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View Full Version : OLD SCHOOL: What do you guys miss from the AMIGA days?



robertoortiz
02-21-2013, 12:41 PM
This is a thread for those who have been in CG FOR A LONG time.

(ahem, like me)
Anyway I was thinking how simple things and intuitive things felt in the amiga days.

I miss programs like Deluxe Paint IV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1KC4tYkteo


since it was INCREDIBLY easy program to do animation with.

also I miss how intuitive the toolsets from Amiga Vision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7KIZQzYSls

Of ever better the classic animation toolset from Disney Animation Studio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSeYivHZpB8


IT is sad that the PC won the computer wars. The AMIGa was really a computer ahead of its time.



So how about you guys?

-R

DELTA DIGITAL
02-21-2013, 01:00 PM
I would love to see where the Amiga would have been today...

Ryan Roye
02-21-2013, 01:02 PM
...I can't look at an amiga interface and not think of Space Quest IV and all those other Sierra games.

02-21-2013, 01:07 PM
Dpaint!

I tried to explain color cycling to my students. ha!

And Roberto, gonna take issue with one piece of what you say and go off point...

The marketing is what the problem was, and is, as can be seen in your "PC" comment.
Why is it WinTel boxes of old are the only things called a PC? IBM marketed the "PC,jr." to us and we STILL haven't let it go! My phone is a PC. So is a linux box. And a Mac is DEFINITELY a PC, with the Intel inside label and all!

A raspberry pi makes a real nice kiddie/modder PC.

The Amiga died because it wasn't a "PC". (Be for real! It died because of the (^(^&)& at Commodore!)
It was better, but not a PC.


Why don't they call a tablet a PC? Surely it is...

art
02-21-2013, 01:13 PM
CG was still relatively young and Amiga allowed us to get some of the super cool graphics right in our homes without the need of real supercomputers. I don't remember how many times I rendered a mirror sphere or a cone on a checkered background. The animated Newton's cradle was one of the coolest things to look at. CG is still only a hobby of mine, but times are certainly different. I miss all the excitement.

I remember creating pictures in DP, pixel by pixel. Who does that anymore?

robertoortiz
02-21-2013, 01:46 PM
Ok 10 point who knows who Eric Schwartz is....

And did you know that he still animates with the Amiga? (from 2008)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mg6wrYCT9Q

fazi69
02-21-2013, 02:47 PM
Everything except guru and noname disks with bad sectors eating my protracker modules.
Best thing on Amiga ? DEMOSCENE !!!!

If You miss DeluxePaint my friend there is even better solution. It is called TV Paint 3.6 which if my memory serves me well is freeware now. It is with me from my first PC to this day.
PM me if You have problems finding it. it is smaller than 800kb :-) I never used it in native amiga env because it was attached to some insane GFX card back then and in 90-96 when I was proud Amiga user it was hard to me to buy color monitor.

Oh... I forgot ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDrICN4UJoA - I`m sure that Amiga creators have no idea what this machine can do.

SBowie
02-21-2013, 02:56 PM
Ok 10 point who knows who Eric Schwartz is....]Are there bonus points for knowing who Amy the Squirrel is? :)

I started with DPaint, like so many others, but was seduced by Brilliance eventually. It was probably ARexx that changed my life, though. My very first ever contribution to the community is still online: http://aminet.net/package/biz/swood/FinalFax95

Sensei
02-21-2013, 03:19 PM
Directory Opus 5...

shrox
02-21-2013, 05:24 PM
I remember people having no idea what the hell I was talking about, then blowing them away with color cycling.

dickbill
02-21-2013, 05:33 PM
Dpaint, Imagine, Compiled Basic...

SBowie
02-21-2013, 05:37 PM
And Scala!

shrox
02-21-2013, 05:38 PM
I hated Smacker.

fazi69
02-21-2013, 05:42 PM
And Scala!

Scala is still available for PC. They have awful web page where is hard to understand what they even selling but few weeks ago I saw one working and it is still good old Scala.

SBowie
02-21-2013, 06:03 PM
Yes, I know. They went pretty high end years back, though, compared to the old days.

COBRASoft
02-21-2013, 06:06 PM
Scala, AdPro, ImageFX, PageStream, BlitzBasic, DOpus, TurboPrint, Final Writer, SnoopDOS, Diavolo Backup (was so good with zip drives), YAM, MUI, DrawStudio (really miss this one), ...

I also miss the AGA demo's from back then on my miggy 1200. Unbelievable what they achieved with so little.

sublimationman
02-21-2013, 06:42 PM
Eric Schwartz and the Juggler animation is what got me hooked on 3D. Saw it at our local Amiga user group.

Who remembers PAR Personal Animation Recorder... First way to complete animations so you could actually view them on the computer in real time without outputting to tape.

sublimationman
02-21-2013, 06:46 PM
Oh and Jim Saches beyond beautiful artwork he created on the Amiga. I paid to go to a seminar by him once at Amiga World.

dwburman
02-21-2013, 07:03 PM
For me it was the sense of community, the way I generally understood what was going on with the OS files ... or at least the folder structure, the friendly names of the coprocessors and other chip, and the sense of excitement and smug superiority. ;)

The bootloader programs that'd start nearly right away were pretty cool too.

There are plenty of things I don't miss too, but that's mostly just because so much more is possible now. Waiting for pictures to draw on the screen is annoying... and I'm not even talking about rendering.

COBRASoft
02-21-2013, 07:17 PM
Oh yes, boot from anything like zip drive, external scsi drives, ... Copy your system for backup and start from there if you needed too.

fazi69
02-21-2013, 07:33 PM
The day I will become ruthless dictator and a ruler of this planet will be the day of Amiga comeback by one of my first executive orders :-) Other one will be total ban of pictographs in any computer user interface ... punishable by death ! So ... guy who made new functions in the modeler 11.5 should remember that those orange squares in the corner move You pretty close to hanging. But added features are awesome so maybe I will pardon You ;-)

BigHache
02-21-2013, 07:42 PM
I miss demos on the Amiga. They were always fun, colorful, and fit on a floppy.

shrox
02-21-2013, 07:53 PM
Yeah, I am fat with the storage, baby.

111815

SBowie
02-21-2013, 08:39 PM
Oh and Jim Sahes beyond beautiful artwork he created on the Amiga. I paid to go to a seminar by him once at Amiga World.Ever see his dpaint animation of 20,000 leagues under the sea? Amazing! It was a multimedia talk he gave at WOA in Toronto that made me realize I could make money with my 'miggy.

Surrealist.
02-21-2013, 08:58 PM
Yeah I miss that Disney program. I thought that was cool.

Studio 16 - way way head of its time. The poor man's Protools. Used that to edit the sound and music to a 16mm feature film. With a very cool feature of a SIMPTE IN what I did was - this is crazy - but I actually went to a film post production house and had them record a reel of smpte time code to a mag track (This was before digital editing was even affordable at all) and took the mag track and loaded it up on my flat bed editor. So what I had was my 16mm film with clapper and all of that, and my mag track. What I did was output SMPTE through the headphone jack of the flatbed and input into the Amiga Studio 16 card in my Amiga 2000. I had used a Nagra to digitize all of the sound tracks onto a hard drive in my Amiga. When I would hit play on the flatbed, the SMPTE would trigger the timeline in the Sudio 16 and start it playing in sync with the flatbed.

I then proceeded to cut the picture on the flatbed and edit the sound nonlinear in my Sudio 16. What I was able to do was put together a rough cut with layered sound effects an music. Pretty cool.

Years before that there was Bars and Pipes and of course the PAR. I used my Sdudio 16, Bars and Pipes and the PAR to cut my short film digitally, score the music, layer non linear sound and effects Foley etc. All on my little Amiga with 16 Megs or ram and the equivalent of a 486 processor in 1994. I think that those prosumer tools were way ahead of their time. The only other options back then were the cost prohibitive Avid and ProTools.

It was very hard to take PC's seriously until the Pentium that pretty changed rendering. But on the audio/video side, really that was the biggest loss from the Amiga side. Way way ahead of its time.

For instance even though I was using my PC for rendering, I was still using the old Amiga for all of that post production work on my 16mm film.

roboman
02-21-2013, 09:32 PM
The hardware/software was amazing and did so much with so little. Every time I have to program on the pc, or a controller, I'm annoyed at the lack of a simple hardware blitter. Hardware sprites were also great. Not much use in 3d work though. I guess the really big thing was the newness. Something new and mind blowing was always right around the corner. It was a very clean system design.

shrox
02-21-2013, 11:22 PM
What was the "Night Flight" intro done with back then? SGIs?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cV9nM0UhUE

cyroz
02-22-2013, 01:00 AM
Yeah, I miss my 1200, had the chance to buy it when amiga was already "dead" a 1200 + blizzard accelerator (ppc)
I miss soft like DPaint, Pro Paint, DOpus....
And most of all the ram disk!!!

Sensei
02-22-2013, 01:49 AM
SnoopDos is possible to write on Windows. I even wrote one by myself.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111826&d=1361522852

RAM disk is possible on Windows.
Virtual Daemon is doing very similar.
There is needed just ability to change content of files and you have RAM disk..

Waves of light
02-22-2013, 03:00 AM
Lemmings.... and Dpaint.

Danner
02-22-2013, 03:15 AM
The only thing I miss is how easy you could make a living at CG and how easy it was to impress clients with simple animations. 3d was difficult, but expectations were much lower. I made a living making flying logos for a few years, I would use shadows sparingly and always used reflection maps, raytraced reflections and shadows could make my logos render for days. I was bold enough to make an animation with every bell and whistle turned on. That took one day to render PER FRAME.
Let's see that 68040 processor ran at 40mhz. And I have now two processors with 8 cores each running at 2,600 mhz, that is 41,600ghz total. Not counting hyperthreading, instructions per cycle, and other variants, just per mhz, I have a machine now that is over a thousand times faster. Amazing huh?

COBRASoft
02-22-2013, 03:24 AM
DOpus exists for Windows too, I use it all the time. It has even become better than on Amiga.

SBowie
02-22-2013, 06:31 AM
Yeah, I miss my 1200My first 'miggy was a 500, followed by a 4000, but I did love the 1200 I added later. It was a little miracle of portability and power. And it's true that the community was remarkable. Honestly, about the only sizable one that has ever seemed to approach it to me is this one (probably due to so much shared from the outset).

Sensei
02-22-2013, 06:34 AM
Who remember our Fblit and Fscreen for PowerPC allowing to store Bitmap data in fast ram instead of chip ram.. ?

It was simulating Amiga graphics chipset blitter using cpu.

Kaptive
02-22-2013, 07:26 AM
Anyone rememeber Tobias Richter? He created Star Trek vids and sci fi based 3D stuff. It seemed quite impressive at the time...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QFOKVOp2rs

Edit: And he has a youtube channel, and is doing similar stuff today, but with much better tech obviously. Wonder if he uses Lightwave? (Edit Maya apparently. Watching his new stuff, he has come a long long way. Amazing Star Trek stuff actually)

http://www.youtube.com/user/tlwtobiasrichter/videos?view=0

kosmodave
02-22-2013, 08:26 AM
Any chance you will make MonitorFiles available to the public Sensei? Snoopdos is one program I miss very much when i have problems with a corrupt program.

Dave

marvinl
02-22-2013, 08:30 AM
This thread mentions a few names you will find here:

http://www.randelshofer.ch/animations/amiga.html

SBowie
02-22-2013, 09:04 AM
This thread mentions a few names you will find here:

http://www.randelshofer.ch/animations/amiga.htmlOdd that NewTek isn't listed among the companies, but I guess there are numerous others missing too.

