feature?

Surrealist.
04-02-2013, 03:35 AM
I agree wholeheartedly, especially with fixing the undos. I never realized how valuable such a simple thing like selection undo was (since LW never had it, I guess I didn't know what I was missing). How many times have you made a complex selection, then needed to select just one more thing, but you missed and selected a whole bunch of stuff you didn't need and had to start over? Don't say it hasn't happened.

Oh Believe me..... it has....:hey: And yeah, coming back to LightWave for a recent project that required it, had me cussing quite often.

And these things unfixed have not been for a lack of a "feature request section", nor our involvement in it.

Oct 2008 - me:


Sometimes you hit something, the mouse moves or whatever and oops you just lassoed the wrong few polygons. But they are connected to other polygons you or are in a tight spot or whatever and it is more difficult to remove those polygons or simply put if you mess that up and get it wrong then do the operation you have to do it all over again. So to be safe you start again.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?89823-Selection-ACTION-Memory

Lets see, we have been complaining about this as long as I have been around - this go - since 2005. That's only 8 years.

Some famous threads and quotes over the years:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?40086-Rehide-Reselect-Mirror-selection

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?74956-Wow-the-undo-feature-sucks!

2005 Captian Obvious:


Selections aren't undone by undo. That is downright rubbish.

I mean.... do we really need to still be here asking for these simple stupid. I mean really stupid things that are so flipin' obvious?

To say embarrassing is being kind.

Strip away the shiny wrappings of Bullet and Genoma, we still have some of the most arcane and insane things in LightWave that I can only guess would be 1000 times easier to address than an entire new code, much less a particle system. If they are willing to put resources to a brand new rigging system in Modeler How about addressing something more mundane issues?

There is a long list of things. But the list of really simple stupid ones is really short and ought to be jumped on unless they want to loose customers before they even get them:


Wow. This makes me think Lightwave is probably not the right program for me after all. I mean, I even hate programs when they only have undos but no visual history, but not having undos for lots of things that you do is just absurd in 2013.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?132760-What-s-the-deal-with-the-poor-undo-and-reset-capabilities

And sorry to be so negative and harsh.... but really.... it is that bad.

Now that there is a new plan I think that it would be a good idea to stop and re-assess some of the things that were probably put off because core would have addressed them automatically. Now that LightWave of old is here to stay, I think it is time to fix this short list before moving on.

My opinion.

PS: if you really can Shift A in Layout now in 11.5 it proves that these things are possible and really.... no excuses!

erikals
04-02-2013, 04:00 AM
2005 Captian Obvious:

Selections aren't undone by undo. That is downright rubbish.

i gave this some thought, and no, i don't want it to be part of the regular undo.
i'd rather have it be part of it's own "selection-history" list...

just like MentalFish QuickSelectionSet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VvUq5rhVN4
only automatic instead...

erikals
04-02-2013, 05:29 AM
tested something, AutoSaveSelection hack >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?134760-AHK-AutoSaveSelectionTest&p=1313491#post1313491

Hail
04-02-2013, 09:30 AM
Oh Believe me..... it has....:hey: And yeah, coming back to LightWave for a recent project that required it, had me cussing quite often.

And these things unfixed have not been for a lack of a "feature request section", nor our involvement in it.

Oct 2008 - me:



http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?89823-Selection-ACTION-Memory

Lets see, we have been complaining about this as long as I have been around - this go - since 2005. That's only 8 years.

Some famous threads and quotes over the years:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?40086-Rehide-Reselect-Mirror-selection

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?74956-Wow-the-undo-feature-sucks!

2005 Captian Obvious:



I mean.... do we really need to still be here asking for these simple stupid. I mean really stupid things that are so flipin' obvious?

To say embarrassing is being kind.

Strip away the shiny wrappings of Bullet and Genoma, we still have some of the most arcane and insane things in LightWave that I can only guess would be 1000 times easier to address than an entire new code, much less a particle system. If they are willing to put resources to a brand new rigging system in Modeler How about addressing something more mundane issues?

There is a long list of things. But the list of really simple stupid ones is really short and ought to be jumped on unless they want to loose customers before they even get them:


http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?132760-What-s-the-deal-with-the-poor-undo-and-reset-capabilities

And sorry to be so negative and harsh.... but really.... it is that bad.

Now that there is a new plan I think that it would be a good idea to stop and re-assess some of the things that were probably put off because core would have addressed them automatically. Now that LightWave of old is here to stay, I think it is time to fix this short list before moving on.

My opinion.

PS: if you really can Shift A in Layout now in 11.5 it proves that these things are possible and really.... no excuses!

Yeah.. this is just bull-crap!
To have a software in 2013 without proper undo or history is just outright stupid and dumb(leaves me wondering what kind of a genius may have designed that)
I have also had a fair share of frustration from working with the near to non existant undo system in lw and it depresses me:(

I hope they'll fix it soon, otherwise Modo 'll be looking interesting again.

KevinL
04-02-2013, 12:02 PM
A much more robust system for handling reference images in Modeler. Setups for viewports remembered with object (maybe as a sidecar?) image settings and scaling/postion recalled as well.

jeric_synergy
04-02-2013, 03:18 PM
In Modeler, assuming the current division, I'd like each Surface sample cube/sphere to have its own size, if desired.

TMK, the sample cube size is Global, which is really not very flexible or useful for every Surface.

prometheus
04-02-2013, 04:19 PM
In Modeler, assuming the current division, I'd like each Surface sample cube/sphere to have its own size, if desired.

TMK, the sample cube size is Global, which is really not very flexible or useful for every Surface.


You donīt mean the surface editor preview do you?, you have next to display the options button, click on that and change sample size to what you want, so it is fully adjustable.
edit....hmm..you might mean something different.

Michael

jeric_synergy
04-02-2013, 10:45 PM
Prom, I mean the sample size is GLOBAL, all Surfaces use the same size.

BUT, since Surfaces are used on widely varying sized areas, it would be more useful if each used an appropriate sized sample.

vncnt
04-03-2013, 12:40 AM
LWS referencing for proper version management and NLE style keyframe handling (Motion Mixer Deluxe!).

dsol
04-03-2013, 03:18 AM
LWS referencing for proper version management and NLE style keyframe handling (Motion Mixer Deluxe!).

Here here! Referencing done right would be a killer feature for a future version of Lightwave. I'd love to be able to link to external assets, but also have the option, when creating those external scenes, to set which attributes in those scenes are accessible (by default) for animation when loaded into master scenes. So if you created a fully rigged character in a scene, you could just mark the control sliders/nulls as "accessible externally". Then when you load it into a master scene, you can animate straight away without cluttering your scene editor with all the other gunk associated with it. Oh - and all animation done in the master scene is saved in the master scene. The referenced asset is not changed, so it can re-used in other scenes.

As for key framing, I'd love to see an After Effects-style timeline. With nice clear blocks showing the time an object is visible (and easily draggable to start earlier/later). Right now, if you want an object to disappear on a frame (say, to replace an object with its fractured equivalent for an explosion) you have to key frame dissolves for both objects. I'd love to be able to introduce something more like a video editing paradigm in there, it'd be faster to work with and easier to understand.

souzou
04-03-2013, 05:45 AM
As for key framing, I'd love to see an After Effects-style timeline. With nice clear blocks showing the time an object is visible (and easily draggable to start earlier/later). Right now, if your want an object to disappear on a frame (say, to replace an object with its fractured equivalent for an explosion) you have to key frame dissolves for both objects. I'd love to be able to introduce something more like a video editing paradigm in there, it'd be faster to work with and easier to understand.

+1 This would save so much time. The current process for using dissolves is a PITA, particularly if you have to do it to a big group of objects.

Dodgy
04-03-2013, 06:29 AM
Bizarrely I know, I have worked in Maya and it has undoable selections, and I actually preferred LW and its lack of undo selections, as backtracking through selections was soooo very tedious. Imagine selecting dozens of points and then undo it one by one (or a few by a few). It's helped in LW by the fact that it's actually quite hard to deselect things, you have to click on a clear bit of UI or press the deselect key, and if you do an operation, then undo it brings back your selection (most of the time, there are one or two exceptions).

Again in Layout, I don't miss undoes everywhere THAT much, the notable exceptions being copying and pasting surface settings, which has caught me a cropper a few times. Ideally I'd like to see undo stacked per panel, so if you're in the Layout main window, that only undoes layout operations, and being in the surface editor only undoes surface changes. So, I'm not against it, but I haven't found it horrible working this way.

geo_n
04-03-2013, 07:03 AM
There are some operations in layout that would be great to have undo. Can't recall most of them but one is assigning stuff or doing stuff that doesn't have an undo like parenting x object y object. Small things like this could use undo.

edit. a lot of bone tools need undo.

erikals
04-03-2013, 07:12 AM
Bizarrely I know, I have worked in Maya and it has undoable selections, and I actually preferred LW and its lack of undo selections, as backtracking through selections was soooo very tedious. Imagine selecting dozens of points and then undo it one by one (or a few by a few). It's helped in LW by the fact that it's actually quite hard to deselect things, you have to click on a clear bit of UI or press the deselect key, and if you do an operation, then undo it brings back your selection (most of the time, there are one or two exceptions).

