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View Full Version : 10% price hike on 3dsmax/maya (UK)



robertoortiz
03-14-2013, 10:30 AM
Quote:
"We wanted to give you a quick heads up that from the 28th March, Autodesk are increasing their prices by approximately 10%, specifically affecting 3ds Max® and Maya®.

So, if you are considering a new seat, additional seat/s or upgrading in the near future, then ordering before the 28th March deadline could save you £££.

Existing price for a new seat - £2,900 New price - £3,300
Existing subscription price - £495 New price - £545
Upgrade from 6 versions back - £2,030 New price - £2,240

All prices ex vat.

"

http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=95c1e00260b3685c3c19ef206&id=f6fbb0c416&e=d0d9d95fd1

erikals
03-14-2013, 02:02 PM
Amazing... they follow up with yet another price increase 2 months later.

it better have Naiad...
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=7543434#post7543434

JonW
03-14-2013, 02:53 PM
Maybe the 10% increase in this current economic climate will cover the 20% drop in sales!

I'm sure a number of people will be looking for a similar product in a more favourable price bracket!

jeric_synergy
03-14-2013, 03:00 PM
Maybe the 10% increase in this current economic climate will cover the 20% drop in sales!
You mean the drop BEFORE (that is, the existing drop due to the bad economy), or the drop after?

I'm sure a number of people will be looking for a similar product in a more favourable price bracket!
That's a good hook for a LW3DG mini-campaign: their "NOT-raising the price 'sale' " (really, just promoting the current LW price).

Andrewstopheles
03-14-2013, 03:27 PM
Ahhh yes, that would be one way to ride the waves of the media response to the price increase. Let's not forget that Newtek raised their price a while back by a significant amount (percentage-wise). Rather than expose themselves to being included on the wrong end of the price increase discussion it's probably best to just let Autodesk have all the negative publicity on this one.
I would like to add that the Newtek price increase seemed to be in-line with the market value of the product and the passing of time while it also better reflects their market position.

fablefox
03-15-2013, 06:21 AM
Ahhh yes, that would be one way to ride the waves of the media response to the price increase. Let's not forget that Newtek raised their price a while back by a significant amount (percentage-wise). Rather than expose themselves to being included on the wrong end of the price increase discussion it's probably best to just let Autodesk have all the negative publicity on this one.
I would like to add that the Newtek price increase seemed to be in-line with the market value of the product and the passing of time while it also better reflects their market position.

And yet NT still play nice by releasing 11.5, although those that still on 10.1 will feel left out (then).

erikals
03-15-2013, 09:14 AM
it'd be interesting to see what 3DStudioMax costs you over a period of 10 years, and then compare what LightWave costs you over a period of 10 years.

Celshader
03-15-2013, 09:43 AM
it'd be interesting to see what 3DStudioMax costs you over a period of 10 years, and then compare what LightWave costs you over a period of 10 years.

It's whatever 3ds Max costs + the cost of VRay. I realized why so many Max artists switch to VRay after seeing both VRay and mental ray in action at work.

A co-worker has a 3ds Max setup at home with Max, VRay, FumeFX, Afterburner, Rayfire and all the other bells and whistles available for Max. He said it cost him $20,000 for the initial setup. I do not know what he pays for maintenance.

erikals
03-15-2013, 09:52 AM
hm, didn't know Max also had that problem...
(Maya M-ray wasn't really something to brag about when i tried it a few years back)

(btw, K-ray 3 is gonna be real good from what i hear, sorta like Arnold-simple setup)


good LightWave days :]

Celshader
03-15-2013, 09:57 AM
it'd be interesting to see what 3DStudioMax costs you over a period of 10 years, and then compare what LightWave costs you over a period of 10 years.

It's whatever 3ds Max costs + the cost of VRay. I realized why so many Max artists switch to VRay after seeing both VRay and mental ray in action at work.

A co-worker has a 3ds Max setup at home with Max, VRay, FumeFX, Afterburner, Rayfire and all the other bells and whistles available for Max. He said it cost him $20,000 for the initial setup. I do not know what he pays for maintenance.

Surrealist.
03-15-2013, 10:54 AM
Vray is much better supported in Max (I think) than it is in Maya. Mental Ray has better integration into Softimage than Maya. But once you learn how to use it, Mental Ray is quite capable in Maya. There are various drawbacks to using Vray. It simply does not support all features. So it is a trade off. But I think you have to test these things for yourself based on what you need. I think that if you take the time to learn Mental Ray in Maya, it might seem a tad complex - and in some ways it is for sure - but it works quite well. Vray to me is cool. Has some nice features. But in no way matches the same level of integration as Mental Ray. 3Dmax also has Iray. I'd like to see that in Softimage and Maya. I don't think it is a given that you have to use Vray. It depends on what you are doing and of course how good you are at using MR. There are lots of artists who use Mental Ray quite nicely. Vray has some advantages, but again also drawbacks. Same goes for LightWave.

