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Kaptive
12-28-2012, 04:08 PM
So I'm just playing with a scene, and quite honestly, I'm being lazy. I don't want to put it through after effects or any of that jazz.

Only now, playing with lens flares in Lightwave do I realise how terribly out of date they are. I did a search on lightwave lens flares, and this has been brought up before. Saying that Lightwave was the flagship for lens flares back in the early days, it seems to have completely stopped there too.

As this is a post effect, is it possible for the devs to squeeze in a little upgrade to it before 11.5? Just a few more controls over the lens flare colour would help. Making a light have a strong colour flare (without a white centre!) as you'd get from a modern day LED would be good. Also, colour controls on the anamorphic streaks perhaps?

This might not seem like an essential upgrade, but with it being a post effect, it shouldn't have much/any problems regarding interaction with other features... so maybe a quick fix?

Anyway, I'm not a programmer, so what do I know... I just thought it might be nice to see that age old feature with a few new buttons maybe. Am I alone on this?

That is all :)

Kris

p.s. I'm not sugesting this should be done if it means any major delay to the current 11.5 schedule... more if it can be done in an afternoon by one dev with a bit of spare time.

p.p.s. If anyone has any other ideas for creating better lens flares directly in the render, please do share!!!

p.p.p.s. It has just occured to me that a glow effect on a luminous polygon would go some of the way to getting the effect I am after, but not 100 percent of the way... just thought I'd edit that in.

prometheus
12-29-2012, 08:35 AM
you could try activating the light as volumetric light to, you can get some interesting streak effects when used with textures, you could try sprite mode too for faster renderings, but there might be issues with that too.

otherwise..+1 for improved lensflares.
There was a plugin long ago doing some good flare effects.

DrStrik9
12-29-2012, 09:26 AM
more if it can be done in an afternoon by one dev with a bit of spare time.

I agree LW's lens flare post effect could be greatly improved/brought up to date, but with 11.5 coming soon, I seriously doubt there's any NT dev "spare time" right now! :D

Svenart
12-30-2012, 03:46 PM
I totally agree. Would love to see the lesflares updated in one of the next lw updates.

Hail
12-31-2012, 04:45 AM
Lens flares? Does anyone still care about those in a 3d package?
There is an awesome ae plugin called optical flares which is hard to beat when it comes to lens flares.
I seriously doubt anyone still uses lens flares in any 3d package, that probably could be why lw lens flares have not been apdated all this while.

netstile123
01-01-2013, 03:09 PM
for some reason lens flares that at one time were left out and as of the past few years are a big hit. I just watched looper last night with multiple flare effects. Other films that pop to mind is super 8 and star treks new film.

Tobian
01-01-2013, 04:32 PM
I think it's still relevant and I think there's still a lot to be done with it. Optical flares is only really a point tracker: It doesn't handle HDR images properly, or perform convolutions based on the luminosity, just a fancier version of the Knoll lens flare plugins, which is just a fancier version of the same thing LW does. I'd like a Fraunhoffer diffraction filter tied in to some real-world camera values, and less of the 90's style basic flares.

tcoursey
01-02-2013, 02:32 PM
Lens flares? Does anyone still care about those in a 3d package?
There is an awesome ae plugin called optical flares which is hard to beat when it comes to lens flares.
I seriously doubt anyone still uses lens flares in any 3d package, that probably could be why lw lens flares have not been apdated all this while.

+1 on the flare upgrades. And yes Hail, people still use lens flares in 3D packages. We use them quite a bit to add a more realistic affect to all our architectural lights. Yes plugins in AFX and other even more professional packages are much more adept at lens flares, but they are used in 3D as well.

While they are at it, I've submitted a bug about the post process of lens flares not showing up in the correct place with the advanced camera. We use the advanced camera FOV set to 90 degrees to render out 6 sided panoramic images for virtual tours. Those lens flares have to be added by Photoshop after the fact. bummer.

prometheus
01-02-2013, 03:12 PM
well certain tasks for lensflares such as stars, and stars behind planets I believe is better to deal with in Lightwave straight ahed than in after effects post processing

One thing they should improve on which I mentioned before, while tweaking in vpr, (thatīs what itīs for)

Lensflares glow behind or fade behind object doesnīt render the same in vpr as in final, I believe it is the vpr that needs to be improved to match how it should look in final renders.

