PDA

View Full Version : Very impressive! dDo



WilliamVaughan
03-04-2013, 01:18 PM
http://quixel.se/

hrgiger
03-04-2013, 02:25 PM
Interesting.

Waves of light
03-04-2013, 02:27 PM
I had a play with the demo, but couldn't get it to a stable enough point for me to enjoy it (PS CS4 issues).

I agree it looks impressive and it will certainly be of benefit to the gaming industry because of it's ability to take out the leg work with texturing objects, mainly roughing them up, grunge, etc. But one worry (which has been raised on other forums) is that it could lead to a raft of models that have that 'dDo' look, even with it's current range of surface presets and the ability to change a lot of layer details.

Marcia
03-04-2013, 02:50 PM
Doesn't run under OS X, and no immediate plans to port it, either. :/

jrandom
03-04-2013, 05:13 PM
Yep, lack of Mac support is depressing.

erikals
03-04-2013, 05:25 PM
thanks for the tip, made me take a second look. might get it in the near future.
seems to save a lot of time for those kind of things.

(log in at the forums and ask for a Mac version, at times it helps)

Sculley
03-04-2013, 06:15 PM
Seems very interesting... anyone had any good results with complex geometry meshes?

prometheus
03-04-2013, 09:32 PM
I saw this a quite some time ago...but havenīt checked in to it more yet, though it looks like eyecandy for rock creation work amongst a lot of other things.

Michael

Silkrooster
03-05-2013, 02:01 AM
Quite impressive.

WilliamVaughan
03-05-2013, 12:23 PM
I'v only used dDo for a short time but this software is AMAZING.... once you try it you'll want it without a doubt!

ConjureBunny
03-05-2013, 04:15 PM
Alright, the usefulness of this is starting to click.
Wow.

<grumble>no mac version</grumble>

-Chilton

Marcia
03-07-2013, 10:57 AM
I'v only used dDo for a short time but this software is AMAZING.... once you try it you'll want it without a doubt!

Hey, you're a name brand... can you ask them for a Mac version, pretty, pretty, please? Tell them you think it's essential, or something like that. :)

mummyman
03-07-2013, 12:33 PM
I'v only used dDo for a short time but this software is AMAZING.... once you try it you'll want it without a doubt!


Very cool! I'll have to check into it more. Do you use the Normal software as well? Or just the dDo?

WilliamVaughan
03-07-2013, 12:38 PM
nDo is simple to use and have amazingly great features.

stevecullum
03-10-2013, 05:07 AM
nDo is simple to use and have amazingly great features.

Is the process of exporting the correct maps from Lightwave straightforward or do you need to do some special prep work first?

WilliamVaughan
03-10-2013, 06:50 AM
Use the Surface ID Buffer in the Compositing Buffer export. it Will have a different rgb value per surface/material

stevecullum
03-10-2013, 07:47 AM
Thanks, I'll give that a go...

Waves of light
03-10-2013, 02:35 PM
Use the Surface ID Buffer in the Compositing Buffer export. it Will have a different rgb value per surface/material

Very clever... that will easily speed up the process.

geo_n
03-17-2013, 04:26 PM
Been looking at ddo and substance designer. They seem similar.
http://www.allegorithmic.com/

ActionBob
03-24-2013, 09:14 PM
Use the Surface ID Buffer in the Compositing Buffer export. it Will have a different rgb value per surface/material

As somebody who has spent most of the lightwave years (since 3.5) inside of the modeler aspect of it, is there a resource that could expand on using the buffers? I found what you were talking about and I can select surface id, but how do you export it for use in dDO? Do you just render out an F9 of the uvmapped object (altas style I would guess)? Select the surface id buffer that is rendered out and save that as your image you are importing into photoshop with dDO?

Sorry if this seems so easy for you all, but I have literally spent almost all my time in modeler over the years. I can do basic surfacing and lighting, but have never messed around with buffers. Just looking for a way to get this info into dDO if I decide to buy as it would save a lot of time on texture maps.

Thanks all for any response.