Again in Layout, I don't miss undoes everywhere THAT much, the notable exceptions being copying and pasting surface settings, which has caught me a cropper a few times. Ideally I'd like to see undo stacked per panel, so if you're in the Layout main window, that only undoes layout operations, and being in the surface editor only undoes surface changes. So, I'm not against it, but I haven't found it horrible working this way.

absolutely!

in Modeler i hardly miss it, the bad thing is when i select something complex, maybe for 2 minutes, then by mistake i hit a blank area in the Modeler UI. (agh!) > Selection lost... (been testing a auto-save-selection method, looks to work ok, need to look more into it though...)

selections should not be part of the undo function, but rather part of auto-saved selection sets.

in Layout, it's not that bad, but it should be better.

at times, the good thing about having less undos is that we learn to make less mistakes, work more efficiently.

safetyman
04-03-2013, 07:36 AM
Well, to be sure, undo-ing selections is not a deal breaker, but I find it provides that little something extra and less frustrating than not having it.

erikals
04-03-2013, 07:46 AM
maybe it also could be an option you can set in Modeler...

evenflcw
04-03-2013, 07:50 AM
A proper undo would have stack object with enough metadata to distinguish selection operations from meshedit operations and other. Built and supported well by the gui you could be able to filter away selection operations, or maybe even have a separate stack for selections. So you can have them when you need them, and not have them when you dont want them. Examples of what such an object should contain is what operation was performed (tool name), tool settings, who initiated it (script or user; this comes with allowing grouping operations), etc. Really there is no reason to not save as much as possible, as most of it will be trivial in cost compared to storing the previous mesh state or whatnot - so might aswell make the most of it.

erikals
04-03-2013, 07:52 AM
A proper undo would have stack object with enough metadata to distinguish selection operations from meshedit operations and other. Built and supported well by the gui you could be able to filter away selection operations, or maybe even have a separate stack for selections.

yes, agreed.

probiner
04-03-2013, 09:42 AM
A photoshop history panel style could also speed up going back to a specific point instead of checking each one, be selections or other stuff. I think multi-track undo might be open to problems, but they could figure on such history list, color-coded and one could step backward or forward globally or on each color.


By the way, other app with said proper undo system have a limit right?

Cheers

vncnt
04-03-2013, 10:40 AM
As for key framing, I'd love to see an After Effects-style timeline. With nice clear blocks showing the time an object is visible (and easily draggable to start earlier/later). Right now, if you want an object to disappear on a frame (say, to replace an object with its fractured equivalent for an explosion) you have to key frame dissolves for both objects. I'd love to be able to introduce something more like a video editing paradigm in there, it'd be faster to work with and easier to understand.

I donīt know how that looks but I would like to see non-destructive region remapping for referenced LWS files.
Like a rubber band, interpolating between markers. Different for each region, defined by their two markers.

Also: markers (and their label) should be more visible on the timeline and easier to handle (move/duplicate/delete/edit/import/export/group/ungroup).

Fast search in very long Object/Bone lists.

A thick pencil to add/clear simple visual remarks per frame in the Camera viewport.

jeric_synergy
04-03-2013, 12:12 PM
FWIW, I rarely use any of the advanced features of Photoshop's UNDO. The only thing I do is go back multiple steps.

Maybe that makes me a rubbish user, but FWIW it speaks to the amount of coding effort that should be budgeted to the various UNDO features. "Don't let the ideal be the enemy of the good."

In modeler, Selection Undo can serve double duty as "a better Selection Sets" feature, since it's so painless to integrate the two. (Getting closer to making the mockup.... ;) )

IMO separate Undo histories might be easiest to implement, and the most useful to users.

One for motion(s),
one for Surfaces,
one for Selections in both Layout and LWM.

and possibly more.

Hail
04-03-2013, 12:16 PM
A proper undo would have stack object with enough metadata to distinguish selection operations from meshedit operations and other. Built and supported well by the gui you could be able to filter away selection operations, or maybe even have a separate stack for selections. So you can have them when you need them, and not have them when you dont want them. Examples of what such an object should contain is what operation was performed (tool name), tool settings, who initiated it (script or user; this comes with allowing grouping operations), etc. Really there is no reason to not save as much as possible, as most of it will be trivial in cost compared to storing the previous mesh state or whatnot - so might aswell make the most of it.

CORE had it all but was cancelled which is what makes me sick and sad.. and the more I think about it the more I get angry at the old geezers on this board who thought core wasn't lightwavy enough, well.. here we are.. still bogged with the same old pitiful workflows/issues core was meant to address from the very beginning.
Just imagine where core would have been by now if it was continued.:(

dsol
04-03-2013, 12:54 PM
I donīt know how that looks but I would like to see non-destructive region remapping for referenced LWS files.
Like a rubber band, interpolating between markers. Different for each region, defined by their two markers.

Also: markers (and their label) should be more visible on the timeline and easier to handle (move/duplicate/delete/edit/import/export/group/ungroup).

Here's how the timeline looks in After Effects - if a layer is trimmed so the outpoint cuts it off, it isn't rendered beyond that point (it's basically an edit). Lots of useful organisational metaphors here that would benefit organising animations in LW!

113270

dsol
04-03-2013, 12:59 PM
Just imagine where core would have been by now if it was continued.:(

Realistically? I don't think it would have been continued. I don't think NT could keep throwing money at it any longer. They had to ship something and get more cash coming through. CORE was still at least a year or two from being a usable app. When it was cancelled it was still at a pre-alpha stage - and was very bugged (crashed constantly).

Let's see what LW12 brings - I'm hoping a lot of CORE tech is going to surface there (we've seen glimmers in LW11 cycle with Python and the new Modelling tools)

prometheus
04-03-2013, 01:03 PM
Realistically? I don't think it would have been continued. I don't think NT could keep throwing money at it any longer. They had to ship something and get more cash coming through. CORE was still at least a year or two from being a usable app. When it was cancelled it was still at a pre-alpha stage - and was very bugged (crashed constantly).

Let's see what LW12 brings - I'm hoping a lot of CORE tech is going to surface there (we've seen glimmers in LW11 cycle with Python and the new Modelling tools)

Agree with you too here..
core crashing ..a lot of native other lightave tools missing and a much too alien UI from what was Lightwave, wasnīt necessary to make it so alien.
Even though I myself and others complain about core tools still not have been implemented, I thought the new direction was the way to go.

hrgiger
04-03-2013, 01:11 PM
Realistically? I don't think it would have been continued. I don't think NT could keep throwing money at it any longer. They had to ship something and get more cash coming through. CORE was still at least a year or two from being a usable app. When it was cancelled it was still at a pre-alpha stage - and was very bugged (crashed constantly).



When CORE would be a usable app wasn't really that relevant since it was being shipped alongside Modeler and Layout, not as a replacement for them. It was to be that way until it could replace much of modeler and Layouts functionality.

jeric_synergy
04-03-2013, 01:17 PM
I wish all references to CORE were automatically deleted from the forum and replaced with discussions of the 1955 World Series, which is just about as current.

Or Narnia, which is also a fantasy. :P

kfinla
04-03-2013, 05:37 PM
My 2 requests would be,
1. better deformation control - like the layered folders in modo
2. Making selections in modeler - especially on a mesh over 100K polys is dog slow - unless this changed in 11.5? And modelling is basically nothing but adding and dropping selections.

Cageman
04-03-2013, 06:53 PM
Deformations are just slow in LightWave period.

With the new meshsystem, currently limited to the new tools in Modeler, that stuff will be solved...

Ryan Roye
04-03-2013, 07:23 PM
ANIMATION:

I want fully customizable bezier curve presets that I can apply to keyframes. Currently, if you want to do a very clean bezier "S" curve (slowly ease in, sharp middle, slowly ease out), you have to either use some rather unorthodox methods to do it (I copy/paste keyframes from nulls with bezier presets on them) or tediously go through all 6 position/rotation channels and manipulate all those handlers.

This would be especially useful for people who work with a lot of logo graphics, or for achieving very smooth camerawork. TCB doesn't give you the same level of control that a bezier curve does in that area.

probiner
04-03-2013, 07:52 PM
ANIMATION:

I want fully customizable bezier curve presets that I can apply to keyframes. Currently, if you want to do a very clean bezier "S" curve (slowly ease in, sharp middle, slowly ease out), you have to either use some rather unorthodox methods to do it (I copy/paste keyframes from nulls with bezier presets on them) or tediously go through all 6 position/rotation channels and manipulate all those handlers.

