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frank.leggett
01-12-2013, 03:31 AM
Hi,

Is it possible to do the following.

Create a number of CG pages before the production on LiveText then import them into the session when you first run Live Production. Then during the production update the CG pages and save them into Tricaster without having to reload them into Tricaster.
At the moment I have create the graphic, save it to a dir that Tricaster can access then delete the previous one in the graphics bin and import then new version then move it into the same position in the bin. This is a very time consuming process during a live process and effects the performace of Tricaster because you can't do any mixing whilst loading, deleting and moving a grpahic around.

Frank

SBowie
01-12-2013, 05:49 AM
Depending on what needs updating, there may be no need to load 'new' title pages. You can revise text and even replace images (in title pages designed for that), even while they are displayed live.

There's a ton of training material in NewTek's channel on Youtube. You might find some helpful info in this one, even though it's not specifically for 455:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS6WbOrzNb4&list=PLB09E4E70E1CBABB5&index=6

frank.leggett
01-12-2013, 06:26 AM
This stuff relates to updating using the Tricaster and not updating using a remote computer running LiveText. To make this work properly you need to have a seperate control surface for the Tricaster and even then you can't do anything with the audio whilst updating a graphic. I'm looking for a way off updating the graphics remotely and for them to be automatically after saving then available in the graphics bank of the the Tricaster.

Hope that makes sense.

ZachSchuster
01-12-2013, 06:44 AM
If you have a stand alone copy of Live Text, is there a reason you aren't just using a NET input for your graphics?

frank.leggett
01-12-2013, 06:47 AM
I do use this but I need to update a number of graphics and they need to be in the graphics bin to be used in a loop of graphics instead of just one at a time.

PIZAZZ
01-12-2013, 07:08 AM
Edited after reading your last post again Frank-


What you really need is a watch folder capability like I have been asking for in the DDR? The frame buffer has this but we could use the ability to instantly load more files than just one.

You could do a work around and directly share over the network your clips folder. Then save your external livetext project to that network share. In the project save you have a folder with PNGs in it that you can load into the DDR.

You won't get auto updating but within a couple clicks you can load a new sequence.

SBowie
01-12-2013, 07:35 AM
This stuff relates to updating using the Tricaster and not updating using a remote computer running LiveText.I wasn't suggesting using LiveText on a remote computer. But if you want to update graphics while on the air live, and don't want the Switcher operator to have to do it, you've got only two choices. You can use the Frame Buffer system, or you can use an external client - either LiveText, or something with similar network connection capabilities. The latter options could include using iVGA with keying, or a suitable third-party app prepared with TriCaster network input support courtesy of our SDK.

Edit: It sounds basically like you want to swap out your entire Media Player playlist, while it's looping. A third-party app could probably be cobbled together to do this using our Remote Control SDK, but there would unavoidably be a little hiccup while switching between playlists. Apart from this, your options are more or less as above. I think your best (easiest) solution might be using iVGA PRO with a suitable player application on a client system - effectively using that app as another DDR.

PIZAZZ
01-12-2013, 07:48 AM
What Steve posted got me to thinking. Use the photo stream function of your iPad and then put that photo stream on repeat and play out to the TriCaster over AirPlay. Done like dinner.

If photo stream doesn't work then do use Dropbox

frank.leggett
01-12-2013, 02:41 PM
Hi Jeff,

The watch folder idea looks great as it is normally 10 or 12 graphics I want to alter in a total of 40 that I might load in into different bins. A long time ago I used to use a program called Scala Infochannel on an amiga and I would change the graphic need to be displayed but save it as the same file name everytime and there used to be a small exe running that looked at the time and date of the file on the disk and if the date had changed it would load in the more recent version. After that I used Inscriber RTX which had pages with tagged lines which would be filled in by simple text files and every time it loaded it would load in the text file. Are any of these possible for LiveText as a lot of the graphics I use tend to be in only a few different template styles but the info on them needs to be updated and altered during the production.

Frank

SBowie
01-12-2013, 03:19 PM
Pretty much all the 'old timers ' here started out with Amigas ... and some of my earliest paid scribblings were Scala tutorials. :)

If you're updating these titles manually, or from a text file, and only using a few different templates, I really don't see why you don't simply use LiveText to write to frame buffers.

frank.leggett
01-13-2013, 02:39 AM
Hi Steve,

I have experimented with Textfile but it means you have to have the CG being sent by the remote computer at the time. I didn't think you could save a CG File with %Text% makers and then when Tricaster displays them the makers to be filled with the text file. Or am I misunderstanding it?

