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Tony3d
01-31-2013, 07:20 AM
Hi all, I starting to use features of Lightwave I never used before, and I'm running into things I don't understand. I'selcting edges about a diameter, then select loop which carries it around 360 degrees. Then I select Rounder, set it to edge, and always get this error. "A selected point is not inside the surface of the selected polygons (L138). What the hell does this mean, and how do I fix it? Thanks for your time.

50one
01-31-2013, 07:25 AM
As far as I remeber LW rounder was a pain to use, also the order of selection matters and it worked for me on point selection only.

MarcusM
01-31-2013, 07:59 AM
I using rounder successfully. It have limitations and the best is play a litle with this tool and test on different ways.
And for example i had a situation when rounded polygons was doubled... ;] Helped only unify polys.

hrgiger
01-31-2013, 08:49 AM
Show a screenshot. Rounder has quite a few situations where it will not work as expected or at all. One situation you will get the error you got above is when you are trying to round an area that is not a closed polygonal surface. So if you're trying to round where there's a hole in the model, it won't work.

Spinland
01-31-2013, 08:56 AM
Is it still limited only to rounding closed loops of all quads? I haven't messed with it (or LW much, for that matter) since [8] but I think I remember it getting a facelift at one point?

zapper1998
01-31-2013, 09:14 AM
3 pt and 4 pt polys ok anything else it dont like..

Hail
01-31-2013, 09:21 AM
Rounder has been pretty much useless in my books!
It has too many issues to be of any use so I always avoid when I can.

DrStrik9
01-31-2013, 11:34 AM
But in simple situations, when it works, it's awesome.

JoePoe
01-31-2013, 01:27 PM
Ah, Rounder, my favorite topic.


But in simple situations, when it works, it's awesome.

....and in some not so simple situations.....
(granted, this one is not for the faint of heart)


I wish I could find the pair of vids that really cleared Rounder up for me (by a guy with a pretty thick accent.... anyone??)
Here's a fairly involved breakdown.
(http://books.google.com/books?id=eUp89F8nIbcC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=rounder+lightwave&source=bl&ots=Z2I9oeWUKc&sig=u0Ew4bRjfXHLqsFgSacD9oQs9jQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=N6oKUYW5H4qx0QH0-YHADQ&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=rounder%20lightwave&f=false)
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s395/joepoe1/roundercrazytest1.png

another example from from another post.

hrgiger
01-31-2013, 03:55 PM
All I can say is thank god I have mass round in LWCAD. While rounder has many issues, its still not as bad as modeler's edge bevel which fails me pretty consistently.

Hail
01-31-2013, 04:13 PM
Well.. now that 11.5 is here not sure rounder ll be of much use since 11.5 brings chamfer

Spinland
01-31-2013, 04:41 PM
Chamfer? Really? I didn't notice that update. I'm a decade-plus Rhino3D guy used to working in NURBS where that stuff was commonplace. I'm excited if LW has added it.

Hail
01-31-2013, 05:02 PM
Chamfer? Really? I didn't notice that update. I'm a decade-plus Rhino3D guy used to working in NURBS where that stuff was commonplace. I'm excited if LW has added it.

Yup! scroll down to modeller enhancements https://www.lightwave3d.com/new_features/

Spinland
01-31-2013, 05:17 PM
Sweet!

Hail
01-31-2013, 05:25 PM
Keeps getting better and better!:D

Amurrell
01-31-2013, 05:25 PM
Well chamfer is simply a chamfer tool without a divisions setting, so I think rounder will be in use for a while, and having to be creative with how you go about rounding things will stick around too, until they get this running up to Modo bevel specs. I have to say that Modo still does better in this area, and beats LightWave, 3DSMax, and I believe for the most part Blender (but have not tested this after final implementation). Although I am loving the new performance and tools in 11.5.

jeric_synergy
01-31-2013, 05:36 PM
Several LW tools work a LOT better when you select portions of an object instead of imagining that the tools is a magical telepathic wand.

Rounder is one of them. Within its limited purview, it does good work.