This would be especially useful for people who work with a lot of logo graphics, or for achieving very smooth camerawork. TCB doesn't give you the same level of control that a bezier curve does in that area.
+1
Bezier keyframes need a complete overhaul since this (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?126769-Fix-Bezier-Interpolation-when-stretched-in-Graph-Editor) renders them straight useless.
Meaning, the handles are stuck, so any movement of the keyframes or scalling, will lead you into a lot of troubles. Such doesn't happen for example in Softimage or even After Effects where the handles update.

As for the presets and ease-in/ease-out by default is also something I've been pushing, as you can see here (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?134617-What-would-you-like-to-see-improved-in-LightWave-over-next-few-versions&p=1313187&viewfull=1#post1313187) (second and last point on the Animation section), here (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?133963-Anyone-doing-trials-on-Adobe-Edge-Animate) and here (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?134777-Incoming-TCB-key-Tension) with respective FogBugz (https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?58910_qeh8ks9j1l7eg44i). This last one would allow ease-in, ease-outs with TCB by default at least. Fingers crossed :)

Cheers

Nicolas Jordan
04-03-2013, 09:28 PM
Why are Clip Maps still under Object Properties in Layout. Clip maps need to be stored with the object file as a surface property not in the scene file that can only be applied on a per object basis. The current method of applying clip maps in Lightwave drives me nuts! Doing Arch Viz stuff I'm constantly using Clip Maps for trees and people etc.

Please implement Clip Maps/Stencil Maps in the Surface Editor.

VermilionCat
04-03-2013, 10:02 PM
agree on clip map. A little option besides transparency channel would be nice.

Dodgy
04-03-2013, 10:33 PM
I'm not a big fan of bezier keyframes for one simple reason, it's so faffy to get a space which is almost stopped but not quite. With TCB I just select all the keys I want and set T to .8 or .9. With Beziers you have to drag the handles up or down depending on how the key relates to keys around it, and basically means editing each one one by one... Arrgh... Okay if you need them fair enough, but I much prefer TCB.

For this reason I'd like to see the TCB tool fixed so it only affects keys already on the object, at the moment it adds more keys to those channels which don't have them, making it pretty much useless.

OFF
04-03-2013, 11:25 PM
About Clip Map - maybe add the option - connect transparency channel from the SE with Clip Map in Obj.properties as connected Bump and Displacement?

erikals
04-03-2013, 11:34 PM
hrgiger
Deformations are just slow in LightWave period.

Cageman
With the new meshsystem, currently limited to the new tools in Modeler, that stuff will be solved...

erik
Yeeey!! http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

---

djwaterman
04-04-2013, 02:06 AM
I would like to see a scroll bar included into any place where you get a long list of things, the scene editor or camera lens selections for example. That list window would stay open while you find what you need and select it, and then it would have a kill button to close it again, or something like that. It could even have a search facility and a way of organizing the list into categories or folders.

vncnt
04-04-2013, 03:30 AM
I'd like to see that Modeler Rename Map command would also rename the weightmaps for the Skelegons.

blackmondy
04-04-2013, 05:09 AM
There's an interesting UI challenge!

But could you expand on the utility of such a feature?

- Animating bone influence on mesh by moving the weight-maps.

- Particles adherence and movement based on moving weight-maps.

- Converting procedural textures to weight-maps for animated displacement.

- Use in conjunction with morph and deformations. For example fall-off areas are less affected by morphs and deformations.

One fine example of animating weight-maps with gradual increase of fall-off over time would be a spaceship getting by a laser canon. Explosion occurs and fire will appear and spread with it's intensity based on the movement of the weight-maps.

It's a mouthful but that is as clear as I can muster lol....

dsol
04-04-2013, 06:02 AM
Why are Clip Maps still under Object Properties in Layout. Clip maps need to be stored with the object file as a surface property not in the scene file that can only be applied on a per object basis. The current method of applying clip maps in Lightwave drives me nuts! Doing Arch Viz stuff I'm constantly using Clip Maps for trees and people etc.

Please implement Clip Maps/Stencil Maps in the Surface Editor.

This wouldn't be a problem if they moved to a unified format for objects and scenes. So LWOs just become "mini LWS" files containing meshes, but also having the option of containing lights, bones, clip maps, displacements. Everything you would logically associate with an "object" in a 3D scene. Ready to be loaded in to a master LWS scene.

Nicolas Jordan
04-04-2013, 07:01 AM
This wouldn't be a problem if they moved to a unified format for objects and scenes. So LWOs just become "mini LWS" files containing meshes, but also having the option of containing lights, bones, clip maps, displacements. Everything you would logically associate with an "object" in a 3D scene. Ready to be loaded in to a master LWS scene.

I think having the Clip Maps only being able to be applied on a per object level is the problem. They really need to be applied on a per surface level. A Clip Map entry should be added into the Surface Editor and Surface Node.

vncnt
04-04-2013, 07:44 AM
In Layout I would like a fullscreen interactive viewport on a second computer screen.

Oh, and an Undocked Preview Window that doesn't need to be closed to continue refining the animation.

skype6
04-04-2013, 07:50 AM
I read these posts and I agree with all of you! Maybe a little more work on basic things like the stability of the software, speed ... Separated modeler or connected I don't mind, I'd learned. Hypervoxels remained the same, and there's room for innovation. Better particle system . Bullet need better physics and multi trading .. a little better organization in the node editor, maybe some presets, the distribution by colors? Undocked vpr window, would be interesting! Only ideas ... and I agree with djwaterman, scroll bar would be very useful.

prometheus
04-04-2013, 08:09 AM
In Layout I would like a fullscreen interactive viewport on a second computer screen.

Oh, and an Undocked Preview Window that doesn't need to be closed to continue refining the animation.

I think Ivé been mentioning that for quite some time..at least for vpr, and to introduce a module preview module panel, like viper or fprime in order to have it respect the exact camera resolution, and also
not interfering with the " work area" which the viewports basicly are.

Viper also has a more faster and direct way of making a preview and then play preview directly, than how we have to set it up with codec requesters for the VPR, so something like viper, but for VPR.

Michael

Netvudu
04-04-2013, 09:08 AM
If we donīt get Alembic pretty soon weīll be "out of the loop" in no time.

hrgiger
04-04-2013, 01:21 PM
I wish all references to CORE were automatically deleted from the forum and replaced with discussions of the 1955 World Series, which is just about as current.



Despite how people felt about the CORE application as it stood, I think at the very least it has been a catalyst and direction for LightWave development. We now enjoy VPR, bullet dynamics, instancing, python, all as a result of the work done on the CORE application. It also shows that LightWave as it stands now, is in need of serious mesh handling performance which CORE showed great promise in. We also saw a modeling workplane, interactive modeling tools, as well as animatable modeling operations. You could even use lights and cameras as dynamic items in bullet simulations which was kind of fun. Most importantly we had the foundation for an application which was based on a scene graph that was to allow the user to drive any property of one item by another. Even though CORE is no longer developed as a standalone, it is certainly more relevant then the 1955 World Series. I don't even like sports.

Surrealist.
04-04-2013, 10:39 PM
Hmmmm.... CORE.

There was nothing wrong at all with the development of CORE in my opinion. It is was just the time frame and the agreements. Right thing to do, wrong way to go about it and it hurt LightWave in the long run. Shooting themselves in the foot basically.

The better choice in my opinion hindsight 20/20 would be to have started out with smaller expectations on the short run and simply start development on a smaller side app. Something that had finished features that could plug into LightWave. The trick here would be to decide what those features would be. And one idea would be a dynamics application based on a new mesh system with instancing, and bullet and so on. Perhaps an environment where you could simply send your scene data from LightWave, do some dynamics, particles and rendering. But rather than it running along LightWave like core was, it would be a finished feature app. In other words, it could actually render something useful as a final product in the pipeline. Not an endless beta promise. And then also accept scene data via fbx collada and other interchange formats.

And with this as a basic starting point, over time, more and more features would be added. In a sense that is kind of where they wound up anyway. But I think had they concentrated efforts to make it a viable product first in its small way, it could have made sense. And money could have been generated from yearly upgrades.

Kind of the reverse of MODO, start with the end of the pipeline in a new mesh and rendering environment, gradually add character animation and work back to mesh generation and modeling. Something that would be useful not only to the LightWave base but other pipelines too.

Not sure about the practicality of this or what actual features would make sense.

Just hindsight musing.

