PDA

View Full Version : Interior lighting techniques



TMAC3
01-19-2013, 02:18 PM
Hi, ... would greatly appreciate tips/tutorails etc. for realistic interior lighting applications.

Thanks.

MarcusM
01-19-2013, 03:07 PM
Interior in LightWave without Kray - no way, don't waste time ;]

Demo download - http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/download
Tutorials - http://www.kraytracing.com/wiki/Tutorials

TMAC3
01-19-2013, 03:22 PM
Awesome... thanks

Wittywop
01-19-2013, 03:25 PM
I grabbed this tutorial 3D Environment Lighting - LightWave. Seemed to help me get a better grip on lighting, though I am still learning.

http://shop.3dtotal.com/training/training-ebooks-lightwave/environment-lighting-lightwave-tutorial.html#m1

good luck

Snosrap
01-19-2013, 07:08 PM
[QUOTE=MarcusM;1293401]Interior in LightWave without Kray - no way, don't waste time ;]

I disagree 110 percent.

TMAC3
01-19-2013, 08:01 PM
OK...clue me in.

Surrealist.
01-19-2013, 08:11 PM
I am not a big fan of Kray either. The LightWave internal GI is much easier to use in my opinion.

I would start here:

http://www.except.nl/lightwave/RadiosityGuide96/index.htm

If it is a scene with only camera movement or stills, the above link should give you most of what you need to know to get LightWave working for you with GI.

geo_n
01-19-2013, 08:18 PM
Always work with references like photographs and other 3d renders. Most important is study where the lights are coming from. Good knowledge of material settings. Adding model props, details if you have the time and patience.
Regardless of render engine, they have similar ideas and ways of doing things. You can apply vray concept and techniques to kray and lw render engine.

references
http://www.pandm-studio.com
http://bertrand-benoit.com

techniques
http://vray-tutorial.com/
http://www.evermotion.org/tutorials/show/7977/george-v-private-royal-suite
http://bertrand-benoit.com/blog/category/cg-techniques/

TMAC3
01-19-2013, 08:18 PM
Thank you kindly.

Snosrap
01-19-2013, 10:36 PM
Check out Jason Lee's stuff. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1710586&user_id=83432&page=1&member&np

Snosrap
01-19-2013, 10:56 PM
OK...clue me in.

Use lots of lights to mimic the way real world light bounces around. Here in this scene I've used many different types of lights along with a small amout of final gather radiosity to get a decent interior shot. Is it photo real? No. But it met the need of the client and I was able to deliver on an extreemly tight deadline.

MDSPECIFIC
01-20-2013, 05:08 AM
Interior in LightWave without Kray - no way, don't waste time ;]

Demo download - http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/download
Tutorials - http://www.kraytracing.com/wiki/Tutorials

Wrong.

You can use one distant light (DP Infinite - smoother shadows/Angle parameter) to simulate key light (Sun), also put one background image world or texture map for ambient diffuse lightning and one big sphere in a scene for environment reflections (radiosity excluded). Use GI, I'm using mostly Final Gather interpolated, and there you go (sIBL method). Before this you need a god models with accurate proportions, good surface settings and adequate textures. Hit F9, wait a little and there you go. :)
This lightning method works very well with linear workflow or you can do a lot of things in post if you prefer/need (Exposure, Curves, Levels, Saturation, Sharpening, Chromatic aberration etc.).

http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/index.html
http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/archive.html
Tutorials (sIBL, Sunsky)
http://www.pixsim.co.uk/

Explore! :thumbsup:

MarcusM
01-20-2013, 05:56 AM
I played with sIBL, DP lights and hdri, thanks ;]
I looking easy and fast way for propably new LW user.

In my answer i don't wrote that interior lighting in LW is not possible, you can achieve hmm "good" results but playing with scene settings is not easy, especially for new LW user what starting understand depending between different setting (GI (here a lot), Enviroment texture, Lights types, material diffuse/luminosity etc.).