Celshader
03-15-2013, 11:54 AM
Vray is much better supported in Max (I think) than it is in Maya. Mental Ray has better integration into Softimage than Maya. But once you learn how to use it, Mental Ray is quite capable in Maya. There are various drawbacks to using Vray. It simply does not support all features. So it is a trade off. But I think you have to test these things for yourself based on what you need. I think that if you take the time to learn Mental Ray in Maya, it might seem a tad complex - and in some ways it is for sure - but it works quite well. Vray to me is cool. Has some nice features. But in no way matches the same level of integration as Mental Ray. 3Dmax also has Iray. I'd like to see that in Softimage and Maya. I don't think it is a given that you have to use Vray. It depends on what you are doing and of course how good you are at using MR. There are lots of artists who use Mental Ray quite nicely. Vray has some advantages, but again also drawbacks. Same goes for LightWave.

After seeing my co-workers use mental ray for Maya, VRay for Maya and VRay for Max at work, I came to the following conclusions:

VRay for Max is several builds ahead of VRay for Maya.
mental ray for Maya forces the artist to use multichannel EXRs, while VRay for Maya and exrTrader for LightWave both offer the option of rendering AOV (http://renderspud.blogspot.com/2010/05/arbitrary-output-variables-aov-and.html)s to separate folders.
mental ray for Maya, if used within referenced scenes, cannot be removed in order to get replaced with VRay.
mental ray can't do in-camera motion blur with any kind of reasonable production speed.
In general, my co-workers will use VRay (or LightWave) for Maya renders before considering mental ray.

geo_n
03-15-2013, 12:22 PM
it'd be interesting to see what 3DStudioMax costs you over a period of 10 years, and then compare what LightWave costs you over a period of 10 years.

But you have to factor in that maya and max projects are 1000 times more available than other software though not to mention job posting is all max and maya.
The initial cost is nothing if the projects are pouring in every month assuming the freelancer or the studio is capable of producing the goods. I would have invested in 3dmax 2009 and stayed with it up to now if I had the cash back then. You only really need vray, fumefx, rayfire for most projects.
AD knows the business and the marketshare. They know nothing out there can touch them, not even blender even if the cost is 0.

erikals
03-15-2013, 12:36 PM
sorta, yes, but if you have your own company the rules are quite different.

"not even blender even if the cost is 0"
well, AutoDesk's slogan 1-2 years ago was "Don't Blend In"...


it's a yes / no thing... it depends...

not saying i never would touch it though...

AD just bought Naiad, maybe we'll see it in the near future, finally an interesting (to me) move forward.


btw, talking FumeFX, you can get Turbulence4D for half price now > €213
(not comparing FumeFX and Turbulence here...)
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?133047-TurbulenceFD-LightWave-User-Group-Purchase&p=1308472&viewfull=1#post1308472

jeric_synergy
03-15-2013, 01:13 PM
It's pretty weird how, considering it's power, I've yet to hear of a Blender-based facility, even 2 or 3-man.

I'm sure they must exist, but it's been vewwy vewwy quiet.

Celshader
03-15-2013, 01:17 PM
It's pretty weird how, considering it's power, I've yet to hear of a Blender-based facility, even 2 or 3-man.

I'm sure they must exist, but it's been vewwy vewwy quiet.

Anthony Zierhut used Blender to create animatics for Spider-Man 2 (http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/testimonials/animatics-for-motion-pictures/) in 2003. By the time I got onto that project in early 2004, he had switched over to LightWave in order to share assets with co-workers. However, his Blender screenshots appear in Caught in the Web: Dreaming Up the World of Spider-Man 2.

Megalodon2.0
03-15-2013, 01:20 PM
(btw, K-ray 3 is gonna be real good from what i hear, sorta like Arnold-simple setup)


good LightWave days :]

I would LOVE to see that.

I've been coveting Arnold for quite some time and it would be good to see Kray3 with that kind of functionality and speed for huge scenes.

Titus
03-15-2013, 01:45 PM
It's pretty weird how, considering it's power, I've yet to hear of a Blender-based facility, even 2 or 3-man.

I'm sure they must exist, but it's been vewwy vewwy quiet.

I've met a few Blender-based companies, they do exist. Alas, we're a Blender/LW/Messiah facility.


I would LOVE to see that.

I've been coveting Arnold for quite some time and it would be good to see Kray3 with that kind of functionality and speed for huge scenes.