Ztreem
04-05-2013, 01:41 AM
Better memory management!
I have a scene here at work with two big machines both with around 1000 parts each. In C4D that we use to do the animation it takes up around 2 Gb of RAM when the scene is loaded. In lightwave it doesn't even load, it eats up all 8Gb of ram in my computer and crashes. I was able to load one of the machines if I loaded the obj file as one layer, but it took up over 6Gb of RAM and C4D can load more than two of these objects and still just use around 2 Gb of RAM. C4D also loads the obj files a lot faster, I would say that it's more than 10 times faster in loading the same object. Lightwave needs to step up in this area.

Rendering wise I still think that LW beats C4D in most aspects.

GandB
04-05-2013, 07:39 AM
:phone_cal
psst.....game development

Simon-S
04-05-2013, 08:22 AM
I'd like to see edge smoothing thats based on actual edges rather than surfaces. Its about time Newtek caught up with the rest of the 3d apps out there.

zapper1998
04-05-2013, 09:45 AM
Better memory management!
I have a scene here at work with two big machines both with around 1000 parts each. In C4D that we use to do the animation it takes up around 2 Gb of RAM when the scene is loaded. In lightwave it doesn't even load, it eats up all 8Gb of ram in my computer and crashes. I was able to load one of the machines if I loaded the obj file as one layer, but it took up over 6Gb of RAM and C4D can load more than two of these objects and still just use around 2 Gb of RAM. C4D also loads the obj files a lot faster, I would say that it's more than 10 times faster in loading the same object. Lightwave needs to step up in this area.

Rendering wise I still think that LW beats C4D in most aspects.

Totally agree on the Memory Management...

:)

roctavian
04-05-2013, 12:42 PM
Better memory management!
I have a scene here at work with two big machines both with around 1000 parts each. In C4D that we use to do the animation it takes up around 2 Gb of RAM when the scene is loaded. In lightwave it doesn't even load, it eats up all 8Gb of ram in my computer and crashes. I was able to load one of the machines if I loaded the obj file as one layer, but it took up over 6Gb of RAM and C4D can load more than two of these objects and still just use around 2 Gb of RAM. C4D also loads the obj files a lot faster, I would say that it's more than 10 times faster in loading the same object. Lightwave needs to step up in this area.

This.




Rendering wise I still think that LW beats C4D in most aspects.

Even so, having bucket rendering would not hurt.

dsol
04-05-2013, 01:08 PM
Even so, having bucket rendering would not hurt.

Given the rather significant engineering overhaul this would necessitate, why do you think you need this? The current scanline renderer already threads very efficiently. Micro-poly displacement? Surely there's more pressing and immediate problems with LW that need addressing. Like a working undo system!

roctavian
04-05-2013, 05:32 PM
I don`t know how major the changes might be. I`m not a programmer, so I don`t have the expertise to say that.
I`m only hopping this way you can render more with less. LWSN is pretty strong in that respect, but even so, it might help. Maybe being able to render bigger images than others might be an advantage.
I would even say that`ll be nice to have LWSN being able to cache on HDD/SSD like FPrime.
Also, everyone`s personal agenda might differ. For me the undo system is not that important.

ncr100
04-08-2013, 01:17 AM
A "Command Search" feature, like Spotlight on Mac or 11.5's real-time Node Editor plugin search, so you can quickly access >all< plugins / commands by substring.

Would show a list of commands matching the typed-in word. Faster than navigating through the tab to any button. Display plugins not configured to be visible in your Menu. Also useful for hotkey reference.

Hail
04-08-2013, 01:33 AM
A "Command Search" feature, like Spotlight on Mac or 11.5's real-time Node Editor plugin search, so you can quickly access >all< plugins / commands by substring.

Would show a list of commands matching the typed-in word. Faster than navigating through the tab to any button. Display plugins not configured to be visible in your Menu. Also useful for hotkey reference.

+1!
I agree it would be sweet if the utility tab could host a sort of search functionality for quickly running through all the tools and plugins available in lw

prometheus
04-08-2013, 05:31 AM
A "Command Search" feature, like Spotlight on Mac or 11.5's real-time Node Editor plugin search, so you can quickly access >all< plugins / commands by substring.

Would show a list of commands matching the typed-in word. Faster than navigating through the tab to any button. Display plugins not configured to be visible in your Menu. Also useful for hotkey reference.

yes that is sort of houdini way too..use the tab key and enter your text search and it auto lists your commands based on the very first letter you enter and also following subsequently letters.
would be nice.

Michael

dsol
04-08-2013, 06:05 AM
Also, everyone`s personal agenda might differ. For me the undo system is not that important.

It's not a showstopper for me either, but I do think that it hinders wider acceptance and usage of LW amongst potential new customers. It sends out a bad message about the quality of the engineering in your app if it can't even offer something as basic as a working undo system.

Yes, I know there's some great engineering in LW - but I'm talking about external perception here.

tcoursey
04-08-2013, 03:39 PM
New UI. Love Modo's ability to customize, pop ups, pie menus, etc..etc..etc..etc.....there is too much to say. Would love to see LW steal some UI from Modo!

tcoursey
04-08-2013, 03:44 PM
To those that mention Bucket Rendering. Have you not seen a SLAVE setup with Modo. When I gave Modo a shot with our machines I had 64 buckets on one image rendering an F9 image. It was insane. LW has been multithreaded in rendering from day one, but almost everything else is single threaded. Try doing a slice on a large poly object, pull up CPU usage....yup, not much activity there! lol. I digress....

The bucket rendering on multiple machines was impressive. It was like having a personal network render farm for my F9 render. Didn't have to send to a seperate farm, just press F9 and all nodes kick on and take a bucket!

Lewis
04-08-2013, 04:03 PM
The bucket rendering on multiple machines was impressive. It was like having a personal network render farm for my F9 render. Didn't have to send to a seperate farm, just press F9 and all nodes kick on and take a bucket!

Yep, I've been aksign for new NetworkRendering for quite some time by now, our current SNII is very limited and basic :(.

tcoursey
04-08-2013, 04:10 PM
Yep, I've been aksign for new NetworkRendering for quite some time by now, our current SNII is very limited and basic :(.

Lewis, I will say if you dig around in Luxology forums you'll find that there network rendering doesn't always work and they have some problems, many unhappy users.

I'll admit LW may be old and limited in some ways, but it's SOLID! I guess progress can always introduce issues. Our studio and many others I assume, have invested in 3rd party controllers for network rendering. SNII is a joke. No further development since like 4 or something. Anyway....

Lewis
04-08-2013, 04:19 PM
Lewis, I will say if you dig around in Luxology forums you'll find that there network rendering doesn't always work and they have some problems, many unhappy users.

I'll admit LW may be old and limited in some ways, but it's SOLID! I guess progress can always introduce issues. Our studio and many others I assume, have invested in 3rd party controllers for network rendering. SNII is a joke. No further development since like 4 or something. Anyway....

I understand that but it's not great with SNII either, it's not workign properly everytime, not even been able to scan all machines at first go (most of time it needs 2,3,4 scanns to pickup all machines). Sometime radiosity cache is hard to export properly, sometime IES lights don't get written proerly into scene file as relative paths but abolsute (or wqiht too many \\\) so nodes don't see them, etc. etc.. we have our share of problems evne in this "basic" state so i'd still rather have feature rich with some quirks than feature less with quirks :D.

Red_Oddity
04-09-2013, 03:38 AM
Adding to my working undo/history wish :
One improvement i hope some day might come is that LW under the hood moves to a DAG structure for all data.
Also, shading should be decoupled from the object storage method it now uses (or at least make shader storage in scenes a possibility), that coupled with referencing would fix a lot of problems for us (Alembic and Realflow are 2 cases that would become much more viable to use in LW)

SonicN2O
04-09-2013, 12:17 PM
THREE WORDS:
FLUIDS/FLUID DYNAMICS

also, fullscreen preview with the surface editor, a modifier stack sort of thing, and some native GPU support.

prometheus
04-09-2013, 03:26 PM
THREE WORDS:
FLUIDS/FLUID DYNAMICS

also, fullscreen preview with the surface editor, a modifier stack sort of thing, and some native GPU support.

fluids..well yeah sort of..at least a semiproffessional liquid particle and mesh solver, sort of blender results or better, donīt expect flowline scanline,naiad or real flow stuff..but at least something to match blender maybe.
REMEMBER...they still (from 2006 or so) havenīt been able to get the infamous distance between particle gradient in there for hypervoxels, so apart from
particles & mesh solvers, a fluid shader like hypervoxels need to have that.
ttp://www.box.net/shared/static/ietmqz76vh.mov

Fluids for fire and smoke is met by the turbulenceFD plugin ..though beeing not native..but still.

full screen preview..well, I can settle for half that size, otherwise that could or should be handled within viper(not vpr)
if it could automaticly connect to a surface render with a spherical or cubic dummy shape, instead of the need to set up object or scene for it and cam render first.