Might post a sample of the issue when Im done with other renders.

Michael

Tobian
01-02-2013, 03:25 PM
Well lensflares which are generated entirely based on pixel brightness in the HDR colourspace simply don't have this issue. It's just pixels as rendered, not relying on complex z-sorting issues.

Kaptive
01-02-2013, 04:19 PM
Ello,

Sorry been away for a few days over Christmas, so not had chance to reply. Glad I'm not alone here.

With regard to after effects vs 3d lens flares, irrelevant of technical implications... there is another reason. There are quite a few us out there that are one/two man production teams that work on projects with very short time scales or limited budgets, and quite honestly, the time spent sorting out lens flares in another piece of software is time wasted if they are merely there to serve a purpose. Though I'd love everything I produce to have that ultimate polish on it, sometimes you just can't and have to go with doing the best you can in the time given.

So on that front alone, they are very useful.

Pretty much all of the other points made above supporting improvement to this feature I agree with completely.

Actually, I'm suprised that some kind of lens flare plugin/image filter has never been made that creates custom lensflares attached to a named null or something... or even a node for the node image filter so it can use the depth info etc. I'm sure that would open up some interesting possibilities... but maybe that's just me. I always curse myself at times like this, because I wish I had the knowledge to code one myself. Perhaps I should learn Python in 2013!... In fact, what do you need to know (language) to create a custom node for lightwave?? I'm thinking that perhaps, this might be a challenge too far! :)

jeric_synergy
01-02-2013, 06:02 PM
?? I'd think lens flares in a 3d package would be far preferable than compositing solutions, since you get occlusion automatically. THAT'S a time saving. Assuming they looked good.

11.5 is locked, no doubt. What I'd like to see is a more healthy plugin ecosystem for LW, so we could get that functionality ( SuperGLOW, VertiLectric ) that we've lost over the years.

We could even have an auction where

a plugin was characterized,
everybody throws in what money they want, and
the first programmer to meet all the specs gets the money.

magoo
01-02-2013, 06:17 PM
While it'd be great to update LW's lense flares, with relatively cheap products like Video Copilot Optical Flares: https://www.videocopilot.net/products/opticalflares/ that focus on that task I wonder if updating lense flares would be value for Newtek's money.

jeric_synergy
01-02-2013, 06:40 PM
While it'd be great to update LW's lense flares, with relatively cheap products like Video Copilot Optical Flares: https://www.videocopilot.net/products/opticalflares/ that focus on that task I wonder if updating lense flares would be value for Newtek's money.
If they can be occluded automatically, I agree that NewTek's efforts are best spent elsewhere.

prometheus
01-04-2013, 05:19 PM
I just found out or remembered...lens flares do not follow distant lightīs rotation, this is bad when trying to acheive sunflare effects around the sun (like in vue).
for instance I have some volumetric studies going on now, using dp sunsky and volumetric light, those to follow eachother but lensflares stays in the middle origin based on position not rotation.

I checked changing color space options, but the output render is not corrected in anyway, lensflare fade,glow behind objects doesnīt not act the same when you are comparing VPR against lighwave final render.

I prefer getting lensflares fixed so it can use distant light properly for scenes with sunīs, and also try and match vpr to Lightwave final render before adding some extra effects.

Michael

jeric_synergy
01-04-2013, 05:45 PM
If you mean the "star filter" thing, this is accurate because of course this is dependent upon the lens, not the light.

The more I think about this (w/my hyperannoying roommate whining in the background) the more I realize I don't know what you mean.

prometheus
01-04-2013, 06:16 PM
If you mean the "star filter" thing, this is accurate because of course this is dependent upon the lens, not the light.

The more I think about this (w/my hyperannoying roommate whining in the background) the more I realize I don't know what you mean.

