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djwaterman
03-07-2013, 04:39 AM
I found this C4D work on Greyscale Gorilla, can we do this in LW?


http://vimeo.com/59800425

djwaterman
03-07-2013, 04:41 AM
Check out the breakdown in the other videos "5sp_quick tip".

50one
03-07-2013, 04:58 AM
Assigning a texture based on a camera projection, than baking to uv map on specific objects?

alexs3d
03-07-2013, 05:00 AM
nice trick :)

RebelHill
03-07-2013, 05:48 AM
Assigning a texture based on a camera projection, than baking to uv map on specific objects?

No need for that even Id have thought... When u assign a camera projection, u can assign a frame reference... so set it to the last frame, and the earlier ones *should* fall into line.

50one
03-07-2013, 06:08 AM
No need for that even Id have thought... When u assign a camera projection, u can assign a frame reference... so set it to the last frame, and the earlier ones *should* fall into line.

Hmmm, but you won't get texture movement rather an effect of the texture overlay on last frame? I need to check this one out, got few mor frames to render in the meantime so I'll see if this will work.

djwaterman
03-07-2013, 06:35 AM
How do you assign a UV map to random separate objects that have fallen into a pile like that? Hang on let me think. They are all cloned in modeler as a group array, then given a UV map as a single object, using the UV type that turns everything into an exact grid? Then the camera projection just maps to the UV on the last frame, the object saved or baked or something? I'm not so good with this kind of thing.

cresshead
03-07-2013, 06:50 AM
nice effect on this, i like it!

MSherak
03-07-2013, 08:26 AM
Bullet sim with a texture projected from a light.

lino.grandi
03-07-2013, 04:01 PM
You can map a plane big as the screen in World Coordinates (on the Z axis). Then assign the same surface to the instances (and maybe animate the opacity so at the start all the instances have their own color, and then make the final image appear). Of course the plane should be used as a reference only....so hide it from the render/OpenGL.
Or use Front Projection (with opacity animated as well).

Of course no UV needed in both cases.

VonBon
03-07-2013, 04:29 PM
Im thinking you could just create the simulation first and then map the object at the end frame.

would be cool if we could save simulations as Morph Sequences.

adk
03-07-2013, 05:12 PM
How about Sticky Front UV node from db&w ?

XswampyX
03-07-2013, 05:20 PM
Try :-

Create your simulation with bullet.
Bake out the simulation (to stop it from changing).
Go to the frame you want the texture/image to 'form' on.
Save object as Morph. :D
In modeler create a UV map using the morph as your layer.
Texture using this new uv map.
Go back into layout and press play.
Be amazed!

Hope this helps.


http://youtu.be/EY1NVGumRwM

Edit for V Quick render.

Surrealist.
03-07-2013, 10:46 PM
Great idea there XswampyX!

I think you could have an alternate set up using all of the techniques here, including a reference image in the camera view - per Lino . If you were to take the time to set up a UV map in advance it would perhaps give yourself more flexibility in the sim stage. It is a trade off. I mean you would not be locked in to the final resting place. You could rather do several versions if needed without any vertex baking or going into Modeler after the fact. Actually less steps.

It would however be a complex UV map. But you could do it easily with something like Atlas all at once on all of the meshes in one layer - which they will be anyway.

Once you have this set up, have the mesh in one layer and simulate. When you have it where you want it with the image front projected using an alpha on each surface,(bake the sim) then use the surface baking camera to capture the final frame to the UV. Then use that image to map onto the geometry and render the final result as an animation.

Just another way to skin it that might be faster and more intuitive on the Layout side, with set up in Modeler first.

Thomas Leitner
03-08-2013, 12:32 AM
...Or use Front Projection....
Hi,
unfortunately fixed Front Projection is broken since a few versions. It doesnīt stick to the surface any more.

ciao
Thomas

50one
03-08-2013, 02:53 AM
Ok, wanted to do this yesterday, is it just me or baking the bullet sim via motion baker takes ageeeees? I've got a simple scene, floor and 125 dynamic "peebles", is there other way to bake the bullet sim once it's cached?

lino.grandi
03-08-2013, 01:38 PM
That's odd! I've been using it not so much time ago and it was working fine. Do you have any bug report with content and steps to reproduce the problem?



Hi,
unfortunately fixed Front Projection is broken since a few versions. It doesnīt stick to the surface any more.

ciao
Thomas

realgray
03-08-2013, 07:42 PM
Haven't watched it yet but maybe this would give a few ideas.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYL9w6xsZ6g&list=PL2xzxUlbWVhXzHMwsxE640S5eV_BAx1C-&index=56

Thomas Leitner
03-09-2013, 08:05 AM
That's odd! I've been using it not so much time ago and it was working fine. Do you have any bug report with content and steps to reproduce the problem?