I would better yet see a VPR button that opens a panel like viper, and from that...options to set custom camera resolutions or preset resolutions, and this will respect camera resolution too as viperīs small enhancements did a while ago.
Include saving and replaying previews instantly without the current codec and make preview hazzle in the same manner as viper and it would be awesome, and you can collapse dock it or expand as needed, or have it opened and still being able to work in All four viewports..which you canīt do today, this would be optional with a button next to the other vpr buttons...and you can still work with vpr as before if you would want that.

Michael

vncnt
04-16-2013, 03:41 AM
For my current character animation project I'd like to have the "OpenGL Overlay" option, like in VPR mode, to hide the controls that drive to the body rig and face rig.

To have a clear view on the character itself in fast OpenGL mode.
VPR is simply too slow for checking motion.
This option is also useful for Make Preview.

Now I'm doing some lip-sync I'm using the Alt + LMBdrag of earlier keyframes a lot to get a hold phase for the particular controller.
The keyframes on the Dope Track look all the same.
Would be very convenient to have a different color for keyframes that are an exact copy of the previous keyframe. For as long they're unchanged.

One of my biggest wishes is to have marked frame ranges in the Dope Track that have some meaning to the animator + can be moved/stretched in time.
Like permanent multiple selection ranges in the Dope Sheet.
With user defined marker colors.
This would be awesome for directing.

BTW I don't understand why Make Preview is capable of also writing the audio while the render to AVI can't even use the audio. I also don't understand why compressed AVI, created via Make Preview, looks like an imminent computer crash (RGB coding?). Why Layout is crashing as soon as I try to fiddle with the Make Preview parameters. Why the Feedback Agent can never login into my SMTP Server.

[COFFEE BREAK]

vncnt
04-16-2013, 05:22 AM
A switch in Layout viewports to have a Front/Back/Left/Right/Top/Bottom view that is related to the selected Object/Bone/Light/Camera during activation of that switch.
After characters have been rotated, a global Front/Back/Left/Right/Top/Bottom view is becoming less meaningful.

Not a permanent switch like the "Center View on Current Item". I always keep pressing the shortcut for this command twice.

hrgiger
04-17-2013, 03:51 PM
I would say I would also like to see the following improvements to modeling:

A lattice tool- been wanting this for quite some time now

Good retopo toolset- This is becoming so commonplace, its about time we started adding them to LightWave. An auto topo solution with the ability to sketch in rough polyflow like in 3D Coat would be most welcome.

Sticky keys- not modeling specific but the ability to hold down a key, perform an action and let up on the key and be reverted back to prior tool would be a most welcome workflow enhancement ( think being in move mode and holding down the Y key, rotating an object, let up on the Y key and be back in Move mode)

Gizmos for deformation tools like bend, taper, twist, etc.....

Surrealist.
04-18-2013, 12:16 AM
My take on it has always been a universal Gizmo - like everyplace else.... sigh....

Proper snapping
Custom workplanes
Universal Soft Selection

If they just put those things into the interface and did nothing else if would handle so many things right away. With a good snapping to surface you have retopo using all of the existing tools.

But it would all have to be reworked for that to happen.... oh well... probably not going to happen.

For those who have not used it, think of sticky keys like how the Alt navigation works. It is basically a sticky key in that it overrides the tool you are working on for that moment and tumbles the view. As soon as you let go, you are back to the Move tool for instance with LMB drag. If nav was a true sticky key you could also tap Alt and it would stay in tumble mode until you tapped another key like T for move. Hold it down as mentioned to override temporarily.

vncnt
04-18-2013, 04:14 AM
Currently stretching / moving in time / deleting keyframes in the Scene Editor can only be applied to actual selected keyframes.

We could use a way to modify ALL the children of selected objects in Dope Sheet when only the parents are selected.
Including RMB actions "zoom to selection", "edit in graph editor", etc.

vncnt
04-18-2013, 04:15 AM
Global playback/pause buttons.

Hail
04-18-2013, 07:16 AM
Global playback/pause buttons.

What are those? PBC controls?
Don't we have them in lw already?

vncnt
04-18-2013, 07:55 AM
What are those? PBC controls?
Don't we have them in lw already?

Previous Frame and Next Frame (left arrow and right arrow) don't work in Graph Editor.

Hmm. Seems to be a bug since other windows accept these commands.

vncnt
04-19-2013, 07:09 AM
Bigger GUI text font.
These 27" 2560x1440 displays are exhausting my eyes.

Remoc
04-21-2013, 04:04 AM
Native GPU Rendering.

Or like some 3rd party renderers combine both CPU + GPU for speedy renders!

Time=$

OnlineRender
04-21-2013, 04:06 AM
I thought you can tell LW what font to use for the UI ? so I would assume you can set the size????

jasonwestmas
04-22-2013, 09:42 AM
Can we get a rectangular selection marquee in modeler please? In an app that is used a lot to create rectangular buildings, it's kinda shocking it isn't in there yet. . . .or is it hidden lol? Volume select might be ok if it actually highlighted the points and polys.

Thank you.

erikals
04-22-2013, 09:48 AM
Can we get a rectangular selection marquee in modeler please? In an app that is used a lot to create rectangular buildings, it's kinda shocking it isn't in there yet. . . .or is it hidden lol?

you got the volume select, box selection.

i'd like this though >


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVv-yulP4bQ

jasonwestmas
04-22-2013, 10:27 AM
Yeop, that's exactly how one can select in max. Max has around 6 different selection methods. The lasso tool is more controllable than I thought. Thanks for those tips!

Volume select doesn't highlight selection.

bazsa73
04-22-2013, 11:14 AM
total automation in every aspect and a nice little beer cooler with a neat newtek logo on it which also has a nice little display
which broadcasts short interviews with Rob Powers

tyrot
04-22-2013, 11:19 AM
Ctrl+z !

prometheus
04-22-2013, 01:37 PM
Can we get a rectangular selection marquee in modeler please? In an app that is used a lot to create rectangular buildings, it's kinda shocking it isn't in there yet. . . .or is it hidden lol? Volume select might be ok if it actually highlighted the points and polys.

Thank you.


you got the volume select, box selection.

i

yes..Ive been encouraging Newtek to implement the rectangular marquee for many many versions before, but nothing has happened, donīt know if they are satisfied with the volume select mode, I am not.
The volume select mode is a mode selection, not a selection tool per defination, and as mentioned..it doesnīt highligt the area affected.
Cant be that hard to get in there, just middle click mouse and drag and connect that to a rectangular marquee, as we have in Layout when selecting.

left image..unsteady drunk or nervous hand...with a need to follow through the motion in a circle to select the part affected, right image..just middle click and drag a little to the left..it is safer,faster,more accurate and saves from the strain of having to move the hand too much:)
113801

Michael

prometheus
04-22-2013, 01:50 PM
about lasso tool in photoshop, yes the rubberband lasso tool is useful, I rather simply use the pen tool with paths, and once done tracing area, I right click and make selection from that..works great to uncover parts, maybe
an idea for lightwave too, using splines and option to convert to a selection path.
But not to stray away from the path..a rectangle marquee first please.

Michael

jasonwestmas
04-22-2013, 02:10 PM
Yep, and why not make rectangle selection a middle click and drag like it is in layout. Or provide a toggle option for that.

prometheus
04-22-2013, 02:38 PM
Yep, and why not make rectangle selection a middle click and drag like it is in layout. Or provide a toggle option for that.

Thatīs what I said:D

"Cant be that hard to get in there, just middle click mouse and drag and connect that to a rectangular marquee, as we have in Layout when selecting."

Doctor49152
04-22-2013, 03:33 PM
well I'd like a selection system (3rd party plugin perhaps? if not built in by newtek) to have a numeric panel where you could change selection styles (drag, lines, box, volume, marquee). You could also move the [select Nth] setting into this panel as well as the save selection sets (and save sets for points, polys and edges).

Doctor49152
04-22-2013, 03:54 PM
There are a few things I'd like to see.

Modeller
----------
- some type of master plugin so we can have non-model window support.
- ability to have tear away windows (non-modal would allow this).
- better layer control system
- ptex support
- better UV export and AI import features
- simple VPR render (If you let the user edit the surface settings in modeller you should also let them see what they're actually doing) or at least a more modern surface preview option (no small preview ball anymore)

* final 'must have' is better openGL support. the system gets bogged down too easily. It still feels like the amiga days in some cases. This is one CORE technology that has not been moved over sadly :(

jasonwestmas
04-22-2013, 04:35 PM
Thatīs what I said:D

"Cant be that hard to get in there, just middle click mouse and drag and connect that to a rectangular marquee, as we have in Layout when selecting."