No star filter is a different thing though that is included and should be used for a good sun, I mean the whole lensflare from the light.( not talkin lens reflections either)

if you use a point light ..you can not rote a point light, you can only move it to its position and where lensflare is shown.
if you use a distant light, place the light in center origin, and rotate it with volumetrics or sunsky procedural with it connected to the distant light as source, then you have a sunlight with a sundisc that shows in the sky, and all follows rotation heading and pitch, but activating lensflare gives you a lensflare only static in the same origin as the light is placed.
That isnīt how it should behave. it only takes in account the position of where the light item is placed, rotation values with distant light is what stears where the sun is, not position of where you placed that light in the scene.

Image 001 shows distant volumetric light, in combination with dpont sky procedural that creates the sky and sundisk,
image 003 shows same distant light without volumetric but activated lens flare that just sits in the origin not respecting distant light rotation values.
the sun is located above the tree to the left, not in the center of the image where the lensflare is.

maybe Im aproaching sunlight the wrong way, perhaps using point light with added sunspot modifier, but I am not certain if that will be correct anyway.
point light volumetrics vs distant light volumetrics differs..

Most of all I would like to see a true volumetric engine thou, with true sunlight...Like vue.
ozone isnīt really an option though, to many issues and it canīt deliver proper volumetric behavior with lightwave objects as I know of.

Michael

shrox
01-04-2013, 06:25 PM
Lens flares? Does anyone still care about those in a 3d package?
There is an awesome ae plugin called optical flares which is hard to beat when it comes to lens flares.
I seriously doubt anyone still uses lens flares in any 3d package, that probably could be why lw lens flares have not been apdated all this while.

Speak for yourself, not everyone has AfterEffects....

jeric_synergy
01-04-2013, 06:38 PM
Well, I guess the test would be to move the Distant Light around, which maybe I will when I get back from the dance.

Shrox: plus not everyone has shelled out for the fancy schmancy lens flare packages.

shrox
01-04-2013, 07:22 PM
Well, I guess the test would be to move the Distant Light around, which maybe I will when I get back from the dance.

Shrox: plus not everyone has shelled out for the fancy schmancy lens flare packages.

Yeah, I used to have only an Etch-A-Sketch to do 3D stuff and lens flares with.

prometheus
01-04-2013, 07:31 PM
Speak for yourself, not everyone has AfterEffects....

yes...but more important..

Under certain tasks, using lightwave directly is more proefficient for setting up lens flares, stars, star behind objects etc, and no tracking of the light source or switching between packages is needed.

and for example ..vueīs lensflares for the sun is very nice with itīs progressive settings and fading, so you can get a nice control of how much the flare is shining through behind trees or behind objects or how much of the sunflare will be seen behind clouds, as far as I know..that would be quite difficult to handle in post processing outside of the scene context..I just whish Lightwave flares could behave such as vueīs.



Well, I guess the test would be to move the Distant Light around, which maybe I will when I get back from the dance.


Shrox: plus not everyone has shelled out for the fancy schmancy lens flare packages.

Jeric...you will come to the same conclusion as I ..Im most certain about that.



Michael

shrox
01-04-2013, 07:36 PM
Using multiple lights just for lens flares is a work around for some effects as well.

dwburman
01-04-2013, 07:48 PM
Like shrox says, you could set up 2 distant lights parent the flare light to the sun light and move it way back on the z axis until it looks like it matches the sun disc position in the sky. Turn off effects spec, diffuse, and radiosity for that light and turn on lens flares. Now when you rotate the sun light (also linked to sunsky) the flare light rotates with it.

Of course, workarounds can get tiring. :)

KevinL
01-04-2013, 08:03 PM
In this day and age, lens flares in post work wonderfully.
HDR (32-bit)
Luminance, null to light, occlusion layers, masking, z pass...

Multi-Pass rendering, why? To avoid baking things into a long render, where a minor change requires rendering out an entire full frame render again...
no thank you. So why do I want bake a lens flare into my frame?