Hi,
I made a bug report some time ago, but Iīm not sure if NT recognize it as a bug:

https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?56141_bn77l8n9vucsc5ie

ciao
Thomas

lino.grandi
03-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Hi,
I made a bug report some time ago, but Iīm not sure if NT recognize it as a bug:

https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?56141_bn77l8n9vucsc5ie

ciao
Thomas

I've just read the report. That's not a bug, as Deuce stated.

If you use Fixed Front Projection, you can move the camera, not the objects in the scene, since the projection itself it's always relative to the camera view.

Simply, you can't move the objects in the scene when using Front Projection in general. If you do that, you'll see the Camera Mapped Image slide over them.

That's how it always worked. ;)

papou
03-09-2013, 05:01 PM
that's the reason Worley have done Taft's Sticky Front Projection.

Titus
03-09-2013, 06:30 PM
That's odd! I've been using it not so much time ago and it was working fine. Do you have any bug report with content and steps to reproduce the problem?

No, he's right. Had this problem in LW 9.X.

Surrealist.
03-09-2013, 10:55 PM
To the point, though, AFAIK it does not work for this type of thing. The image has to be mapped on the objects in the resting point. If you look at the video the objects already have the image mapped in the correct place for when they rest. That mapping sticks with each individual object as it falls then when it rests they all fall into place. I don't think you can do that with FP. As stated the projection will slide across the objects. That is my understanding of the problem and it is shown also in that Blender tut.

The only two ways I can think of is XswampyX's idea to save trans and UV map or bake the front projection to a UV. Unless I am missing something.

Thomas Leitner
03-10-2013, 06:00 AM
I've just read the report. That's not a bug, as Deuce stated.

If you use Fixed Front Projection, you can move the camera, not the objects in the scene, since the projection itself it's always relative to the camera view.

Simply, you can't move the objects in the scene when using Front Projection in general. If you do that, you'll see the Camera Mapped Image slide over them.

That's how it always worked. ;)

Hi Lino,
maybe itīs how it always worked, I canīt remember it and I have LW 6 (I think it was introduced at that time) no longer installed, but the manual says: "Front projection surfaces will always look the same no matter where you move the object or which way you rotate it. The image does not normally stick to the surface. However, if you activate the Fixed Projection option (previously Sticky Projection), it fixes (i.e., locks) the projection from the camera’s perspective at the specified Time."
The wording clearly implicate that you can move the object after activating Fixed Projection and the texture stick to the surface.
And honestly, this is the way it should work (what the candy example confirm), so maybe itīs a document bug and a feature request.

ciao
Thomas

lino.grandi
03-10-2013, 09:07 AM
Hi Lino,
maybe itīs how it always worked, I canīt remember it and I have LW 6 (I think it was introduced at that time) no longer installed, but the manual says: "Front projection surfaces will always look the same no matter where you move the object or which way you rotate it. The image does not normally stick to the surface. However, if you activate the Fixed Projection option (previously Sticky Projection), it fixes (i.e., locks) the projection from the camera’s perspective at the specified Time."
The wording clearly implicate that you can move the object after activating Fixed Projection and the texture stick to the surface.

No, it doesn't. Even if, I have to say, that could really be explained more clearly.
Fixed projection let's you simply specify a frame different than frame 0 to use as reference for the projection. And that's what the manual it's saying..." it fixes (i.e., locks) the projection from the camera’s perspective at the specified Time.", does not mean you can move the objects, but only that you can specify a different time than zero to be used for the scope.



And honestly, this is the way it should work (what the candy example confirm), so maybe itīs a document bug and a feature request.

ciao
Thomas

You can use Front Projection to bake textures on objects, and of course you need UVs to do that. While i agree the docs could be more clear about this feature, it's even true what you're asking has nothing to do with Camera Front Projection, being something related more to baking a texture to surfaces.

lino.grandi
03-10-2013, 09:11 AM
And there's a cool way to get what you want. Take a look at this scene.
It uses a second camera parented to the object to make it work as you need. Of course Fixed Front Projection must be disabled in this case. ;)

Considering you can use as many cameras/images you want to map the same object, I can only imagine how useful this kind of setup can be for VFX or just to map an object using multiple real shots taken from different points of view. Or we can even use a real camera movie, with several front projection layers referencing different cameras, with Fixed Front Projection used to specify the right frame for each.

You can't see it in OpenGL, but VPR can show it.

Surrealist.
03-10-2013, 09:24 AM
EDIT Posted at the same time - explaining the same thing basically that has been said.