I remember that, he wrote a custom Blender version.

Titus
03-15-2013, 01:46 PM
Double post.

Surrealist.
03-15-2013, 02:06 PM
I work for a company that uses Blender.

But the uses are far and wide. It is not necessarily all VFX work. And there are shops that use it.

But.... Blender is not at all up to the task of making a serious dent in the mainstream market of robust solutions for VFX.

It will however grow steadily. There are a number of smaller companies using it for asset development in games. There are many many markets out there.

Personally I prefer not to use Blender as a main solution. But it is getting better all the time.

jeric_synergy
03-15-2013, 03:25 PM
I'm not at all dogging on Blender btw, I don't know it at all (although I keep installing it....).

Titus
03-15-2013, 05:08 PM
I'm not at all dogging on Blender btw, I don't know it at all (although I keep installing it....).


99% of Blender users does the same. I had Blender installed for a couple of years before learning anything.

Surrealist.
03-16-2013, 12:06 AM
After seeing my co-workers use mental ray for Maya, VRay for Maya and VRay for Max at work, I came to the following conclusions:

VRay for Max is several builds ahead of VRay for Maya.
mental ray for Maya forces the artist to use multichannel EXRs, while VRay for Maya and exrTrader for LightWave both offer the option of rendering AOV (http://renderspud.blogspot.com/2010/05/arbitrary-output-variables-aov-and.html)s to separate folders.
mental ray for Maya, if used within referenced scenes, cannot be removed in order to get replaced with VRay.
mental ray can't do in-camera motion blur with any kind of reasonable production speed.
In general, my co-workers will use VRay (or LightWave) for Maya renders before considering mental ray.


That is interesting information.

Based on my experience with Vray, were I to use 3D max, it would not be a given that I would be using Vray. That is all I can say. It is not a given. Many artists use and swear by Mental Ray. You commented in a very universal statement of truth just about how much would it cost to upgrade 3Dmax over a period of 10 years. As if it was a given. It is not.

It would not necessarily be true for me and many other artists. Because not all artists in all situations need the same thing.

That is all I am saying.

So for me the answer to the original question would be the cost difference between 3Dmax and Lightwave.

That's my vote. It counts. I am not alone.

Surrealist.
03-16-2013, 12:11 AM
I'm not at all dogging on Blender btw, I don't know it at all (although I keep installing it....).

Not at all. If anything you were giving it too much credit.

Someone started a thread on this topic here:

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?282113-Lets-list-the-companies-working-with-blender

geo_n
03-16-2013, 12:55 AM
I work for a company that uses Blender.

But the uses are far and wide. It is not necessarily all VFX work. And there are shops that use it.

But.... Blender is not at all up to the task of making a serious dent in the mainstream market of robust solutions for VFX.

It will however grow steadily. There are a number of smaller companies using it for asset development in games. There are many many markets out there.

Personally I prefer not to use Blender as a main solution. But it is getting better all the time.

Agreed. Its good but it will not displace the tens of thousands of maya and max users that currently dominate the industry. Maybe in the next decade but seeing how many schools are producing AD graduates I still doubt it.

Leigh is pretty harsh on blender evangelist who try to promote blender as THE SOLUTION for a good pipeline.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=1092205&page=4&pp=15
"Stop imagining that Maya is inefficient just so you can push your opensource/Blender agenda here - it's becoming ridiculous."

Lol. With people in position who are very much invested in maya then the pipeline will be maya based and that equates to AD doing anything they want with the software including price hikes.

BigHache
03-16-2013, 05:14 AM
Leigh is pretty harsh on blender evangelist who try to promote blender as THE SOLUTION for a good pipeline.

And that's why I don't post over there or even bother with those forums for information. If a forum mod acts that way, there's no peace to be kept. I like to hang around these parts with a real sheriff. ;)

Even though AD is kind of the big dog, my job is about to buy LW for me because I'm the resident 3D guru and LW is what I know. They also find it hard to argue with less than half the cost.

Surrealist.
03-16-2013, 06:14 AM
Software Evangelism is well and alive on all forums and all Software. Especially here. I can understand it if you are a kid who just downloaded Blender and is in heaven. Hell, I would have been. It is when professionals do it that it bothers me. And that applies to here. It happens all the time. "Everything over there is so bad" Which is a way of illustrating how good things are here. It does not have to be that way at all. Things can be good here on their own merits. But things are good over there too. And some things need improvement here. Some things need improvement over there. Some things over there are better. It does seem that Maya is the easy target. So even Softimage users are as equally bitter and bias as Blender users against Maya and even AD - recent purchase in the case of XSI vets. To me it is just not really that productive of an attitude.

erikals
03-16-2013, 08:45 AM
i disagree, over there you just have to write the word Lightwave and then either Leigh or another "Application X" user will have an outburst.
hardly productive.

over here, it's both bragging and nagging, which i think is alright.

jeric_synergy
03-16-2013, 10:18 AM
Things can be good here on their own merits. But things are good over there too. And some things need improvement here. Some things need improvement over there. Some things over there are better. It does seem that Maya is the easy target. ....... To me it is just not really that productive of an attitude.
That's why Rob's first moves, to improve the pipeline between LW and Maya, and incidentally everybody else, struck me as very wise and cadgey.