How many feature films bake the flares into the 3D renders?

LW Lens flare is the last thing on my development wish list.

"just my tenth of a cent" :)
Kevin

prometheus
01-04-2013, 08:17 PM
Like shrox says, you could set up 2 distant lights parent the flare light to the sun light and move it way back on the z axis until it looks like it matches the sun disc position in the sky. Turn off effects spec, diffuse, and radiosity for that light and turn on lens flares. Now when you rotate the sun light (also linked to sunsky) the flare light rotates with it.

Of course, workarounds can get tiring. :)

indeed...I rather not work that way, In fact..I rather just bring in the x-frog trees in to vue...once I can afford latest versions, and have the sun and flares moving correctly....then again I will miss Lightwave goodies.

I got some upcoming volumetric studies(see contact sheet images) I will start a thread on soon I think, dealing with volumetric atmosphere, godrays, godrays from turbulenceFD fluid clouds, and volumetric light in combo with hypervoxels etc, so I will share some findings of what I discover ..for better or worse:)

I do miss a good proper atmospheric engine which behaves though...volumetric lights, voxels and alik, is very much too much of manual setup in order to get the most of renders and most realism unfortunatly.

Michael

shrox
01-04-2013, 08:21 PM
In this day and age, lens flares in post work wonderfully.
HDR (32-bit)
Luminance, null to light, occlusion layers, masking, z pass...

Multi-Pass rendering, why? To avoid baking things into a long render, where a minor change requires rendering out an entire full frame render again...
no thank you. So why do I want bake a lens flare into my frame?

How many feature films bake the flares into the 3D renders?

LW Lens flare is the last thing on my development wish list.

"just my tenth of a cent" :)
Kevin

Again, not everyone has post software...unless you care to donate.

prometheus
01-04-2013, 08:25 PM
Kevin L...
Lightwave is one paint tool, and tweaking lensflares like stars and positions and getting instant feedback over multi lights and how it looks, together with how the light itself interacts with planets.

that is quite an immidiate respons you get inside of the package without switching to another one and work there..oops not satisfied got to lightwave and render another one..with lights at a new place..switch to after effects
put lensflares on..and not satisfied o well...you see?

It is the interaction between the direct input and vpr render together with the lights themself that matters alot, not just a sweet lensflare in post.
interactivity with instant result as a one stroke result that letīs you be more artistic when 3d painting your canvas.

prometheus
01-04-2013, 09:47 PM
I might have to reconsider using point lights instead as the best default sunsystem mode with volumetrics perhaps, I switched to point light instead, and set itīs origin to 0,0,0 added sunspot modifier to the point light, I do not like to use those settings though since I find it hard to understand how to best get the sun positioned where I want it to be, much easier in vue with pitch etc.

Anyway, since I switched from distant light to point light, I have to set the volumetrics completly different and it was harder to get those sunbeams affecting trees, had to up density to 300 and reduce other settings.

The Lensflare will now follow the pointlight when I change the sunspot modifier settings such as time or longitud, latitude.

you can see some of the settings in the two images...one has a very huge bright sun flare, and the other has distance fade activated..which is controlled by the nominal distance slider..the highter distance, the more the flare fades/becomes smaller.

I still have to tweak the flare much more to get more realistic sun appearance, would like to have air anisotrophy scattering that could
disperse the sundisc glow more realistic..(as in vue)
I could try simulating that with inverse distance mode perhaps.

Maybe I could use distant light to and get the lensflare follow correctly by adding the sunspot modifier, havenīt tested that.

Yawn..I really hate volumetrics and love them, beautiful to the point that you tweak all night long and takes time to render, so up til this point the clock is 6 early in the morning, and Im going to bed when I should go up to see the real thing( mostly cloud and snow anyway)
got to stop for today and hit the sack...then up to see the junior hockey world championship..swedes against americans..how exciting:)

Will be back with more volumetric studies in another thread soon.
Michael

shrox
01-04-2013, 10:36 PM
I might have to reconsider using point lights instead as the best default sunsystem mode with volumetrics perhaps, I switched to point light instead, and set itīs origin to 0,0,0 added sunspot modifier to the point light, I do not like to use those settings though since I find it hard to understand how to best get the sun positioned where I want it to be, much easier in vue with pitch etc.