It does not actually say you can move the object. It just says that it fixes the projection and I think it is intended so you can move the camera not the object.

I dug up this tutorial which explains:

http://www.oocities.org/siliconvalley/park/2976/l65_tut1.html

Tips at the end explain clearly:


Don't move the object unless the Reference camera is parented to it. You'll screw up the image mapping (try and see (but save the scene first!))

Did you know that you can BAKE the Fixed projection map onto a UV surface too?! Just be sure to select 'Bake Shaders' in the LW_BAKER settings. :)

Baking is basically what you have to do in order to do this effect as I understand it anyway.

Maybe you are thinking of this:

http://www.worley.com/E/Products/taft/man_stickyFP.html


Taft's Sticky Front Projection plugin (StickyFP for short) is much more powerful than LightWave's front projection. The most obvious difference is that StickyFP is Gaffer Like LightWave's Front Projection, the surface color matches your background image perfectly. However, StickyFP allows you to move the camera or the object and the map will Gaffer to the surface. This allows for a huge variety of special effects.

Thomas Leitner
03-10-2013, 10:02 AM
No, it doesn't. Even if, I have to say, that could really be explained more clearly.
Fixed projection let's you simply specify a frame different than frame 0 to use as reference for the projection. And that's what the manual it's saying..." it fixes (i.e., locks) the projection from the camera’s perspective at the specified Time.", does not mean you can move the objects, but only that you can specify a different time than zero to be used for the scope.

Hi Lino,
my english isnīt so good, I thought however means "on the contrary", my fault:
"Front projection surfaces will always look the same no matter where you move the object or which way you rotate it. The image does not normally stick to the surface. However, if you activate the Fixed Projection option (previously Sticky Projection), it fixes (i.e., locks) the projection from the camera’s perspective at the specified Time."


...., it's even true what you're asking has nothing to do with Camera Front Projection, being something related more to baking a texture to surfaces.

What I ask for is an option to fix a Front projection (a Texture Projection type) on a specific frame on the object (and I still find it useful).


And there's a cool way to get what you want. Take a look at this scene.
It uses a second camera parented to the object to make it work as you need. Of course Fixed Front Projection must be disabled in this case. ;)

Considering you can use as many cameras/images you want to map the same object, I can only imagine how useful this kind of setup can be for VFX or just to map an object using multiple real shots taken from different points of view. Or we can even use a real camera movie, with several front projection layers referencing different cameras, with Fixed Front Projection used to specify the right frame for each.

You can't see it in OpenGL, but VPR can show it.

Please can you explain how I can texture a multi part object that is animated with bullet with this setup. I donīt get it.
thanks and ciao
Thomas

lino.grandi
03-10-2013, 11:13 AM
Hi Lino,
my english isnīt so good, I thought however means "on the contrary", my fault:
"Front projection surfaces will always look the same no matter where you move the object or which way you rotate it. The image does not normally stick to the surface. However, if you activate the Fixed Projection option (previously Sticky Projection), it fixes (i.e., locks) the projection from the camera’s perspective at the specified Time."

Being italian, I can really get it as you did as well. ;)




What I ask for is an option to fix a Front projection (a Texture Projection type) on a specific frame on the object (and I still find it useful).

Yeah, got it. The answer for that it's still baking.



Please can you explain how I can texture a multi part object that is animated with bullet with this setup. I donīt get it.
thanks and ciao
Thomas

This method can't be used with parts objects (the one I used in the scene I sent).

I have to say this discussion gave me some cool ideas for a video about Front Projection mapping....

nickdigital
03-10-2013, 01:00 PM
that's the reason Worley have done Taft's Sticky Front Projection.

It'd be nice if LightWave had a native version.

50one
03-10-2013, 01:18 PM
It'd be nice if LightWave had a native version.

+1. also can anyone tell me how do you bake bullet sim in layout? MDD? and how to keyframe later on? Motion bake doesn't work and Mental Fish script doesn't seem to work either?

jeric_synergy
03-10-2013, 02:05 PM
+1. also can anyone tell me how do you bake bullet sim in layout? MDD? and how to keyframe later on? Motion bake doesn't work and Mental Fish script doesn't seem to work either?
I think that would better be covered in a new thread: and I'd like to read that too!

XswampyX
03-10-2013, 03:58 PM
Here's the final render. :) Had to cut down the quality a bit to get the render time down.

20 sec per frame. 720 frames.


http://youtu.be/Y9eef_DYl1c

Danner
03-10-2013, 06:51 PM
Xwampy, I dunno if it's just me, but both of your videos cut off just before the image forms.

geo_n
03-10-2013, 10:57 PM
XswampyX - nice work with the lightwave 11 box.