By attacking probably the simplest of the issues, translation and portability (still not simple, but the other issues are complex and, worst, time consuming to address), he kept the doors open enough to shove a wedge in and allow LW's virtues to be used in the land of Maya. That gave him time to get 11.5 out, which I think rocks and has gained LW new credibility.

THose moves did nothing directly for me, a non-Maya user, but I could see they'd be very smart world-wide.

cresshead
03-16-2013, 10:20 AM
i believe autodesk's long term stratergy is to lower cost of development over ALL of their media and entertainment range by going SUITES ONLY to achieve that they are raising the prices on single app subs to push you to suites.

Once it's suites only they can get a higher per head subscription charge and also deliver maybe 1 proper update within the suite set of apps per year in effect making updates every 3 years.

for example:

year 1: maya gets a proper feature update, motion builder and mudbox only a stability update...

year 2: maya stability update, motion builder feature update, mudbox stability update

year 3: maya stability update, motion builder stability update and mudbox feature update

with the suite only strategy Autodesk can legitamately say the 'suite' has had major feature updates every year

you can forget softimage that's "finished" in proper updates it's the freeby bundle app that's all but mothballed like combustion and composite.

that's how i see their stratergy in the next few years, reduce development costs and maximise subscriptions.

I'm sure Autodesk are convinced that they have sewn up the 3d market with aquirng Maya, Motion builder, Mudbox and Softimage.

they want to go back to a multi year development model but retain a 12 monthly subscription model.

the end of this month is going to be eye opening on exactly where 3ds max is heading, either i've got this totally wrong ( i hope i have actually) or my gut feelings have been spot on!

Surrealist.
03-16-2013, 12:58 PM
i disagree, over there you just have to write the word Lightwave and then either Leigh or another "Application X" user will have an outburst.
hardly productive.

over here, it's both bragging and nagging, which i think is alright.

Agreed, that is not productive either.

erikals
03-16-2013, 01:12 PM
bragging and nagging is productive :]
(depending)

Red_Oddity
03-16-2013, 01:23 PM
After seeing my co-workers use mental ray for Maya, VRay for Maya and VRay for Max at work, I came to the following conclusions:

VRay for Max is several builds ahead of VRay for Maya.
mental ray for Maya forces the artist to use multichannel EXRs, while VRay for Maya and exrTrader for LightWave both offer the option of rendering AOV (http://renderspud.blogspot.com/2010/05/arbitrary-output-variables-aov-and.html)s to separate folders.
mental ray for Maya, if used within referenced scenes, cannot be removed in order to get replaced with VRay.
mental ray can't do in-camera motion blur with any kind of reasonable production speed.
In general, my co-workers will use VRay (or LightWave) for Maya renders before considering mental ray.


Just want to clear up on some points that are inaccurate (having 10+ years of experience with Maya and MR and 3+ years VRay experience):

Vray for Max and Maya are pretty much identical (talking nightlies core features and not accounting for Max/Maya only helper tools, like Ornatrix), VRay for Maya does miss some none render engine specific features/tools though (Lens distortion tool for example)
MentalRay for Maya doesn't force the use of multichannel EXR only, if you add <RenderPass> as part of your file output it outputs separate exr renders.
MentalRay can be removed as long as you remove it inside the referenced files first (which is logical), but, it is a nightmarish pain in the *** of a job though, one i wouldn't even want to wish on a mortal enemy.
As for motion blur, yeah, even an immortal god would get impatient waiting for a MR render with motion blur turned on to finish.
We dumped MentalRay and never looked back, the price for VRay licenses is negligible compared to the days of man hours wasted on trying to get MR to output anything decent (not to mention artists health)


One thing i didn't see mention is, one HUGE production critical plus that VRay has over MentalRay, is the fact that Chaos Group is a developer that is willing to listen to clients, is willing to help you out when you run into a bug or problem (going as far as TeamViewer sessions, free of charge, no f-ing 100+ euro telephone calls or gold subscription bullsh!t), is willing to add features if you need them, is actually showing it is actively developing, and there is no need to wait for a year for an update (nightlies saved our *** soooo many times, i lost track)