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3dWannabe
01-09-2013, 08:27 PM
I've been getting back to using Lightwave in anticipation of the exciting 11.5 release.

I notice that in in modeler perspective full screen, if I move the 3dConnexion puck towards me, it's basically the same as if I move the puck up.

In both 3ds Max and 3dCoat, lifting the puck moves the object 'up', not towards me.

When I'm in the perspective view of Layout, viewing the same object - if I move the puck up, the object moves 'up' correctly.

As the whole idea of the puck is that the user interface will remain identical between applications, this seems an oversight?

Also, while in layout, it's possible to get into a mode (when changing from camera view, light view, perspective, etc. - and the current item), where the puck moves the opposite as it does normally.

It would be great if there were an optional hotkey to toggle adding/removing a negative sign from each of the scale values.

This way, if you want it to work in the 'default' behavior, you can, but ... if you want to quickly change to the opposite behavior, you can do that too.

BTW - I just bought one of these for the puck (as I have a 3M keyboard tray and mouse tray), and it works will with the puck.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003W0J3OY

sami
01-09-2013, 08:54 PM
I use the SpacePilot Pro and too am trying to get setting nice in Layout and Modeler. Do you use the standard driver on their site (I'm assuming you are Win 7 64bit) or the beta driver from their 3DXLabs part of their site which has extra features, including the ability to adjust that sort of thing. That may help... I'm still trying to find the way to get it working nicely.

3dWannabe
01-09-2013, 09:04 PM
The 'beta' driver you are talking about is really for programs that have not built in support (each package must provide support from inside the program). Lightwave has built in support.

You might browse thru their forums and see how that's working, it's been in beta for a very long time.

But, of the software I use, only Eyeon's Fusion doesn't support 3DConnexion.

Yes, I'm on Win7 64. If you just install the driver from the 3dconnexion site, you will be able to work with it in LW.

As I said, there are a few quirks, but ... nothing you can't get around or that would stop you dead in your tracks.

I'm just hoping that they will put the finishing touches on 3DConnexion support, as ... it's such a nice interface, and it's jarring when it operates differently with Lighwave.

sami
01-09-2013, 09:59 PM
Can you customize the buttons for Lightwave? I was unable to do that with the non-beta driver the last time I tried. That's why I was using the beta 3DXLabs driver...

3dWannabe
01-09-2013, 10:19 PM
I can press my right button and bring up 3DConnexion properties (3DConnexion's 3DxWare Panel control panel).

However, it still says MB 2012 at the top in the drop down combo box.

I spoke with the 3DConnexion tech support a long time ago, and they said the developers (as in NewTek), were supposed to implement something so that it would show 'Lightwave' in that box.

I expect they left something off that they should have implemented, because my Left button shows 'Fit' and the left button is not doing anything at all when I click it in Lightwave.

So ... there does seem be be an issue there regarding the buttons. But, it's been a while since I've dealt with it, so ... maybe I'm missing something basic?

I am able to setup the other 3D applications as far as buttons, except for Lightwave.

BTW - give 3DConnexion a call. Their 800 number was very useful to me, and I haven't needed help to use it in other apps after I originally set it up. Ask them specifically about their control panel, whether Lightwave should show up as a name in the combo box where the settings are stored? I need to call them also, and figure this out!

AbnRanger
01-12-2013, 11:37 AM
I think this is Newtek's issue. They have it set up to operate exactly like a camera, and it's locked into that orientation. So instead of treating the puck like it's the OBJECT....LW insists that it's a camera. I tried to alter it on a SpacePilot, and simply could not.

Markc
01-12-2013, 11:52 AM
I would really like to use my Space Navigator in LightWave, but the controls are all mixed up.
It works great in 3D Coat (up means up etc).

sami
01-13-2013, 04:12 AM
I think this is Newtek's issue. They have it set up to operate exactly like a camera, and it's locked into that orientation. So instead of treating the puck like it's the OBJECT....LW insists that it's a camera. I tried to alter it on a SpacePilot, and simply could not.

You are right - Newtek is doing something funky. I even tried the customizable 3DXLabs version of their driver which lets you commandeer any program and manually set up the Spacepilot. But it seems even if I set up pulling the puck up and down to be up and down in LW, Modeler still overrides it with its own internal settings....

Please fix this NewTek!! Or make it work with the 3DXLabs driver so we can customize it ourselves...

3dWannabe
01-18-2013, 03:14 PM
I spoke to 3DConnexion tech support.

I described how it worked, and his opinion was that the Lightwave implementation was screwy.

1. We certainly don't have the name 'LW Modeler or Layout' show up in the combo box of the 3dConnexion Properties dialog (where 3ds Max, etc. DO show up).

This would allow fine grained modifications to the speed, etc. of the 6 different individual axes.

2. There seems to be no way to use move than the one button to bring up the 3DConnexion properties window.

3. The ability to control an fbx object in Modeler diverges from how 3ds Max, 3dCoat, etc. control the same fbx object.

Working within those apps is easy, within Lightwave, it's a bit of a pain. You can kind of, almost get there, but ... it's not fun.

4. Over a year ago, I emailed the developers of Lightwave on 3dConnexion issues. At one time I stated in frustration that that must not be using it with other programs, and don't understand how it should work (which they said was incorrect and rude).

If the stated goal of the 3dConnexion is to provide an identical user interface to all 3d programs -- when Lightwave diverges from this identical usage paradigm, what is the logical conclusion I should have come to?

Hey, I have a lot of respect for Lightwave's developers. They've done incredible things and Lightwave is coming back BIG TIME!!!

But, I don't think they have focused on this and given it their best effort.

If you also feel this way, would like to have one identical user interface for your 3D Apps, possibly open a support ticket?

Even if you don't, having issues like this hurts Lighwave.

When a new user tries Lightwave out and doesn't buy because it's hard to use (when it could be soooo easy), it hurts us all as his $$ don't go into development of new improvements in Lightwave for all of us.

So, maybe just to remove one thing the Lightwave-haters can complain about (and a possible issue with new users that also use other 3d apps), maybe do some complaining on your own, and let's get this fixed!!!

RK_Art
05-04-2013, 12:51 PM
I can confirm that I have the same problems.
As I mainly use Cinema 4D, I am used to work all the time with my SpacePilot Pro absolutely perfect and intuitive.
When I switch to LW (I also came back with 11.5 as I had scipped LW before from my pipeline) , I feel uncomfortable with the navigation at all and especially using my SpacePilot Pro is pure pain.
All movements are inverted compared to all my other apps and there is no option to inverse inside LW and the option in the Spacepilot dialog is ignored by LW.
Very disappointing that LW is not able after all that time to provide an intuitive navigation (i.e. Maya-style) and that the 3D-Connexion-devices support is a joke.
For mouse-navigation, I start now LightKeys along with LW to have Maya-like Alt+Mouse-navigation, but for the Space Pilot, there seems not to exist a working solution.

sami
05-04-2013, 11:36 PM
Any more news on this? the SpacePilot Pro works awesome in 3DCoat and in other applications but in Lightwave Modeler or Layout it's weird and has backwards controls and no way to tweak them.