Anyway, since I switched from distant light to point light, I have to set the volumetrics completly different and it was harder to get those sunbeams affecting trees, had to up density to 300 and reduce other settings.

The Lensflare will now follow the pointlight when I change the sunspot modifier settings such as time or longitud, latitude.

you can see some of the settings in the two images...one has a very huge bright sun flare, and the other has distance fade activated..which is controlled by the nominal distance slider..the highter distance, the more the flare fades/becomes smaller.

I still have to tweak the flare much more to get more realistic sun appearance, would like to have air anisotrophy scattering that could
disperse the sundisc glow more realistic..(as in vue)
I could try simulating that with inverse distance mode perhaps.

Maybe I could use distant light to and get the lensflare follow correctly by adding the sunspot modifier, havenīt tested that.

Yawn..I really hate volumetrics and love them, beautiful to the point that you tweak all night long and takes time to render, so up til this point the clock is 6 early in the morning, and Im going to bed when I should go up to see the real thing( mostly cloud and snow anyway)
got to stop for today and hit the sack...then up to see the junior hockey world championship..swedes against americans..how exciting:)

Will be back with more volumetric studies in another thread soon.
Michael

I like Dennis' light set, have you tried those?

AbstractTech3D
01-05-2013, 12:30 AM
I absolutely agree that extending LW's current lens flare capabilities would be valuable. (At least, for my ongoing purposes - very valuable indeed).

VC Optical Flares is generally really pretty cool. And really nice results can be achieved. (Using VC Optical Flares has really opened my eyes to the production value that lens flares can add).

But there really are limitations with VC Optical Flares, and the multi-app work flow, already discussed here.

Also, licensing for rendering across multiple machines is very much cheaper with LW!.

I had pondered, a while ago, how with geometry and nodal IFW2 textures how such lens flares might be simulated. And pondered if the community might be interested in developing a library of such solutions. But there would be limitations as to how far that could be taken.

NT or third-party developers… I do request some really excellent, versatile LW lens flares, please! (Please be inspired by VC Optical Flares… and go further!)

jwiede
01-05-2013, 02:49 AM
Frankly, if I see that 12 still lacks any meaningful evidence of substantial infrastructure rework, but offers improved lens flares, I still will not be purchasing the upgrade. Likewise, if 12 has what I consider evidence of substantial infrastructure rework, the lack of improved lens flares will have zero impact on my purchase decision. *shrug*

djwaterman
01-05-2013, 03:40 AM
Agreed, wasted development time when things like that are better added in post. A job for third party plugin developers but not LWG who have other things to work on.

shrox
01-05-2013, 10:28 AM
If lens flare improvement is so offensive you would leave...well. OK. See ya.

Kaptive
01-05-2013, 11:17 AM
I started this thread with the idea that perhaps some small changes could be made to the current lens flare options. A few more buttons to allow us to control colour etc.

I was never suggesting it should be a complete rebuild, as the lens flares aren't that bad as they are. However, they could be much more useful with a couple of tweaks... tweaks that I imagine wouldn't take a programmer too much time to do.

Some of the reactions in here against it I find bizarre. I fully accept and agree that doing them in post is probably the ideal situation, but it isn't always practical especially when you are on a tight schedule. I'm suprised that this isn't something that seems to be accepted, to the point of looking down and frowning on such notions. Bizarre.

I said in the OP that I didn't want it to detract from more important work... but what? Should it be ignored now forever?

I see no problem with (as I originally suggested) a small amount of time being put into a quick update to give slightly more control over them. This isn't something that is going to have any major impact on any release, and if you think it will, and it means that much to you... well I roll my eyes.