Lol, I must be tired.

vncnt
04-23-2013, 12:56 AM
I thought you can tell LW what font to use for the UI ? so I would assume you can set the size????

That would be nice.
Do you know were I can find this setting?


EDIT:

Ah, found it. Page 266 of the 11.5 PDF (in Win7/64 you must remove the space between "-f" and fontname).

"C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave11.5\bin\Layout.exe" -c"S:\config" -0 -f"Myriad Pro"@14

Scene editor becomes much more accessible. Nice. See attachment for differences.

Unfortunately the colom width is not adjusted so some commands are cut-off.
Especially in case of more extreme font sizes.
Maybe in v12.

vncnt
04-23-2013, 01:04 AM
A keyboard shortcut for AddMarker (Alt+M) and a field that immediately accepts text for that marker.

And keyboard shortcuts to Go to Previous Marker (Ctrl+leftArrow) and Go to Next Marker (Ctrl+rightArrow).

For inspiration, look at Sony Vegas Pro. It has a nice marker and region system that can even handle markers and regions inside media events (like in WAV audio and AVI video files).

vncnt
04-23-2013, 05:00 AM
Action Center = "Selection" for Rotate tool in Layout to rotate a set of Objects around the center.

To be used in cases you can't re-parent.

For example as when blocking, see also:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?135157-Blocking-rotation-of-objects-around-selection-center&p=1317576#post1317576

erikals
04-23-2013, 08:40 AM
Action Center = "Point"

almost like >


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxnacwZdOBo

probiner
04-23-2013, 09:39 AM
He said Layout :p
And that's why it's a bit narrow we ask for a work-plane/snap/action center/axis systems for Modeler only, when both need it. Another point where unification would serve both polygon and item levels.
For what you show the new tools do good. For Layout you don't want to mess around with the pivot just for a transformation.

This falls again into the category: "only way to have a center of rotation in Layout is Parenting" :(

Cheers

prometheus
04-23-2013, 10:06 AM
sigh..thought I should do some particle works again, hits a limit when I want to controll them.

Could we please have a better wind animation path tool, as far as I know the animation path tool works poorly with secondary wind effects such as rotation or wind vectors, and also not working if you would drive velocity in the particles
velocity vectors in additive mode together and blend that with the wind animation path.

Besides...that is a dynamic direction wind tool, and it is horrible to set up with cloning the handles, I can see it should be to type of "draw spline path" one that you simply can draw a spline path" In layout" and connect the emitter velocity flow to that.
and one almost the same but with wind dynamics.

I would also like to see it working when I add fractal procedurals on particle fields in conjuction with a null reference, that way you can set the falloff distance where the procedural affects and distorts the field in respect to that reference null, and
have it work together when you move and animate that null, this isnīt possible today ..the procedurals on a particle velocity channel affect the field globally.
I want to push these type of effects up some notches...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYpvZyikRqY

vncnt
04-24-2013, 07:38 AM
Keyboard shortcut: toggle viewport full-screen

Doctor49152
04-24-2013, 02:43 PM
Keyboard shortcut: toggle viewport full-screen

In Modeller? you can do that with ctrl-numberpad keys

bobakabob
04-24-2013, 03:20 PM
Would love to see in future updates
a refresh of Hypervoxels
Updated Skytracer with nodal controls and volumetric cloud generator
point manipulation in Layout (the Holy Grail?)
Bones automatically generating weight maps in layout
Walk cycle generator in Genoma

BeeVee
04-24-2013, 04:21 PM
Keyboard shortcut: toggle viewport full-screen

As Doctor49152 said, use the numeric pad 0.

B

erikals
04-24-2013, 05:17 PM
you can also save a numeric pad shortcut view, dang if i remember how... (numpad-less keyboard over here)

Snosrap
04-24-2013, 05:29 PM
Keyboard shortcut: toggle viewport full-screen Doesn't the zero on the number pad do that?

erikals
04-24-2013, 05:43 PM
if you hover the mouse over a perspective window, yes.
if not, no.

Snosrap
04-24-2013, 05:52 PM
Works in every window for me.

erikals
04-24-2013, 05:56 PM
yes, though if you want to force it to choose the perspective view no matter, then you can save a numpad view, i believe (post #157)

BeeVee
04-24-2013, 06:17 PM
Ctrl-numpad sets viewport types, then the numeric pad key uses it. My setup is to just use 1, 2, 3, 4 to change the viewport render type to wire, texture shaded, tex wire and weight map. *Much* faster than having to go to the menu each time.

B

prometheus
04-24-2013, 06:21 PM
Would love to see in future updates
a refresh of Hypervoxels
Updated Skytracer with nodal controls and volumetric cloud generator
point manipulation in Layout (the Holy Grail?)
Bones automatically generating weight maps in layout
Walk cycle generator in Genoma

Forget about skytracer, I want them to dump it, the dponīt sunsky gives a more nicer realistic sky for the sky, and combining with hypervoxels gives better cloudshading than skytracer cloud shading..combined with a new fog model and a new volumetric layer for cloud layers, and volumetric sun and fog, it might get somewhere.
I hate the skytracer look.

ogo taiki wamped up would do too, but not the way you set things up for basic air and sky...get the best from dpont_sunsky combined with new fog and cloud layers and volumetric lights.

Michael

vncnt
04-24-2013, 10:52 PM
As Doctor49152 said, use the numeric pad 0.

B

I meant Layout but you are both right: numeric pad 0 works also in Layout (for all types of viewport).

In "Configure Keys" itīs called "Single View On/Off".
No wonder I couldnīt find it.

Iīm using LW since 4.5 and still canīt handle the basics in this interface.
Sad isnīt it?

erikals
04-25-2013, 12:21 AM
no, using 4.5 actaully is damn cool!! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/lwicon.png

vncnt
04-25-2013, 05:58 AM
Scematic View: untangle

vncnt
05-04-2013, 05:46 AM
RenderGlobals per Camera
(incl. limited region, overlay, render mode, radiosity, caustics, light types, output, etc)

+ copy/paste/save/load and "inherit from".

chikega
05-04-2013, 08:27 AM
The ability to manipulate vertices within Layout using Modeler tools to create accurate morphs in situ. And in addition something like Skelevision in messiah that will let us see both the setup and animation deformation at the same time.


http://www.eggington.net/6Promo/bonagami_skelevision.htm

blackmondy
05-04-2013, 08:34 AM
Buy over PMG and integrate Messiah Studio within Lightwave completely.

OFF
05-04-2013, 09:38 AM
Select polygons in Layout and rename/attach surface name, hide/unhide selected polygons.

vncnt
05-05-2013, 05:12 AM
Layout: Load/Save Selection Sets (since they keep disappearing from my LWS file now and then, mostly after some reparenting).

In Layout, direct acces to available Selection Sets via
Current Item Objects/Bones/Lights/Cameras pulldown menu
(right mouse button).

vncnt
05-05-2013, 05:57 AM
Make the keyframe on the last frame of the dopetrack actually selectable & editable.

JonW
05-05-2013, 06:15 AM
RenderGlobals per Camera
(incl. limited region, overlay, render mode, radiosity, caustics, light types, output, etc)

This would be very useful.

vncnt
05-05-2013, 07:40 AM
And not too complex to program.

vncnt
05-05-2013, 07:44 AM
A keyboard shortcut for AddMarker (Alt+M) and a field that immediately accepts text for that marker.

And keyboard shortcuts to Go to Previous Marker (Ctrl+leftArrow) and Go to Next Marker (Ctrl+rightArrow).

For inspiration, look at Sony Vegas Pro. It has a nice marker and region system that can even handle markers and regions inside media events (like in WAV audio and AVI video files).

Forgot to mention: moving a marker (and regions) by mouse.

djwaterman
05-06-2013, 01:08 AM
Export subD UV EPS's, nice and simple one click like Modo.

hrgiger
05-06-2013, 02:49 AM
Export subD UV EPS's, nice and simple one click like Modo.

Yeah, that issue is long overdue for resolution.

bobakabob
05-06-2013, 03:14 AM
Forget about skytracer, I want them to dump it, the dponīt sunsky gives a more nicer realistic sky for the sky, and combining with hypervoxels gives better cloudshading than skytracer cloud shading..combined with a new fog model and a new volumetric layer for cloud layers, and volumetric sun and fog, it might get somewhere.
I hate the skytracer look.

ogo taiki wamped up would do too, but not the way you set things up for basic air and sky...get the best from dpont_sunsky combined with new fog and cloud layers and volumetric lights.