We need this fixed NewTek!! Please in your 11.5.1 fix this!

pottersfriend
05-05-2013, 10:38 AM
I too wish they would fix this. I was playing around with the latest Blender and their implementation is much better. About the only thing that didn't work was the ability to pan. If NewTek needs an example of how to implement please look to Blender.

Also, would be great if someone from NewTek could comment on this. I've been asking about this for years. Now it's implemented and it's still useless, for me, and possibly others as well.

AbnRanger
12-14-2013, 12:24 AM
I sold my seat of Lightwave a few years ago...been using only Max ever since then. But recently, I've been so mad at Autodesk (and their absurd upgrade policy...where they are hammering you if you got off subscription even one version), that I've been trying to decide between Modo and Lightwave. There are pros and cons for both, but I must say...this 3DConnexion mess is an absolute deal-breaker. I've been using my SpacePilot with Max and 3D Coat for YEARS and when I try to use it in Lightwave, it makes my head explode. It hurts my brain, being FORCED to navigate LW's way, instead of how it works in every other 3D app.

When I tested Modo during the trial period, I swear....it was the smoothest I've ever seen a 3D app work with one of those devices. Just silky smooth and by default, it treated the puck as if it was the object in your hand. THAT is the way 3dconnexion designed those devices to work!!!! Newtek, watch their product videos! A Spacepilot is supposed to mimic the object being held in the hand of the user/artist....not as a damn camera!!!! Who freaking models with a camera in their hand?!!! Please tell me.


I thought this issue would have gotten fixed by now, but it has not. It's a crying shame that a seemingly small feature like this could make my purchase decision for me. I'm not wasting money on an app that fights with me, rather than helping me.

inkpen3d
12-14-2013, 08:49 AM
Given that I've already contacted the NT tech support team regarding LW not playing nicely with the new SpaceMouse wireless (see this thread http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?138798-Problem-getting-LW-to-recognise-3DConnexion-SpaceMouse&highlight=spacemouse) and they currently are working on a fix for the next release of LW, it might be wise for you guys to raise FogBugz reports regarding the various issues you are having as soon as possible. Then, with luck, we might get a version of LW that handles 3DConnexion devices correctly and in a manor consistent with other 3D applications.

Edit: The Fogbugz report I raised - https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?67251_p3tv46dbd2groc9r

Regards,
Peter

AbnRanger
12-14-2013, 04:33 PM
Thanks. Yeah, if they can't catch on after all the threads about this issue, it makes me wonder what else are they naive or indifferent about? 3DConnexion makes it as clear as daylight HOW it is supposed to oriented. For crying out loud....they show an animation that demonstrates it, and at the end of the video, they clearly state...."IT'S LIKE HOLDING THE 3D MODEL IN YOUR HAND." They didn't say..."It's like having a CAMERA in your hand." Good grief, Newtek...LW's implementation is arse backward and the worst part about it is...IT IS LOCKED ARSE BACKWARD! Totally unusable for me.


http://youtu.be/Y7fbNMq0jP4

AbnRanger
01-28-2014, 07:54 AM
Bump for effect. I noticed they have a nice little sale going on, but I'm not coming back to LW until this issue gets resolved. What gives, Newtek?

3dWannabe
01-28-2014, 11:28 AM
Nothing is going to change until one of the managers goes the distance and tries to move the teapot in 3dConnexion's trainer (pulling it towards you, spinning, up/down, left right, etc.) - and then tries the same thing within modeler and layout.

After doing that for 2-3 minutes, the problems are quite obvious.

The 3dConnexion Trainer is included with the driver install - and you can actually keep the trainer window open and observe what it does while simultaneously trying to control and object in Lightwave.

I went into some detail about this here:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?136784-3dConnexion-Users-how-can-we-make-LightWave-support-even-better&p=1336445&viewfull=1#post1336445

At the moment, Lightwave's developers do not understand how the 3dConnexion works, so ... they can't really be expected to correct this until they do.

Rather sad, as it does work identically in 3DCoat, 3dsMax, MotionBuilder, etc. - and there's only a single developer for 3DCoat, so ... they have thrown the gauntlet down and Lightwave, sadly, is just not responding very well at this moment.

It annoys me enough to consider moving to 3ds - just have to get LWCAD for 3ds, 3ds Octane plug-in, and I'm in business as I already own it (but would need to get an upgrade). But, I think I read that you are considering moving in the opposite direction (care to elaborate more on 3ds issues that would make you want to move, how is CAT being treated in the last versions, 3ds would certainly have more value for me if CAT were still a 3rd party plug-in rather than 'supported' by AD)?

On a recent fxGuide show, I found out that ILM used 3ds on the Lone Ranger (great special effects in a rather bad movie) which surprised me and makes me think that 3ds may be getting some 'love' from AD (but .. I doubt ILM uses CAT, ha ha).

I've also been looking at Houdini, very impressed by their daily builds and bugs that actually get fixed instead of dragging out for years ... and years .. and years. If they add Octane and 3dConnexion support ... I'm in.

AbnRanger
01-28-2014, 09:48 PM
All they would need to do is open up Modo, with a SpacePilot connected, and just start navigating. It's so smooth in Modo, it almost sells the app all by itself. I think Newtek is just blowing this off, as they are not accustomed to using the devices and probably view it as a toy. Funny, practically all other 3D Apps...even Mudbox now (version 2014, I believe)...don't see it that way. As long as they continue to brush this off, I'll keep brushing Lightwave (the notion of coming back) off. If they don't care, I don't care. I've been using a SpacePilot for over 6-7yrs now, and don't plan to use/buy any 3D App that doesn't (properly) support it. To me, it's as valuable in 3D as working with a Wacom tablet is in Photoshop or any 3D Sculpting application. Sure, you CAN use a mouse and hotkeys....but why?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_O3yLp9Kek&list=PL86EBD1922106E10D&index=1

As for 3ds Max, they have adopted some really coercive upgrade policies...in fact, they initially made the upgrades cost nearly as much as a brand new license. Now, they are nor longer selling upgrades at all. You have to buy a new license, to get current, and the ONLY way to stay current...without having to turn around a few years from now and buy another seat, is to get on subscription. What made a LOT of Max users hot about this, was the fact that they weren't offering much in the past few version, that would compel you to waste your money on subscription.

As long as they keep this approach up, I'll eventually be done with them for good. But in the interim, it's easy enough to rent the current version for the month that I anticipate using it...or just stick with the version have.

They have squashed a lot of the bugs in CAT, but haven't really done anything to enhance the features in the toolset. Shame, it has a lot of potential. However, there is a sweet 3rd party plugin (CAT Survival Toolkit) for it, that is pretty inexpensive.

sami
01-31-2014, 05:16 AM
Has anyone called tech support on the phone and asked someone? Maybe they just dont monitor here enough to notice?

sami
02-14-2014, 09:57 PM
Cool!!! looks like 3D Connexion Space Pilot Pro is fixed in 11.6.2!

