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View Full Version : Interesting "Prometheus" look & technique for greeble



Rayek
11-29-2012, 12:54 PM
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?273033-Sculpting-with-UVs-and-displacements

General technique could be useful.

probiner
11-29-2012, 03:43 PM
michalis is a crafty person, ehehe.
Got to love UV shells.
I'm more impressed with the renders quality (I haven't followed cycles much) and what I already knew about Blender's Viewport performance with heavy meshes. I have opened in it things with 15 million polys that I couldn't open in Modeler.

Cheers

Netvudu
11-29-2012, 04:34 PM
Hey, itīs a very nice technique Rayek, thanks for posting this! How would one go about doing what they call "Resetting UVs" but in Lightwave? It looks like some sort of island aligning....

probiner
11-29-2012, 04:44 PM
Netvudu, think of Zbrush tiles. All squares. But here, in chunks instead of all separated polygons, so some of them will give a sense of continuity to the mapping.
This will cause distortions, as you can see. Rectangles would be a bit better, but still with distortion.

Blender UV Packing is lightning fast. Although I like PLG a lot I have given up of packing Shells maps with it for dense geometries. Takes long long time. While Blender is probably not so good, but "click-done". It's Lightmap Script is also nice (third in this image (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/UVMaps-Comparison.png))
Cheers

Kaptive
11-29-2012, 08:04 PM
Well I've just had a quick go at this using a comparable method... not 100% with regard the UVs. For a quick play around, I just used LWs atlas type, and then stretched the various panels about on the UV grid so it used different sections for each bit.

Anyway, moderate success, though I still think I could make this work much better with more playing. Great effect though! Excellent find Rayek :) Good fun!

Kris

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egearbox
11-29-2012, 09:14 PM
That's an awesome tutorial but between my ignorance of Blender and my newbie-ness in Lightwave I can't really get a grip on what's going on - can someone take pity on me and give a quick translation of the Blender tutorial into "Lightwave-speak"? In particular the part about "baking displacement" - how does THAT work in LW?:help:

Kaptive
11-30-2012, 12:48 AM
Well if I've got it right, and there is no guarentee that I have :)

In Lightwave, if you make a panel (like the one he shows in the tute), then... well here is what I did...

1. Made a panel
2. Sent it to lightwave layout
3. Placed the camera on 0,0,0 on the xyz
4. Rotate Camera on the pitch to 90 degrees so it is facing straight down.
5. Move the camera really high up, so all perspective on the panel has gone
6. Set the camera to a square resolution 1000 x 1000 or some thing like that, bigger/smaller
7. Go to the image processing tab
8. In the image filter dropdown at the bottom, select "compositing buffer export"
9. Double click it, and then select "depth"
10. Turn on image viewer, if it isn't already on in render globals/general tab
11. Set your cameras antialias settings... 4/8 (with adaptive sampling)... or whatever you prefer
12. Hit F9, and get that rendering
13. Once it is done, you'll see a render of the panel from the camera view. Now in the top right corner of the image viewer window, click on layer, and select the one with the word "depth" in it.
14. You will now see your depth render, black being high, white being low (or closer/further away from the camera)
15. Save the depth image as LW_OpenEXR_RGBFP(.exr) ...well that's the one I've been using anyway, I'm unsure at this moment which is the right one to use, but that one works ok.

16. Now make an object that is very simple, a very simple low poly cubic shape, and then nurb it (tab)
17. At the moment, I've just been playing around with Atlas UV mapping as a quick solution, but am yet to try alternative methods that are a closer match for what is being done in the blender tute.
18. For what I did above, I stretched the various polygons to fit the UV grid (very roughly)... at this point, I think I am going off track with the blender concept... I'm still working on it.
19. In Layout, load up your object, and apply the .exr image map as a displacement map on the object (ideally in the node editor).
20. You'll need to increase the sub divisions in the object properties to 5-6 or 7 to get clean results.
21. For a bit of a better finish, if you have DPs nodes installed, then the ambient occlusion in the texture helps enhance it quite a bit.
22. You'll have to mess about with the strength settings of the displacement to get the right finish... when you first apply it, the object will fly off into the distance... some weird thing with the displacement... so you'll have to go looking for it. (Anyone got any fix for that??? Not really sure why it does that!)

Hmmm, I don't know if the above is useful or not, but it is the process I went through. I've only spent a couple of hours on it, so I might be way off base on some of it. Hopefully others will pipe in with other approaches and ideas. I don't play with displacement very often beyond landscapes, so I might be missing some big points.

Another thing to note, is that what I did above isn't really the full point of the technique that I think is being applied in Blender... I have merely gone for trying to recreate the Giger ship look from Alien/Prometheus using the same basic principles. I don't know Blender anywhere near enough to get fully the reasoning behind it to be honest!

Anyways, hope at least some of that helps! As I say, I'm still trying to translate it myself. Part way there.

Kris

Kaptive
11-30-2012, 03:18 AM
Ok, so just playing some more. I think it is vital to use Blender to create the UVs as shown in the tutorial. Took a while to work out, as I'm really unfamiliar with Blender, but got there. Once you've reset them, and got the square UVs (one for each poly), then you can export an obj, and bring it back into Lightwave to continue.

tyrot
11-30-2012, 08:37 AM
Kaptive please make a video tutorial - please!
awesome results!

bazsa73
11-30-2012, 12:23 PM
109530
I wanted to use that tool, Spread UVs but in the end I used PLG and then manually straightened out the coordinates which
was somewhat painful. For the panel I used a zbrush alpha.

