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View Full Version : Modeling Tools Suck In Lightwave



Tactical Trance
02-06-2013, 01:54 AM
I just started using lightwave again since its the first 3d program ive used. i was planning on doing all the modeling in another program then carrying it over to lightwave layout to set up scenes and render them in lightwave since im used to lightwave and really no other reason i just know how to use it.

but anyway i decided to say screw it ill do the modeling in lightwave as well. all the tools i used gave me massive issues. there were broken polygons on top of each other etc after doing basic things like beveling etc. i couldnt simply iron them out by reducing polys or welding all the points they were just always there halfassedly connected somehow to the rest of the mesh. i literally couldnt even model a basic room without issues. seriously idk wtf im doing wrong but its ridiculous i spend 90% of the time trying to fix this crap.

mav3rick
02-06-2013, 02:53 AM
welcome on forum as 1st and all i can tell you.. there is lot of us including me that use lw on daily professional basis. Even though modeler should get some serious attention in future update i am exclusively modeling all my commercial stuff in modeler. It's all meter of taste and experience so if you had good model experience in other application try carry on with it or use something more of your taste. if you are looking for architecture tool sets maybe you could also take a look on LW CAD, for all other organic stuff lw is more than capable modeling package. Also with right set of 3rd party plugins it can be turned out in very strong modeling environment.

Surrealist.
02-06-2013, 02:57 AM
I just started using lightwave again since its the first 3d program ive used. i was planning on doing all the modeling in another program then carrying it over to lightwave layout to set up scenes and render them in lightwave since im used to lightwave and really no other reason i just know how to use it.

but anyway i decided to say screw it ill do the modeling in lightwave as well. all the tools i used gave me massive issues. there were broken polygons on top of each other etc after doing basic things like beveling etc. i couldnt simply iron them out by reducing polys or welding all the points they were just always there halfassedly connected somehow to the rest of the mesh. i literally couldnt even model a basic room without issues. seriously idk wtf im doing wrong but its ridiculous i spend 90% of the time trying to fix this crap.



Yeah well you know. It is after all a new thing man. Take it easy, one thing at a time. Don't dive in and go full out. Read the manual, do some tutorials. Everyone goes through some kind of phase like you are hitting on. I do. Each time I learn something new. It is difficult. And I am reminded recently about how this can be learning Zbrush. But if you approach it logically and methodically and learn it as something new... you see, you can learn it.

Just take it easy, get some basic questions answered and gradually things will start to fall in place.

Modeler is not intuitive to you so you'll have to work at it if that is the way you decide to go.

Topster-71
02-06-2013, 03:26 AM
Sorry to hear about your problems. I do understand, I have the same issues sometimes with fixing polygons, but I found mainly by spending a bit a time on this, it is totally down to how some models are made and what order you use some of the tools. To get round it you either fix the polygons one by one or remodel - trying different approaches to modeling and learning why Lightwave screws-up one model and not another. I use LWCAD 4.2 a set of modeling tools. I use these tools 95% of the time for Architectural work, product design, that kind of stuff. Not very useful for creature design there are better ways. Also, try to understand why things screw-up, you may have stumbled across a bug. I remember learning Lightwave for the first time had few books in front of me and it was a slow processes, looking at it now I wonder how the hell did I learn all these features. scary.. I wish you luck and remember the forums here are full of people who can offer some great help & advice.

meshpig
02-06-2013, 04:05 AM
... its ridiculous spend 90% of the time trying to fix this crap.

Nah, the nice thing about LWM is the rules are pretty simple: save after every operation, check for 2 point polys if you don't know where yer making them, and "Shift I" for doubled up polys. It's very logical really :)

sukardi
02-06-2013, 05:15 AM
Modeler is rather quirky for new users.

I remember coming from CAD background was mystified by its lack of meaningful snapping or splines. Fast forward a few months, there was still no snapping and splines but I practically had shifted all my modeling work into Lightwave.

My point is that, there will be learning curve and it is definitely not the best for certain kinds of modeling but Modeler is actually more powerful than it looks...

Sensei
02-06-2013, 05:15 AM
Nah, the nice thing about LWM is the rules are pretty simple: save after every operation,

In Modeler? I am never doing it... Maybe one save per hour or less..

meshpig
02-06-2013, 05:36 AM
In Modeler? I am never doing it... Maybe one save per hour or less..