Look at this Snosrap render - very nice looking. If you happy from results, shadows and lighting then ok. I can imagine scene set up and way to achieve this result. But time spend in test rendering, fake light source set up...and what flexibility you have in this scene.

In my opinion scene set up should based on "real world" parameters, "real light" source and fast to change.

I not force nobody to use Kray :) It have one minus, it cost... But if you don't use this yet, please try demo.

From www.lightwave3d.com - "Kray is a state-of-the-art Global Illumination renderer that allows very fast and accurate rendering of scenes where indirect light plays important role."

Good luck!

Ryste3d
01-20-2013, 05:59 AM
I am a kray only user regardless of interior or exterior and haven't used Lightwave render for years so I thought I would give it a try. Her is my 1 minute Lightwave setup. Not to bad.

RebelHill
01-20-2013, 06:08 AM
LW gi is easy once u know whats going on... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFZ2av-BLg

Ryste3d
01-20-2013, 06:09 AM
After Photoshop

Iain
01-20-2013, 07:04 AM
LW has a very capable render engine built in. Its also a very good, intuitive and cheap app in general. Learning how to use it will set you up very well in CGI use, then you can branch off to other apps or 3rd party render engines or whatever.

There are good resources here and all over the web. A great place to start is Except website. Tom has some great insights and shortcuts on there.

3DGFXStudios
01-20-2013, 07:09 AM
[QUOTE=MarcusM;1293401]Interior in LightWave without Kray - no way, don't waste time ;]

I disagree 110 percent.

Me too! You can get very high quality renders with lightwaves renderer. However I think that kray renders more realistic images if the artist uses it right.

Boris Goreta
01-20-2013, 07:26 AM
Or get the the Octane plugin for Lightwave and just hit render for instant photorealistic result without any kind of GI tweaking, faking etc ...
You'll need a good GPU card for that, or several of them.

This is a great choice if you want to focus on the design and not the technical stuff like understaning how particular GI render engine works and what do you have to tweak to achieve this or that, or finding a good balance between this or that.

Marcia
01-20-2013, 07:28 AM
Is anyone using photometric lights with IES data? Wondering if this improves interior lighting effect.

The Except guide is an excellent resource, great explanations of settings, functions and their effects. Definitely worth the read, several times over. It would be nice to see a LW 11.x update, tho.

TMAC3
01-20-2013, 09:15 AM
Wow! I've come to the right place. Thanks for all your input. I appreciate all your wisdom and talent and will check out all resources offered. I do like the idea of the OCTANE plugin. Concentrating on design issues without getting bogged down with all that "technical stuff" appeals to me. Thanks

TMAC3
01-20-2013, 09:23 AM
To Snosrap. Great stuff. Thank you!

Lewis
01-20-2013, 03:05 PM
Is anyone using photometric lights with IES data? Wondering if this improves interior lighting effect.

I'm using IES lights for 90% of my Arch-Viz (exterior and interior), it really depends what you are trying to do, If you are rendering sun goring through window then IES won't help you 'coz you wont' find IES of SUN but if you want to do nice interior at night time then IES is way to go. BUT you need to know which light/fail is intended to be used for what. I've seen people use Stadium lights of 2000W for bedroom lamp and just decrease intensity. That's nto way to go to good results.

Mitja
01-21-2013, 03:33 AM
Don't think that with Kray, Octane, Maxwell or Vray you would get much better results. There's no magic button for getting excellent results.
Lighting is just 20, max 30% of the final image. If I may give you an advice, try to improve surfacing as well, you won't get a photorealistic result without good surfaces even with a perfect lighting setup.
At this early stages keep your scene as simple as possible: try Sunsky (by DPont) and use area lights for helping light enter trough windows. This is the basic idea.

Boris Goreta
01-21-2013, 03:57 AM
Mitja you're right about surfacing, it really makes a difference if your surfaces looks right, not just the lighting.