As a user of lightwave for nearly 13 years, I still find much use for LW lens flares. They are a tool in the bag that just need a sharpen, and it is a tool I use when I'm on a tight schedule. Not everyone does the same kind of work, or works in the same way. Different people have different requirements, personally I accept that, but clearly not everyone does.

There are a whole tonne of features I barely even touch in Lightwave on a regular basis... does that mean that they shouldn't be developed either??? No, of course not. Why is the simple lens flare any different?

This tool is still useful... BUT if it isn't to you, then might I suggest that you merely just have a different work type and flow? That your priorities are merely different?

Kris

dsol
01-05-2013, 01:20 PM
I think it's still relevant and I think there's still a lot to be done with it. Optical flares is only really a point tracker: It doesn't handle HDR images properly, or perform convolutions based on the luminosity, just a fancier version of the Knoll lens flare plugins, which is just a fancier version of the same thing LW does. I'd like a Fraunhoffer diffraction filter tied in to some real-world camera values, and less of the 90's style basic flares.

If this means mathematically simulating the light blooming and diffraction effects that commonly happen when filming the real world, then yes - that would be amazing. Of course, if it's possible to do this post-render using 32bit HDR, then that would be even better. I know that Andrew Kramer has Optical Flares 2 in development, so maybe that's going to be the big main new feature!

jeric_synergy
01-05-2013, 01:48 PM
Aren't post lens flares always going to require a fair bit of operator intervention? Anytime the light motion gets changed?

shrox
01-05-2013, 01:53 PM
Unless you think like me, you are wrong. Unless I am wrong, then it's your fault.

Tobian
01-05-2013, 02:40 PM
There's 2 layers of effects (technically more) when it comes to lens flares.

You have fraunhofer diffraction, which causes the 'bloom' and 'glare' effects because of diffraction interference patterns through the lens. About the best description I have seen on this is the Fryrender manual http://www.randomcontrol.com/fryrender-documents page 98-99, showing how you need an iris image to convolve the image, spectrally, to get a correct 'flare' from luminous objects. I can't simulate this realistically enough, so I can't get flare elements as pretty as they could be. Close but no cigar, and optical flares can't deal with this because it just paints effects over the image, using point-tracking,not convolving them, properly.

The secondary effect is caused by internal lens caustic effects. Light bouncing off multiple lens elements, which due to lens coatings, give you coloured abberations, and due to diffraction, give you shaped elements. There's an awesome paper on this from Siggraph http://vimeo.com/28676140 detailing how they made a very-close-to-real simulation, however this just tracks a simple disk simulation, not an image convolution, which would be slower, but more accurate again.

I have no idea what Andrew Kramer is doing for optical flares, but I doubt it will be this. You never know, but I doubt it :)

That kind of feature would be really nice, as a lens shader, as I said, tied in properly to the camera properties. Likewise shaped and textured irises, or non-square effects would be cool, so you can get effects like you get with anamorphic films. I actually think physically based lens shaders, exposure tools, and tonemapping are important aspects of 3D which you can't just rely on post to do.

Of course structural changes to the nature of LW are important, but so is shader and rendering performance, and things like tonemapping and lens difffraction shaders are becoming commonplace in most renderers, and LW's bloom' and 'lens flares' are artefacts of 90s technology that was never updated, and look laughably outdated now.

shrox
01-05-2013, 02:54 PM
There is a image map associated with flares, one time something totally fraked up and I realized the texture on my object was the effects we see in lens flares. I was hoping to find it and mess with it, but no joy...

Cryonic
01-06-2013, 12:10 AM
If lens flare improvement is so offensive you would leave...well. OK. See ya.