Sensei
02-22-2013, 09:12 AM
Any chance you will make MonitorFiles available to the public Sensei? Snoopdos is one program I miss very much when i have problems with a corrupt program.

Mine app is monitoring what files were saved, changed, created, renamed.

Not which files were opened and failed..

If DLL is available, file with it will be opened and read fine, but then DLL will try to initialize, and it might find it can't initialize and return failure and refuse opening and joining with application loading that library. Program for monitoring file activity won't detect it (after all DLL file was opened fine).

Monitoring all disk activity including opening files and reading files is flood of data, any reading registry is causing event.
Programs can open and read hundred files per second and read thousands registry per second.
On unix it's even worser btw, because monitoring f.e. cpu temperature is reading file with such data ;)

It requires .NET Framework v3.5+. It's built-in Win7.

kosmodave
02-22-2013, 09:24 AM
Thanks for the reply Sensei, I do miss my amiga at times. DPaintIV was superb as was SCALA.

Dave

BeeVee
02-22-2013, 09:30 AM
The Amiga was my fifth computer, but my first love. :) I was the editor of the biggest-selling Amiga magazine Amiga Format when it sold 232,000 copies with a coverdisk of Imagine 2. Five years later it closed while it was still selling 11,423 issues a month and I was there too. One thing I miss is the intelligence of Workbench. Just because you named an IFF image "image.txt" Workbench would actually look at the headers to determine that it was a picture when you double clicked on it and act accordingly, unlike Windows and the Mac who get really confused if you change extension. My last Amiga was an A4000T with a CyberStorm 060, 128 MB RAM and a Picasso IV - running LightWave of course... ;)

B

kosmodave
02-22-2013, 10:46 AM
I had that issue of Amiga Format with the Imagine 2 coverdisk, that's what got me into 3D stuff. Amiga format was one of the few magazines that I read cover to cover and was the second best mag after CRASH magazine. Three cheers for the speccy too.

Dave

- - - Updated - - -

I had that issue of Amiga Format with the Imagine 2 coverdisk, that's what got me into 3D stuff. Amiga format was one of the few magazines that I read cover to cover and was the second best mag after CRASH magazine. Three cheers for the speccy too.

Dave

shrox
02-22-2013, 10:53 AM
Well, I do have the distinction of turning down a free Video Toaster because I didn't know what it was...

safetyman
02-22-2013, 10:55 AM
Photon Paint, TurboSilver, and Sculpt/Animate 4D... *sigh* the good 'ol days.

shrox
02-22-2013, 11:06 AM
The only thing I miss is how easy you could make a living at CG and how easy it was to impress clients with simple animations. 3d was difficult, but expectations were much lower. I made a living making flying logos for a few years, I would use shadows sparingly and always used reflection maps, raytraced reflections and shadows could make my logos render for days. I was bold enough to make an animation with every bell and whistle turned on. That took one day to render PER FRAME.
Let's see that 68040 processor ran at 40mhz. And I have now two processors with 8 cores each running at 2,600 mhz, that is 41,600ghz total. Not counting hyperthreading, instructions per cycle, and other variants, just per mhz, I have a machine now that is over a thousand times faster. Amazing huh?

Yes, I did graphics for video slot and poker machines in the late 80's. EPROMs man, EPROMs. Being a "CG" artist then meant popping chips in and out of boards to see if you got it right. I often had to fit a girl in the splash screen graphics, and with 16 colors, they were usually orange...red and yellow dithering at best.

jwiede
02-23-2013, 12:15 AM
Are there bonus points for knowing who Amy the Squirrel is? :)
And sympathy points if we remember Jim Drew? ;)

jwiede
02-23-2013, 12:18 AM
Directory Opus 5...
Just for the record, DirOpus is still alive and kicking on Windows (it's up to v10 now), and is an excellent Explorer replacement program, much more efficient than even the Windows Explorer in Win8 (IMO, anyway). It's slightly pricier than some of the other Explorer replacements, but much more powerful as well. Highly recommend it!

Surrealist.
02-23-2013, 02:26 AM
Also another interesting note. Anyone remember that "Works" program?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_productivity_software


Amiga lacked an office suite as the term is meant now, but integrated software was available. Pen Pal was a word processor integrated with a database and a form editor. Scribble!, Analyze! and Organize! were bundled together as the Works! suite combining a word processor, spreadsheet and database. Despite the similarity in name, it had no connection to Microsoft Works.

I assumed it got bought by Microsoft. But apparently not.

Another one for me was Adpro. And a batch processing plugin for that, or another app I can'd remember. And also that procedural generator, Forge I think it was called. Before we had those in LightWave textures.

fablefox
02-23-2013, 05:47 AM
I missed Future Crew

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Crew

http://pouet.net/groups.php?which=51

Oh sorry, the topic was about Amiga, not C64.

Uhh... then I missed Amiga Action

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Action
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amigaction.html

(I think me and my brother bought two, even though we don't have Amiga. We are saving money, but once we have enough, it was PC days...)

dwburman
02-23-2013, 05:00 PM
I never had the cash for the higher end systems. I went A500, A1000 (can't remember why I went backwards now... other than I liked the keyboard garage and I picked up the genlock), A600, & finally A1200 after Commodore went bust. I had to wait months for my A1200 and for some reason the composite video out doesn't do color. I added on some accelerator with memory, I think. Perhaps just the FPU. I don't know the details anymore. I do still have the machine, though... with it's 115MB external HDD stuffed full of stuff. :)

I finally caved and got a Windows box around 1997.

dsol
02-24-2013, 10:02 AM
Seeing the decline of the Amiga after the collapse of Commodore (though it was falling behind before then) was truly heartbreaking. It signalled the death of "bedroom computing" amongst me and my friends and the PC and Mac were very, very different platforms from it - very corporate and expensive, and not much fun!

The amiga was fast, cheap, had great graphics and sound capabilities (for its day) and a very nifty lightweight multitasking OS. Most importantly, it was bundled with awesome creative tools like Dpaint (and later PPaint). And making music in NoiseTracker and OctaMED was so easy and tons of fun. It's sad that modern computers still don't come with those kind of tools as standard (where's the paint & animation app in iLife Apple?). It inspired a generation of computer artists, musicians and coders. And there's not been anything quite like it since.

dsol
02-24-2013, 10:04 AM
For extra added sadness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHI7_pU0y70

paulk
02-24-2013, 11:11 AM
I remember a John Dvorak column about AmigaDOS, with which he was highly impressed, especially the size (or lack there of) of the OS. The tag line of the column was something like "There's very little that a memory-hogging, CD ROM-loading OS [Windows] can do that AmigaDOS can't. Tight code. There's nothing like it".

True that.

SBowie
02-24-2013, 11:20 AM
Carl Sassenrath was (is, no doubt) one smart cookie. And from my limited correspondence with him 'back in the day', a nice fellow to boot. (I've always meant to spend a little time plunking about in REBOL, just on general principles.)

COBRASoft
02-24-2013, 11:39 AM
Just remembered the E language. Has anybody developed in that? It was very easy and quite fast too. The nostalgia is raising again here :)!

dwburman
02-24-2013, 01:41 PM
History of the Amiga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfTIrJu7NbE

I hadn't seen this one before and I was always kind of ticked when watching documentaries on the history of the personal computer that completely ignored Commodore and the Amiga.

Cageman
02-24-2013, 02:18 PM
Just for the record, DirOpus is still alive and kicking on Windows (it's up to v10 now), and is an excellent Explorer replacement program, much more efficient than even the Windows Explorer in Win8 (IMO, anyway). It's slightly pricier than some of the other Explorer replacements, but much more powerful as well. Highly recommend it!

Yes!

I'm using it both at home and at work and it is a fantastic tool. There is also a free plugin that adds tons of fileformats to it.

The only one missing is .EXR... but man, I'm glad I can view all the .HDR files directly in DOpus now. :)

http://www.zwickysoft.com/products/opus_plugins/dvp_ugv.htm

Which reminds me... I should donate some money to them for adding such a fantastic plugin to DOpus.

Cageman
02-24-2013, 02:30 PM
Oh.. and I have to share my Amiga specs that I had around the year 2000.

A1200 in an Elbox Tower, Blizzard 1260/50MHz with SCSI-controller and 256MB fast RAM, Elbox Mediator PCI with 4x PCI-slots where I had a Voodoo 3 3000 16MB GFX-card with 3D-acceleration and a Soundblaster 128 soundcard. From time to time I switched my Blizzard 1260/50 with my Blizzard PowerPC accelerator that had a 040/25MHz CPU and a 200MHz PowerPC 603e processor. This one was extremely nice to use when playing Quake or encoding MP3s. I also had 80GB of HD-space, using an Elbox Fast-IDE controller. I also switched out my filesystem to use SmartFileSystem that was soo much more efficient compared to FastFileSystem. I had dualboots of AmigaOS 3.1 and 3.9...

Those were the days when computers actually were fun and still somewhat magical.. it was love...

:)

SBowie
02-24-2013, 03:13 PM
I also switched out my filesystem to use SmartFileSystem ... Which reminds me of disk validation errors, and - Disk Salve!

Sensei
02-24-2013, 03:17 PM
I don't know whether you know it: Elbox company is located in Schindler's factory (yes, the one from Spielberg movie)..

and it's 2 km from here.

MarcusM
02-24-2013, 03:49 PM
I don't know whether you know it: Elbox company is located in Schindler's factory (yes, the one from Spielberg movie)..

and it's 2 km from here.

I did not know that in this times is available hardware for Amiga. They still produce parts:
http://www.elbox.com/products.html
http://shop.elbox.com/cgibin/shop?show=2BB

ivanze
02-24-2013, 04:04 PM
Did anyone use a program called CanDo? You could make programs very easy with that. It was like amigavision if Im not wrong.

stone
02-24-2013, 04:23 PM
liked dpaint but loved brilliance when it came out. I miss reading amigaformat and cu amiga, mainly the awesomeness of real3d and lightwave competing, being the highend programs out of grasp while I struggled to learn imagine and cinema4d.

and I stuck with my amigas until 2001 and still miss the perfect, sensible and lightweight operatingsystem and gui. currently use windows but only because other operatingsystems suck even more.

dsol
02-24-2013, 05:55 PM
History of the Amiga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfTIrJu7NbE

I hadn't seen this one before and I was always kind of ticked when watching documentaries on the history of the personal computer that completely ignored Commodore and the Amiga.

I read "On the edge: the rise and fall of Commodore (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0973864966/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0973864966&linkCode=as2&tag=digitadistor-21">Commodore: A Company on the Edge 2nd Edition</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.co.uk/e/ir?t=digitadistor-21&l=as2&o=2&a=0973864966)" a few years back. An absolutely fascinating book, which helps dispel the myth that the computing revolution was started by Apple and Microsoft. Commodore was like Apple in 2013 back in 1983 - except with possibly even greater vertical integration. I mean, they owned the 6502 - the most popular (and powerful) 8bit CPU of that time. And they sold it to their competitors (including Apple)- while using that advantage to crush them on price and performance. The C64 was absolutely nuts!
The latest version of that book is here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0973864966/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0973864966&linkCode=as2&tag=digitadistor-21">Commodore: A Company on the Edge 2nd Edition</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.co.uk/e/ir?t=digitadistor-21&l=as2&o=2&a=0973864966) - I highly recommend it to anyone with an interest in the history of home computing!