THANK YOU LW3DG! :thumbsup:





11.6.2 FIXES

3DCONNEXION DEVICES

Revamp the 3DMouse (Navigation) feature to support the 3DxWare driver in Windows and updated 3Dconnexion framework in OSX: This involved updates to the SDK being used and the build process to use them.
On OSX, keyboard modifier key processing now works with the modifier keys that exist on some 3D mice.
Dominant axis processing is now handed by the driver instead of inside LW.
The Button assignments in Windows have some behavior depending on context (Layout, Modeler) under Windows but not OSX yet. Some 3D mice do not have many buttons. The driver can choose whether a button is handled by the driver or passed along to LW at least.
In Modeler, a fix was made to the zoom toggle.
In Layout, orbit mode now is relative to the view point.
OSX: Navigation: use the 3DconnexionClient framework that the driver installs instead of one distributed with LW.
Modeler: view port last affected by 3D mouse is remembered. It will be used when the 2D mouse is not hovering over any view port.
Windows-only: name of application used for driver settings to distinguish Layout settings from Modeler settings more consistently
Documentation changes :
Mac/Win:
Dominant button no longer exists; 3Dconnexion driver preferences handles this
Puck speed may "feel" different
Layout:
Button bit 0 no longer hard coded to open Nav prefs in LW
Button bit 1 no longer hard coded to cycle through navigation mode
Orbit mode now is relative to the view point.
Modeler:
Zoom toggle preference behavior fixed.
Mac:
Calibrate button no longer exists; 3Dconnexion driver preferences handles this
Keyboard modifier keys on supported 3D mice now work (ESC/CTRL/ALT/SHIFT).
User must install 3Dconnexion drivers as the framework is no longer provided with the LightWave distribution.
T/L/R/F buttons do not affect 3D view ports

sculptactive
02-14-2014, 10:30 PM
I have not been able to update yet. Anyone tried it?

sami
02-15-2014, 04:44 AM
Yes, I have the Space Pilot Pro, and it works perfectly. There are even scale factors and % sensitivities you can adjust to your liking now. Now it works like it is supposed to and how it does in other apps! :thumbsup:

Thanks LW3DG!!!

sculptactive
02-15-2014, 05:00 AM
Yes, I have the Space Pilot Pro, and it works perfectly. There are even scale factors and % sensitivities you can adjust to your liking now. Now it works like it is supposed to and how it does in other apps! :thumbsup:

Thanks LW3DG!!!


Fantastic!!

sculptactive
02-15-2014, 11:22 AM
W8.1
3DxSoftware64SPP_v3-17-8_r1730
LightWave_11_6_2_2731_Win64

Well maybe somethings are too good to be true...

I installed LW11.6.2 and my SpacePilot Pro does not work at all in Layout or Modeler.

If I open LW11.6 my SpacePilot Pro works albeit terribly.

Back to the drawing board.

sculptactive
02-15-2014, 11:39 AM
W8.1
3DxSoftware64SPP_v3-17-8_r1730
LightWave_11_6_2_2731_Win64

Well maybe somethings are too good to be true...




I have opened a FogBugz. https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?68583_fm8osbou

Bitboy
02-15-2014, 04:30 PM
With the new 11.6.2 Beta my Spacenavigator is non-responsive. Checked settings and updated to the latest driver. No go... I hope it get's fixed soon! :-P Or is there a trick to get it working?

spherical
02-15-2014, 05:19 PM
Well maybe somethings are too good to be true...

I installed LW11.6.2 and my SpacePilot Pro does not work at all in Layout or Modeler.

Back to the drawing board.

Darn. I was all ready to get one.

Greenlaw
02-15-2014, 06:12 PM
I have a Space Navigator. I don't normally use it with LightWave but I'll check it out tonight and let you know how it's working out here.

G.

sami
02-15-2014, 09:28 PM
I have Win7 x64 and it works for me. I'll check which 3D Connexon driver I have loaded and post it.

Did you guys bring up Layout's options panel, go to the Nav tab, and select your device from the popup? Mine didnt work until I did that.

or it could be a win 8.x issue?

sami
02-15-2014, 09:31 PM
W8.1
3DxSoftware64SPP_v3-17-8_r1730
LightWave_11_6_2_2731_Win64

Well maybe somethings are too good to be true...

I installed LW11.6.2 and my SpacePilot Pro does not work at all in Layout or Modeler.

If I open LW11.6 my SpacePilot Pro works albeit terribly.

Back to the drawing board.

the default settings were a bit crap. I changed sensitivity to like 100% (instead of default 50%) on the rotates and increased scale factor and it was good. I'll have a look at my settings later and post them in case it helps.

sculptactive
02-16-2014, 12:31 AM
I have Win7 x64 and it works for me. I'll check which 3D Connexon driver I have loaded and post it.

Did you guys bring up Layout's options panel, go to the Nav tab, and select your device from the popup? Mine didn't work until I did that.

or it could be a win 8.x issue?


Everything looks/works in the option panel as it should. Changing anything makes no difference, the SpacePilot does not work no matter what you change. My SP Pro is as "dead as a donut" in LW 11.6.2.
My old SP Pro driver did not work, nor the latest when I updated.
So far two people have posted issues using W8x, so it could be a W8x problem. Hopefully more people will test it and a solution can be found.

Luc_Feri
02-16-2014, 04:19 AM
Hi All,

I'm on Win7 64 bit.

Space Mouse Pro, latest drivers 3.17.8. The 3D mouse works fine in 11.6, Modo and 3D coat no worries at all.

In beta version 3D Mouse is dead. No response at all with puck. The numpad works with the numeric panel and that is it.

I have observed in the working version 11.6 that the profile under navigation is - 1: 3Dconnexion:SpaceMousePro

In the beta version 11.6.2 the profile under navigation is just - 1: SpaceMousePro

I'm not sure if that is relevant but it is something that is changed and could be a point of focus.

Luc_Feri
02-16-2014, 04:28 AM
It is a beta version so I have to accept that, however I must admit I was gutted it didn't work. :(

I haven't installed 11.6.1 , I was using the october release of 11.6 until yesterday.

sami
02-16-2014, 04:48 AM
Any ideas why it works for me on 11.6.2?

And by "works" I mean works way better than it did in previous versions with these new updates allowing the movement to work as it does in other apps...

Luc_Feri
02-16-2014, 06:09 AM
Any ideas why it works for me on 11.6.2?

And by "works" I mean works way better than it did in previous versions with these new updates allowing the movement to work as it does in other apps...

I'm not sure, what drivers are you using? The drivers I'm using are very new, 3.17.8 were released on 24th January.

sculptactive
02-16-2014, 11:47 AM
I have opened a FogBugz. https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?68583_fm8osbou

I have to say LW support have been fantastic. They replied to my FogBugz almost immediately.

It turns out that those of us who have had problems are using the wrong driver. You must use the 3DxWare 10 drivers, not the 3DxSoftware drivers.

You need to go here.. http://www.3dconnexion.com/service/drivers.html
Select SpaceMouse Wireless and choose your O/S. ( Yes I know it does not sound right as there is a specific driver for the SP Pro for example, but trust me it works).
I uninstalled my old driver first before installing. Don't know if it is necessary but I did.

LW 11.6.2 now works properly with my SP Pro.

Luc_Feri
02-16-2014, 01:52 PM
Thanks!!

Yes, I can confirm that this has now fixed the problem!