Interesting... It wasn't the improved lens flare that would make him not upgrade, it was the lack of an improvement to the workflow...

jeric_synergy
01-06-2013, 04:05 PM
Maybe I'm absolutely out of it when it comes to workflow, but again:

If the 3D app isn't creating the flare, doesn't it require an operator to manually simulate occlusion?

jwiede
01-06-2013, 04:57 PM
Maybe I'm absolutely out of it when it comes to workflow, but again:

If the 3D app isn't creating the flare, doesn't it require an operator to manually simulate occlusion?
Even if a 3D app IS creating the flare, it still often requires the operator to manually determine/provide occlusion mappings. Because of that, it frequently requires a similar effort inside the 3D app as it would require adding them in post, at which point the additional benefits of doing it in post tend to swing the balance.

jwiede
01-06-2013, 05:17 PM
Interesting... It wasn't the improved lens flare that would make him not upgrade, it was the lack of an improvement to the workflow...
Thanks, I'm glad someone actually read my post.

jeric_synergy
01-06-2013, 05:35 PM
Even if a 3D app IS creating the flare, it still often requires the operator to manually determine/provide occlusion mappings.
Whoa. I guess I AM out of it, since I've never encountered the phrase "occlusion mappings" before. :stumped: :cry:

shrox
01-06-2013, 05:53 PM
Thanks, I'm glad someone actually read my post.

Workflow is OK for me I guess, I just don't want to see lens flares ignored anymore. Workflow is much more of a personal, or departmental concern than an actual tool in the box.

(Believe me, I understand workflow... been in the art director seat)

dsol
01-06-2013, 06:41 PM
The secondary effect is caused by internal lens caustic effects. Light bouncing off multiple lens elements, which due to lens coatings, give you coloured abberations, and due to diffraction, give you shaped elements. There's an awesome paper on this from Siggraph http://vimeo.com/28676140 detailing how they made a very-close-to-real simulation, however this just tracks a simple disk simulation, not an image convolution, which would be slower, but more accurate again.

Thanks for sharing that - my mind was blown watching that siggraph video. Now THIS is a killer feature for 3D software - though it can of course be implemented in post nicely if you supply it HDR sources.

AbstractTech3D
01-31-2013, 11:54 AM
My personal humble request for future releases… lens flares on uber-ultra-mega nucear-charged steroids, please!

prometheus
02-01-2013, 01:14 AM
I just want it to work better with VPR, that is similar to final render, and that related to glow behind object and fade behind object, glow behind object doesnīt work
in vpr, fade does, but fade behind object in vpr and final render has no other control, that is some sort of progressive value control, you have fade in distance with nominal
control but I think it needs progressive fade behind object, sort of what vue has for itīs sunflares.
it doesnīt look right when you move the light with a sunflare behind an object and use fade behind object, it can cut off the flare to fast and thus not shining behind the object properly.

I recently got some nice sunflares together with sk_sun plugin from dpont, but there you need to add an extra motion modifier to have the flare following the sun, this
should be worked on to work directly once activated with the sk_sun if possible, not sure who needs to develop that, newtek or dpont?

Michael

shrox
02-01-2013, 01:16 AM
I just want it to work better with VPR, that is similar to final render, and that related to glow behind object and fade behind object, glow behind object doesnīt work
in vpr, fade does, but fade behind object in vpr and final render has no other control, that is some sort of progressive value control, you have fade in distance with nominal
control but I think it needs progressive fade behind object, sort of what vue has for itīs sunflares.
it doesnīt look right when you move the light with a sunflare behind an object and use fade behind object, it can cut off the flare to fast and thus not shining behind the object properly.

I recently got some nice sunflares together with sk_sun plugin from dpont, but there you need to add an extra motion modifier to have the flare following the sun, this
should be worked on to work directly once activated with the sk_sun if possible, not sure who needs to develop that, newtek or dpont?

Michael

Yes, I have combined them too.

prometheus
02-01-2013, 01:59 AM
Yes, I have combined them too.

I might post some image samples over some of the issues, suggestions on what could be improved etc.

another thing that I would like to see , but off topic from lensflares, that would be volumetric light option to sk_sun..since you canīt acess that, you have to fake with another distant light, or point light and do the best to match both position/angle and distance etc, It is very hard to get a natural volumetric light and shadow casting with such fake aproach.

Im taking reference from Vue and itīs sun,sunflare, and volumetrics which feels quite as it should.

Now..I Got to install my newly downloaded LW 11.5...sweet.