SBowie
02-24-2013, 06:07 PM
Did anyone use a program called CanDo? You could make programs very easy with that.I had a copy; never really got into it though.

Cageman
02-24-2013, 06:31 PM
I don't know whether you know it: Elbox company is located in Schindler's factory (yes, the one from Spielberg movie)..

and it's 2 km from here.

That IS cool! They (Elbox) and Phase5 (Germany) have done some of the best and most inspired quality hardware/software solutions for the Amiga.

Cageman
02-24-2013, 06:32 PM
Which reminds me of disk validation errors, and - Disk Salve!

Haha... yeah... irony at its best is that FastFileSystem was far from fast... if you would go into a directory with a couple of thousand files, FastFileSystem was extremely slow. SmartFileSystem, however, listed such a directory in a second or two. :)

Sensei
02-24-2013, 06:42 PM
Dislocation of catalog data means safer data - if they're located in one continuous region, it's very easy to loose it. when they're spread across entire volume, there would be needed complete format with 0 data to loose them at the same time.
Of course HDD head jumping from one region to other region means slow catalog listing..

dwburman
02-24-2013, 08:43 PM
hehe... full screen disk formatting and copying software :)

I almost miss the clicking disk drives, although I'm pretty sure I ran a utility to turn that off.

I also get kind of mad when I look at the Windows Task Manager and see that the Belkin Router Monitor on my laptop uses more RAM than I had in most (if not all) of my Amigas. Really? You really need to use that much RAM to check on how the router is doing?

jeric_synergy
02-24-2013, 10:41 PM
I never used it in native amiga env because it was attached to some insane GFX card back then and in 90-96 when I was proud Amiga user it was hard to me to buy color monitor.

No wonder I'm having trouble selling mine.

jeric_synergy
02-24-2013, 11:01 PM
What do I miss?

AREXX!!!!

And DirOpus (I know, I know), Deluxe Paint.

And the indefinable smoothness of the Amiga multi-tasking.

++
For all the generations of speed between then and now, computers don't SEEM as fast as they 'should' be. Shouldn't everything render in real time by now?

dwburman
02-24-2013, 11:07 PM
...And the indefinable smoothness of the Amiga multi-tasking.


or just the smoothness and immediacy of the mouse pointer.

jeric_synergy
02-24-2013, 11:37 PM
It's hard to believe there used to be a system where you could tie your bitmap editor to your spreadsheet to your word processor to your 3D modeler, but there was.

AREXX.

lwanmtr
02-25-2013, 12:17 AM
Amiga was an amazing piece of work. Small OS (even 3.5 was smaller than windows or mac os), Multitasking that worked....oh and Autoconfig, which worked much better than any 'plug and play' device.

User upgradability of almost every part in the machine, easily (A3000 ram not withstanding).

The ability to copy program folders and even the OS folders to a hard drive and just copy them back if you needed...rarely did you need to 'install' every app.

I loves Digipaint and Digi-View (my first image scanning device). Dpaint was nice too. Anyone remember Photonpaint?
Of course I had a Video Toaster and then later LW 3.5 when it went standalone. I think I still have the 3.5 disks (yaay floppies)

Only model I never had was the A1000...and my A4000T finally gave it up last year.

Games were awesome... Cyber Empires, Firepower. UFO....and Lemmings!

Its sad the idiots at C= let it die out...would be cool to have seen it continue. Probably could have if the OS had gone PPC..the lack of that is what killed off Phase-5's Cyberstorm PPC line.

zardoz
02-25-2013, 02:36 AM
Arexx, Real3D v1.4, Directory Opus and... Goal!! lol how many hours did I spent playing that game??

Waves of light
02-25-2013, 02:50 AM
Arexx, Real3D v1.4, Directory Opus and... Goal!! lol how many hours did I spent playing that game??

And then there was Kick Off and Sensible Soccer!

3DGFXStudios
02-25-2013, 02:55 AM
I painted my a2000 black, it looked badass!

lwanmtr
02-25-2013, 03:02 AM
Im sure some of the young ones gasped at the idea of painting your computer...I think most of us painted our computers at some point....had to do something, we didnt have all neon lights and spinny things...lol

I painted my A1200 gunship grey

dsol
02-25-2013, 03:45 AM
Its sad the idiots at C= let it die out...would be cool to have seen it continue. Probably could have if the OS had gone PPC..the lack of that is what killed off Phase-5's Cyberstorm PPC line.

I dunno, as it turned out, PPC hasn't had great legs either. Intel and AMD have completely overtaken it now - and Amiga would have had to transition to x86 just like Apple did.
But If AmigaOS had been ported to ARM in the late 90s, well - that might have been interesting. It almost ended up on DEC Alpha! http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adec.html

BeeVee
02-25-2013, 03:59 AM
That was part of the problem of the aftermath of Commodore. Fleecy Moss and co debating whether to go PPC or x86 (which was largely derided by naive Amiga users conflating the processor with Microsoft). This led to more and more delays to actually getting something done and in the end Windows and Mac OS X grew up enough to undermine whatever faith people had left in the Amiga - plus of course realtime 3D, which the Amiga chipset was never designed for.

B

Sensei
02-25-2013, 04:05 AM
Everything is caused by these bitplanes and 8 times more writing data to gfx memory than on PC.

Users wanted to play 3d games. They choose platform on which they could play 3d.

At that time processor was not so important, even 65020/030 could handle Wolfentein or Doom as long as there would be chunky mode in gfx chipset.

BeeVee
02-25-2013, 04:05 AM
As for CanDO, I used it to make AmiTCPHelper (still available on Aminet!). A tool to make configuration of AmiTCP easier. It was a great tool and a real shame v3.0 never got a full release since it added support for the widening Amiga hardware and software realm (gfx cards mainly).

Looking for CanDO I just found this forum: http://eab.abime.net/ - looks interesting. :)

B
Proud wearer of Aminet, Cloanto and Bitmap Brothers t-shirts since the early 90s

lwanmtr
02-25-2013, 04:26 AM
No home computer at the time was really made for realtime 3d.

My comment about PPC was in that Phase-5 had already been producing the 603 and 604 boards, which were very popular...if the OS had been ported to PPC it would have lengthened their usability, perhaps resulting in faster boards and perhaps even a move to Intel (after the fall of ppc).

Who knows, there might have even been LW past 5.0 on the Amiga if that had happened.

The biggest thing the Amiga had was the userbase, which managed to keep it going for almost 10 years after C='s demise.

COBRASoft
02-25-2013, 05:00 AM
PhotoGenics any1?

ivanze
02-25-2013, 06:47 AM
Lightwave has changed a lot since v1.0 with the Video Toaster, obviously, but every time I use Lightwave, it still reminds me a little about the Amiga. My first 3D program was Sculpt 4D. A frame with a checkered floor, a glass sphere and one light took almost all the night to render at 320x200 on my Amiga 1000 512kb. Motorola 68000 8Mhz

SBowie
02-25-2013, 07:24 AM
PhotoGenics any1?I'll see your Photogenics, and raise you - OpalVision (and OpalPaint) ... which reminds me of the earlier 'DCTV'.

ivanze
02-25-2013, 07:32 AM
And the After Effects for the Amiga at that time, Electronic Arts Deluxe Video. :)

ivanze
02-25-2013, 07:39 AM
About KickOff it was really nice. It looks like simpler things were better. Now in Fifa or PES there are a lot of stuff to memorize. lol

jeric_synergy
02-25-2013, 11:00 AM
And the After Effects for the Amiga at that time, Electronic Arts Deluxe Video. :)
Yeah, combine animations and graphics! Astounding! :)

I also really liked Toaster Paint, which had a unique featured: "Do AGAIN". That was really useful in 'creeping up' on a given effect or level of transparency. Never seen it copied, worse luck.

SBowie
02-25-2013, 12:24 PM
Never seen it copied, worse luck.Aura/Mirage/TVP have always had pretty much the same thing, called "Re Apply" (def. shortcut key, Enter], but you're right, it's handy as all get out for a lot of reasons (it's esp. nice that you can tweak tool params and then hit Enter). No surprise, perhaps, since there is a common Amiga heritage to these apps.

shrox
02-25-2013, 12:37 PM
I had a DEC Alpha with Lightwave 4 on loan, and a 586 with 3D Studio. When I had to send the DEC back to Amblim, I bought my first copy of software that was mine, Lightwave 3D!

I still wonder what might have been if I had known what the Video Toaster was when it was offered to me. Idiot!

lwanmtr
02-25-2013, 02:06 PM
Hehe. I had the advantage that we had a local Amiga dealer that had all the systems and software out so you could play..i mean demo... them. Played with the Video Toaster quite a bit...Freaked me out the first time i hit render in the lightwave screen and it started flashing..thought I broke something..then the image came up.

Im sure you local Tacoma folks will remember Nibbles N Bytes....hehe.

BeeVee
02-25-2013, 02:07 PM
Hey shrox,

I did work with Amblimation in London at Park House (Dark House as it was known). We were trying to find an Amiga solution to animating with vector graphics, to enable scaling for cinema screens instead of TV screens. Didn't manage unfortunately... :(

B

kopperdrake
03-01-2013, 05:14 PM
Ah -

Dopus
Scala
The ability to drag the screen up and down to show the underlying applications ticking along, whilst saying 'Nyahnyahnyah' to friends with PCs.
Trundling back from the newsagents clutching that month's Amiga Format, edited by some goon whose name escapes me... ;)
Playing 'spot the Amiga' on TV shows where they used the multisync monitors to avoid screen stutters.
Just Amiga Monthly - whatever happened to Jeff Walker!
Skidmarks - now that game had us hooked!

But it was LightWave that pulled me into the Amiga world - I'll never forget the endless hours staring at the 14" Microvitec goldfish bowl, watching the tris gradually fill in. A copy of the Babylon 5 pilot video sat on the desk, recently ordered via Blockbusters.

I wish I'd kept some of the old scenes, for posterity :)

kopperdrake
03-01-2013, 05:20 PM
Oh - forgot to say, Flashback as well, by Delphine. I had the fortune to bump into one of the artists who worked on it, at a beer festival last year - almost choked on my beer knowing I was sat next to someone responsible for wasting my youth. What a game to have in your CV! Cutting edge stuff :D

shrox
03-01-2013, 05:29 PM
Hey shrox,

I did work with Amblimation in London at Park House (Dark House as it was known). We were trying to find an Amiga solution to animating with vector graphics, to enable scaling for cinema screens instead of TV screens. Didn't manage unfortunately... :(

B

I don't remember much about the DEC itself, was Amiga involved in it's development? I don't even remember what OS it was running.

lwanmtr
03-01-2013, 05:31 PM
DEC Alpha ran WindowsNT from what I recall

COBRASoft
03-01-2013, 06:12 PM
DEC Alpha, had a 64bit CPU in that time! Ran OpenVMS or WindowsNT 3.51, I worked on such a 'server' in OpenVMS, it's speed was unreal!

shrox
03-01-2013, 07:39 PM
I was pretty sure it wasn't Linux or OS2!

philthorn
03-03-2013, 08:47 AM
Wow, so much of what shaped my career came from those early "experimental" days on my Amiga.