It works in LW 11.6.2, 3D coat still seems to work fine whereas Modo is slightly off.

Starting up Modo no config/profile loads up with the 3dxware application. It will still have modeler as the loaded config or layout or even 3D coat if I was last using that program. By right clicking on the3dxware icon on the toolbar and then clicking off again whilst ensuring that no other applications running seems to revert 3dxware back to the default zz3dconnexion profile.xml. Modo doesn't work right if the modeler/layout config is still active as the function keys do not work. Returning 3dxware back to at least a default zz3dconnexion profile allows the use of the funtion keys. I'll just have to see if I can create a Modo profile/config somehow.

On default setting the puck was like treacle in modeler but I soon got that back to taste. I didn't mind the way it used to work in Modeler anyway but now in Layout it works just like I hoped it should do. You do have to sometimes switch between view or current item to get best use but being able to tweak the camera with the puck properly for fine tuning the render shot is great!!!

Cheers for help!

P.S. Just to add I did full uninstall of the old drivers and installed new 3DxWare drivers.

Bitboy
02-16-2014, 02:28 PM
Thanks for the info. Now I got my Spacenavigator working with the drivers you mentioned too.. :-)

sculptactive
02-16-2014, 02:32 PM
Thanks!!

Starting up Modo no config/profile loads up with the 3dxware application. It will still have modeler as the loaded config or layout or even 3D coat if I was last using that program. By right clicking on the3dxware icon on the toolbar and then clicking off again whilst ensuring that no other applications running seems to revert 3dxware back to the default zz3dconnexion profile.xml. Modo doesn't work right if the modeler/layout config is still active as the function keys do not work. Returning 3dxware back to at least a default zz3dconnexion profile allows the use of the funtion keys. I'll just have to see if I can create a Modo profile/config somehow.

In Modo where is the 3dxware icon on the toolbar?

Luc_Feri
02-16-2014, 02:36 PM
In Modo where is the 3dxware icon on the toolbar?


Sorry If I had misled, I didn't mean I had a 3DxWare icon that was insde of Modo.

I'm on Win7, the icon is always in my hidden icon list at the bottom of the windows toolbar which you can right-click on for more properties.

sculptactive
02-16-2014, 03:59 PM
Sorry If I had misled, I didn't mean I had a 3DxWare icon that was insde of Modo.

I'm on Win7, the icon is always in my hidden icon list at the bottom of the windows toolbar which you can right-click on for more properties.

Thanks for the confirmation.

pottersfriend
02-17-2014, 12:57 PM
I can also confirm that you need to use the 3DxWare 10 wireless driver to get this to work. This is a great improvement but still lacks the ability to pan. It would seem to me if you have the ability to make all the other navigation features work that they would somehow be able to make the pan function work. Is there something I'm missing? Does anyone have the ability to pan with a 3D Connexion device in modeler? I've be waiting for 3D Connexion support since version 8 and every time Newtek says they have 3D Connexion support it's always lacking in some way. Yes, they are improving but how long should it take them to do this. Just frustrated and disappointed every time they get my hopes up.

lardbros
02-18-2014, 01:38 AM
Sooo... Newtek have updated the support, but with the wrong drivers??

How is ANYONE going to know this when they first start up LW and wonder why the drivers specified by 3dConnexion for that device, don't even work??

Jeeeeeeesussss! Thanks for trying Newtek, but can you make them work with the correct drivers please? I've got a SpaceMouse Pro, and would want all the buttons to work etc.
Why would they have made it work for the Wireless device driver is totally beyond me!

sculptactive
02-18-2014, 02:43 AM
Well I have played around with LW 11.6.2 and the wireless 3DxWare64_v10-0-20_r1721 driver for sometime.

Sadley I have removed it now and reinstalled the proper SP Pro driver.
Why? Because my SP Pro worked ok in Lw 11.6.2, but not great when compared to how it works in Modo and 3DC.
Worse still the wireless driver made my SP Pro very buggy in Modo and 3DC. Luc_Feri posted a work around but that is not ideal solution.

I want to believe that the developer knows something we do not, as why would he develop it for the wireless driver? It just does not make any sense.
How can it work so well in Modo and 3DC and still be so poor in LW unless Newtek have gone for a quick fix instead of resolving the issue properly.

Luc_Feri
02-18-2014, 07:19 AM
Ah, I'm not surprised you have gone back to the original drivers. I don't like the 3DxWare properties panel really and there does not seem to be any function to set up custom profiles for each application like with the 3DxSoftware drivers.

3D coat seemed to be very sensitive, which I dialled back down from my other previous setup. Modo was awkward with no profile being loaded up and the workaround is a bit of a pain.

At the moment it is a step forward but not a long term solution really. I have got my settings working decently with Ligtwave and have programmed some buttons to suit, but it has come at some functionality cost with my other applications. Not ideal.

lardbros
02-18-2014, 07:58 AM
I hate to sound negative in regards to this... but I've had this as a bug report for quite a long time now, and I WISH they'd consulted me before they went with these versions of the 3dConnexion drivers. I'd have just said "Nope... try the others"... no one uses the v10 of the 3dxware ones. We tried them a few years ago after their claim that they work in ANY software, but they simply aren't quite as good as the original ones.

Hope they get this sorted for release! At least it's in beta eh?

Luc_Feri
02-18-2014, 08:37 AM
I hate to sound negative in regards to this... but I've had this as a bug report for quite a long time now, and I WISH they'd consulted me before they went with these versions of the 3dConnexion drivers. I'd have just said "Nope... try the others"... no one uses the v10 of the 3dxware ones. We tried them a few years ago after their claim that they work in ANY software, but they simply aren't quite as good as the original ones.

Hope they get this sorted for release! At least it's in beta eh?


Ah I didn't realise these 3DxWare drivers had been around for a while and their puropse. If so then really this is not a great solution at all and they need to get the proper drivers working with Lightwave.

3dWannabe
02-18-2014, 11:09 AM
...

It turns out that those of us who have had problems are using the wrong driver. You must use the 3DxWare 10 drivers, not the 3DxSoftware drivers.
....

The 3DxWare 10 drivers are the 'Anywhere' drivers that had been beta for so long that no one uses.

Using them would cause all the other apps that are written correctly to be completely messed up.

The 10.x 'Anywhere' drivers are for apps that DO NOT provide any native 3DConnexion support.

They have NOT replaced the 3.x drivers.

When I pull up the official SpaceNavigator drivers for Win7-64, version 3.17.8 from 1/30/2014 shows up (an up-to-date current driver).

Only the SpaceMouse Wireless seems to specify those 10.x drivers.

ALL of the other products (SpacePilot Pro, SpaceNavigator, SpaceExplorer, SpaceMouse PRO use the 3.17.8 drivers.

You can verify this by looking at each product here: http://www.3dconnexion.com/service/drivers.html

Please tell me that Newtek didn't write for the 10.x 'Anywhere' drivers - as pretty much all 3DConnexion users use many apps which must keep working exactly as before, and generally seem to use the SpacePilot Pro, SpaceMouse Pro or SpaceNavigator?

sculptactive
02-18-2014, 11:13 AM
Please tell me that Newtek didn't write for the 10.x 'Anywhere' drivers - as pretty much all 3DConnexion users use many apps which must keep working exactly as before, and generally seem to use the SpacePilot Pro, SpaceMouse Pro or SpaceNavigator?