-Adrian

WilliamVaughan
03-24-2013, 09:20 PM
As somebody who has spent most of the lightwave years (since 3.5) inside of the modeler aspect of it, is there a resource that could expand on using the buffers? I found what you were talking about and I can select surface id, but how do you export it for use in dDO? Do you just render out an F9 of the uvmapped object (altas style I would guess)? Select the surface id buffer that is rendered out and save that as your image you are importing into photoshop with dDO?

Sorry if this seems so easy for you all, but I have literally spent almost all my time in modeler over the years. I can do basic surfacing and lighting, but have never messed around with buffers. Just looking for a way to get this info into dDO if I decide to buy as it would save a lot of time on texture maps.

Thanks all for any response.

-Adrian

This should help get you going:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePBoACS8fAc

Only difference is you'll want to use the 'Compositing Buffer Export" in LightWave 11 found in the same drop down menu.

ActionBob
03-24-2013, 09:24 PM
Thanks William. dDO looks like lots of fun to tinker with. And as I have mostly just built models for some modest contract work, I haven't spent a lot of time texturing. I will watch the vid you posted. thanks for that. I did find where everything is, was just wondering how to get the individual parts laid out from the buffer export. Anyway, thanks for the quick response.

-adrian

jeric_synergy
03-24-2013, 10:22 PM
I haven't, but I still find buffer use obscure and difficult.

geo_n
03-24-2013, 10:34 PM
Miyagi is graceously working on the best way to use dDo and lw together.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?96821-Texture-and-normal-map-baker/page10
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?96821-Texture-and-normal-map-baker&p=1311526#post1311526

ActionBob
03-25-2013, 08:26 AM
That is way cool of Miyagi. I was looking at his plugin and script and they would be quite useful. Looks like I will be getting dDO and nDO after all. Plus I like the looks of Miyagi's plug-in. Looks like my wallet is going to get a lot lighter. :-)

Thanks for the links to the other threads geo-n!

-Adrian

ActionBob
03-25-2013, 07:02 PM
I did have another question. dDO and nDO seem to be stand alone programs that work with photoshop. Are the licenses on a subscription base or is the fee for unlimited use of the program. the reason I am asking is that when reading the ToS agreement, it never refers to the program, but instead a service. Not much into subscriptions and I just want to make sure that the utility won't run out when the clock does.

Thanks.

-Adrian

ActionBob
03-25-2013, 07:57 PM
Looks like I answered my own question by registering on the site. It shows active licenses, reset license and days left. That is a shame. if it were a utility I could outright buy, then great. However, it looks like it is a subscription to use. Too bad.. Looks really cool, but I spend enough on this expensive, mostly hobby as it is. Renting software is not for me.... No thanks....

:-(

-Adrian

allabulle
03-25-2013, 08:57 PM
Looks like I answered my own question by registering on the site. It shows active licenses, reset license and days left. That is a shame. if it were a utility I could outright buy, then great. However, it looks like it is a subscription to use. Too bad.. Looks really cool, but I spend enough on this expensive, mostly hobby as it is. Renting software is not for me.... No thanks....

:-(

-Adrian

Ouch! That's a bummer for me too. I don't like to rent software either unless is absolutely indispensable.

nemofish
03-25-2013, 09:05 PM
This is so interesting for me.

wesleycorgi
03-27-2013, 05:48 PM
Been looking at ddo and substance designer. They seem similar.
http://www.allegorithmic.com/

It looks like the Unity Asset Store has Allegorithmic's Bitmap2Material on sale right now: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/?mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRokvq3KZKXonjHpfsX57uUvWKW0g 4kz2EFye%2BLIHETpodcMTsVmMK%2BTFAwTG5toziV8R7TFLs1 5ycYQWhTk#/content/5686

geo_n
03-27-2013, 08:49 PM
It looks like the Unity Asset Store has Allegorithmic's Bitmap2Material on sale right now: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/?mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRokvq3KZKXonjHpfsX57uUvWKW0g 4kz2EFye%2BLIHETpodcMTsVmMK%2BTFAwTG5toziV8R7TFLs1 5ycYQWhTk#/content/5686

I'm using shadermap pro which is similar to bitmap2material
http://shadermap.com/buynow/

erikals
03-27-2013, 11:51 PM
hope Miyagi can put together a small video to show the features...