XswampyX
03-11-2013, 03:34 PM
Hello Danner, It's not you. I thought it was because the texture was projected on a flat axis and the lolly surface was at different heights..... Having looked into it, it's because I used linear interpolation on my UV mapping, not subpatch. Doh!
Thanks geo_n. :D

Here's the last image.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/Fallen_LPops_zpsfb24a559.jpg

Matt
03-11-2013, 04:21 PM
Very nice test indeed, so I guess the answer is, YES! you can do this in LightWave! :)

adk
03-12-2013, 06:13 PM
It'd be nice if LightWave had a native version.

... I mentioned this in post #12

While it's not native, Mike has included an experimental Sticky Front UV node as part of the db&w tools. It's a little "crashy" & I can't seem to make the texture stick at a time other than 0.
I tried reversing the MDD playback & even that doesn't work so I might need to ask Mike if that's to be expected & is a limitation or if I'm just not understanding something about the time reference input.

nickdigital
03-13-2013, 11:52 AM
... I mentioned this in post #12

While it's not native, Mike has included an experimental Sticky Front UV node as part of the db&w tools. It's a little "crashy" & I can't seem to make the texture stick at a time other than 0.
I tried reversing the MDD playback & even that doesn't work so I might need to ask Mike if that's to be expected & is a limitation or if I'm just not understanding something about the time reference input.

Ooh, didn't know about this. I'll have to look into this. Hopefully Mike can make it more stable.

jeric_synergy
03-13-2013, 11:58 AM
Trying to replicate xswampyx's technique, but my Bullet objects are 'wayyyy too poly heavy for my asthmatic computer.

Can one HardLink proxy objects from Bullet?

adk
03-13-2013, 04:44 PM
Ooh, didn't know about this. I'll have to look into this. Hopefully Mike can make it more stable.

Easy enough to miss :) It's hard enough to know all the nodes out there let alone use them in practice.
It's a very handy node & in theory I think it should work as expected - project & stick the texture to the object at a specified time & camera. If you haven't already - check out the scene I posted above.
I've emailed Mike so will report back with any updates.

PS: Great work XswampyX - I'm a big fan of all your examples & work !

DAMAKERS
03-13-2013, 11:05 PM
+1. also can anyone tell me how do you bake bullet sim in layout? MDD? and how to keyframe later on? Motion bake doesn't work and Mental Fish script doesn't seem to work either?

Just do your simulation, i prefer do it by jumping to the end frame of the animation by pressing [F] and entrering the number of the end frame, wait for the simulation is done, and then save the scene, it will save your simulation in a dynamic cache archive, inside the floder named "Dynamics" of your content directory path, never close the scene without saving it, cause will lose the simulation.

Each time you load ur scene, it will load the dynamic cache, if you reset the simulation, and run it again, then will have to save the scene again too.

You can use MDD Baker, but you will end with a larger file (dont know why), you have to do the simulation first and the bake it, wait untill the path and the file baked appear in the MDD Baker pluing or u may lose the data baked.

Cheers =)

Lightwolf
03-17-2013, 05:51 PM
While it's not native, Mike has included an experimental Sticky Front UV node as part of the db&w tools. It's a little "crashy" & I can't seem to make the texture stick at a time other than 0.
I tried reversing the MDD playback & even that doesn't work so I might need to ask Mike if that's to be expected & is a limitation or if I'm just not understanding something about the time reference input.
Thanks for pointing me at the thread. The "crashy" bit is something I'd certainly like to know about. ;)

As for it not seeing deformations (wherever they're from) that's a limitation of LW in this context. The main reason is that LW allows for retrieving the translation of an item for any time... but not the deformation for any time except the current one.
To make that work it might need a cache or direct MDD access and that was way beyond the scope of the node (as in: lines of code x 10 or so).

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
03-17-2013, 05:53 PM
Hopefully Mike can make it more stable.
If I got some bug reports and would actually be aware of the fact that it isn't... then I could. ;)

So far I didn't and wasn't. :D

Cheers,
Mike

adk
03-18-2013, 04:27 PM
Thanks for pointing me at the thread. The "crashy" bit is something I'd certainly like to know about. ;)

As for it not seeing deformations (wherever they're from) that's a limitation of LW in this context. The main reason is that LW allows for retrieving the translation of an item for any time... but not the deformation for any time except the current one.
To make that work it might need a cache or direct MDD access and that was way beyond the scope of the node (as in: lines of code x 10 or so).

Cheers,
Mike

Cheers for the explanation Mike & I'll get you that crashy scene as soon as I get a chance.