I was inspired by the likes of Brad Schenck (Chiron was one of my favorite demos!) and Brad is still making art - http://www.webomator.com/bws/

Loved the games - especially - Chaos Engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm-X8zmxpns (I have a friend who has kept his A500 woring to this day just to be able to play CE occasionally)

Made my first game in AMOS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ZuuVuZPvY

I really wish there were a community/demo scene/enthusiast vibe somewhere like we had back then. I remember driving hours to a neighboring state just to meet up with fellow Amiga graphics nuts.

lwanmtr
03-03-2013, 02:19 PM
Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back...oh and Gloom (which proved the Amiga could do the same 3d level as Doom).

philthorn
03-03-2013, 02:32 PM
Who remembers Fish Disk! :-)
I had hundreds of those things!!!

lwanmtr
03-03-2013, 02:38 PM
Haha...good ol' Fred Fish

philthorn
03-03-2013, 05:15 PM
Haha...good ol' Fred Fish
Yep, old Fred saved me a lot of time vs. downloading all that stuff at 1200 Baud!

lwanmtr
03-03-2013, 05:25 PM
the Amiga store here used to give out one FF disk a week to customers..was awesome. That was another difference....most Amiga stores (at least around here) had real people in them..and you could just go hang out, play games or whatever...you dont see that anymore. I mean..look at the Apple store..looks like you should be wearing gloves to be there.

GoatDude
03-03-2013, 06:14 PM
The graphics on this game used to blow me away. Still got a lot of the old games

jrandom
03-03-2013, 06:36 PM
I vividly remember getting to play with an Amiga running "Barbarian", displaying a few thousand simultaneous colors. Made my PC look like absolute junk in comparison.

jeric_synergy
03-03-2013, 08:36 PM
Ha, I probably worked at that Amiga store. And yes, there was certainly an Amiga community.

Stereo, 4,096 colors, multi-tasking, .....how did we lose to the mac????

dwburman
03-03-2013, 11:07 PM
The low res display and interlaced high res displays didn't help. :(

That and the guys running Commodore.


Anyway...

If did anyone else collect .mod tunes? I just found a bunch here: http://artscene.textfiles.com/music/mods/ VLC player and WinAmp play these if you're interested in spending some time on memory lane.

By artist
http://artscene.textfiles.com/music/mods/MODS/MODLAND/

lwanmtr
03-03-2013, 11:24 PM
The A3000 had the VGA connector for non interlaced display.

The A4000 had the AGA chipset, which had non-interlaced mode...sadly it came at the cost of performance...why they did it that way..who knows.

The Graphic cards you could get, like Picasso-IV, Blizzard and Retina were top notch...and gosh...4mb video ram!

The demise was because of the idiots who ran (and subsequently ran away) C=. They held back the engineers, made stupid choices (anyone recall the big billboard they put up across the street from Sega advertising the CD32, immediately following them signing a deal with Sega for games?...which lead to the deal being cancelled).

shrox
03-03-2013, 11:33 PM
The A3000 had the VGA connector for non interlaced display.

The A4000 had the AGA chipset, which had non-interlaced mode...sadly it came at the cost of performance...why they did it that way..who knows.

The Graphic cards you could get, like Picasso-IV, Blizzard and Retina were top notch...and gosh...4mb video ram!

The demise was because of the idiots who ran (and subsequently ran away) C=. They held back the engineers, made stupid choices (anyone recall the big billboard they put up across the street from Sega advertising the CD32, immediately following them signing a deal with Sega for games?...which lead to the deal being cancelled).

112175

Jarno
03-03-2013, 11:59 PM
A thing that I miss most from the Amiga is knowing everything that the computer was doing. Nowadays it is so difficult to feel in control of one's computer.

---JvdL---

sublimationman
03-04-2013, 04:08 PM
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet or not but anybody remember Ages Animator? It was a extremely simple to use vector based 2D animation program. The day I was buying my first Amiga (A1000) I played with it in the computer store and made a small animation in about 15 minutes.

I would actually like to have something like that on my Mac now. It was simple rectangles and circles. You could move them, change size and drag points around to change shapes. You just did tweening and it figured out the in between frame and in real time.

Sculley
03-04-2013, 05:57 PM
Ive still got my old Amiga 3000T... Don't think the drives running anymore... but my first memories when I got it was how smooth video played back was and trying to reproduce the look from SeaQuest DSV... Cant remember if I ever got anywhere close at the time, would be good to pull it out of the loft and see if it boots. I also miss the paint apps and many of the games.. back when game play was formost.

dwburman
03-04-2013, 06:42 PM
I had Aegis Animator and another one called Zoetrope. I never did much with them, though. I still have Brilliance and ImageFX 2.

I don't remember knowing about the vga port on the a3000 , but I probably did know it at the time. I have an a1200 that i used with vga monitors, but by the time AGA came along I think the battle for business and desktop publishing was over.

I never had an Amiga with a Zorro slot and couldn't afford the 24bit graphics cards. :(

lwanmtr
03-04-2013, 06:50 PM
I had Disney Animation Studio ...nice little program for the price...sadly it couldnt do 720x480...only 640...and they never updated it. Had fun though, drawing out little animations...learned the basics of animation from it.

Had to really save money to get the 24bit cards. Just too bad too that the 4000T with dual video slots came late in the game..PicassoIV and Video Toaster / Flyer was a great combo.

COBRASoft
03-04-2013, 07:06 PM
PIV with Pablo II, Concierto and Paloma :D... Nice trio I got there. Sadly they never released their extra PCI add-on cards they had planned like Voodoo and PowerPC.

ConjureBunny
03-04-2013, 07:17 PM
Oh man... lots of them. I had some kind of onion skin animation pack. A-10 Warthog. Some kind of animation program (OH GOD WAS THAT LIGHTWAVE???), a Mac emulator I had to buy ROMs for... I loved the "workbench". But most of all, there was some FPS turn based dungeon game. That was epic.

I especially liked looking at the boxes for Psygnosis. I never thought the games were that great, but the art was unbelievable!

-Chilton

Doctor49152
03-04-2013, 07:36 PM
I had the 500, 1000, 2000 and one of the very few Amiga 4000s in Canada. There was a store in a city close by (Prince Albert, Saskatchewan) that was a big amiga mail order place. I chaired the local Amiga Users group and I remember showing people my Commodore Gold Service card and they were bowing toward it. When one of my hard drives was acting up (because of the heat the 4000 produced) I had someone from Xerox Canada come over to my house and help.

I used to live in Dpaint. That was a super friendly paint program. I miss playing with the color-cycling effect. And watching the stuff coming from the demo scene in Europe.

What I don't miss was having to give the monthly updates on what the heads of Commodore were doing to totally screw the world of an awesome computer system.

These days when I hear someone talking about which is better Mac or PC I just laugh a little (while I also cry inside). These kids today don't know what it means to love a computer system as hardcore as Amiga fans did.

and still do.

jeric_synergy
03-04-2013, 08:05 PM
I had a Picasso board. That thing worked GREAT.

Currently trying to unload my TVPaint (with dongle!) package. No takers. :(

Sold Deluxe Paint IV last week! :D

SBowie
03-04-2013, 08:14 PM
I had a Picasso board.Retina, here ... and later, VLAb Motion, which led to DraCo, which led to a dealership, then NewTek, VT, and here we are.

dwburman
03-04-2013, 10:20 PM
I pulled my A1200 out and tried it out a bit tonight. Sadly, the 68030 expansion card with FPU and (4MB?) RAM on it doesn't seem to work anymore. It was always a bit finicky with how it sat in the expansion port, but I couldn't get it working at all tonight. The big problem is that without the extra RAM Brilliance won't start because my install of workbench was set up with more RAM in the system and even after killing some of the stuff I had running on startup, there's < 1MB of RAM left.

To add insult to injury, the atari joystick to PC USB adapter cable I ordered came in today. Only instead of the cable, they sent me an Atari Joystick (clone, I guess). [edit] they are sending the correct thing, so it's not a big problem, but it was a bummer.

The good news is that my last Ami does output color video over the composite out. I don't know why it only did b&w for me before. I suppose it could be a PAL/NTSC thing, though usually that just resulted in a need to adjust the vertical hold.


I found out about a documentary in the works:
http://www.amigafilm.com/Site/Viva_Amiga_-_The_Documentary_Film.html

alexos
03-05-2013, 01:56 AM
My A3000T (a fantastically engineered machine btw) still works - I'd fitted it with a Picasso II and a 68040 at some point, and I think it's got a 200mb hard drive. I miss the "ignition key" which reset the whole thing; I miss the fact that if you pressed the power button it'd turn it off instantly and the OS wouldn't make a fuss about it; I sorely, sorely miss, as someone else mentioned, the feeling of knowing it inside and out, from the startup sequence to AREXX. Oh and Cinemaware games!

I most certainly do not miss the stupid ZIP ram modules, I think I broke a couple dozen back then.

ADP.

lwanmtr
03-05-2013, 02:10 AM
Yeah, an OS that didnt cry when you turn off the computer was great. Still dont understand what they are doing that they need to go through some elaborate shut down sequence...hehe.

Matt
03-12-2013, 12:03 PM
I miss:

Build in RAM disk
The demo scene
Noisetracker/Protracker
Cinemaware games
AMOS

dsol
03-12-2013, 12:12 PM
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet or not but anybody remember Ages Animator? It was a extremely simple to use vector based 2D animation program. The day I was buying my first Amiga (A1000) I played with it in the computer store and made a small animation in about 15 minutes.

I would actually like to have something like that on my Mac now. It was simple rectangles and circles. You could move them, change size and drag points around to change shapes. You just did tweening and it figured out the in between frame and in real time.

A similar app, but much better IIRC, was Fantavision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM8Znjir418). It was a ton of fun to create simple 2D vector-based animation in that - and it supported sound effects and colour-tweening too I think.

jeric_synergy
03-12-2013, 12:32 PM
I had both Aegis Animator and Fantavision. IIRC, AA went to AutoDesk, where it was killed when a CEO didn't understand why a 3d company would have a 2d product.

On the PC, I guess Flash took over that niche. It's odd, but I've never liked any of the PC Dpaint clones, even when it'd make more sense than useing PShop. Making SIMPLE stuff in PShop is such a pain.

dsol
03-12-2013, 12:44 PM
I miss:

Build in RAM disk
The demo scene
Noisetracker/Protracker
Cinemaware games
AMOS

Blitz Basic was awesome too - though it came much later in the 'miggy's life. It was like Amos, only less buggy and the game engine was insanely fast and smooth compared to AMOS

dsol
03-12-2013, 12:50 PM
Sorry about the double post (which this one is now replacing!) - the NT forums have definitely been a bit screwy since the last major update. Arrghh! How do you just delete posts?

philthorn
03-12-2013, 01:41 PM
I had both Aegis Animator and Fantavision. IIRC, AA went to AutoDesk, where it was killed when a CEO didn't understand why a 3d company would have a 2d product.

On the PC, I guess Flash took over that niche. It's odd, but I've never liked any of the PC Dpaint clones, even when it'd make more sense than useing PShop. Making SIMPLE stuff in PShop is such a pain.

Way back in the day I worked for an Autodesk training center - AD came out with it's own version - Autodesk Animator (a direct clone of AA) - later ported it to Windows 95 as Animator Studio which actually had some cool features, then killed it. :-)

Just like the infamous Hyperwire - a super cool Java CASE tool that was like using a node editor to create Java Apps. It was used by my team to create some pretty complex system control software and early web apps but they killed it without even releasing it.

OK - back on track. Did anyone else have the Picasso II frame buffer board? I loved that thing and it came bundled with TVPaint!