Hail
03-28-2013, 04:24 AM
Looks really great!
Seems like a worthy adversary for Mari ;)

ActionBob
03-29-2013, 10:01 PM
Ouch! That's a bummer for me too. I don't like to rent software either unless is absolutely indispensable.



Seems I was mistaken.. the time left remaining counter was for those using the trial version. I bought nDO and once you activate the program, there is no timer. So, if it looks interesting to you, then go for it. I have only made a few maps with nDO, but it is pretty cool. I might pick up dDO next payday.

:-)

-Adrian

allabulle
03-30-2013, 06:05 PM
Good to know. I'll check the thing, then. Thanks for the update, Adrian.

tburbage
03-31-2013, 01:03 PM
I watched most of the videos for dDo and nDo before posting. Wow. If you like working in Photoshop, both of these plugins look like no-brainers for high-res game or off-line render project texturing artists. That one video where he literally creates a high res detail panel by "painting" a normal map was fascinating.

William, I'd be interested in learning more about how you integrate them into your production workflow. I imagine you also use ZBrush, so I'm curious how/if dDo (and nDo if you use that) change the way you use ZB.

zapper1998
04-01-2013, 01:54 PM
Does dDO do the Normal Maps also..

erikals
04-01-2013, 01:58 PM
from what i saw, nope...

edit: i stand corrected...

WilliamVaughan
04-01-2013, 02:03 PM
Does dDO do the Normal Maps also..


Ndo creates normal maps... Ddo uses normal, AO, color, etc maps to drive the procedural texturing.

For low rez models you need a normal map in Ddo... for High Rez you can simply use an AO map.

ActionBob
04-18-2013, 06:39 PM
Anyone know of a way to assign materials from the .fbx file like in the video tutorial for dDO? I understand that Lightwave has an .fbx exporter, but as far as importing? I was just wondering how to get some good base materials down before running the plug-in. I will try just using a AH map baked to the UV cooridnates and see if that works. Just got the plug-in and wanting to play....

-Adrian

Surrealist.
08-06-2013, 04:40 AM
oops spoke too soon, see you had it sorted.

Surrealist.
08-06-2013, 06:22 AM
Anyone know of a way to assign materials from the .fbx file like in the video tutorial for dDO? I understand that Lightwave has an .fbx exporter, but as far as importing? I was just wondering how to get some good base materials down before running the plug-in. I will try just using a AH map baked to the UV cooridnates and see if that works. Just got the plug-in and wanting to play....

-Adrian


Just in case this is still a question with anyone, you could always open the FBX file as a scene, then go into modeler and stick in the layer of your object, or even export it as a.lwo for later use. From there then make your surface assignments to selections as you see fit.

But the simplicity is that this is merely arbitrary. Getting a clean color map in UV space of each surface is what you need which is why the Surface ID is a good idea. Then in dDo all you have to do is choose the material from the Quick Reflectance on a surface by surface basis. You don't really need to have the colors assigned correctly.

Alternatively simply assign surfaces to the selected parts as I describe above, then take the model into Layout and use the surface baking camera. Turn off all lights and shadows and turn the Lights ambient intensity to 100%

Set your camera image size to your target map for example 2048 x 2048.

Then in the surface baker options, depending on the scale of your model, adjust the "offset from surface" value. The larger the model the higher the number. I have a default of 100um but it took a setting of 2M to get a clean map on an airplane wing. Also make sure "bake surroundings" is not checked.

From my tests this should give you a clean bake of separate colors. But since dDo is looking for specific RGB values it would take more editing photoshop first to be compatible with the materials. But again you can always add those manually later in dDo.

Lamont
08-06-2013, 06:30 PM
I agree it looks impressive and it will certainly be of benefit to the gaming industry because of it's ability to take out the leg work with texturing objects, mainly roughing them up, grunge, etc. But one worry (which has been raised on other forums) is that it could lead to a raft of models that have that 'dDo' look, even with it's current range of surface presets and the ability to change a lot of layer details.This is true. There will be a rash of models with that "dDo" look. But in the right hands it makes some aspects of the texture creation process painless. I use nDo a lot because I combine and add details too much of a PITA to do in zBrush (with proper blending), then take over to dDo and add to maps that I already baked from xNormal. You still need and SHOULD go in and paint your details. A program can only do so much. And there is a sale going on for those of you sitting on the fence. Or at least the codes might still work.