LW Mac here has a major Mr. Quit problem with deleting point selections whilst subpatched and/or polys. It's this Apple wireless mouse thingo I think, LW really doesn't respond well and LWCAD for example too asks that you click on the bg layter to activate the tool??

djwaterman
02-06-2013, 06:20 AM
Nah, the nice thing about LWM is the rules are pretty simple: save after every operation, check for 2 point polys if you don't know where yer making them, and "Shift I" for doubled up polys. It's very logical really :)

"Shift I" shows up doubled up polys? I did not know that.

Sensei
02-06-2013, 06:22 AM
Shift-I gets rid of double polys. It's unify polys.

He is describing cleaning up mesh routine.

meshpig
02-06-2013, 06:44 AM
"Shift I" shows up doubled up polys? I did not know that.

Yeah, as Sensei says but they have to share the same vertices.

meshpig
02-06-2013, 06:47 AM
"Shift I" shows up doubled up polys? I did not know that.

Yeah, as Sensei says but they have to share the same vertices.

alexs3d
02-06-2013, 07:34 AM
can you reproduce some steps in modeling where this errors occur, which tools did you use and what modeling steps ?

i modeled the last two days in modeler now and hat not errors, the news tools saved me some time and are really great.

Tactical Trance
02-06-2013, 07:49 AM
check for 2 point polys if you don't know where yer making them, and "Shift I" for doubled up polys. It's very logical really :)

thanks that reminded me how i used to use the stastistics button along the bottom to easily select and deleted weird things screwing up my mesh a long time ago. 3ds max tools do exactly what i want them to do. i find myself having to take additional steps to get the same results with lightwave.

alexs3d
02-06-2013, 07:51 AM
in some 3d apps there is a "cleanup mesh" feature, which deletes unused points, flips polys .... would be great this feature in lw

Lewis
02-06-2013, 08:08 AM
thanks that reminded me how i used to use the stastistics button along the bottom to easily select and deleted weird things screwing up my mesh a long time ago. 3ds max tools do exactly what i want them to do. i find myself having to take additional steps to get the same results with lightwave.

3DSMAX don't generate so called "Junk geometry" as 1-point polys, 2-point polys and similar so yes you'll have to use stats window in LWM to control/select/delete it often.

Tactical Trance
02-06-2013, 08:19 AM
lightwave is such a beutiful program especially if you want to do personal animations. god this 3ds max design 2013 is heavily updated from last time i used it the viewprts seem to be forcing the geometry to be 2-sided in the viewports by default. and the material editor is totally different format. god now im relooking at cinema 4d and maya to see if they are worth looking at. i dont wanna end up using lightwavve out of ignorance and laziness but i probably will lol.

Snosrap
02-06-2013, 08:56 AM
One nice thing about Modeler is that you can break rules - if you so decide. :) Same goes for a lot of other polygonal modelers. To me modeling should be akin to sketching, and for me Modeler allows that freeform creativeness to come out. I elect to model precisely and with quality geometry, but I'm glad I'm not forced to. Are there times when I think the bevel tool should stop beveling before it reaches the polygonal breaking point? - yes, but I'm also glad I doesn't as well. :)

lwanmtr
02-06-2013, 02:37 PM
The thing that Modeler has over 3DMax and Maya is that it offers a much deeper control of points and polys. 2 pt polys may seem like a nussance, but if you need one, you can make it in LW.

Lewis
02-06-2013, 02:45 PM
The thing that Modeler has over 3DMax and Maya is that it offers a much deeper control of points and polys. 2 pt polys may seem like a nussance, but if you need one, you can make it in LW.

True, but we wouldn't need them if we could render splines like most other packages, 2-point polys are more hack than real feature (or substitute for spline renderings) and if you look it logically 1-point poly is POINT not poly, and 2-point poly is LINE (maybe we could say edge) not poly, Poly can have 3 or more points/edges if we look it logically so i understand frustration of somene coming from other app ;).

lwanmtr
02-06-2013, 02:54 PM
Dont forget to mention the pleasure of seeing your poly count drop when you delete those 1 and 2 pt polys..lol

shrox
02-06-2013, 02:58 PM
thanks that reminded me how i used to use the stastistics button along the bottom to easily select and deleted weird things screwing up my mesh a long time ago. 3ds max tools do exactly what i want them to do. i find myself having to take additional steps to get the same results with lightwave.

Then use 3DMax and quit whining. I don't use 3DMax because it makes me whine.

UnCommonGrafx
02-06-2013, 03:08 PM
Yeah, as Shrox says.
I rarely understand why folks do this kind of kivetching in such a forum, if they aren't trolling.
The rendering of splines, though, would be welcomed.

Tobian
02-06-2013, 03:38 PM
If you come into any application as complex as this, and expect it to work in exactly the same way as another similar app, you're going to get into problems.

