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spardacus
11-05-2003, 07:28 AM
I feel terrible to post a note with this tone ... however, I feel worse about every other day using LW.

This note may be ignored, deleted, cast aside ... but I have had it!

I see great stuff designed and rendered in Lightwave ... I am even beginning to render some acceptable stuff on my own now after a couple of months of playing with LW 7.5.

I also see great stuff done in Maya, 3DS, etc, etc.

Now that I have committed to LW, somebody tell me why I should tolerate about 5 lockups/freezes/spinnng color wheels/hardline shutdowns every 2 days using LW ???!!!!!!

I just ran a rail extrude just fine ... the next one I attempt sends my computer to who knows where unable to communcate with me!!!!!!

This is driving me mad!!!!

Are there issues running LW on the following system? What's up?

I am running Lightwave 7.5 Build 572 (April 4, 2002) on:

G4 - Dual Gig
OS X (10.1.5)
Built in Memory = 1 Gig
L2 Cache = 256k
L3 Cache = 2 Mb
NVDA, GeForce4MX
Dual Monitor

I feel I am taking three steps forward and two steps back ... what a time killer.

Ade
11-05-2003, 08:20 AM
ATI freeze bug?

mlinde
11-05-2003, 09:42 AM
It may be the complexity of your objects. I don't know how many polygons you are building with your rail extrudes, but I was testing the limits of patience the other day (I think in ref. to something Ade said) and I can't wait for Modeler to keep up in the 15,000 + polygon land. I don't have the patience.

People assume that because computers are faster and more powerful that they don't need to optimize as much as they did even 3 years ago. I'm very guilty of this in my modeling, I will often make an object that requires no more than 1000 polys with 5000.

In addition, developing good workflow habits will improve your work. If you save often (and early) you lose less work. If you try to do the most you can with the fewest polygons, you are better off. The list of tricks goes on for years.

My first suggestion is to try and do as much as you can with fewer polygons. Smoothing is your friend!

wacom
11-05-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by spardacus
I feel terrible to post a note with this tone ... however, I feel worse about every other day using LW.

This note may be ignored, deleted, cast aside ... but I have had it!

I see great stuff designed and rendered in Lightwave ... I am even beginning to render some acceptable stuff on my own now after a couple of months of playing with LW 7.5.

I also see great stuff done in Maya, 3DS, etc, etc.

Now that I have committed to LW, somebody tell me why I should tolerate about 5 lockups/freezes/spinnng color wheels/hardline shutdowns every 2 days using LW ???!!!!!!

I just ran a rail extrude just fine ... the next one I attempt sends my computer to who knows where unable to communcate with me!!!!!!

This is driving me mad!!!!

Are there issues running LW on the following system? What's up?

I am running Lightwave 7.5 Build 572 (April 4, 2002) on:

G4 - Dual Gig
OS X (10.1.5)
Built in Memory = 1 Gig
L2 Cache = 256k
L3 Cache = 2 Mb
NVDA, GeForce4MX
Dual Monitor

I feel I am taking three steps forward and two steps back ... what a time killer.

Before you jump ship to another app you might want to consider trying LW on a PC...since when has Max run on a Mac? I rarely run into these problems- and I truly feel sorry for my Mac brothers and sisters who should have something more solid to work with but...

spardacus
11-05-2003, 11:16 AM
mlinde ... you are always a good friend to lean on ... thanks for the understanding tone.

I would love to learn poly reducing techniques. However it is difficult to do so when the the MAC side of NewTek's app doesn't include what sounds like a useful tool like "Reduce Polygon". I can't find it anywhere - even after trying the "C" upgrade version!

I deal mostly with simple geometric forms and compound shapes. "Gemloss" deteriorates MOST of my models too drastically. It seems to be more appropriate for organic shapes rather than for cubic and other angular architectural shapes.

I know the "Rail Extrude" has quite a complex mesh that results. This is due as far as I can see to the fact that the beziers in Modeler are replete with points that are unecessary. Using vector based apps like Freehand and Illustrator for years, I don't know why Modeler can't define the Beziers with fewer points. Three dimensional planes I guess.

Other than meticulously choosing lateral polys to combine into fewer polys, what else is there?

wacom ... I have lost sleep at night wondering the very thing you mention ... should I commit the heretical act ... should I actually look at a PC for my LW work?

Oh the horror!

bloontz
11-05-2003, 11:30 AM
Reduce Polygons is in the 7.5c update but you have to add it manually with add plugins. Should be in Model plugs as reduce.p

mlinde
11-05-2003, 12:44 PM
In addition, Reduce is then listed in the "Additional" plugins list (I think it's Contstruct - > Additional).

As for curves in LW, may I suggest you make your own curves? Use the point tool to place the points you want, convert to an open curve, and the use it as the rail for extrusion? Since you can also control the number of segments, you can minimize polygons there. Finally, depending on the object you are extruding, you can minimize the base number of polygons with a simple starting object.

spardacus
11-05-2003, 01:55 PM
Thanks mlinde ... I will attempt the curves scenario.

