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mindseye
11-05-2003, 04:37 PM
I was just pondering some things after seeing so many debates back and forth about price point vs. features. I think LW is an amazing program for the price...... but what if there was a Lightwave Pro? you know... to get up in there with the "high enders". Go ahead and throw in a big wad of features and maybe full featured plugins that are integrated ... and so forth. Price it somewhere in the range of the other "high end" packages.
Then we'd have all the goodies we love about LW... + all the extras we drool over in other apps. I know there are a bazillion plugins out there for LW but it'd be really cool to not have to do so much of that. ........ just a thought.

EyesClosed
11-05-2003, 08:55 PM
It's not going to happen. Newtek simply isn't going to be able to provide what Maya or XSI can out-of-the-box. If they could, they would have a long time ago, don't you think?

Even if Newtek did toss in a whole bunch of plugins and call it LightWave Pro, who would buy it over Maya or XSI, which have those features tightly integrated as part of the workflow?

Accept LightWave for how it is or go buy Maya or XSI if you want the most features out-of-the-box. Simple. :)

hrgiger
11-05-2003, 09:00 PM
I don't think that Newtek would do this because Lightwave has always been about pro-quality tools that even an artist can afford. You said it right when you said that LW is an amazing program for the price, and I think it will continue to be that by offering us powerful tools for one low price.

Mylenium
11-05-2003, 11:47 PM
Actually this request is somewhat dumb... (no offence). Like the others mentioned, NT cannot supply the support nor the tight integration that would be required - they just don't have the resources, human or otherwise.

Also you should take a look at sales numbers of e.g. Maya Unlimited. I once attended a reseller meeting and they said something about a ratio of 1 Unlimited versus 100 other Maya licenses (Complete and the Games edition). This may have changed a little with Fluid Effects, but not too much. That may be good enough for a big 3D company like Alias but surely would be overkill for NT. You simply cannot rectify the cost.

Also most people do only use a small part of such big bundles. Having a Maya Unlimited at my disposal even I only use PaintFX and Fluid Effects from that package. If you for instance threw in a full Sasquatch, how many people do you think would actually use it? It would just raise the price and quite likly more people would shun away from LW than become attracted to it.

Mylenium

Nemoid
11-06-2003, 02:42 AM
Well, if a Lightwave Pro existance is possible, isn't possible right now. building an integrated app, with flexibility and tight features, isn't exacly a small job. it requires a great effort, resources, time, and good ideas too. its not also a matter of plugs but of R&D.

on the other hand, during the 8.x releases, its possible to start
projecting a modern Lw release on a parallel developing pipeline, having in this way all the time to do it properly.

that's what a clever company would do. IMO at least.

mindseye
11-06-2003, 10:16 AM
ahh... thanks for opinions everyone.... I especially like the one about the "dumb" request. Offense intended or not... your opinion is of no higher value than anyone elses. In my ponderings on this subject I was wondering if it was possible to make some of the people on this forum happy. I see so much complaining and speculation on this forum. It is really funny how many people "know" what resources Newtek has and what would be best for them to do. The mere suggestion that Newtek give us everything we want I guess isn't enough. I would imagine that, for some on this forum, that there would be nothing that would make them happy..... even if it was free. There are many great people on this forum .... so this isn't a slam post. All I'm suggesting here is my little request in this request section..... is just a suggestion. If you think it's "dumb" that's fine..... you can. But can we at least behave like we're older than Jr. High kids. Remember that there is always an other person at the other end of these posts.... so treat them with respect.... you know... like professionals. That all being said...... for me.... and me alone. If I could dream a little dream.... I would like to have some more high end features and integration....even if I have to pay more. I'm not sugguesting that Newtek abandon the current direction they are going with LW.... maybe just put the a cherry on top of the sunday.

Mylenium
11-06-2003, 12:16 PM
Well, I beg forgiveness for that "dumb" but sometimes the right word just doesn't come to my mind. However, I'm still sticking with what I intended to say but I'm open to other suggestions.

As for that resources thing... That doesn't require any exceptional spiritual powers. There are several statements from the respective companies scattered around the web that allow some insights into things such as resources. One such statement mentioned about 9 programmers working now for NT if I recall correctly. Compare that to 120 programming guys for Maya (about 50 core team, many for research, not so few for costumer specific requirements) or 40-60 for XSI. And there is some even bigger differences in numbers for distribution, costumer support etc.. It's just cold numbers. For instance here in Germany it's much easier to get your hands on Maya than LW. Add to that the cup of coffee and chat you may have on a visit of an sales representative from Alias and the events they are organising - well, seriously I do not wonder why LW has fallen so far behind and going for Maya is not all too difficult once you get that comfy Alias-Feeling. Except for IBC I haven't seen much activity of NT here in Europe and even there once loyal partners are converting over to other softwares. It's really sad. So forgive my frustration making me somewhat grumpy on such things.

Mylenium

mindseye
11-06-2003, 12:43 PM
cool..... thanks I do know that other companies have more resourses at the time....Maya with their scientist and whatnot...plus the NT thing that happened recently. Over here you see so much LW stuff at the verge of being "there" in the top mix... so many studios use it for parts of their bigger productions.. I'm just wondering if there are a few tweaks and additions that could be added (for more money) that could help push it further so that they could aquire more resources to help compete in that realm. For my company I would like to have a few more options in LW... even if it costs more (separate from the current line so they can keep their main users crankin out work without going broke). This would keep me from having a loss in learning curve plus more cost in upgrades for multiple pieces of software. I think it's always a good idea to have a bit of overlap in software but specializing with the one that you feel most comfortable with. LW is a great program as is and has a ton of stuff that is way beyond what I need. I just see so many requests for really cool and good and do-able stuff... but it seems to always come down to the price point. ....k... i'm done pondering for now. I should probably be working right now.:D

Nemoid
11-07-2003, 06:46 AM
Your pondering wasn't dumb at all.

the only thing I can add is that obviously, more programmers
allow a great dev speedness and power. other companies can afford this , because these other apps had a very high price, and also, they develop and sell different kinda apps.

but ideas for 3D engineering don't always come from the number of heads. ideas come from the quality of heads.

Lw was projected from 2 programmers. we are talking about this app still yet.

mgrusin
11-07-2003, 10:47 AM
I worry about the extra work it takes to develop and support multiple versions of a complex software package. For example: Inspire, Lightwave Express, maybe the Vaio version? Every time you fork your development, you need to track and support that many more subtle problems, which can take time and effort away from moving forward. For efficiency's sake I'd like to see Newtek focusing on one Lightwave, making that version the best that it can be.

Multi-platform development has similar risks, but I support that for freedom-of-choice reasons (hypocritical, I know ;) ).

$0.02, -MG