-Phil

Off topic but I found my old install disk - 112517112517

jeric_synergy
03-12-2013, 02:56 PM
Way back in the day I worked for an Autodesk training center - AD came out with it's own version - Autodesk Animator (a direct clone of AA) - later ported it to Windows 95 as Animator Studio which actually had some cool features, then killed it. :-)
Somewhere (can't remember) I got to chat w/the product manager at AD for Animator Studio. He was disgusted that such a bean counter had say over what tools the company produced, when Animator would have been a perfect complement to their 3D tools. Idiots with MBAs.

Pretty sure it WAS the same programmers as wrote Aegis Animator. ---Dan Kent???

Did anyone else have the Picasso II frame buffer board? I loved that thing and it came bundled with TVPaint!
Yup, that must be where I got my TVP (with dongle!) I'm trying to sell. No takers. Shocking! ;)

BeeVee
03-12-2013, 03:18 PM
OK - back on track. Did anyone else have the Picasso II frame buffer board? I loved that thing and it came bundled with TVPaint!


I did, and a Picasso IV with the extra cards (although they never really worked). On the coding front, I used to use CanDO, which was great (still have a thing on Aminet: AmiTCPHelper).

B

ivanze
03-12-2013, 04:03 PM
I miss:

Build in RAM disk
The demo scene
Noisetracker/Protracker
Cinemaware games
AMOS

Ahh, nothing like rebooting the system using the RAM Disk. That was really fast.

COBRASoft
03-12-2013, 04:03 PM
BeeVee: my extra cards worked perfectly :). I had a PII also before my PIV and before my PII I had a Retina card.

Sensei
03-12-2013, 04:05 PM
Ahh, nothing like rebooting the system using the RAM Disk. That was really fast.

Hibernation..

It's taking snap-shot of whole memory to disk, and then while restarting is copying file to memory..

Rayek
03-12-2013, 11:10 PM
I still have my A1000, purchased in 1985 by our parents in a small shop in Germany (after my younger brother and I emotionally blackmailed them), right here storaged in a A1200 box, together with the original 1081 monitor, below my work desk. My first encounter with Sculpt 3D (even before the Animate version) changed me forever. I remember creating spaceship animations, and impressing my friends with those ;-)

Back in those days, I was part of the hacker/demo scene in the Netherlands - a couple of years ago I tracked my "Red Dawn" graphics dude name on some obscure demo scene history page.

I wholeheartedly advise anyone even remotely interested in reliving some of the nostalgic Amiga feelings to purchase a copy of Amiga Forever. Absolutely awesome, and the experience of booting into a 2560*1440 true colour Workbench within 1 second (I kid you not!) is very, very funny (and cool).
It also comes pre-installed with the best demos from the demo scene, and special modernized workbenches that actually feel quite... current! (See screen shots)
Check out the benchmark result: my emulated Amiga system is a mere 43 times faster than an Amiga 4000 with 68060 cpu.


112532
112533

SPICE
03-13-2013, 03:58 AM
In the early 90ties I got a project from a advertising agency.
I became that job because they know... Im working with Softimage and SiliconGraphics in that days.

Years later I told them that I had done the job with an AMIGA .. .they would not believe that. But i was true :)

Here is one of that clips...
http://youtu.be/qCyFDi20HYo

Shawn Farrell
03-14-2013, 08:19 AM
I remember using AREXX to write my VideoToaster Flyer "NavigatoR" software, going to The Beverly Hills Hilton for the Video Toaster Expo and meeting Tim Jenison in person and showing him my software & my one "Token Music Library Volume I" music CD. He jotted a note down on a piece of paper and asked if I would be interested in designing the icons for The Videotoaster Flyer final release AREXX Icons Interface...ofcourse I yelled "YES!" and six months later he called me and we got them done. I generated the ICONS in LightWave and prodeced my "Token Music Library" volume I CD with Bars & Pipes Pro with a Studio16 card. So much fun... - Shawn

gordonp
03-14-2013, 08:33 AM
Started with a 500 with some sort of sidecar hardrive and memory expander.
Later had an A3000 with an Opalvision card.
Would run Sculpt 3D, Imagine 3D (TurboSilver), and Deluxe Paint.
As I migrated to Macs, I would use a null model cable to transfer rendered frames to edit video onto my Centris 360.

I also had some presentation software that I can't remember the name of. You could assign animations, images and audio to your keys and play them non-linearly. It came with a pad of paper with the keys printed on it for you to mark up with notes.

robertoortiz
03-14-2013, 10:31 AM
I think you are thinking of Amigavision.
Here is a video of the program:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7KIZQzYSls

ivanze
03-14-2013, 10:32 AM
TV*Show or Elan Performer.

Elan Performer was very nice. In this site it says that it was made by NewTek but I don't think that is right.

http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/27047/Elan-Performer/

gordonp
03-14-2013, 11:39 AM
Yes! Elan Performer v2! Thanks!
It's all coming back to me now.
I had ordered it through my local Amiga/software store for $45. They received v2 (which nobody knew about), and it turned out to be $100.
And no, it was not a NewTek product.
Might still have it around somewhere in a box.

jeric_synergy
03-14-2013, 11:53 AM
I think you are thinking of Amigavision.
:) Just sold all my AmigaVision stuff on eBay! Yay for collectors!

jwiede
01-25-2014, 06:25 AM
Any chance you will make MonitorFiles available to the public Sensei? Snoopdos is one program I miss very much when i have problems with a corrupt program.

On Windows, use Windows Sysinternals' Process Explorer (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb795535.aspx) to see everything process has open w.r.t. files, registry keys, DLLs and so forth. LOTS of very useful debugging tools in that package, Mark Russinovich's company was worth every penny MS paid for it, and it's difficult to beat "free" (esp. compared to when they were commercially sold).

jwiede
01-25-2014, 06:36 AM
I think you are thinking of Amigavision.
Here is a video of the program:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7KIZQzYSls

Yep, Amigavision was a blast! Hehe, Hedley was so _young_ in that video.

Julez4001
01-25-2014, 07:37 AM
And Scala!

www.scala.com
These guys, I heard the programmers are from Amiga

JamesCurtis
01-26-2014, 12:17 PM
I went full tilt when the Amiga was out. I had started with one machine [the A1000 - paid for by my grandmother at the time - she really believed in what I was trying to do] and within a year or so had bought an additional A2000 and A2500. Both were equipped with Video Toasters to get my video and 3D animation business going!! I Eventually I picked up an A3000 and an A4000 as well. It had cost me a mint back then, but it was really fun doing the work. I was doing projects for some very well known companies that literally took a day or more per frame to render in Lightwave3D. Also, I swear I had one of the earliest Video Toaster cards available!.

Someday I'll have to put up on Vimeo or YouTube a copy of a promotional video that I made for a small Amiga [mini] Expo that my local Amiga Computer Club had put on [We had about 60 members at the time]. It featured graphics and animations 2D & 3D done by me and other Amiga artists [some mentioned here], and short comments by club members . It ran about 10 minutes [if I recall correctly]. It was really fun producing the video, and it really showed what the Amiga was capable of. I just need to digitally transfer the thing from the VHS tape it was originally recorded to!!

Oh to wax nostalgia!!

lwanmtr
01-26-2014, 01:38 PM
Hehe...I remember being able to get those fun contracts for large corporations, was a lot easier back then, cause not everyone had 3d or video. I started with an A2000, which over a couple years got a tosater, then LW 3.5 was released as a standalone. My first ever pay contract was for Gulfstream-IV that was used in a company's in flight safety for their corporate jets, after that I made my first car for a car company (i looked at the model recentl...yeesh it was bad...lol).

JMCarrigan
01-28-2014, 04:09 PM
The things that jumps out to me are: it had to be the days before paranoia hit, righteous or not, and Bill Gates was still farting around with DOS.

Our little in-house tv production studio decided on Amiga's and I went through quite a few. Directory Opus. I could house clean without worry. I could move a program and all it's content anywhere I wanted with no worries. Hmmm. There was an Italian titling program. I wish I could remember the name. Well, I can't remember anything. I could do house keeping very easily. I remember that. I remember Directory Opus; I believe that's still out. I remember the arrival of the Toaster ver 3.5.,the Toaster/Flyer and my interest in a little program called Lightwave 3D that needed a great big dongle to get and use. You know - the video capture card.

I hated Bill Gates until it occurred to me that hating was stupid . The MIPS version of Lightwave and Windows NT. La Scalla! That was the titling program. Did I actually put in 45 disks to load the Toaster etc.

And on and on he went.

D'oh. I should have read some of the above first! Ya'll remember the software.

JMCarrigan
01-28-2014, 04:16 PM
Eric Schwartz. Is he the guy who does South Park?

lwanmtr
01-28-2014, 04:19 PM
Nope, eric Schwartz did Rachel Racoon and the other sexy anthropomorphics....Not sure what he does now

COBRASoft
01-28-2014, 06:34 PM
I would love to see a modern version of Diavolo Backup. It really saved me several times back in the day using Iomega Zip and Jaz drives. Today, it would be really usefull with external HD and cloud. The thing I liked the most was the ability to specify the encryption for each type of file.

Eric Schwartz, isn't that the guy from the Amiga Warrior pic?

BeeVee
01-29-2014, 02:31 AM
:) The program was Scala and it was Norwegian. It don't know what happened with Eric Schwartz, but his site is still online and regularly updated (http://www.sabrina-online.com/). Scala still exists and is now the name of the company that offers Infochannel for digital displays. (As for South Park, that's Matt Stone and Trey Parker).

B

erikals
01-29-2014, 07:21 AM
yep, used Scala until 2005 http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
http://scala.com/interactive/designer
hah, we used Amigas in 2005 too, for maintenance for Cruise ship installations... (!)

a very nice app, quick and easy. bit expensive though.
think it was like $1800... then adding dongles for each installation, $300...

comfy to work in, as the GUI had quite large buttons.

SBowie
01-29-2014, 08:12 AM
Ahhh, good times. :)

My first and second ever paid magazine contributions (Amiga User International, July 1996):


Field Report: World of Amiga Show
Getting started with Scala, Pt.1

jeric_synergy
01-29-2014, 09:53 AM
What I miss from the Amiga is a bit intangible: there was a certain smoothness to multi-tasking on the Amiga that I've never felt on other systems, Windoze or Mac.

Rayek
01-29-2014, 10:52 AM
Completely agree - Amiga's had a certain smooth "feel" to them, that I think is missing in the three main OSs (Win, Mac, Linux).

stone
01-31-2014, 08:22 AM
the clarity of the system. most everything was incredible elegant and clearly divided into folders with logical names, like commands and libraries. you could understand the system, what it did and why. simple structure, startup sequence ect. with something like snoopdos everything was transparent and if i didnt want something to run i could just disable it.

most designs of the system has only been surpassed doing the last 15 years. ramdisk, naming of devices and auto configuring them. zorro has a lot of resemblance to pci - and thats how the entire system was. just a decade ahead.

Phil
01-31-2014, 08:50 AM
Cool (for the time) OctaMED tracks on cover disks. I could loop them over and over again and drive people insane.
Fighting with printer drivers for the dot matrix (technology changes, but isn't it interesting that the driver problems persist?)
Gently tapping the A590 to try and get it to spin up on cold mornings.
Running out of memory.
Application crashes taking out the entire OS.

jeric_synergy
01-31-2014, 10:23 AM
Files that didn't NEED an extension to be understood by the software.

Extensible media format.

AREXX!!!!