Michael

inkpen3d
02-16-2013, 07:36 AM
Does anyone know how to obtain the correct lens flare for a linear type light (either native LW linear or DP Tube lights)? The problem that I currently have is that the lens flare ALWAYS renders as a point source whereas the flare intensity for the linear and DP Tube lights should in theory be distributed along the whole length of the light source!

Thanks in advance.

Peter

Tobian
02-16-2013, 09:08 AM
Sadly, I do all my flares in post, so it's the only way I know how to do them. It's also the other problem with 'point tracker' lens flare generators, they only really handle 'point' sources properly. It's where you need to convolve a copy of your image, smearing it in several directions, then overlaying it in your image in post.

Some users have got nice results out of the DP bloom filter, http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/nodes/DP_Filter.html#DPFilter , though it's tricky to make it work right.

inkpen3d
02-16-2013, 10:02 AM
Sadly, I do all my flares in post, so it's the only way I know how to do them. It's also the other problem with 'point tracker' lens flare generators, they only really handle 'point' sources properly. It's where you need to convolve a copy of your image, smearing it in several directions, then overlaying it in your image in post.

Some users have got nice results out of the DP bloom filter, http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/nodes/DP_Filter.html#DPFilter , though it's tricky to make it work right.

Thanks for your suggestion Tobian. Much appreciated.

dwburman
02-16-2013, 11:07 AM
You could try stringing together a bunch of point lights that are turned off except for their lensflare, but doing it in post with a lens flare plugin in AE or something else would probably be easier if that is an option for you.

bazsa73
02-16-2013, 11:26 AM
If I could be a superhero I would like to be LENSFLAREMAN!
111615

dsol
02-16-2013, 06:01 PM
Does anyone know how to obtain the correct lens flare for a linear type light (either native LW linear or DP Tube lights)? The problem that I currently have is that the lens flare ALWAYS renders as a point source whereas the flare intensity for the linear and DP Tube lights should in theory be distributed along the whole length of the light source!

As others have said, LW lenseflares are point-based 2D effects - if you want something like that, it'll probably require a more advanced "true" lense flare reflection simulation like that siggraph demo. Even then, it'd be a lot better to do that afterwards in a comping package like After Effects or Nuke.

shrox
02-16-2013, 06:27 PM
As others have said, LW lenseflares are point-based 2D effects - if you want something like that, it'll probably require a more advanced "true" lense flare reflection simulation like that siggraph demo. Even then, it'd be a lot better to do that afterwards in a comping package like After Effects or Nuke.

Many of us don't have access to AE or Nuke...

dsol
02-16-2013, 06:41 PM
Many of us don't have access to AE or Nuke...

There's plenty of cheap/free alternates.

http://lesterbanks.com/2011/02/synapse-open-source-node-based-compositor/
http://www.openmovieeditor.org/nodefilters.html
http://www.blender.org/education-help/tutorials/compositing/

shrox
02-16-2013, 08:03 PM
There's plenty of cheap/free alternates.

http://lesterbanks.com/2011/02/synapse-open-source-node-based-compositor/
http://www.openmovieeditor.org/nodefilters.html
http://www.blender.org/education-help/tutorials/compositing/

I do have Premiere CS4.

inkpen3d
02-17-2013, 04:21 AM
Thanks guys for your various suggestions and advice - the only way I'd found of getting anything close to the desired effect was placing several point lights along the edge and modulating their lens-flares (as per Dana's suggestion). FYI, I'm trying to get flashes of light along the (30) edges of a dodecahedron-shaped object, the flashes happen on each edge at different times, so doing this in post looks to be a bit of a nightmare (or at least way beyond my current skill-level with Fusion 6)!

Cheers,
Peter

Golden Spindle
05-04-2013, 01:58 AM
I would definitely use After Effects for the lens flare. Much much more realistic I've come to realize.

dsol
05-04-2013, 03:52 AM
The undisputed king of LenseFlare plugins right now is still Video Copilot's OPTICAL FLARES. I use this plugin all the time!
https://www.videocopilot.net/products/opticalflares/