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View Full Version : Odd behavior trying to select bone hierarchies?



Spinland
01-24-2013, 03:48 PM
I have a character mostly rigged, and thought my ability to right-click a bone and select all its children was broken. What actually seems broken is the ability properly to traverse the skeleton.

For example, the arms, head, spine and most of one leg are done. I can right-click the first bone of the arm set, and all the children are selected. Ditto the other arm, the head, and the leg. But, if I pick one of the spine bones, none of the children are selected. If I right click the pelvis bone, the root of the whole thing, only one odd bone is picked.

I can reproduce it in the Scene editor. It shows all the bones are properly parented, and if I select (for example) the pelvis and use the menu to select all children recursively, on the editor they are all selected but in the viewports only a few bones show as actually selected, such as one arm or leg. The problem seems to be any time the traversal has to go through the spine but I can't see anything out of the ordinary and the deformation seems to work normally when I manually select the spine bones.

Is this some kind of bug, or has some weird corruption crept into the scene file? Can I fix it somehow?

Thanks in advance!

Spinland
01-24-2013, 04:35 PM
I'm thinking the behavior might be linked to my use of the new mirroring script that mirrors all the bones and controllers? According to the Rigging videos from Newtek you have to parent the whole hierarchy to a null before you mirror it across. The new set is parented to another copy of the null. It seems those nulls block some methods of traversing the structure so recursion stops there? I tried to reparent the top bone of the set that I mirrored and the whole thing went haywire and no amount of resetting would fix it so it seems that once you create these nulls and use the script to mirror you're forced to keep them in there.

Has anyone else used this script and found odd behavior after?

Spinland
01-24-2013, 07:43 PM
I think I know the root cause, something boneheaded I did early on that I think cascaded through the whole rig. Going to dump it and start over.

RebelHill
01-25-2013, 02:56 AM
Yeah... you cant select mixed item types (like objects AND bones together) so that'll be why the nulls 'block' your selection. As for the haywire after reparenting thing... yeah... if u look at what the mirror tools does, it simply copies the hierarchy, then scales it -1 on the mirror axis... BAD method. We could really do with a tool that created a properly mirrored setup, in the meantime I usually stick to just separately creating the opposing side.

Spinland
01-25-2013, 07:25 AM
Thanks. Yeah, I believe mirroring is at the root of all the problems I was having. The bonehead thing I did was originally to build the model facing the wrong way in Z, and I didn't realize I shouldn't do it that way until after I had added most of the bones. My time-saving idea was to rotate the model, then mirror the bones across Z so they were facing the correct way again. I think that really screwed things up. That's why I'm starting over like I should have in the first place.

RebelHill
01-25-2013, 08:26 AM
There is no "wrong" way in Z to have a model (though facing Z- is favoured).

Spinland
01-25-2013, 08:35 AM
Okay, got it. I was having the pole vector act in the opposite direction of what I expected so I thought my model facing was the culprit. Must have been something else.

Thanks!

RebelHill
01-25-2013, 09:15 AM
Thats dependent on which way your bones have their base orientation, nothing to do with the model.

Spinland
01-25-2013, 09:41 AM
Yeah. Live and learn.

Thanks for all the insight! This forum rocks!