Yep it seems they have.

3dWannabe
02-18-2014, 11:31 AM
Yep it seems they have.
Wow - so they just effectively killed 3DConnexion support for Lightwave - for anyone using other apps?

Literally years ago, the developers got quite offended with me when I suggested that they didn't understand how the 3DConnexion works and were not using it with other apps.

If they were using 3D-Coat, MotionBuilder, 3ds Max, etc. - this new mistake would have been impossible.

I guess they think NewTek lives on it's own island, with a machine just dedicated to Lightwave, with no other apps running.

This unjustified hubris makes it harder for LW to integrate with other apps in a workflow, and ultimately hurts them.

I should stop being so negative ... they did find a new creative way to fail ... by writing for the wrong drivers.

jeric_synergy
02-18-2014, 12:21 PM
Seems like a bit of management-fail.

What'$ the likely time to implement the correct drivers? How many users are affected?

spherical
02-18-2014, 02:43 PM
The 10.x 'Anywhere' drivers are for apps that DO NOT provide any native 3DConnexion support.

They have NOT replaced the 3.x drivers.

Bingo. Band-aid fix, at best.

pottersfriend
02-18-2014, 04:35 PM
Not impressed or surprised.

Snosrap
02-19-2014, 10:33 AM
That's why it's beta. fog your issues.

inkpen3d
02-19-2014, 10:47 AM
Unfortunately, it looks like the LWDG haven't realised that there are two sets of device drivers available and have inadvertently been developing their code as though ALL 3Dconnexion devices use just one set of device drivers. So, in attempting to resolve problems that have been recently flagged up with the newly released Wireless SpaceMouse, they fixed and tested their code to get it working with just the Wireless SpaceMouse's version 10 drivers, and in the process knackered all the other 3Dconnexion devices using the 3.17.8 drivers!

lardbros
02-19-2014, 11:50 AM
The issue is that Newtek didn't support the old drivers at all either though... none of the speed settings or anything took into account the installed drivers. I logged plenty of fogbugz reports letting them know how it all should work, and why it isn't anywhere near as good as other software's implementations... and now this is what we get.

If only they'd spoken to the users of 3dConnexion devices and we could have told them that the v10 3dxware drivers are useless, and like someone else said, been in beta for years.
We've been using SpacePilots and 3dconnexion devices for a decade... so could have told them in seconds why the v10 drivers are pap. I hope they add support for the normal drivers, and maybe this is in their plans?

I'm going log a bug report anyway.

lardbros
02-19-2014, 12:13 PM
Logged a fogbugz, and had a reply already. They're going to get in touch with their contact at 3dConnexion :( Then closed the call.

Sounds like a bit of a mess up :(

Hopefully they can get it sorted pretty quickly, they're a clever bunch!

jwiede
02-21-2014, 12:51 PM
Logged a fogbugz, and had a reply already. They're going to get in touch with their contact at 3dConnexion :( Then closed the call.

They closed the call, or the bug? Hopefully not the latter, as the issue hasn't been addressed yet.

lardbros
02-21-2014, 01:13 PM
They closed the call/bug... Like I said. They told me they'd get in touch with their contact at 3dConnexion and that was it... Then closed the call.

Snosrap
02-21-2014, 01:14 PM
They closed the call, or the bug? Hopefully not the latter, as the issue hasn't been addressed yet. It very well could have been addressed, fixed and therefore close -just not released yet. Hopefully anyway. :)

lardbros
02-21-2014, 01:18 PM
Yeah... Maybe... But normally they say that when they close the bug.

We'll wait and see eh?

lardbros
02-26-2014, 07:19 AM
I popped them an email to ask why my bug report had been closed... hope I didn't sound too rude.

Anyway... they said it's because it had been fixed. So... all good for the next beta I hope!

Not sure why they don't poke their heads in here and say so... it would stop a lot of people getting irritated! :D

So... to end the frustration, I thought I'd let you guys know :D

Greenlaw
02-26-2014, 11:09 AM
Not sure why they don't poke their heads in here and say so... it would stop a lot of people getting irritated! :D
I'm not surprised by that...the forums can be a real time-sucker for developers, especially if they have to take time to carefully craft their responses. Past responses to forum posts have gotten them into PR trouble because some users can be very literal, parsing every single word and being completely unforgiving about the slightlest contractions--you know, like an Infocom game.

I am surprised that you got a quick response to your email and that's pretty cool. :)

G.

3dWannabe
02-26-2014, 03:25 PM
Got an email on a new version of 11.6.2 with fixes for 3DConnexion support:
--
Getting this to you early - hopefully this will be "open beta live" on Friday

Support both v6 and v10 3DxWare Windows drivers; Viewports only manipulated when application is active; fix rare crash when fewer devices available then the one being queried.
---
I just asked if I can post the link and password. I'm really swamped with a new girlfriend moving in. Hope 2 test 2nite.

lardbros
02-26-2014, 03:52 PM
I got this too (sorry...) and have tested a little bit. Found a slight issue, and let Deuce know. I reckon they get it sorted very quickly though... They seem like they're all over this at the moment! :-)

Right... the button macro's now work!!!! This is truuuuuly brilliant! My SpaceMouse Pro is not pointless any longer! :D

lardbros
02-26-2014, 04:25 PM
Is anyone else with the new test build getting strange glitching speed ups and slow downs in Modeller's implementation?

AbnRanger
02-27-2014, 12:39 AM
The only issues I seem to notice is that the orbiting doesn't have a dedicated pivot point...it's kind of ad hoc. In 3D Coat there are options for setting the center of rotation...ie, Pick Point, Object Bounding Box, World Center, etc. LW needs at least an option to rotate around pick point or world center. It's close to working right, but not quite there, without this option. Also, when you switch to 3D Coat, the device senses what app you working in and will bring up your application sets (of commands). So, if you switch to Photoshop, it changes to a PS preset. That way you don't have to change it manually each time you go back and forth.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cQZa3tAMtU&list=PL86EBD1922106E10D&index=5

lardbros
02-27-2014, 01:26 AM
The only issues I seem to notice is that the orbiting doesn't have a dedicated pivot point...it's kind of ad hoc. In 3D Coat there are options for setting the center of rotation...ie, Pick Point, Object Bounding Box, World Center, etc. LW needs at least an option to rotate around pick point or world center. It's close to working right, but not quite there, without this option. Also, when you switch to 3D Coat, the device senses what app you working in and will bring up your application sets (of commands). So, if you switch to Photoshop, it changes to a PS preset. That way you don't have to change it manually each time you go back and forth.



Totally and utterly agree! I passed on the personalised command thing to Deuce... We ideally want it to be different depending on Layout or Modeller. Not sure why this doesn't work out of the box... But it would be good if it did.

My modeller implementation seems choppy and a bit crap. I'll try a reboot and see if it goes away.

Have you mentioned to Deuce about the centre point thing? That's the one thing that's missing really.