Michael

Know what you mean about Skytracer. Lightwave could really do with a completely new production friendly integrated sky generator with volumetric clouds. Ogo taiki showed it could be done years ago, so hopefully the Dev team will consider creating a plugin along the same lines combined with DuPont_sunsky. A Hypervoxel refresh would be good for marketing as particles seem to be in vogue at the moment (see M*do) :)

3D Kiwi
05-06-2013, 04:57 AM
From someone that started in Lightwave. Moved to XSI and have just spent a few weeks trying to get back into lightwave because of the cost of Softimage. These the main things for me that makes Softimage worth every cent.

Unification. Coming from a app like SI back to Lightwave having them split up is such a workflow killer. I cant thing of one reason to have them split. The funny thing is, I remember having a heated discussion with a XSI user I worked with about how cool it is to have Modeler and Layout split up. Then i tried XSI and had to buy him a beer and say sorry you were right.

Performance, It is crazy that XSI 7 still out performs Lightwave 11.5. Its not just the viewports but the whole app when you have heavy scenes. I had a scene with alot of instancing going on and Lightwave was pretty much unusable. Not just were the viewports slow, but the whole application slowed right down, Just opening the instanceing panel took close to a min. (tho it did render them fast i was impressed with that)

Stability. I found LW 11.5 to be buggy. Random crashes in Layout and modeler. I didnt spend much time trying to find out why. But compared to SI its pretty bad.

If newtek joined the apps, Worked on performance and Stability i would look at it again. I would rather they spent the next few versions sorting that out than adding new features.

jwiede
05-06-2013, 05:07 AM
I'd just like to see the devs enforce "first-class SDK/script accessibility" on all added functionality. New features and tools shouldn't be released to customers until they are SDK-accessible, and also can be fully accessed from Lscript and Python.

bazsa73
05-06-2013, 05:09 AM
I would like to have proper wireframe render for SubDs.

zarti
05-06-2013, 08:11 AM
Buy over PMG and integrate Messiah Studio within Lightwave completely.
☛ [ Like ] ☚

erikals
05-06-2013, 09:00 AM
though i like the idea, i thought about it some time back, i think it's better for NT to learn from PMG and Maya for then to integrate similar or better technology into LightWave... anything else will be too much work (integration-wise)

+ learn from or improve IKBooster...

geo_n
05-06-2013, 10:12 AM
Buy over PMG and integrate Messiah Studio within Lightwave completely.

Or they can hire the guys that develop messiah to do some character stuff for lw. I think they are not in a good state financially right now. Software is sold so cheap that can't be good, and dwindling userbase. Ulven did say he's for hire in another thread. I think he's a pmg dev.

erikals
05-06-2013, 10:15 AM
thought Ulven was an animator?... maybe he is both...

jburford
05-06-2013, 10:34 AM
PMG is a one man show. Ulven, if I understood correctly, is mainly an animator, who also codes some plugins for Messiah.

I believe that Messiah is still being developed mainly since it is Fori's main Tool that he uses for Projects around the world. And as a side effect, the Core group of users talk him into putting changes into version for the rest of us. Some of the hot developments of Messiah are not put out for the rest of the user base, since they were done for specific customer/projects.

jwiede
05-06-2013, 11:22 AM
though i like the idea, i thought about it some time back, i think it's better for NT to learn from PMG and Maya for then to integrate similar or better technology into LightWave... anything else will be too much work (integration-wise)
Messiah already integrates "inside" LW as a working plugin, so hopefully would require substantially less "integration" work than other external apps. However, I get the impression that Fori likes the existing situation (and being able to do projects), so might not be interested in selling the rights and becoming someone elses' employee. Never hurts to ask, I guess.

erikals
05-06-2013, 11:28 AM
hm, thought it didn't, strange, never saw a picture of video of it.

that's better, might be an idea then...

jasonwestmas
05-06-2013, 03:45 PM
PMG is a one man show. Ulven, if I understood correctly, is mainly an animator, who also codes some plugins for Messiah.

I believe that Messiah is still being developed mainly since it is Fori's main Tool that he uses for Projects around the world. And as a side effect, the Core group of users talk him into putting changes into version for the rest of us. Some of the hot developments of Messiah are not put out for the rest of the user base, since they were done for specific customer/projects.

True except that a lot of the features in M:S 6 were developed for other specific customer projects before the M:S 6 release.

zarti
05-06-2013, 05:19 PM
.. . Never hurts to ask, I guess.

yiep ! i was thinking more asking to him for buying existing code ( /state ) ..

doing so NT may start developing an ` independent branch ` and fit it to its current plan / technology .

while PMG keeps its own route ( softwaro-heterogenic user base , its own philosophy , etc )

, with some extra revenue from its long-existing code .

oc , im thinking for NT to buy from PMG , code related only to CA

, not shading , rendering , dynamics , fur .. oooops !

hey , they have nice fur too . =P




.cheers

MarcusM
05-07-2013, 02:14 AM
I dont have experience with very havy scene but maybe helpfull would be distance slider from camera for bounding box view in Layout.

Ztreem
05-07-2013, 06:42 AM
I would like to see better performance with heavy scenes. Now it's almost impossible to work (animate, navigate) with more than 1 million polys, especially when you have a lot of objects as well. Lightwave really crawls when you have a lot of materials and objects. Right now I'm working with about 20 million polys divided in 100 objects and 35 surfaces/materials and it's really slow. My machine specs, so people don't think it's my computer that is the problem. Dual Intel E5-2687 3.1 GHz, 32 Gb RAM, Nvidia Quadro 4000.

We have objects that is around 120 million polys divided up in 5000 objects (CAD data) Can't imagine loading that in LW, a guy here loaded it in maya and the viewport navigation was a breeze with this object.

Snosrap
05-07-2013, 07:10 PM
How about some simple stuff like being able to add background images in 3D space to use as references for modeling and have those save as part of the model. It's a PITA to have to save out a .cfg file all the time and then keep reloading it when you jump from a full screen perspective view to the ortho views.

jwiede
05-07-2013, 09:35 PM
How about some simple stuff like being able to add background images in 3D space to use as references for modeling and have those save as part of the model. It's a PITA to have to save out a .cfg file all the time and then keep reloading it when you jump from a full screen perspective view to the ortho views.
Yeah, customers have been asking for this for quite some time. It makes no sense for reference images in backdrop to be a global property, having them stored with the object, and being able to switch them as easily as switching between objects in Modeler would be substantially more efficient.

Speaking of "metadata", I'd also very much like something similar to C4D's "userdata" features added to (at least, to start) objects and surfaces in LW (both by SDK/script and by UI), and eventually to any discrete entity within LW. Being able to store arbitrary, tagged, SDK/script-accessible user data with objects, etc. allows for all sorts of uses by third-party plugins.

For example, the feature above about associating backdrop images with objects can be quite easy to implement once you can store arbitrary data (images in this case) with an object. A script hooked into object load events can simply check for whether the object has userdata with a specific tag, and if present it knows to load the data as the backdrop images for the object. Even just being able to associate arbitrary text data with objects and surfaces can be quite useful for storing notes, review comments, etc.

Snosrap
05-07-2013, 10:24 PM
For example, the feature above about associating backdrop images with objects can be quite easy to implement once you can store arbitrary data (images in this case) with an object. Heck that data container is already there! It just needs to be an non-editable at the point level geometry of some sort. You can do it now by creating UV maps on planes, it's just a hassle and silly that in the year 2013 we need to resort to these work arounds. The UV method wouldn't be half bad but Modeler won't allow background inactive layer geometry to have the same type of visibility as the working layer. So I generally don't bother with this, I usually just load up an image in the background using the standard method and just rough out the quick shape and then just wing it from there. But for more exacting work we need real backdrop items.

Ztreem
05-08-2013, 06:11 AM
I would like to be able to set point at target in the bank rotation channel.

Ramon
05-12-2013, 09:26 PM
Also, NT, is it too much to ask for a cut tool like 3DS Max's or Maya's? Is Add Edges the best you have now? That's antiquated, really. :( I feel like I'm using primitive tools - caveman style. What - can't cut to a poly's face? Really? I mean, cutting from edges, verts or faces in anyway you feel like in any combination of those is the way it should be. Autodesk and even Modo and Silo ($150 package) has got that right. Come on NT, time to get that ESSENTIAL part of modeling integrated. I was really hoping that 11.5 would have addressed this but apparently not.

And another thing, bandsaw pro feels clunky and not very integrated or "real time" like Max's connect edges. If anyone is curious to what I mean, youtube it.