SBowie
01-13-2013, 06:39 AM
I think you could export to replace frame buffer files, which would then update, without sending the page ... but thinking further about this, and without trying it, I'm not sure that Media Players will refresh frame buffer files added to a playlist. That would be a problem.

joseburgos
01-14-2013, 08:57 AM
The whole principal of using LiveText installed on the TriCaster is for scripted titles. Unscripted would require LiveText stand alone but heck you already know this and you are asking for a work around/hack/tip/trick.
So here is one:
Create new title templates and then copy and paste the title template folder in c:tricaster\effects\frame buffer\"session name". When you make a title template it also makes a folder for the name you gave in LiveText. Then inside the folder are pages001.cgxml-xxx.cgxml plus a folder for each title page with relavent data associated to the page so copy and pasting the entire root title template folder brings all the files along.
Now go into Live and to the tab you want these files to reside in (Graphics/tiltes/ddr, etc).
Here is the trick...Go to another preset with-in this Tab, example Preset2 of Tiltes.
Click on Add, Browse and then navigate to the frame buffer folder. Add the pages into the Preset. If you are going to need more than one "updated" title pages portion in your production then just do the same in another Preset but use another LiveText project name and not the same as the first to have two folders which you will copy and paste into the frame buffer folder.
Now this is my way and there may be another way as Live being able to refresh the titles...
Go to preset 01 (not the new presets) and then click on Add, Browse and navigate to the frame buffer folder for this session and delete the folder you copy and pasted in. Do this or exit Live and go to main menu Admin and use the file menu feature to do this as all we are doing is accessing the Windows file folder structure.
Once you delete the folders that you copy and pasted into frame buffer folder, go back to the new Preset/'s you made and you will notice the icons are ghost out because they don't exist anymore.
Now on an external computer, access the frame buffer for the TriCaster and when its time, copy and paste or write the new pages with the obvious all names have to be identical.
Now on the TriCaster switch to the Preset 02 and they will no longer be ghost out and instead refresh to the new title.
Seems every time you change to a new preset it loads in the new files associated with the croutons added into the tab. If you don't change the Preset, it seems they retain in buffer.
I choose Frame Buffer folder because it's already auto networked by the TriCaster to the Session in Live's folder making it easy to navigate to from an external computer.

PS Write back to this thread if it does not work because most likely I missed a step from just doing this and maybe not conveying all the steps to make it work because it definitely works :)

Take care

joseburgos
01-14-2013, 09:08 AM
I just remembered to help use on external computer that does not have LiveText, do not delete the frame buffer folder after to make the presets. Instead log into the frame buffer from external computer and cut and paste the folder from it to say your desktop. This will make the croutons be ghost out when you go to the new Preset you made.
Now open the folder on your external computer and navigate to the folder where page001.cgxml, as an example. Right click and open with Notepad on Windows or TextEdit on OSX. Locate any line that says Text="Text you wrote when you made the title template". Edit this line or lines and then save the file. Do not do a save as but instead just overwrite the files.
Now copy and paste the folder off your external computer into the TriCaster frame buffer folder and as soon as you change the preset in live from to this Preset, the new text is in the title template and ready to be displayed.

Take care

joseburgos
01-14-2013, 09:22 AM
Since I have some time right now, I did some experimenting and you don't need to delete the folder from the Frame Buffer. Just switch the Preset, edit the .cgxml page and save right from the frame buffer on the external computer. Then in Live, goto the Preset and it will refresh with the new information.
PS Do not use the gear to edit the title template and instead do this externally. The reason is the text built into the cgxml is the default text and when you edit the title template inside Live, it writes files in the session folder. By not doing this the crouton is always referencing just the default cgxml file which gets refreshed when you go away from the preset and then back to it.

SBowie
01-14-2013, 09:39 AM
Then in Live, goto the Preset and it will refresh with the new information.This is why I said that to fully automate this, the best solution would be a third-party app built using the Remote Control SDK. (I think there are already a couple of outboard third-party solutions on the market actually, surprised no-one has piped up.)