BeeVee
01-31-2014, 10:27 AM
Files that didn't NEED an extension to be understood by the software.


^This x1000000000.

Localisation too.

B

dsol
01-31-2014, 10:32 AM
Drag and drop filesystems, Datatypes - and yes, the IFF spec. There's some really ingenious ideas in the old Amiga OS.
And the hardware kicked *** for many, many years and only got overtaken because CBM were lazy and unfocussed (and squandered so much time on dodos like the CDTV)

SBowie
01-31-2014, 11:30 AM
AREXX!!!!Indeed, and along with it, MUI.

jeric_synergy
01-31-2014, 11:31 AM
I don't recall "MUI".

SBowie
01-31-2014, 12:20 PM
Magic User Interface was one of a number of libraries you could use to extend AREXX, this one in particular letting you easily add various types of UI controls.

lwanmtr
01-31-2014, 02:01 PM
MUI was fun, allowed for some really neat Workbench customizations.

jeric_synergy
01-31-2014, 02:31 PM
Damn, you guys have good memories!

I'm not sure what prevents Windoze from having an AREXX (or REXX) -like facility, except ENORMOUS security concerns. It sure would be nice to tie together apps from different vendors. It'd be a revolution.

COBRASoft
01-31-2014, 02:53 PM
PageStream helped me to create great brochures and publications. Nobody in my class/environment understood how I could do this :).

Loved MUI and MagicMenu :).

SBowie
01-31-2014, 05:10 PM
Damn, you guys have good memoriesI remember 1967 (when I started going stay with my then future wife) like it was yesterday ... but often struggle to recall why I'm standing in front of the fridge. ;)

jwiede
01-31-2014, 05:34 PM
Damn, you guys have good memories!

I'm not sure what prevents Windoze from having an AREXX (or REXX) -like facility, except ENORMOUS security concerns. It sure would be nice to tie together apps from different vendors. It'd be a revolution.

Actually, there is OpenObjectREXX for Windows Script Host today which is capable of IPC-type uses, just like AREXX & W-Shell back in the day. As convenient as AREXX was. AppleScript is probably still the seminal case of fun, efficient script-driven IPC between users' apps.

Still, all that said, it was pretty amazing what you could do with just AREXX, WShell, and some AREXX scripts driving Willy Langveld's VLT back in the day.

I think I've mentioned this before, but in case not recently, for those looking for some nostalgia in Windows, give GPSoftware's DirOpus Pro a try. It's pretty amazing, and provides some very Amiga-like file-management and scripting capabilities.

erikals
01-31-2014, 10:57 PM
some nice games...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUoJBerFDsA

jeric_synergy
02-01-2014, 01:21 AM
Actually, there is OpenObjectREXX for Windows Script Host today which is capable of IPC-type uses, just like AREXX & W-Shell back in the day. As convenient as AREXX was. AppleScript is probably still the seminal case of fun, efficient script-driven IPC between users' apps.
Huh. But, do vendors put it in their products???

jwiede
02-01-2014, 03:12 AM
Huh. But, do vendors put it in their products???

It's up to devs how much of their app's functionality they choose to expose to WSH, same as with AppleScript or AREXX. The nice thing about WSH is that the functionality is language-neutral, you can use OpenObjectREXX, or Python, or VB, or ECMAScript, hopefully you get the idea. It's not as direct as AppleScript or AREXX w.r.t. IPC (at least, IMO) but still similar. Personally, I think AppleScript is probably the most functional script/IPC infrastructure, but then, it's been around among the longest as well, and has extremely broad vendor support -- also its more user-focused, where WSH is more focused on a systems admin perspective.

I guess my point is that both MacOS and Windows now have AREXX-like capabilities, you just need to do a little digging to learn about them.

JMCarrigan
02-01-2014, 10:41 AM
Files that didn't NEED an extension to be understood by the software.

Extensible media format.

AREXX!!!!

Riiiiight. When I was on windows 3.1 I could not figure out why at the time. Security!

jeric_synergy
02-01-2014, 12:52 PM
I guess my point is that both MacOS and Windows now have AREXX-like capabilities, you just need to do a little digging to learn about them.
Not a lot of buzz about them among user types, which makes me suspect maybe not so easy to use. :(

SBowie
02-01-2014, 05:44 PM
The beauty of AREXX was it was nearly universally supported by productive apps.

shrox
02-02-2014, 01:44 PM
I remember 1967 (when I started going stay with my then future wife)...

At first I thought that said "stray". I had vision of you and her following a certain brightly colored bus across the country.

SBowie
02-02-2014, 02:37 PM
oops - I meant to write "going steady" ...

alexos
02-02-2014, 02:59 PM
The sheer variety is what I remember the most - you had three/four alternatives for everything from word processing to bitmap painting and they were all so different, both in UI design and functionality... And if you were an Imagine user nobody from the Sculpt or Videoscape or Real3D camp would say anything about it - software was nothing personal back then. I also (less happily) remember spending a bloody fortune in a LW+Vistapro+ADPro+Scala package, plus that german video editing HW+SW solution whose name I can't quite recall - and oh boy, it just occurred to me I'd bought the audio card as well, Toccata, I think it was... All because the Toaster didn't work in Europe!

OH, Newtek... Why did you hate me so?!

ADP.

SBowie
02-02-2014, 08:00 PM
... plus that german video editing HW+SW solution whose name I can't quite recallDepends on which one you mean - VLab Motion or DraCo (both from Macro Systems). I had both.

jeric_synergy
02-02-2014, 09:27 PM
I gave the Imagine guys a raft of crap because their manual was such that, if you read it, it put you at a disadvantage in using the software. It Was That Bad.

Consistancy is my middle name. (I h8 my parents.)

robertoortiz
02-05-2014, 10:13 AM
Speaking of the power of AREXX.


Putting the artistic talent to one side. This was the big (practical) secret behind Foundation Imaging, and subsequently, the sheer volume of quality FX they could produce for Babylon 5.

Initially coded by Bryant himself in AREXX for the network of Amiga 2000s doing the FX for season 1, Steve Pugh then went on to port it to the PC and enhance it vastly and made it into virtually an operating system (it's a thing of great beauty and it's running over at Eden because that's where Steve ended up).

With what amounted to a higher (or at least more sustained) level of processing power they also had the ability to produce more detailed FX as well. Something that could be seen when they had to make their forced move over to ST: Voyager, at the end of season 3 of Babylon 5.

BeeVee
02-05-2014, 10:40 AM
In reply to John Wiede's exhortation to try Directory Opus I fully agree - Directory Opus user since v2 on the Amiga :D

B
PS. A number of us 'Wavers are also DOpus users including Matt Gorner.

COBRASoft
02-05-2014, 04:29 PM
DOpus, use it everyday as Explorer replacement and installed it for my development team also. It is just so much better and more versatile.

jwiede
02-07-2014, 06:44 PM
In reply to John Wiede's exhortation to try Directory Opus I fully agree - Directory Opus user since v2 on the Amiga :D

Jonathan handed me my (Amiga) DirectoryOpus at the Orlando DevCon in the big hallway just outside the "hacker room" (by the presentation rooms). ;)

Now that was a fun trip, though it definitely cost me a few liver cells.

Svenart
02-07-2014, 10:52 PM
Watched this video so often.... great



some nice games...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUoJBerFDsA

Rayek
02-07-2014, 11:24 PM
Except for Qwak I have played all those games at the time! And many more...

erikals
02-07-2014, 11:51 PM
some other ones... :]

major motion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpwme4k1N6Q
future wars - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQZTvM3w7e4
walker - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoZxnQraJpE
apocalypse - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8dlRA0Ccns
dragonstone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkF4o8Odr0o
cybernetix - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLInDm7O1jU
guy spy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy9a2kgpYm4
golden axe - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYq_Lefm_M
overdrive - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHmywp_TrXU
paperboy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6gFa1TlYaU
myth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0-5MzGuRGQ
dogs of war - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRjFnhqbWOA
lion king - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh1MZjoV1qo
silk worm - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3kN1rblzhI
super stardust - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJk0A8cx33A
space ace II - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbBok3J1_Ko
war zone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyH2vOOPHwE
ugh! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy1fPYH0wEY

erikals
02-17-2015, 05:58 PM
Commodore 64 still kicking... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

http://imgur.com/gallery/MUNykne

lwanmtr
02-17-2015, 06:01 PM
haha..cool

jasonwestmas
02-17-2015, 06:20 PM
I only had a Tandy. ;)

Rayek
02-17-2015, 06:45 PM
Prototype Commodore C65! Retro collecting can be a very expensive hobby...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171673209321?clk_rvr_id=782383709737&rmvSB=true

robertoortiz
02-17-2015, 08:15 PM
EASY
Deluxe paint III & IV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fF1OYaobPA
& Amiga Vision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7KIZQzYSls

erikals
02-18-2015, 12:46 AM
Hey, Roberto, you are the thread starter... \ : D

dsol
02-18-2015, 08:36 AM
Dunno if any of you saw this, but there's a pretty awesome European event planned for the 30th anniversary of the amiga. I'm very tempted to go (it's taking place in Amsterdam on June 27th)
http://www.amiga30.eu/

safetyman
02-18-2015, 08:55 AM
Geez, that brings back memories. A bunch of those games had to be "dumbed down" in order to run on other systems. Heck "Defender of the Crown" was responsible for a good portion of Amiga sales.

EDIT: I was looking for some old clips of one of my favorite games from that era, "Shadow of the Beast" and I came across this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x28VDZDKXHw

lwanmtr
02-18-2015, 02:25 PM
Too bad its in Amstrdam...would be fun to go see.

robertoortiz
02-18-2015, 10:06 PM
Hey, Roberto, you are the thread starter... \ : D
A loong time ago... LOL
BTW Gameplay from shadow of the beast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiAUZe_kL_Y

Danner
02-19-2015, 03:01 AM
Shadow of the beast was clunky and hard, but it had great graphics and music for the era.

prometheus
02-19-2015, 03:41 AM
I miss a midi software for library storing of roland D-50 synthesizer sounds in midi data format.
I recall trying some software out for pc, but the program that was for amiga was much simpler and easier to use, cant recall the name of it though, since I dont have the stuff
up and going nowadays.

lwanmtr
02-19-2015, 04:15 AM
Most everything was easier on the Amiga. Program installations too, since you could put them anywhere and it would run...didnt need all these files put in a million different places.

erikals
02-19-2015, 04:59 AM
maybe one of these prometheus,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_music_software

jcupp
02-19-2015, 07:35 AM
Did anyone use a program called CanDo? You could make programs very easy with that. It was like amigavision if Im not wrong.

I loved CanDo. I actually implemented a multi-user point of sale system using it. I had to hack my own file locking code. I'm pretty sure it was one of the largest CanDo application ever made. Several thousand lines of code and it sort of worked. Kept it up and running for 6 months until my developer got the C++ version working for the customer.

Mr_Q
02-19-2015, 10:35 AM
Doing everything I am doing now but with 1/1000th the amount of ram. ;)


This is why I love my Mac at home. OSX multitasks as smoothly as Amiga OS ever did. I can be rendering in OSX, watching YouTube, casually browsing, comping in AfterEffects and I *never* feel the cpu hit. Now what does happen is that "render" takes a lot longer if I am messing around in AE. That's what is so great about OSX's mtask handling. It always gives the task you are using all the love. Windows has gotten better but still suffers from a lot of interface hiccups and sluggishness.