Also... Strange default values for scale and sensitivity within Layout and Modeller... Why can't they all be 0 to 100 and default to perfect like in 3dsmax?!?

inkpen3d
02-27-2014, 04:54 AM
Below (in yellow) is a copy of some test results I sent Deuce on the 4th Feb from using the wireless version of the SpaceMouse (using V10.x drivers) on a pre-release version of LW11.6.2 beta - I pointed out that the performance in Modeler was not on a par with Layout and needed a lot of TLC.

As an aside - just for the hell of it I tried uninstalling the V10.x drivers (specific to the wireless SpaceMouse) and replacing them with the V3.17.8 drivers and I was somewhat surprised to find that the SpaceMouse still worked okay - even with the wireless dongle (maybe the drivers for this didn't get uninstalled?)! So now I've got the more advanced control panel for the SpaceMouse, etc. Installing the V3.17.3 drivers also cured a long-standing problem I had with the V10 drivers screwing up use of my USB Xbox controller (e.g. if I wanted to play Splinter Cell Blacklist I had to first uninstall the V10 drivers as there was no other way of disabling them - not even from the OS Device Manager - which was a pain to put it mildly). Of course, the downside with the V3.17.8 drivers is that the SpaceMouse now doesn't work with LW - can't win! :(


Layout:
Generally good results...

The SpaceMouse Properties panel now recognises Layout and the Advanced Settings options directly affect the various axes controls correctly and interactively.
The SpaceMouse is recognised as a navigation device in Layout.
All pan/zoom/rotational axes behave as expected.
The device also shows up in the Virtual Studio Device Manager - both for the wireless and the USB connections - and, when enabled, the various Track values change as the device is used.



Modeler:
Generally, alas very poor results...

The SpaceMouse Properties panel now recognises Modeler.
The SpaceMouse is recognised as a navigation device.
If you have the SpaceMouse properties panel(s) open you no longer have any influence on POV in Modeler (unlike in Layout where you can change control settings and observe what happens).
When you close the SpaceMouse properties panel the puck no longer has any control over Modeler until you click in a viewport with the mouse, which is confusing to say the least until you find out by chance what's going on.
The navigation appears to be stuck in object-centric mode - i.e. you can only zoom in/out or rotate the POV around the 0,0,0 point. Not much good if you are working on a large structure like a building. It would be good to have both object-centric and freedom to move the POV available.
Zoom-in/out controls are set to the Up/Down movement of the knob on the SpaceMouse puck. However, when the Advanced Settings of the SpaceMouse are examined, the Zoom Direction is marked as Forward/Backward !!!
If you then swap the Zoom-in/out control to be Up/Down in the SpaceMouse properties, pushing the knob on the puck forwards Zooms out and visa versa, which is counter-intuitive. You cannot change this behaviour via the SpaceMouse Advanced Settings!!!
The Zoom Direction selections in the SpaceMouse Advanced Settings are mixed up and confusing. Selecting Up/Down results in the Reverse box being ticked for the Up/Down Control - why?
If you move the mouse pointer out of a given view-port window whilst using the SpaceMouse (e.g. whilst rotating the POV) results in termination of that SpaceMouse operation - which probably explains why you can't interactively change SpaceMouse control settings.


I could go on and on, but life is just too short! ;-)

Basically, and based on my limited testing, whilst Layout looks to be working okay with the SpaceMouse, Modeler on the other hand is completely screwed up and does not even remotely conform to the way Layout interacts with the SpaceMouse (even taking into account its object-centric modus operandi). I'd say that the code associated with 3Dconnexion device interaction with Modeler needs a major overhaul and some very rigorous testing.

AbnRanger
02-27-2014, 05:18 AM
Totally and utterly agree! I passed on the personalised command thing to Deuce... We ideally want it to be different depending on Layout or Modeller. Not sure why this doesn't work out of the box... But it would be good if it did.

My modeller implementation seems choppy and a bit crap. I'll try a reboot and see if it goes away.

Have you mentioned to Deuce about the centre point thing? That's the one thing that's missing really.

Also... Strange default values for scale and sensitivity within Layout and Modeller... Why can't they all be 0 to 100 and default to perfect like in 3dsmax?!?I recorded a brief session mentioning the few things I noticed, and sent them to Deuce. Not sure if it will get seen or not, so I'll post it here as well, for good measure


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5zx7iMKxeu5cGhabkhWaTY2RjA/edit

inkpen3d
02-27-2014, 05:37 AM
Excellent video Don, which explains some of the issues in Layout very clearly! I'm still new to using the SpaceMouse, so some of my observations might have been me getting things confused about how it should all work due to my ignorance. It would be very useful if you could also generate a similar video for the problems in Modeler and send that to Deuce. I could be wrong, but it seems that there's some confusion (or possibly ignorance on the part of the LWDG) that there's two different modes you can use the 3Dconnexion devices in: Object-centred, and "camera" modes. At the moment we don't have the ability to switch between the two nor, as you point out in your video, any means of choosing the rotation centre when (supposedly) in the Object-centred mode.

AbnRanger
02-27-2014, 07:16 AM
Excellent video Don, which explains some of the issues in Layout very clearly! I'm still new to using the SpaceMouse, so some of my observations might have been me getting things confused about how it should all work due to my ignorance. It would be very useful if you could also generate a similar video for the problems in Modeler and send that to Deuce. I could be wrong, but it seems that there's some confusion (or possibly ignorance on the part of the LWDG) that there's two different modes you can use the 3Dconnexion devices in: Object-centred, and "camera" modes. At the moment we don't have the ability to switch between the two nor, as you point out in your video, any means of choosing the rotation centre when (supposedly) in the Object-centred mode.In LW's Preference Panel under the Navigation tab, I initially thought the OBJECT button meant it would be used as the center of rotation. It is not. It actually moves the object instead.

After a little further testing, I did discover that IF...you save a config for your SpacePilot/SpacePilot Pro just for LW, it will remember that config when you come back to LW. But you HAVE to first save one. For some reason, it doesn't recognize LW on it's own. In fairness, it doesn't recognize 3D Coat straightaway, either. You have to save configs with 3DC open, for it to remember.

But Autodesk apps have more elaborate plugins/scripts for the device, natively....that's why it works straightaway, with them. That leaves the center of rotation issue the main grievance at this point. Plus the default orientation should be OBJECT mode, not Camera mode.

dvrba
02-27-2014, 08:38 AM
Hi!

The initial implementation of the navigation feature were geared more toward the view point. I see the value in object/item-centric manipulation as well.

The recent 3Dconnexion support updates for 11.6.2 are primarily to support the 3Dx driver approach to gaining access to these devices, since the SpaceMouse Wireless was not accessible in our initial implementation.

Thank you for the feedback; it will certainly help us progress the implementation in the ways artist need.

lardbros
02-27-2014, 08:41 AM
Cool... and thanks David for popping and clarifying.

At least you see the need for the user, and sounds like there may be potential for this in a future release. So far, bugs aside... it's better than what we had in Layout before. But Modeller seems extremely laggy and inconsistent speed-wise on my machine.

Any ideas?

dvrba
02-27-2014, 08:44 AM
Can you elaborate? Is it also present in Layout? Does it happen regardless of which driver being used? Does it occur in other apps on the same machine?