But, as soon as I started using Octane I realized that I had to work much less or not at all on the surfaces to make them look good. One thing that possibly makes it look better is that I can have diffuse reflections on all materials in the interior scene and still be able to render the scene. The other thing I noticed is that I can plug the image as a bump map and it would look very realistic without any further tweaking, bump mapping can often look really cheap, this is not the case here. Images are calculated with 16 radiosity bounces easily, and depth of field is always on, render speed is not influenced by the amount of blurrines and the bokeh effect is also there.

Also you don't have to think about things like contact shadows, radiosity solutions, blotchines and you can have really small light sources light up the scene because the engine treats light emitting objects with special care because they contribute to lighting the most.

No need to add extra lights to fake the light solution.

Ofcourse you can't render architecture walkthrough as fast as in LW with cached radiosity so different engines are more suited for different tasks.

And you can easily expand on render power by buying extra cards.

Octane plugin is a really good thing happening to Lightwave right now.

TMAC3
01-21-2013, 06:32 PM
Thanks for all your critical input. This is great. I tried rendering with KRAY, and the smart IBL (HDR) plug-ins and, in my opinion, both have their merrit. How does one aquire the OCTANE Plug-in? I see it has a stand alone but... I am in the process of designing and building a home. The design "elements" are fairly simple - Canadian Westcoast Conemporary (timber and stone). It is not imperative, but it would be nice to show the engineer ideas in a "photorealistic" way.

Thanks again for all your support.

geo_n
01-21-2013, 07:14 PM
The issue is time, quality, ease of use. Some renderers produce more quality with less time with better ease of use. Just check what's the most used renderer out there.
Octane is pretty good with quality and ease of use but time is not so much because render time is spent removing noise.
Kray is great with quality and time but not so with ease of use unless you have spent studying the renderer.
Lw native is generally in between for all three.

Boris Goreta
01-22-2013, 02:29 AM
You can wait a bit for LW plugin to be released, it will happen quite soon. In the meantime you can practice with standalone. :)

Mitja
01-22-2013, 02:46 AM
Mitja you're right about surfacing, it really makes a difference if your surfaces looks right, not just the lighting.

But, as soon as I started using Octane I realized that I had to work much less or not at all on the surfaces to make them look good. One thing that possibly makes it look better is that I can have diffuse reflections on all materials in the interior scene and still be able to render the scene. The other thing I noticed is that I can plug the image as a bump map and it would look very realistic without any further tweaking, bump mapping can often look really cheap, this is not the case here. Images are calculated with 16 radiosity bounces easily, and depth of field is always on, render speed is not influenced by the amount of blurrines and the bokeh effect is also there.

Also you don't have to think about things like contact shadows, radiosity solutions, blotchines and you can have really small light sources light up the scene because the engine treats light emitting objects with special care because they contribute to lighting the most.

No need to add extra lights to fake the light solution.

Ofcourse you can't render architecture walkthrough as fast as in LW with cached radiosity so different engines are more suited for different tasks.

And you can easily expand on render power by buying extra cards.

Octane plugin is a really good thing happening to Lightwave right now.

I didn't know about this aspect (surfacing) in Octane. It's kinda hard to understand how one can get a nice meterial without setting it up properly, not saying I don't belive you.
I tend to use reflection on nearly all materials as well. Never specular too. Maybe it's time to test octane.
Anyway, I wanted to say that setting up good materials makes your image look better. 5mins more of tweaking can make the difference, the render can be "nice" or "wow". SOmething like this.
Without derailng this thread, I'll swith to the proper thread.

TMAC3
01-24-2013, 10:31 PM
Thanks everyone for your support and providing me some guidence related to GI plugins. I am still experimenting with the programs and concepts related to realistic interior design. With that said I have heeded your advice regarding surfacing and Global Illumination. I thought I would try a model that I think has merrit regarding good sufacing technique. Example 1 is a sIBL method- I tend to like the way the tires rendered out. Example 2- I like the Kray render except for the tires ...they seem to be over exposed and washed out...any thoughts?