Still, I use Windows all day at work, but happily come home to my Mac. OSX with all its great App Store utilities and slick GUI remind me most of my Amiga days.

Sensei
02-19-2015, 11:15 AM
I miss a midi software for library storing of roland D-50 synthesizer sounds in midi data format.

You must be kidding..
Everybody on Amiga would dream about to have 44.1kHz dual stereo 16 bit channels like now.

- - - Updated - - -


Most everything was easier on the Amiga. Program installations too, since you could put them anywhere and it would run...didnt need all these files put in a million different places.

That's because of protections against hacker intrusion...
One folder has read-only access, other one has read-write for everybody.
3rd one has read-write for admins,
etc. etc.

danielkaiser
02-21-2015, 03:42 PM
I miss waking up in the morning and turning on my local cable guide and seeing.......

127143

lwanmtr
02-21-2015, 04:15 PM
Yaay Workbench!

shrox
02-21-2015, 04:50 PM
I miss waking up in the morning and turning on my local cable guide and seeing.......

127143

Yes. Our local access cable shows Win95.

erikals
02-21-2015, 06:08 PM
the floppy drive sound anyone... ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM_sAxrAu7Q

robertoortiz
02-21-2015, 09:46 PM
This might be of interest,

Amiga music
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eclMFa0mD1c

jasonwestmas
02-22-2015, 07:53 AM
the floppy drive sound anyone... ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM_sAxrAu7Q

lol, I remember that sound but my HD just went ennnnh, enn, enn. . . . arrrrrrrrrrr. :D

jeric_synergy
02-22-2015, 12:18 PM
It does seem like, given Moore's Law, that renders should be INSTANTANEOUS by now. :grmp:

jasonwestmas
02-22-2015, 02:04 PM
It does seem like, given Moore's Law, that renders should be INSTANTANEOUS by now. :grmp:

Your render would be instantaneous if you use the same level of quality from a decade ago. Unfortunately our standards have gone up. :)

jeric_synergy
02-23-2015, 11:16 AM
Unfortunately our standards have gone up. :)
You don't know me!!! ;)

+++++++
It's a long thread, maybe I already said this: AREXX!!!

The ability to tie together applications from different vendors.... how awesome was THAT?

SBowie
02-23-2015, 12:24 PM
The ability to tie together applications from different vendors.... how awesome was THAT?Changed my life - literally. Many years later, despite implementations with the same general intent, I've not seen anything that works as well or has the same depth of integration.

jeric_synergy
02-23-2015, 12:28 PM
I hope there's a reason for the lack of AREXX equivalent: I assume security issues might be unsurmountable. :(

hazmat777
02-23-2015, 12:47 PM
I really liked Opalvision and DCTV for the time.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/opalvision

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/dctv

lwanmtr
02-23-2015, 02:12 PM
I remember trying Impact for Lightwave on the Amiga....talk about slow.....lol

jwiede
02-23-2015, 07:22 PM
I hope there's a reason for the lack of AREXX equivalent: I assume security issues might be unsurmountable. :(

OpenObjectREXX works reasonably well as a Windows Script Host (and equivalent on OSX), but you've identified the key problem: Those scripting capabilities were possible because that system lacked any meaningful security protections, and anything which were to reopen such capabilities these days would be considered by most as "malware" regardless of the benefits. Actually, MacOS's Applescript was among the closest analogues to the "spirit" of AREXX, in terms of what it did and how it did it. Unfortunately even Applescript is becoming increasingly limited due to security concerns.

The situation will eventually reach a point where credentials and authorization are so simple to manage that scripting can once again be recognized as beneficial versus malware, there are already many papers, etc. on such issues and concerns at nigh-every security convention, and so forth.

So the short answer is: There is no modern AREXX equivalent because few customers are willing to tolerate the RISK it requires. MacOS/OSX's Applescript at its peak was very close to what AREXX offered in spirit, but even it finally ran afoul of too many security concerns for Apple to leave it by default with the requisite open access privileges needed to function in that manner. If you're willing to sacrifice some local security, and/or have made up with security depth elsewhere, it is still quite possible to set up OSX such that Applescript has most of the important attributes that made AREXX so useful.

jeric_synergy
02-23-2015, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the info: unfortunately, this is a windoze shop.

Verlon
02-23-2015, 09:05 PM
Ooh, the days.

My Amiga 500 with 9MB of ram and a 48MB hard drive.
DPaint III and IV
Turbo Silver as my first 3D program while I longed for Videoscape and later Lightwave.
Eric Schwartz, Amy the Squirrel, and the Swiss Army F-16
Falcon
Lemmings
Immortal
Swords of Twilight
Drakken
Directory Opus
Euro-demos galore

Then came the 1200
Brilliance
and all kinds of fun.

It wasn't until I was finally done with Amiga that I finally got my long coveted Lightwave license, and I never did get around to a Video Toaster. As I am running Apple these days, it seems unlikely I ever will.

Shawn Farrell
02-23-2015, 09:14 PM
Bars & Pipes Professional, AEGIS F/X, AMIGA Basic, RAM EXPANSION, 256k, 1200 Baud (I was fifteen I remember it took a few hours or even a couple days at 300 baud to download 1 image), HAM, COPPER, BLITTER, AGNUS, C=

-=*>THE COMMODORE KID<*=- WAS MY HANDLE... -s

http://WWW.TRUSTMEDIA.TV/SONARONFIRE.jpg

lwanmtr
02-24-2015, 12:45 AM
Amos!

Ztreem
02-24-2015, 02:07 AM
Amos!

Amos was good and a lot of fun, but I think Unity is much better. :)

cove
02-28-2015, 02:24 AM
Hi.
Its great to reminise about the Amiga computers.
I started with an amiga 500+ and later bought an Amiga A4000+video card.
Software was mainly Delux paint with its brilliant animation feature and 3D software Imagine [and later Real 3d ].
From day one i was hooked on paint and animation software [ and still am!].
Because of my interest in 3d animation i decided to change to a pc system as they were a lot faster.
The original system i bought was 10x faster than the A4000 so worth the change over.
A nice end to my time with the Amiga A4000 was this............
I advertised my A4000 for sale and a lady responded and said she wanted to buy the computer for her
young son who had done well at school. The mother had promised her son if he does well she would buy him an
Amiga A4000 if she could afford one then she saw my advert and contacted me.
We agreed a price and i sent the computer to her.
A week later she phoned me up to say how pleased her son was with his computer and how he loves playing with the
paint and animation sotfware.
I was absalutly thrilled to bits that my computer went to a young deserving boy and that id provided him with the best of
what was available at the time.
I often wonder wether he developed any skiil in 3d software or moved on to other things. Sadly ill never know!.
Regards. KEN.

erikals
02-28-2015, 06:25 AM
that kid wasn't me, but the story applies, pretty much what happened to me when i got the Amiga... \ : )

and yes, i did end up learning quite a bit of 3D amongst other things,
and yes, i still have my old trusty Amiga... \ : )

so, it isn't impossible that the kid went the same route... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

gerry_g
02-28-2015, 07:45 AM
Not sure whether I qualify, am 61 and although I commissioned 3D done in Lightwave on Amiga's I was myself a squeakier pen concept artist back then, I actually was given the opportunity to have a go on a high end one, complete with digital pen input and an enamelled metal digitising tablet, but I absolutely hated it and thought at best this was no more than a fad and would never replace real media (it still can't even though it comes close), and even when I saw the Apple II running illustrator I still thought this was total garbage. The point being the Amiga was rubbish,the Apple II also, Lightwave or illustrator for that matter were next to unusable and took for ever to achieve anything and you had to be a total geek with your head so far up your arse you had totally lost any sense of reality to think otherwise. Yeah today it's kind of obvious to see what's what and what the value of medium is but not then, I remember a couple of guys staring at a monitor one day in ore, one of them had written a bit of code to allow light to throw rays on the polygon walls of a corridor that surrounded it (no shadows that would be way too difficult) and they stood there transfixed by the short animation they had rendered ?

lwanmtr
02-28-2015, 02:06 PM
Yep, taught myself 3d modeling and animation on my Amiga.
Sadly, my A4000T died a few years ago, so I dont have one now...though I still have disks of software and games....maybe Ill get another someday..hehe.

erikals
02-28-2015, 02:22 PM
wonder if the Amiga could be fixed, i would think so... ?

maybe,
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fixing+an+amiga

lwanmtr
02-28-2015, 02:29 PM
woulda required getting a new motherboard. but it went to a good home of someone who wanted it to use the toaster/flyer for editing

reelmccoy
03-06-2015, 09:39 PM
Fun to have gone through this tread and remember every app and bit of hardware and recall just how good we had it with the Amiga.

I loved easily having my own custom and colored mouse pointer vs some generic white arrow. I loved how I could multi-task, start one app, switch to something else without having what I launched pop up in my face and steal focus. Disk/Volume names vs drive letters. RAM disks. AREXX. CanDo. The IFF file format that could be used for just about anything. The community. Lots to miss.

Speaking of CanDo, I used CanDo to make a front end to some CLI based tool to create DCTV-bound animations before finding a native app that did things MUCH better.

Heck. Just upgraded DOpus today.

danielkaiser
03-06-2015, 11:14 PM
Not sure whether I qualify, am 61 and although I commissioned 3D done in Lightwave on Amiga's I was myself a squeakier pen concept artist back then, I actually was given the opportunity to have a go on a high end one, complete with digital pen input and an enamelled metal digitising tablet, but I absolutely hated it and thought at best this was no more than a fad and would never replace real media (it still can't even though it comes close), and even when I saw the Apple II running illustrator I still thought this was total garbage. The point being the Amiga was rubbish,the Apple II also, Lightwave or illustrator for that matter were next to unusable and took for ever to achieve anything and you had to be a total geek with your head so far up your arse you had totally lost any sense of reality to think otherwise. Yeah today it's kind of obvious to see what's what and what the value of medium is but not then, I remember a couple of guys staring at a monitor one day in ore, one of them had written a bit of code to allow light to throw rays on the polygon walls of a corridor that surrounded it (no shadows that would be way too difficult) and they stood there transfixed by the short animation they had rendered ?

Were still geeks with our heads up our arse. So your point is? Some of us are forward thinking, no need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.


"and they stood there transfixed by the short animation they had rendered?"

3D animation did not enter the world fully formed. No one said let there be Lightwave!

VirtualFM
03-07-2015, 10:53 AM
This thread is amazing!

I grew up with C64 and Sinclair ZX Spectrum. When I entered the "real world" of computing, working in several companies using databases, programming (in DOS: GW Basic, Turbo Pascal/C and DBase III, for example) I was utterly disapointed. I mean, it was so booorrriiing! And the graphical/sounds capabilities were a real letdown. I was actually happy going back to 8 bit Speccy games after a whole day working in "professional" green/ambar screens!

Then one day I entered a store where they were showing some Atari + Amiga computers that I never heard of before. A guy inserted a floppy disk in it and it instantly (remember the boot times of demo disks and hacked games with intros? They were nearly instantaneous!) started to show marvelous pictures and colours that would put both the "professional PCs" I worked on and the 8 bit machines I had at home to shame. Then some music started playing and I remember thinking "Hey, the guys in the records store next door are really putting the music loud" (this was in a small shopping center). It took me a while to understand the music I was hearing was coming from the computer in front of me!!! Then the game started and I was blown away with the colours, speed, multiple paralax scrolling, etc and I sweared on that spot I would have to save money enough to buy that computer for myself.