I had noticed a strange 'feeling' when the dominant axis mode is enabled and the puck was moving more than one axis in an extreme. The dominant axis would jump between different axes as one overtook the other. It was like the driver did not wait for the puck to return to zero before choosing a new dominant axis. I want to rule this possibility out.

A short video would help.

Thanks!

dvrba
02-27-2014, 08:53 AM
Can you rule out a view port refresh rate limitation? For example, is it smooth when using a 2D mouse to manipulate the view port?

lardbros
02-27-2014, 08:58 AM
Sorry David... Modeller seems to be better today. It was happening last night on a box... but isn't doing it today on a more complex object.

It wasn't a viewport refresh rate issue I don't think... but difficult to nail down now it's not doing it.


Just found something else though.
I've set up SHIFT+A in Modeller for my FIT button on my SpaceMouse Pro.

If I go into the Modeller Nav settings and turn on 'Zoom in Perspective'. It works... but as soon as I use my FIT button, to centre the object, it turns off 'Zoom in perspective'. Completely repeatable unfortunately.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, with zoom in perspective... I kind of expect my SpaceMouse to be pushed to zoom in, not to push it down. (When using zoom in perspective mode). What does everyone else expect in this regard?


With the same shortcut added in Layout... it seems to turn on 'Current Item' when I press the FIT button on my SpaceMouse Pro, which has been setup with SHIFT+A. Very annoying indeed!

sculptactive
02-27-2014, 09:09 AM
Also, with zoom in perspective... I kind of expect my SpaceMouse to be pushed to zoom in, not to push it down. (When using zoom in perspective mode). What does everyone else expect in this regard?

(corrected I just checked Modo/3DC)
For me Pushed forward should zoom away.

dvrba
02-27-2014, 10:03 AM
Just found something else though.
I've set up SHIFT+A in Modeller for my FIT button on my SpaceMouse Pro.

If I go into the Modeller Nav settings and turn on 'Zoom in Perspective'. It works... but as soon as I use my FIT button, to centre the object, it turns off 'Zoom in perspective'. Completely repeatable unfortunately.

With the same shortcut added in Layout... it seems to turn on 'Current Item' when I press the FIT button on my SpaceMouse Pro, which has been setup with SHIFT+A. Very annoying indeed!

Are you sure you are using the latest 11.6.2? That sounds like what would happen on earlier versions.

AbnRanger
02-27-2014, 10:46 AM
Hi!

The initial implementation of the navigation feature were geared more toward the view point. I see the value in object/item-centric manipulation as well.

The recent 3Dconnexion support updates for 11.6.2 are primarily to support the 3Dx driver approach to gaining access to these devices, since the SpaceMouse Wireless was not accessible in our initial implementation.

Thank you for the feedback; it will certainly help us progress the implementation in the ways artist need.I'm certainly glad you have gotten this far. With the ability to select a Center of Rotation, I would be pretty happy with the support, overall. Here is a video that covers how you can quickly switch between OBJECT mode and CAMERA mode in 3ds Max, among other options. Maybe this will provide some food for thought.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyGPSJ_O61Y&list=PL86EBD1922106E10D&index=6

RK_Art
03-04-2014, 03:32 PM
My SpacePilot Pro device does not work any more in LW 11.6.2.
It is listed in the Nav-Panel, but moving the joystick has no movement-reaction in Layout or modeler, only the buttons cause a reaction in LW.
I installed the freshest driver.
Anyone with the same problem or solutions ?

jboudreau
03-22-2014, 04:41 AM
Hi Guys

I really want to get a SpaceMouse Pro or SpacePilot Pro and was wondering if all these quirks with 3Dconnexion Devices was now fixed and working both in Modeler and Layout like it does in all other software using the Final Build of Lightwave 11.6.2 Final Release? Also can we now use the 3.17.8 drivers?



Thanks,
Jason



I recorded a brief session mentioning the few things I noticed, and sent them to Deuce. Not sure if it will get seen or not, so I'll post it here as well, for good measure


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5zx7iMKxeu5cGhabkhWaTY2RjA/edit

gerry_g
03-22-2014, 06:20 AM
LW 11.6.2 recognises it just fine (config panel propagates properly with all settings) however I would not say its perfect as even if you max out all the settings it is slow (Modo 701.sp5 runs very fast) on screen radial menus appear correctly (won't show up in Modo) but zoom is wrong and does not work and is assigned incorrectly to the up down command (all functions are correct in Modo). Honesty I only ever use it for camera movement, buy a tablet it does what a mouse or a space mouse can never do, give you speed and agility by the bucket load

jboudreau
03-22-2014, 06:40 AM
LW 11.6.2 recognises it just fine (config panel propagates properly with all settings) however I would not say its perfect as even if you max out all the settings it is slow (Modo 701.sp5 runs very fast) on screen radial menus appear correctly (won't show up in Modo) but zoom is wrong and does not work and is assigned incorrectly to the up down command (all functions are correct in Modo). Honesty I only ever use it for camera movement, buy a tablet it does what a mouse or a space mouse can never do, give you speed and agility by the bucket load

When you say slow is that both in modeler and Layout. Also I though they fixed the zoom issue as stated in the LW changes document "Zoom toggle preference behavior fixed." Is that not the fact?

gerry_g
03-22-2014, 07:37 AM
there is Zoom and Zoom in Perspective, checking and unchecking either only turns the function on or off and does not make it perform to the manufactures intended specification as it does correctly and faultlessly in Modo, speed is identical for Modeler and Layout, the inability to to use a usable 'Y' translation and only have a zoom (improperly) implemented is defiantly still a big annoyance. Actually after playing further altering the scale values in the config panel gives me parity with Modo for speed but zoom is odd it is supposed to work by pressing forward or back on the device, and in Modo it works as such, but in Lightwave whether you pull or posh you still zoom in and pulling up and down on the device which is supposed to perform 'Y' translation (as it does in Modo) performs zoom (up for out, down for in) this is totally wrong and does not seem to be correctable, sorry I got up late it's Saturday and not awake yet

jwiede
03-23-2014, 02:08 PM
Gerry, might want to check what mode you're in within LW's Nav panel. In LW "Current Item" mode, up/down moves object up/down as expected with final 11.6.2 (2736), at least on Mac (I just checked).

Having said that, is there any easy way (iow, easier than calling up Nav prefs and changing there) to change between different Nav modes in LW? Can the different modes be mapped to keyboard shortcuts somehow without invoking external-to-LW control mechanisms (such as AHK or Automator, etc.)? The actual device behavior is quite improved in LW, no question, but I'm not a fan of having to keep the Nav prefs panel open just to control navigation modes, that still feels quite clunky.

gerry_g
03-23-2014, 06:40 PM
most likely true and I just haven't set it up right, confess I never usually use it in modeller just layout, even my assessment of layout was off, tried it again on a much smaller scene and all axes work as expected, moral never test anything with a 3M poly scene

3dWannabe
03-31-2014, 11:37 PM
Just now installing 11.6.2 and trying the 3dConnexion Space Navigator puck (life got very complicated for a month or so).

My first impression from a quick try in Modeler and Layout is good.