While we are on the subject of normals and other do-dads: Check out Handplane (http://www.handplane3d.com/)(because not all renderers use normal maps the same).

jasonwestmas
08-06-2013, 06:42 PM
yes, I think of these quick texturing tools like dDo and the nodal power of substance designer as high frequency detail and pattern tools. Kind of like what ZB noise maker is supposed to be but much more flexible because you're always working at a pixel level. Not so with zbrush. Zbrush does it's own thing quite well which is general carving, paneling, pushing and pulling.

Surrealist.
08-06-2013, 08:44 PM
Theoretically another thing you can do is create different patterned maps from dDo, basically different types of detail and then load these into something like Mudbox and paint a mask on a layer to place it into parts of the object and layer effects. Something you are limited with in dDo because environment effects are applied across the entire map. And surface detail is applied per UV space you specify and no way to fade effects over the model in 3D independent of the UV map co-ordinance. So masking in 3D would be one way to randomize and break up the model to give it a more unique look. You could do that in PS but clearly more intuitive in a 3D painting app that uses layers and layer masks. So in effect it would be like painting a stencil that is already pre-wrapped in UV space. This is one of the limitations I have run into with dDo that I have not found any solution for within the program itself. Unless there is something I missed.

Waves of light
08-07-2013, 01:58 AM
Well, I'm building a new rig next week, so I will download the demo on that and have another play. Couldn't get it to work on my current rig, which is a bit past it, so hopefully I will be able to have a better evaluation.

No summer special price on dDo at the moment, just nDo2.

Lamont
08-12-2013, 01:52 AM
@ Surrealist - You can mask in dDo however you want.

Surrealist.
08-12-2013, 05:49 AM
Can you elaborate on that? I mean I am aware you can mask the layers within photoshop - if you cared to. But there is no global masking/layering of effects I am aware of within the plugin itself. Unless I missed something.

Lamont
08-12-2013, 06:11 AM
You don't really "layer" effects in nDo unless you are aiming for a specific shader for your engine, and you won't be able to see the output because you are aiming for something that isn't available in nDo by default *even though the base shader in the previewer is nice*. Masking (like masking matte plastic area vs glossed area) can be done in Photoshop/Your3DAppOfChoice using material definitions, nDo then processes these using the presets/customs. And then from there you fine tune and paint in more details.

If this is what you mean, I hope it clears it up. If not please show more of what you mean and I can make an example file and send.

Surrealist.
08-12-2013, 07:50 AM
You mean dDo of course not ndo. Maybe it was not clear in earlier my post or maybe you did not read that one. But I assume all of what you said as a given. On top of that, knowing all of that, there is no way to mask or fade off effects over the object space of a model that I am aware of. Some effects use the object space normals but that is different. If you wanted to say have an environment effect start on the front of the model and fad off as it goes back there is no way to do that I am aware of at least with ease of control. I do remember there are some ways to control it but not to the degree I am talking about globally. Or to fade different environment effects over each other by controlling which parts of the model get these effects. There are some ways to sort of control certain things with OS normals but this is not the same thing. Or even to have different levels of environment effects masked on different parts of the model. This is something I noticed as a limitation from working with it on a project where I wanted more dirt on some parts of the model than others. I had to take the 2 output files with different levels of environment effects into Photoshop and mask out parts of it so I could control the global amount of effect - not based on the material - but on the object itself.

So my idea was to take these into a 3D paint app instead where you could then mask out the effects my painting on the model interactively to give the client what he needed.

Perhaps that clears up what I mean better. Open to the fact that (with this in mind) I may have missed something.

zippitt
08-12-2013, 07:19 PM
After playing around with more complex meshes I kind of see where surrealist is coming from, it's most apparent when dealing with UV seams. If the textures effects are large enough they do not overlap properly with the corresponding UV seam and it makes them pretty obvious. If there was an option to blend or decrease the effect as it approached a UV seam that is a non-edge it would work better.