The game was Starray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8PAsIVo8TQ
(at 0:15, when the picture appears and the music says "GO" I felt weak and almost collapsed to the floor like a young woman in the XIX Century)

I saved the money and with the help of my father I bought the Amiga500 on December 1988. I also got Fantavision Deluxe Paint 2 or 3 (probably 2) and "The Director", which was a "multimedia" (a word I never heard before) script language that would show pictures and play music and stuff like that (I did a lot of smooth credit scrolls with it, with a smoothness impossible to do with any common other computer at the time that I knew of).

Later I had the normal progression like others around here, using DPaint up to version IV and switching to Brilliance when it came out (it was so much faster doing exactly the same!!!), playing around with AMOS, my first steps in 3D with Imagine and Real 3D (both way over complicated to my head), Scala, Art Department Pro, etc.

One that noone seems to recall or mention is ImageFX. It was so much more powerful than ADPro that I can't understand how no one talks about it! Besides the filters like ADPro, it had previews for the filters and you could paint with it. Not Photoshop like, but way ahead of ADPro. And the morphs were better, and even if ADPro was much used for batch processing, ImageFX did all that... and had programmable AREXX driven user-made scripts that could be run in batch over a sequence of images (like applying stokes or a brush).

(quick search)

Holly sh*t! Do you know those things are still "alive"?! You can still buy this stuff and people use them through the latest powerPC Amiga Clones or through Emulators, like Amiga Forever. Here's what seems ot be a recent press-release:
http://a-eon.biz/PDF/News_Release_ImageFX.pdf
http://www.a-eon.com

Anyway... About the old software, well, I used SCALA on PC up to 2003, I think, making presentations and even an interactive magazine, CD-Product-Demos, etc. I fought very hard against Macromedia's Director!

As for what I miss... well, I missed a lot for a loong time. I think I could only feel the same level of productivity (not in machine speed, which is obviously faster on PCs, but in productivity, like, not having to cope with Windows nonsense, not having to wait for stuff to happen, not having to deal with incompatibilities, etc) maybe by 2005. So, 10 years after I left the Amiga, and ten years ago! Nowadays I don't even "feel" Windows because I, as others around here, use Directory opus as a Explorer replacement, So I don't have to "deal" with Windows anymore, it's just there somewhere, taking care of writing files to disk!

To young people and people that never used this, Directory Opus might sound to be an expensive whim by melancholic misfits :-) but it's just irreplaceable! And it's not that expensive when you think that it completely replaced WinZip, WinRAR, ACDSee (the image viewer is so configurable I stopped used ACDSee about 8 years ago), FTP clients (FTP is integrated in the explorer), and several tools, like tools for synchronize folders, renaming/renumbering batches of files (invaluable for frame sequences, or downloaded TV shows.. heu.. I heard about that one!).

As I was saying, it took a long time to feel "free" again in the Windows world. I still struggle with networks and printers (there is always some problem recognizing computers on the network, or loosing signal, or connecting to printers) and that problem of the whole computer locking up when you insert a CD/DVD into the CD Drive (well, I don't use DVD's for years, but you know what I mean: you insert the DVD, it starts spinning and keeps spinning and until it's recognized you find that you click on icons and nothing happens for a while, sometimes even the mouse stops responding). Since the computer evolution is exponential, i feel like we are 20 or 30 years behind what we could have been if something like the Amiga prevailed instead of the PCs nowadays. After all, in the Amiga we had co-processors working in parallel, and Graphic and sound chips working on their thing and freeing the CPU for other tasks.. and it took dozen of years to have the same thing now, with sound processors, GPUs, several cores, etc At another level, of course, but imagine where Agnus, Denise and Paula would be nowadays if they had the same kind of evolution of our current chips!

Another thing, about the smoothness of the mouse pointer. This is a thing that even now, with all the current power, doesn't feel "right". It seems the reason is at the inner core of the Amiga OS, where there were thousands of priority settings for the different tasks (and the user had control over them, instead of only 6, from "Low" to "Realtime"), the user-related tasks were always at maximum priority. So user tasks like moving the mouse, moving or resizing windows, screen swapping or dragging (it was amazing dragging a screen down and see something happening in a background screen in a different resolution) were always as realtime as possible, because they knew that users are impatient, and since we are slow in comparison to a CPU, some milliseconds more given to the movement of the mouse would not make a big deal of whatever the CPU was doing (as it does not actually take much CPU power to do such mundane things as resizing a window), and we would feel powerful because things were responsive and immediate. I also liked the fact that the mouse looked 3D-ish, and was always... I don't know, "visible"! In PCs it seems hard to find the pointer sometimes, always having to shake the mouse for a while in order to find it.

Jalle
11-11-2016, 12:10 PM
Hey Amiga lovers! Amazing to reading this thread and all your memories from back in the day. I had an A500, loved Gods, Cannon Fodder, Nitro, North n South and DP. Sold that machine 20 years ago. BUT I recently bought my dream machine, which I couldnt afford back then, an Amiga 3000D and a Videotoaster 4000! Amiga rulez, LW rocks :D

lwanmtr
11-11-2016, 01:48 PM
Yaay. Dont forget to get a Flyer too :)

cove
11-13-2016, 02:21 PM
Like others here i had an Amiga 500 then moved up to the A4000.
Happy days!!.
Owning and using these changed my life and have been hooked on graphics and animation software ever since.

While there are so many members posting here id like to ask a question.
I absolutely loved the software that came with my first Amiga called
Deluxe Paint. Which also had animation as well as painting features.

Im pretty shore that one feature of Deluxe Paint was you could bring/paint forward selected parts of a background
image and have the selected part gradually show in the foreground image.
This feature i seem to remember was called "Rub through"
Can anyone confirm this and what could be the name of this feature if its also part of todays graphics software.
I may indeed have this feature in my editing software already but may not have recodnised it under a different name.
Thanks for any info.

jeric_synergy
11-13-2016, 02:31 PM
I think the workflows would be different for, say, PShop. It'd involve masks.*

IIRC, the author of Deluxe Paint is on the forum. Maybe one of the newer apps (dogwaffle??) shares this feature.


*to whit:


select all
copy all merged
PASTE new layer on top
make layer mask
clear layer mask (nothing shows)
paint in mask w/low opacity to reveal.

In AE you could do this with an ALPHA STENCIL or SILHOUETTE -- one of those, and it would work dynamically. I don't know of a PSHOP feature that would do it dynamically, except possibly CLIPPING GROUPS.

cove
11-13-2016, 05:09 PM
I think the workflows would be different for, say, PShop. It'd involve masks.*

IIRC, the author of Deluxe Paint is on the forum. Maybe one of the newer apps (dogwaffle??) shares this feature.


*to whit:


select all
copy all merged
PASTE new layer on top
make layer mask
clear layer mask (nothing shows)
paint in mask w/low opacity to reveal.

In AE you could do this with an ALPHA STENCIL or SILHOUETTE -- one of those, and it would work dynamically. I don't know of a PSHOP feature that would do it dynamically, except possibly CLIPPING GROUPS.

Thanks for comment/info.
Quote.
"the author of Deluxe Paint is on the forum"

Im assuming you mean this Lightwave forum if so then wow! i never expected that.
Hopefully if he see,s this post he will respond with a comment.

Quote
"Maybe one of the newer apps (dogwaffle??) shares this feature."

I do have dogwaffle not used it for a while now as i much
prefer to use Zoner Photo Studio v18 for editing images.

Will check out both apps to see if either has a similar Deluxe Paint function
"Rub through"

Maybe its there in both under a different name but likely to required more steps to get the same result.

Steps in Deluxe Paint.

Load in background image
Load in forground image
Select/use rub through feature
Save result.

It was that simple.

jeric_synergy
11-13-2016, 05:39 PM
Steps in Deluxe Paint.

Load in background image
Load in forground image
Select/use rub through feature
Save result.

It was that simple.

I think in PShop you could use the CLONE STAMP tool to do the same thing, but there's a step where you have to tell it to use the Layer on which you set the "from" location, versus .... OK, it works, you can clone from a different layer than the current one.

SBowie
11-13-2016, 06:07 PM
TVPaint and it's various offshoots have a similar swap screen (or "jump screen ", hence the j shortcut key) feature to DPaint, and the related paint tool mode is "Merge".

erikals
11-13-2016, 06:24 PM
can't believe you remembered that... :)

"j" indeed... :)

Danner
11-13-2016, 07:14 PM
Actually I have mapped the J key in Lightwave to swap foreground and background layers because of it =D

SBowie
11-13-2016, 08:02 PM
can't believe you remembered that.Not that hard for someone who still uses Mirage every day, including Sunday. ;)

Jaqen
11-13-2016, 09:27 PM
I miss playing 'Defender of the Crown' with my 7 y/o son at the time.
And all those other things on our home Amiga 500.
He now lives and works in London, the EMEA lead for a company rhyming with 'googly...eggs' or 'googly' in cricket.
I like to think Amiga started something imaginative for a little disabled boy.

erikals
11-14-2016, 12:41 AM
dang.  :)

cove
11-14-2016, 05:21 AM
I think in PShop you could use the CLONE STAMP tool to do the same thing, but there's a step where you have to tell it to use the Layer on which you set the "from" location, versus .... OK, it works, you can clone from a different layer than the current one.

Interesting to read how similar results can be achieved with other software
But still not exactly the same as Deluxe Paint feature "Rub through"
Were you could litrally paint part of the background on to the foreground image with very few steps.

This feature would of been appreciated by the more artistic among us as another creative tool if it was part of modern day editing software.

Yet another feature of Deluxe Paint which was not part of the original version but added later was the ability to add a speech bubble with text
to a moving part in an animated sequency so that the speech bubble moved up and down with the motion of the charactor. Was not very accurate though.
You may of seen recent adverts on the tv were a speech bubble now move perfectly with figures in the advert sequence.
Don,t think this feature was unique to Deluxe Paint at the time as there were references to it elsewere.

Finally does anyone remember there was for the Amiga A4000 a video card you could buy and install.
I bought this video card but there was very little instructions as to how you get it to work properly. Took ages to find the right combination of cable
connections and software settings but got there in the end.

jeric_synergy
11-14-2016, 09:42 AM
Were you could litrally paint part of the background on to the foreground image with very few steps.

I remember it, but how does that differ from erasing the foreground, or better, the foreground mask*?


(better because it's pretty non-destructive)

SBowie
11-14-2016, 10:04 AM
But still not exactly the same as Deluxe Paint feature "Rub through" Were you could litrally paint part of the background on to the foreground image with very few steps.The TVP workflow is actually virtually identical.

cove
11-14-2016, 01:59 PM
I remember it, but how does that differ from erasing the foreground, or better, the foreground mask*?


(better because it's pretty non-destructive)

It looks as if we maybe talking at cross purposes a bit here but i do now understand were your coming from and glad that you said you remember the Deluxe paint feature.
I cannot visualise what, if any, difference there may be.
I fully accept now that the equivalent to "Rub through" is a normal part of
other editing software just the way its refered to is different.
I did check my main software 'Zoner Photo Studio v18' and all the elements are there to achieve the same result as the "Rub through" effect.
My editing style does not require this function but may give it a go sometime.
Often wondered what Deluxe Paint would of been like had it been continuously updated to the present day. Maybe like Photoshop and dogwaffle all rolled into one.

lwanmtr
11-14-2016, 02:03 PM
Hehe...have to wonder what the Amiga itself would be like if it had continued development.