In layout, after adding a negative sign before all scales and changing the sensitivity to 100% (probably needs to be higher), I was pleasantly surprised to find that when I changed from perspective to Light to Camera view, when I moved up, the scene acted the way I wanted, I was moving the camera or the light up and could easily point them at the object without having to add or remove a negative sign in front of scale.

Before, when you changed the view mode, it would suddenly go up when you were trying to go down. So, this is Great!!!

In Modeler, after adding a negative sign in front of all scales and changing sensitivity to 400%, it worked pretty well.

The only 'bug' I'm noticing on first glance is that in Modeler, when I pull up on the puck, my object moves towards me, not up (in the perspective view).

If you go into the 3DConnexion 'Trainer' to the 'all active' tab and pull up, the teapot goes ... up, not towards you.

This does make it difficult to actually go 'up' when you want to, so ... I hope this gets changed.

I also didn't see any 'Lightwave' names in the (just 'any application') in the 3dConnexion properties window (that is used for all applications). So, I'd guess Lightwave is using it's own dialogs, not the one supplied by 3DConnexion, which certainly may have advantages in terms of customizability.

It's certainly a major step forward, bravo for getting it working this well.

Anyone care to make a short video showing how you've customized and gotten your puck to work and any tips for getting the puck to work most efficiently?

ernpchan
04-01-2014, 12:12 AM
The only 'bug' I'm noticing on first glance is that in Modeler, when I pull up on the puck, my object moves towards me, not up (in the perspective view).

I also didn't see any 'Lightwave' names in the (just 'any application') in the 3dConnexion properties window (that is used for all applications). So, I'd guess Lightwave is using it's own dialogs, not the one supplied by 3DConnexion, which certainly may have advantages in terms of customizability.


You should file a bug report.

gerry_g
04-01-2014, 07:44 AM
I think I used 100% for sensitivity then upped the scale values by a positive amount rather than a negative but like you where as all axes work correctly in Layout push/pull for zoom is not working and is clearly being replaced by lift up/press down, I have a feeling it is because the dev team think we are all old school and model in quad view rather than one single perspective window as you would in any other modern app

sculptactive
04-13-2014, 02:21 PM
Installed 11.6.2. My SpacePilot Pro does not work at all in LW now.

As always in Modo/3DC it still works perfectly.

ingemarsland
08-25-2014, 04:40 AM
Can someone confirm the status of these problems? Are they solved and what drivers work best? Did Newtek finally get everything right?

sculptactive
08-25-2014, 04:50 AM
Not as far as I am aware. I gave up trying to resolve the issues in LW, life is too short.
3DC/Modo all work great with latest SpacePilot Pro driver.

ingemarsland
08-25-2014, 01:49 PM
Hmm, I'm getting contradictory answers here. The answer from 3dConnexion is that all is well and fully functional in LW with the latest drivers (10.2.0 on OSX). Not so then?

(I'm waiting for my disc from Apple to upgrade to Mountain Lion, so I can't try myself yet…)

lardbros
08-25-2014, 02:23 PM
Maybe there's something being worked on for this? They've closed some of my bug reports!

ingemarsland
09-01-2014, 01:48 PM
I tried it with Mountain Lion and got everything to work! Zoom is still acting a bit strange though. With SketchUp I can very easily "precision-fly" into details on a model, but this is much more difficult with LW. I'm not sure what's wrong, it's just awkward.

lardbros
09-01-2014, 02:21 PM
Is that zoom in Modeller?
It's a bit wonky, almost unusable... But my bug report/feature request has been closed, so presume this has all been fixed! Just wait for the next build release I guess!?

ingemarsland
09-01-2014, 03:20 PM
Yes, that's in Modeller. It's very difficult to use. Let's hope they will sort it out for the next release - very promising that they reacted to your bug report. Have you pinpointed what is actually the problem with zooming? I thought for a while that it wasn't zooming in the direction of the (perspective) view, but instead moving parallel to the ground, but I'm not sure. It takes way too much fiddling to get to the position I want.

lardbros
09-01-2014, 03:34 PM
It's basically screwed in Modeller.
Zooming doesn't really work the way you'd expect it to, nor the way it works in Layout... But I'm hoping the next build sorts it all out! Fingers crossed! It's been a while... But all will be forgiven if they sort this out, I love my 3d Space Mouse!

inkpen3d
09-02-2014, 06:54 AM
Almost a year ago, I reasoned that a 3D Connexion SpaceMouse (wireless) would be really useful to have as a navigation device when working with LightWave. So, based on the fact that both the 3DConnexion and the LightWave web sites stated that the SpaceMouse Wireless worked with LW, I went ahead and purchased one. Annoyingly, I still find the device pretty much unusable in both Layout and Modeler - it just doesn't have the intuitive behaviour you'd expect, whereas other applications seem to have had no problem getting that completely sorted. Needless to say, I'm not at all impressed with the LW implementation and wish I'd never spent my money on the device - the SpaceMouse has basically turned into a rather expensive paperweight sitting on a shelf gathering dust and I'm seriously contemplating selling it on eBaying before it looses too much of its value!

gerry_g
09-02-2014, 07:31 AM
Agree Modo seems to run it effortlessly without any need for so much as a single tweak to the settings, but then again I really see it as a camera move tool (for which the Space Mouse excels in Layout) not a modelling tool, a tablet will serve you much better when it comes to speed of manipulation, you should be using the modifier keys for pan rotate and zoom in conjunction with your input device, I would think even a poxy mouse would beat the space mouse when used in this manner

Snosrap
09-02-2014, 07:49 AM
I fail to see the need for a 3D Connexion device with Modeler. I've got one and never use it - with Modeler anyway. To be efficient with Modeler it's important to use the keyboard shortcuts and thats pretty hard when you have one hand on the mouse and the other on the 3D Connexion. I use my 3D Connexion with Inventor all the time because for me that app is run from the menus and ribbons with some numeric input. Navigating the viewports in LW is second nature with the Alt, Alt+Ctrl, Alt+Shift with mouse down combinations, plus your fingers are right there to hit those all important keyboard shortcuts.

lardbros
09-02-2014, 12:52 PM
I use my 3d mouse for modelling in 3dsmax ALL the time... In fact there are certain things you can do with it that you simply cannot do without it! (Creating a poly between two very long and thin and far apart points.
3dsmax does have a way better right mouse button context sensitive menu... So I don't have to use the keyboard very much at all.

sculptactive
09-02-2014, 03:47 PM
I fail to see the need for a 3D Connexion device with Modeler. I've got one and never use it - with Modeler anyway. To be efficient with Modeler it's important to use the keyboard shortcuts and thats pretty hard when you have one hand on the mouse and the other on the 3D Connexion. I use my 3D Connexion with Inventor all the time because for me that app is run from the menus and ribbons with some numeric input. Navigating the viewports in LW is second nature with the Alt, Alt+Ctrl, Alt+Shift with mouse down combinations, plus your fingers are right there to hit those all important keyboard shortcuts.

Stopped using Modeler a long time ago as it did not support the SpacePilot Pro properly.
In Modo the SpacePilot Pro runs perfectly.
Sad but true.