Also things like edge wear will show up in places that don't make sense depending on how your object is cut up, like in acute angles instead of obtuse. If you are creating non-game assets this isn't much of a problem as you can waste more UV space to get the control you want. But to use this app effectively it would seem one needs to take more consideration on how you use your UVs.

I could get away with this in something such as 3DCoat because you paint adjacent seams at the same time, dDo seems to just use complex Photoshop filters that are not UV seam intelligent.

Surrealist.
08-13-2013, 01:32 AM
Yeah, indeed another element you have to deal with. On one project I have UV layouts given to me I can not change as it has some normal maps already painted. Basically I have to go back and use the heal brush on the output file to get rid of the unwanted seams where grunge had collected along the edge. So when I am unwrapping my own objects I take this into account. The UV Mapping here is key.

Seems to me that the bulk of the work with dDo is - first understanding how and why - then planning and the set up of the UV layout and mapping. Then the AO baking which the more complex the object, the more this is a factor. Also with objects that have lots of overlapping parts that may or may not be animated, I find I have to make an exploded version of the object to bake out the color map because the baking fails where parts are overlapped. Same with the AO Bake, you can not have overlapping parts in the mapping process. This is more apparent with mechanical parts that will move. If you do not explode them apart during the baking process they will have AO "frozen in position" which is not what you want for something that moves. Another post fix if you do not plan correctly.

So dDo is great but like any "automated" process it will have limitations and in the end for more fine control you have to find ways to do things manually. Still even with that taken into account it is a great time saver.

Surrealist.
09-02-2013, 04:59 PM
Something I just figured out. And it is an interesting tip that I thought would be useful. When I noticed that the dirt build up seemed to be attracted to the edges of the UV seams I knew that it had to be following a map. But I got side tracked onto other things and never figured out which map it was. But so I figured it out finally it is the color map which usually will follow the seams of the UV map if you bake it in or export it to a UV map as in LightWave.

Of course if you plan your seams you won't have too much of a problem. But I noticed that this it it not really practical in all cases the more complex and especially rounded the object is, you might have several seams in places you don't want. Also real complex hard surfaces objects need a lot of seams.

So the solution is leave yourself room around the edges of the UV map in the places where you need it. And go back in and paint over the seams in Photoshop with the same color of that region. So that there is not an end to the color at the seam. It goes past far enough so the build up is outside of the UV space for that island.

If this is not clear here is two images. One with the color map and the seams it does by default and another with the seams painted over solid.

Surrealist.
10-03-2013, 02:13 PM
By the way I just finished up a project using dDo and I had to more or less eventually come up with my own strategy that worked well when dealing with revisions from the client as well as controlling which parts of the model got what effects. Basically doing a lot of masking in Photoshop in a separate file. I'll probably write up the process at some point but here are a few images from that project in a gallery:

http://www.akinema.com/

Dodgy
10-03-2013, 10:38 PM
I'd be more impressed surrealist if the gallery worked. I'm using FF with noscript and ad block and even disabling both I'm just getting a blank page....

geo_n
10-03-2013, 11:51 PM
Some Defiance asset done with ndo
http://www.quixel.se/forum/showthread.php?3943-Defiance-Environment-Art-Dump

http://www.quixel.se/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1261&d=1373870632



nice armor texturing

http://www.quixel.se/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=944&d=1368497555

Surrealist.
10-03-2013, 11:54 PM
I'd be more impressed surrealist if the gallery worked. I'm using FF with noscript and ad block and even disabling both I'm just getting a blank page....

lol wow. Thanks for the feedback. When you say blank page do you mean the gallery or the whole site? Because the link is to my web page that has a gallery on it.

I have no idea why that is. I created it with FF and it works for me with FF.

Please, anyone else?

What you should be seeing is this the attached image.

With more info I might be able to contact tech support and get it sorted.

Dodgy
10-04-2013, 12:55 AM
I looked it up on explorer and it worked, very nice :)

But with FF, I had no script working and adblock plus and just a blank white page came up. I tried enabling scripts and ads, and cookies, and still nothing :P

Surrealist.
10-04-2013, 01:51 AM
OK. thanks. And I'll also look into it over at Wix and see if I can find something to sort the potential issue for some FF users.