As someone said above, there's a good vid out there that illustrates the tricks you need to know to really profit from Rounder. Sometimes you gotta slice in an extra point, for instance.

jwiede
01-31-2013, 09:24 PM
Rounder, when it works, works well enough. When it doesn't, consider yourself lucky to escape with just an error msg.

jwiede
01-31-2013, 09:40 PM
Well chamfer is simply a chamfer tool without a divisions setting, so I think rounder will be in use for a while, and having to be creative with how you go about rounding things will stick around too, until they get this running up to Modo bevel specs.
Yeah, have to say I wish they'd gone a wee bit further with the new Modeler chamfer. Lack of profile support, settings for divisions, etc. leave it pretty limited. The "amount" setting is a bit ambiguous as well -- is "amount" referring to "inset" (iow, along original normal) or "chamfer width"? Seems like that could have been clearer (and really, I'd prefer to choose which measure is used depending on need).

I really kind of hoped the new tools would be as good as LWCAD's or modo's equivalent tools, instead of just "better than what was there before". Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they did the improvements they did. I just worry that from a competitive standpoint, being "less behind than before" tends to be generally perceived as just "still behind".

Dodgy
01-31-2013, 09:53 PM
3 pt and 4 pt polys ok anything else it dont like..

I tend to use it a lot with n-gons, so I don't get the extraneous polys along edges, so I find this statement erroneous.

hrgiger
01-31-2013, 11:09 PM
Yeah, have to say I wish they'd gone a wee bit further with the new Modeler chamfer. Lack of profile support, settings for divisions, etc. leave it pretty limited. The "amount" setting is a bit ambiguous as well -- is "amount" referring to "inset" (iow, along original normal) or "chamfer width"? Seems like that could have been clearer (and really, I'd prefer to choose which measure is used depending on need).

I really kind of hoped the new tools would be as good as LWCAD's or modo's equivalent tools, instead of just "better than what was there before". Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they did the improvements they did. I just worry that from a competitive standpoint, being "less behind than before" tends to be generally perceived as just "still behind".

Well Chamfer is doing what its supposed to be doing which is creating a simple beveled edge. In most every application I've seen, this is what chamfer does. Even in LWCAD it is this way(although LWCAD only does chamfering for LWCAD curves/lines). Rounding is a seperate function so I think that rounding and adding in the ability to do profile beveling should be in a different tool. So I can't say I have an issue with the newly created chamfer tool in LightWave.

I do agree that they could push on the modeling tools a little harder and I'm hoping they are open on suggestions on enhancing them. I for instance wish that the new tools like place mesh and slice allowed you to slide your newly created geometry over the surface/edge of the target mesh before committing. But both of them lock the new locations to wherever you click. The new slice tool gives you a preview of where the new point will be created but once you click, that is where the new vertex stays. Thats a step back from the previous add edges tool in previous versions which allowed you to move your point anywhere along the edge. And place mesh allows you to rotate or scale your newly placed mesh on the surface of the target mesh but does not allow you to move it interactively once you place it. Why? Giving us the ability to move elements around to place them creates a more fluid workflow then clicking and having the new geometry locked to that location in the current tool.

Mind you, I'm not complaining, I'm glad to see the new modeling enhancements. I just want them to be open to suggestions on how to make the tools the best they can be.

jeric_synergy
01-31-2013, 11:12 PM
Rounder: it's LW's Isreal.

jboudreau
02-03-2013, 08:30 PM
Show a screenshot. Rounder has quite a few situations where it will not work as expected or at all. One situation you will get the error you got above is when you are trying to round an area that is not a closed polygonal surface. So if you're trying to round where there's a hole in the model, it won't work.

Hi

That's not exactly true, I use rounder all the time and can use it on models that have holes in them with no problem

Thanks
Jason

jboudreau
02-03-2013, 08:56 PM
Show a screenshot. Rounder has quite a few situations where it will not work as expected or at all. One situation you will get the error you got above is when you are trying to round an area that is not a closed polygonal surface. So if you're trying to round where there's a hole in the model, it won't work.

Hi

That's not exactly true, I use rounder all the time and can use it on models that have holes in them with no problem

Thanks
Jason

jeric_synergy
02-03-2013, 09:46 PM
Bah. I'm tired of all this "Rounder is teh [email protected]" talk-- If you have some problem geometry, POST IT. Perhaps a Rounder user can guide you to nirvana. >|^P

hrgiger
02-04-2013, 03:07 AM
Hi

That's not exactly true, I use rounder all the time and can use it on models that have holes in them with no problem

Thanks
Jason

Yes, you can round a model with holes in it. But you can't round along an edge that's open.

Jeric, rounder is the crap. Don't get me wrong, it has been useful at times but it is an outdated tool that was adopted from a plug-in that has never been updated.