The LW forums are usually extremely helpful, if you ask a a polite question. If you take a steaming dump on the software, then, you'll find it less helpful :D I've seen plenty of models brought over from Max that look like they were put together by some blind chimps, so apparently it's quite tolerant to bad modelling :p

How about starting with the issues you have, and lets see if people can't help you with them. 'this geometry is behaving weird, here look, how do I fix' can be solved. 'the software is shite' can't.

hrgiger
02-06-2013, 03:53 PM
Well, it's probably not the best approach to say that LightWave's modeling tools suck when in reality its just that you're not familiar enough with them to understand the ins and outs of the program. Or its the fact that you're used to the way things work in 3DMax and then are frustrated when they're not the same in LightWave. Of course, its no worse then someone telling you to go use another software if you don't like it.

If you have a specific problem or want to understand why modeler works a certain way then ask it here. There are plenty of people here willing to help out.

lwanmtr
02-06-2013, 04:02 PM
Indeed, if you have specific questions, its much easier to get help in working it out.

Tactical Trance
02-06-2013, 10:30 PM
just tried maya i dont got time for that crap lol. lightwave is still god tier i shall be using that for my animations and renders of completed models without regret

shrox
02-06-2013, 10:32 PM
just tried maya i dont got time for that crap lol. lightwave is still god tier i shall be using that for my animations and renders of completed models without regret

Excellent! They all have their quirks, for modeling there is also Blender and SketchUp, but I use Lightwave.

zardoz
02-07-2013, 04:46 AM
when I use 3dsmax, and I can't do something because the thing is an editable mesh instead of an editable poly, is it my fault that I didn't convert it or is it 3dsmax fault because it sucks? after learning the tools you will see that lightwave is a very capable modeler. People have been using it without major updates for 20 years now.

ksm357
02-07-2013, 12:39 PM
Rather use Wings3d or Blender for modeling than 3ds or maya.
In my opinion autodesk has very poor modeling tools; for example 3ds couldn't operate select polygon loop til version 2010 or so, but i don't blame the software.No software is perfect, you will always miss some different tools from different packages.

prometheus
02-08-2013, 10:21 AM
To bad you think the modeling tools suck, that is mostly a reference thing, and the fact that you havenīt learned to use the tools, Cant image how you can fail building a simple room?

Simply put ..you do not know how to use the tools.

I personally would stay away from max modeling, yes..Ivé tried it and gone courses with it and I donīt like it.

Learn how to use extender,bevel,smooth shift, multishift, merge points flip/align and use statistics panel...and you will probably after some time wonder why on
earth you should be modeling in max.
But..both tools have their advantages and disadvantages...and to sum it up, no modeling tools do not suck in Lightwave, not generally ..there will be tools not working quite so good etc..but not generally, do yourself a favour and learn it.

Michael

Titus
02-08-2013, 10:52 AM
I like to model in LW (an old habit), the other guys in my studio love to model in Blender. But of course I don't sculpt or create models the more modern way. I know Modeler is old, but now it's getting some love. What I hate is to animate in LW :D.

shrox
02-08-2013, 11:09 AM
...Cant image how you can fail building a simple room?

A dead junkie in the lobby is a turnoff, but you won't find many of them doing much 3D anyway.

Surrealist.
02-08-2013, 07:17 PM
Threads like this are nothing but a black hole I am afraid. But for science buffs out there. Here is your proof.

geo_n
02-08-2013, 10:32 PM
Modelling in lw and 3dmax is more to do with remapping buttons. I am using them both seamlessly day in day out.
Using qwer for lw for m,r,s just like max. Only needs getting used to is subobject mode in lw is spacebar while max is 1,2,3,4.
Extrude, edgeloop, bridge, etc all share the same shortcuts.
If you don't use modifier stacks in max its exactly like lightwave. Wish lightwave could handle more polys though.

shrox
02-08-2013, 10:40 PM
To bad you think the modeling tools suck, that is mostly a reference thing, and the fact that you havenīt learned to use the tools, Cant image how you can fail building a simple room?...l


A dead junkie in the lobby is a turnoff, but you won't find many of them doing much 3D anyway.

Upon rereading this, I initially though Michael meant how could you judge an entire building by one room...I get it now.

djwaterman
02-08-2013, 11:31 PM
Anyway I think all the queries and questions have been covered so let's stop commenting so that the misleading and untrue post heading doesn't keeping rising to the top. LW 11.5 is probably getting new visitors checking out the forums for the first time just to see what this LW thing is all about and "Modeling tools suck " is not a good look. Yes I know I'm helping it now so no need to post another comment to point this out.