Just had another spinning wheel episode moving from LW to Modeler.

I am including a link to a recent render I am working on - a kitchen design.

http://www.creativeresource.org/lw/kitchensample.html

The scene now had 37,721 polys now has 47,518 with the addition of another wall design with stove, cabinets, etc.

Is that normal, high, what?

Just wondering.

toby
11-05-2003, 08:57 PM
47,000 is not very much, it won't cause spinning beachballs or the other problems you mentioned.

Hardline shutdowns? System freezes? I've only had 4-5 system crashes since I started using OSX about 2 years ago, and it was never caused by LW - I think there's something wrong with your system - If I haven't already recommended trashing your pref files, try that, or bad ram could be the problem - OSX is more sensitive to it. Even ram that passes a test can be problematic.

The thing to try is pull out one ram chip at a time and use LW for a while and see if there's any improvement.

If that fails, try disabling the Hub, it can cause problems. It's a different workflow, but it has it's advantages - mine works but I have it disabled anyway.

And don't wait til you get frustrated before asking us for help! LW has the best forum bar none!

nice kitchen!

Jimzip
11-06-2003, 12:13 AM
I've only had three system lock ups in the time I've been using OSX.. That's in 3 years of using it.
Then again, the endless Modeler beachball? Well. That was different. But thank god, Newtek and ATi that it's over.

Actually Spardacus, I've been having a similar problem. (Assuming it is the high-poly problem) Especially in Layout, when I begin the render, I shut my eyes and have sometimes resorted to talking to my monitor.
On a good F9 or F10, Lightwave stops.. Silence.. Silence.. Then zoop! Up comes the render window and away she goes.
On a bad F9 or F10, Lightwave stops.. Silence.. Silence..

HOU-fricken-DINI!
Wham, it's outa there. And the crash happens before the render window even appears.
I have to mention, that the scene has a gigantic poly-count, not because of inefficient modelling, but because of the subpatches. There are trees.. Lots of 'em, and there is a character rigged with full IK, and also the terrain needs SP too.. So come render time, my poor CPU is having multiple heart attacks. :eek:

I haven't found a solution yet. I've tried upping the display subpatches on some objects, so that the renderer doesn't have to go through the 'Updating Geometry' as much, but still the crashes happen. It's kind of a standoff between quality and speed in the OpenGL views..

In modeler, well, now there's the skipping and crashing thing in Panther.. But as for your configuration, I cannot recall 10.1 that well, but I would consider upgrading to at least 10.2.1.
The most stable my system (including LW and Modeler) have ever been was at 10.2.8 with the hotfix installed. I feel for you though, that really sucks. If you can, get Jaguar.. I wouldn't advise Panther just yet because.. Well.. Look around the Mac forums! ;)


Jimzip :D

paintboy
11-06-2003, 03:38 AM
I think toby has this nailed. hardware.
there have been many here who have
suffered the" fainting goat" syndrome
because of bad ram. pull all but the
single chip it came with and see if the crazyness stops, if so then add the chips back in one at a time until it goes haywire.
also...LW depends on OXS's virtual memory sys. MAKE SURE there is plenty of open space on your boot drive(some say at least 5 gb or more) if LW runs out of VM space it will just sit and spin forever.

spardacus
11-06-2003, 08:13 AM
Before pulling my ram, I would like to revisit two comments made here ...

First, toby ...


Hardline shutdowns? System freezes? I've only had 4-5 system crashes since I started using OSX about 2 years ago, and it was never caused by LW

I agree, my Macs have always been quite stable with only an occasional lock or bomb here and there over the last 10 years.

I use Photoshop, Final Cut, After Effects, Peak, InDesign, Quark, Freehand, Flash, Dreamweaver, etc, etc all with no lockups, hiccups or any other nuisances we may think of. This being the case, could my ram be bad relating only to LW?

Second, Ade ...


ATI freeze bug?

Can you enlighten me on what this is and if / how it's been fixed?

thank you ... thank you all

i am spardacus

paintboy
11-06-2003, 08:27 AM
the ati freeze bug doesnt apply here because you have an N'videa card.
All those apps you mentioned are nice,
but not LW. they just do not push the sys like LW does....when you get tons o data flying around like LW does it "hunts" the weak spots.
seriously there have been at least 6 or 7 folks posting here in the last year or so
with the same symptoms, LW faints if you look at it wrong, everthing else runs fine, in most cases it was a bad ram chip
causing the misery.

mlinde
11-06-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Jimzip
I haven't found a solution yet. I've tried upping the display subpatches on some objects, so that the renderer doesn't have to go through the 'Updating Geometry' as much, but still the crashes happen. It's kind of a standoff between quality and speed in the OpenGL views..
Hey jim, I have a solution for you, but you won't like it. Set up multiple copies of your scene with parts removed (like a setup with just the background, and one with just the character) and composite in post. This has always been a solution to polykilling scenes if there are bazillions of objects. Oh, and bazillions is a technical term, defined as "a whole bunch"