PIZAZZ
01-14-2013, 09:55 AM
I miss TriCasters having the ability to have cg files autoupdate in the Titles bin. That would make lots of my clients happy if that came back.

frank.leggett
01-17-2013, 06:12 AM
Thanks for you time and input Jose,

I do have LiveText on a seperate Laptop so I can edit and create whilst Tricaster is running. I'm just looking for a smoother way of update CG files begin used in the session without havoing to use the Net input which can be restrictive when showing CG content at the same time as wanting to edit another page. I have found the whole importing content into Tricaster a bit confusing as some content wants to be imported before the session and some during.

Frank

SBowie
01-17-2013, 06:28 AM
I have found the whole importing content into Tricaster a bit confusing as some content wants to be imported before the session and some during.Can you explain what you mean here, Frank?

frank.leggett
01-17-2013, 07:22 AM
At the start of a npormal session I use a previous session at the same venue as a template, that way all the inputs are the right settings and the input names are already done. I then import in pre-orginated graphics that the venue has given me which I show during the event (Horse Racing). Getting video content into the Tricaster during the event is a lot tricker because it is advised not to run content over the network and it's difficult to store the video files directly onto the media drive on the Tricaster. When I got the Tricaster I assumed a couple of things that turn out not to be the case. One that there is only 1 channel of recording at a time and the fact that the spec says 2 DDR is a bit confusing. Also you can't do a framegrab from any of the inputs only from the PGM output which isn't any use to me as I often don't want to show the source I'm grabbing from just a freeze of it.
Ideally I would like the different Graphics bins to be accessible from a remote computer which could alter them or add to them that way I play a bin in a loop but create or edit another bin at the same time.
The Tricaster is a marvelous piece of kit which aims to achieve a number of different tasks in one box with one operator but I still think there is room for improvements like with all products.

SBowie
01-17-2013, 07:58 AM
Well, let me see if I can work through a few of these items.

Getting video content into the Tricaster during the event is a lot tricker because it is advised not to run content over the network and it's difficult to store the video files directly onto the media drive on the Tricaster.Importing very large files while live can certainly be a pain. Depending on your network capabilities, competing traffic, and you own production network needs (streaming, LiveText, etc.), devoting a lot of bandwidth to imports can be unwise. As well, heavy use of the drive for import can interfere with playback from and recording to the same drive. For all of those good reasons, on any TriCaster model, large imports during production are discouraged, though not prevented.

Of course, this all suggests it's best to import large files in advance whenever possible - but it's not always possible. Still, it may not always be necessary to do an import. I've forgotten which TriCaster you run, but several offer eSATA ports, easily fast enough to support playback. I haven't tried it, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could connect an eSATA drive containing your new media without a hiccup. Some others may offer other ideas. Of course, there are other ways to get 'video' into a TriCaster while live .... notably, using a video input or a Net input (using Airplay, or iVGA PRO) if you have a free one.


When I got the Tricaster I assumed a couple of things that turn out not to be the case. One that there is only 1 channel of recording at a time and the fact that the spec says 2 DDR is a bit confusing.These items both vary by model. To the best of my knowledge, the details and table on the various webpages and marketing lit are correct. 455, 855 and 8000 all support multi-channel recording (we call it IsoCorder). Of current models, only TriCaster 40 does not. It's similar for Grab, I believe. Likewise, TriCaster 40 is the only model that doesn't have 2 DDRs.


Ideally I would like the different Graphics bins to be accessible from a remote computer which could alter them or add to them that way I play a bin in a loop but create or edit another bin at the same time.I think it would be possible to create playlist presets from files in a drive shared on the network, select a different preset, then update the files in the first one remotely (with the caveat about network bandwidth and drive use mentioned earlier) and finally switch to the modified preset. But this approach still has limits, and at the end of the day, there is only so much bandwidth you can take away from TriCasters more vital tasks. (It's not hugely different if we talk about 'watch folders'.)

It really sounds to me like your best solution for files needing to be updated while live would involve an external player. I'd actually really like to see someone develop a third party player using our network SDK, but even without that, iVGA PRO could easily deliver good looking footage from a player on an outboard system.


The Tricaster is a marvelous piece of kit which aims to achieve a number of different tasks in one box with one operator but I still think there is room for improvements like with all products.100% agreed.