I really do like LW and been using it since ver 5.5 though the last several years working at my company (game studio in Atlanta) I have been using MAX rather exclusively and I realize that Max is a $3,600 package but, like I said, Silo is $150 and has the cut tool and of course, I don't mean like LW's cut tool, which is not at all what I am talking about. LW's closest representation as I said is the Add Edges which is a big fail. Max also has the modifier stack which is awesome for those who know how to use it properly. At home I can't justify $3,600 to buy Max so NT please look at the Cut tool in Max, Maya, Silo or even Modo and see how it should be done. You can call the tool something like "custom cut" or something to that effect.

Two things that I really love about LW over Max or Maya for that matter

Love that we can tumble freely in the viewport when modeling not hindered by gimbal lock! That really drives me nuts in Max. They don't even dive you an option if you want to be constrained or not, they force it on you. Can't stand that.
Love the fact that in LW we can rotate, scale or translate points, polys, edges based on several factors - especially the mouse position! It's a massive pain in the neck to do that in Max. If Max would do this two things that LW does very well, it would be awesome!

Simon-S
05-13-2013, 03:01 AM
Also, NT, is it too much to ask for a cut tool like 3DS Max's or Maya's? Is Add Edges the best you have now? That's antiquated, really. :( I feel like I'm using primitive tools - caveman style. What - can't cut to a poly's face? Really? I mean, cutting from edges, verts or faces in anyway you feel like in any combination of those is the way it should be. Autodesk and even Modo and Silo ($150 package) has got that right. Come on NT, time to get that ESSENTIAL part of modeling integrated. I was really hoping that 11.5 would have addressed this but apparently not.

And another thing, bandsaw pro feels clunky and not very integrated or "real time" like Max's connect edges. If anyone is curious to what I mean, youtube it.

I really do like LW and been using it since ver 5.5 though the last several years working at my company (game studio in Atlanta) I have been using MAX rather exclusively and I realize that Max is a $3,600 package but, like I said, Silo is $150 and has the cut tool and of course, I don't mean like LW's cut tool, which is not at all what I am talking about. LW's closest representation as I said is the Add Edges which is a big fail. Max also has the modifier stack which is awesome for those who know how to use it properly. At home I can't justify $3,600 to buy Max so NT please look at the Cut tool in Max, Maya, Silo or even Modo and see how it should be done. You can call the tool something like "custom cut" or something to that effect.

Two things that I really love about LW over Max or Maya for that matter

Love that we can tumble freely in the viewport when modeling not hindered by gimbal lock! That really drives me nuts in Max. They don't even dive you an option if you want to be constrained or not, they force it on you. Can't stand that.
Love the fact that in LW we can rotate, scale or translate points, polys, edges based on several factors - especially the mouse position! It's a massive pain in the neck to do that in Max. If Max would do this two things that LW does very well, it would be awesome!


Lightwave 11.5 has the new slice tool. "Slice
The new interactive 'slice' tool allows fast detailing of geometry. By previewing where the cut will take place, coupled with snapping to points and edge centers using the CTRL key, modelers can quickly add edges to refine meshes more easily than before."

https://www.lightwave3d.com/new_features/

dsol
05-13-2013, 04:16 AM
The whole render setup and output is very basic - and virtually unchanged since LW5. It could really do with a major overhaul. A (relatively) simple to implement, but really useful workflow improvement would be something akin to the After Effects Render Queue window.

For example, if you were rendering the same shot from multiple camera angles, right now you have to save multiple versions of the scene with different cameras selected so you can send it to Screamernet. What would be way more useful is the ability to either set a different file output for each camera (along with individual frame ranges). Obviously, you'd want to have some kind of centralised control for this too to make it easy to update. Maybe having a chosen "default" filename and location, then each camera added to the render list outputs using a filename like "Default" + "CameraName" + "renderPass".

This also leads on to my second bugbear with file outputs in LW - saving render buffers (like AO, depth maps, ObjectID etc) currently has to be setup as a separate image processing effect. I can understand the technical reasons for this, but from a user point of view, it's incredibly illogical and unintuitive. Surely anything to do with saving files should be in the main render/file output controls?

Hail
05-13-2013, 04:18 AM
Also, NT, is it too much to ask for a cut tool like 3DS Max's or Maya's? Is Add Edges the best you have now? That's antiquated, really. :( I feel like I'm using primitive tools - caveman style. What - can't cut to a poly's face? Really? I mean, cutting from edges, verts or faces in anyway you feel like in any combination of those is the way it should be. Autodesk and even Modo and Silo ($150 package) has got that right. Come on NT, time to get that ESSENTIAL part of modeling integrated. I was really hoping that 11.5 would have addressed this but apparently not.

And another thing, bandsaw pro feels clunky and not very integrated or "real time" like Max's connect edges. If anyone is curious to what I mean, youtube it.

I really do like LW and been using it since ver 5.5 though the last several years working at my company (game studio in Atlanta) I have been using MAX rather exclusively and I realize that Max is a $3,600 package but, like I said, Silo is $150 and has the cut tool and of course, I don't mean like LW's cut tool, which is not at all what I am talking about. LW's closest representation as I said is the Add Edges which is a big fail. Max also has the modifier stack which is awesome for those who know how to use it properly. At home I can't justify $3,600 to buy Max so NT please look at the Cut tool in Max, Maya, Silo or even Modo and see how it should be done. You can call the tool something like "custom cut" or something to that effect.

Two things that I really love about LW over Max or Maya for that matter

Love that we can tumble freely in the viewport when modeling not hindered by gimbal lock! That really drives me nuts in Max. They don't even dive you an option if you want to be constrained or not, they force it on you. Can't stand that.
Love the fact that in LW we can rotate, scale or translate points, polys, edges based on several factors - especially the mouse position! It's a massive pain in the neck to do that in Max. If Max would do this two things that LW does very well, it would be awesome!




There is also the new edit edges, which allows you to add and slide edges in bandsaw pro style but in a more interactive manner(without any pop ups) :)

Ramon
05-13-2013, 11:55 AM
There is also the new edit edges, which allows you to add and slide edges in bandsaw pro style but in a more interactive manner(without any pop ups) :)

Is it as well integrated as this Connect Edges in Max? Max is very unobtrusive.
114320
Now that's connect edges in Max not Max's cut tool that I also really like.
Like I said a couple of posts ago though, Max has, for me, two glaring issues that LW blows it away in.

Ramon
05-13-2013, 12:09 PM
Lightwave 11.5 has the new slice tool. "Slice
The new interactive 'slice' tool allows fast detailing of geometry. By previewing where the cut will take place, coupled with snapping to points and edge centers using the CTRL key, modelers can quickly add edges to refine meshes more easily than before."

https://www.lightwave3d.com/new_features/
Thanks Simon, I don't have 11.5 at work but, I'll check it out tonight and see if the slice tool does what I'm talking about. You mentioned edges and points but, my question is if it also cuts on poly faces? Because if not, it sounds like the "Add Edges" tool which is what I mentioned needs a big overhaul.

BeeVee
05-13-2013, 02:48 PM
The whole render setup and output is very basic - and virtually unchanged since LW5. It could really do with a major overhaul. A (relatively) simple to implement, but really useful workflow improvement would be something akin to the After Effects Render Queue window.

For example, if you were rendering the same shot from multiple camera angles, right now you have to save multiple versions of the scene with different cameras selected so you can send it to Screamernet. What would be way more useful is the ability to either set a different file output for each camera (along with individual frame ranges). Obviously, you'd want to have some kind of centralised control for this too to make it easy to update. Maybe having a chosen "default" filename and location, then each camera added to the render list outputs using a filename like "Default" + "CameraName" + "renderPass".

Hey Dan,

Can't you just use the Camera Selector Master plug-in?

B

Snosrap
05-13-2013, 07:37 PM
There is also the new edit edges, which allows you to add and slide edges in bandsaw pro style but in a more interactive manner(without any pop ups) :)The biggest issue with the new modeling tools in 11.5 is that they don't work well in Sub-D mode and I do most of my modeling in Sub-D's. If the fast deformation rendering mode was in Sub-D I think they would be pretty nice tools.

Ramon
05-13-2013, 08:58 PM
Thanks Simon, I don't have 11.5 at work but, I'll check it out tonight and see if the slice tool does what I'm talking about. You mentioned edges and points but, my question is if it also cuts on poly faces? Because if not, it sounds like the "Add Edges" tool which is what I mentioned needs a big overhaul.

Well Simon, I just checked out he slice tool and though it is better than 9.6's "Add Edges" it lacks the ability to cut on the poly face. You only have the edge or points that you can cut to. That's not going to "cut" it. NT, you know this. As I said, even Silo $100 app has this ability. Silo is a great modeler from what I have seen thusfar. Going to try Modo 701 now.

Ztreem
05-14-2013, 01:44 AM
1. I would like to be able to rotate objects with vertex normals in modeler without the vertex normal data to be screwed up!

2. Support for vertex normals on deforming geometry in Layout