Kaptive
11-30-2012, 01:01 PM
I'm working on solving it out. My first test (compared to where I am now) is a bit "meh"... So I want to get it right, and work it out properly before I pass it on. I'm making big strides, so hopefully soon(ish)!

I'm getting some great results, I'll post some when I'm feeling happy with them.

Kaptive
11-30-2012, 01:08 PM
Kaptive please make a video tutorial - please!
awesome results!

Lookin good bazsa... though, saying Blender is free, I'd recommend using it for the UV task. Once you've done it a couple of times, it becomes a bit easier. 5 minutes maximum, in and out. Just export your model from Lightwave as an obj when you have finished modeling it, import it into blender. Click on unwrap UV button, then the second option down. Then... click the same button again, and select "reset" down at the bottom. Then go to "file" at the top, and export again as an obj.
You can then load it back into Lightwave and close blender, with the UVs as required.

Well, I think that is the process more or less. I'll cover it in my tute when I make it... but it should be enough to give you a pointer, as it'll save you a lot of time messing about with UVs in lightwave. The fun part is the displacement, and UVs are just dull. So the quicker you can get that part out the way, the more fun will be had :D

bazsa73
11-30-2012, 01:50 PM
good idea, I just installed Blender today one more time, I think being familiar with blender is not a bad thing since it does so many cool things. (If its logic was slightly easier...)

jeric_synergy
11-30-2012, 02:09 PM
Is the (UI) logic of Blender actually difficult, or are we all too-LW centric to switch over easily??? I can't tell. 8~

If I grit my teeth hard enough long enough I start to get reasonably fast in Blender, but I can never stick with it since to me LW is so ingrained. :(

Now, C4D seems VERY logical.

bazsa73
11-30-2012, 02:23 PM
It is difficult for us I guess. But there is something strange in Blender also, that unexplainable thing which makes it so blenderish. Alien tech :)

jeric_synergy
11-30-2012, 03:05 PM
It is difficult for us I guess. But there is something strange in Blender also, that unexplainable thing which makes it so blenderish. Alien tech :)
I hear ya, brother. :beerchug:

Kaptive
11-30-2012, 04:00 PM
Is the (UI) logic of Blender actually difficult, or are we all too-LW centric to switch over easily??? I can't tell. 8~

If I grit my teeth hard enough long enough I start to get reasonably fast in Blender, but I can never stick with it since to me LW is so ingrained. :(

Now, C4D seems VERY logical.

I struggle with all apps that have modeling and animation in the same apps lol.. so I guess I'm pretty screwed lol.... lightwave or bust!

egearbox
11-30-2012, 10:16 PM
I followed Kaptive's excellent directions as best I could.

Here's the panel I came up with, The node map I used to apply it, and the final result on one face of my nurbed cube (no longer looking very cubelike.) I had to set the subdivision to 1 pixel per polygon to get it to look this smooth - I can see this technique producing some large render times.

Am I on the right track? any feedback?

109539109540109541

Kaptive
12-01-2012, 01:27 AM
Good stuff egear, that is pretty much it... then you can push it as far as you want to go with it.

I've been really inspired by all this, and I wanted to make something straight from Gigers brain... so here we are... First one is raw out of lightwave, and the second is with a spot of post (a vignette, a spot of chromatic abberation, and a slight adjustment of the levels... makes it pop)

109542
109543

There is still more I want to do. A few other things I want to try adopting the same basic principles to yet... so this isn't quite finished.

Just to note, the above used the basic UV principle, but I hand drew the panel map in photoshop. Although the depth map technique is interesting, it can be a bit time consuming... and personally, I prefer to get down and dirty in photoshop when I can for textures. For the "vines", I used Ivy Generator (what an awesome program.. first time I've tried it). Oh yeah, I used DPs DOF for the depth of field.

I'm just rendering out a short animation of it, a couple of simple camera passes, so I'll post that up when it's done. Anyways, cool technique and lots of fun... As a massive Giger fan... I'm well pleased with the results so far.

Kris

bazsa73
12-01-2012, 03:18 AM
Holy shizzle mann! That is supercool, just a slight sick tone in the colors. Isn't it so that the outcome of the effects depends mostly on the quality and look of the panel? Because if the panel in itself is not enough interesting, later the big picture will suffer of it too. That's my 2 cents.

safetyman
12-01-2012, 05:51 AM
It is difficult for us I guess. But there is something strange in Blender also, that unexplainable thing which makes it so blenderish. Alien tech :)

Yes, it does take some getting used to, that's for sure. But I've been using it for a while now and I really enjoy it. It won't replace LW (yet), but with 4-5 updates a year, Blender is becoming a terrific program, as evidenced by the technique in this thread.

jeric_synergy
12-01-2012, 10:55 AM
I've been really inspired by all this, and I wanted to make something straight from Gigers brain... so here we are... First one is raw out of lightwave, and the second is with a spot of post (a vignette, a spot of chromatic abberation, and a slight adjustment of the levels... makes it pop)
Awesome stuff Kaptive... some cello and taiko drums, a slow push... ;)