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View Full Version : Liberty3d Training release! World Machine Foundations – Creating amazing terrains!



prometheus
11-29-2012, 06:34 AM
This looks interesting, worldmachine is a very neat tool for landscape and terrain creation, great to see some coverage of this, and great to see some sample of the tutorial itself.
What I canīt figure out though, does it cover export and import workflow with lightwave for instance?

Check the training release here..
http://www.liberty3d.com/2012/11/world-machine-foundations-creating-amazing-terrains/

Michael

Eagle66
11-29-2012, 12:15 PM
Has anyone create realistic (!) terrains from World Machine outside VUE or Terragen in LW? Okay, with LOTS time and Xfrog perhaps....

The 3DS Max Result looks not most convincing
http://www.webomator.com/making-displacement-mapped-terrain-with-world-machine-and-3ds-max/

prometheus
11-30-2012, 12:57 AM
That 3d max result didnīt look that good exactly, you could probably whip out something with standard native procedurals for displacement in Lightwave and some time and effort in textures/procedurals only.

I have seen some very nice results from world machine to vue, but I donīt think there are so many using world machine and lightwave together, ergo the Lightwave output from good landscape artists is very limited or non existent it seems.

If youré looking for a shot mainly depicting a landscape etc..then you would probably go with terragen or vue foremost, but I can also see that changing now when instancing has arrived to lightwave, people just need to get hold of trees, good textures
and better high poly amount/subpixel handling perhaps.
And a better sky model..prefereAly truly volumetric too, if not..people would probably choose vue for that extra realism, but depends on type of shot ofcourse.

Michael

Eagle66
11-30-2012, 10:54 AM
NO VUE, NO Terragen - Google Earth !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CLOWVYRe96o#t=70s

wjo53
11-30-2012, 12:47 PM
Geocontrol has a lot of features for terrain generation. http://www.geocontrol2.com/e_index.htm

kevman3d
11-30-2012, 11:47 PM
This looks interesting, worldmachine is a very neat tool for landscape and terrain creation, great to see some coverage of this, and great to see some sample of the tutorial itself.
What I canīt figure out though, does it cover export and import workflow with lightwave for instance?

Not in that particular training material - and that was a deliberate decision for one reason - I wanted to keep it aimed at learning World Machine without going into depth with any other 3D package in particular. As soon as you do that, you start to edge the software training towards a particular audience and I wanted anybody who was after WM training to not feel it wasn't going to go into detail about how to use their specific software package with it. World Machine produces Terrain data in the form of height maps, textures, normals, lighting maps, wear/deposition/flow maps, OBJ's and more... This is universal data to a lot of apps.

However - I do have a couple of basic videos on my Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/kevman3d) for LW/WM stuff

An older vid looks at one way to create a mesh in Modeler by loading the heightmap into a weightmap for (but layout is just as easy with deformation) : http://youtu.be/nMYif_L6RWo
Dealing with planar texture maps on displaced geometry : http://youtu.be/KQ6etP0sd2o


That is where I'm going to upload more "implementation specific" tutorials for software, including more LW oriented stuff with instancing, lighting, texturing, etc (so all is not lost :D ).


There is one small tip in case you're playing with WM right now - In terms of heightmap output, for LW make sure you use something like TIF (16-bit) and not PNG (which I always tend to use). I found PNG (16-bit) comes into LW as 8 bit - when that happens, you get that whole issue with smooth gradients becoming stepped and that doesn't look nice. TIF comes in fine, and you get nice smooth gradients.



Geocontrol has a lot of features for terrain generation. http://www.geocontrol2.com/e_index.htm

Geocontrol is pretty nice, though I only played with it a little (and that was a few years back). Actually, I talked to a local Geocontrol user last week who told me that development had apparently stopped on Geocontrol (geocontrol 2 has been available for a few years now). He also say that if they had seen WM prior, they may have considered it instead. WM is currently in an open beta for the next update, so that's a good sign.

I still think WM has the better erosion system - its pretty impressive, and there's also Thermal erosion which, while it doesn't "appear" to do much actually add's some additional realism to the terrain by creating shear cliffs with talus/screen collected at the base. Overall its pretty nice stuff.

In the end, however, the best way to see which works better for your own workflow would be to download the demo of Geocontrol, and the free version of World Machine and try them both.

prometheus
12-01-2012, 05:26 AM
[B][B]
NO VUE, NO Terragen - Google Earth !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CLOWVYRe96o#t=70s

Prometheus here on Prometheus:) Dam Ridley to steal my avatar name and make a movie out of it, blah..and i stole it from the myth, and the myth stole the fire etc..etc, nothing but thieves here:)
Great link, Ivé been searching for exactly that coverage of how they used cinema, and google earth but havenīt seen it until now, thanks for that.

You can see how important the sketches from Ridley and the concept team are here, the rest might be able to transfer to most 3d apps perhaps, when you have the assest of researched
material from angles, high res textures, height data and purchased elevation models, then you might be set good to go even in Lightwave if the system can handle the massive data.

Cinema4d looks so interesting for set extension and Landscape scenery, and with the latest Cinema4d and all its scultping functions even more so, if they manage to throw in a
decent atmosheric sky model that can rival vue or terragen + tree instancers and generators I would start to put some money aside and perhaps start working with Cinema4D really.

I think they are mentioning somewhere in that MPC -Prometheus coverage that they realized that they couldnīt get all that they wanted in there for some reasons?
Pity since there was some very nice concept art not shown in the movie, That I would like to have seen.

no vue no terragen...sure, but donīt fool yourself thinking that it would be enough using google earth, money to purchase elevation models, special cams to record lighting conditions, man power resources etc, not
a one mans job exactly, you would actually be better of attempting it with terragen or vue in such case if you own it I think, just my thoughts.


[/QUOTE]
There is one small tip in case you're playing with WM right now - In terms of heightmap output, for LW make sure you use something like TIF (16-bit) and not PNG (which I always tend to use). I found PNG (16-bit) comes into LW as 8 bit - when that happens, you get that whole issue with smooth gradients becoming stepped and that doesn't look nice. TIF comes in fine, and you get nice smooth gradients.




Geocontrol is pretty nice, though I only played with it a little (and that was a few years back). Actually, I talked to a local Geocontrol user last week who told me that development had apparently stopped on Geocontrol (geocontrol 2 has been available for a few years now). He also say that if they had seen WM prior, they may have considered it instead. WM is currently in an open beta for the next update, so that's a good sign.

I still think WM has the better erosion system - its pretty impressive, and there's also Thermal erosion which, while it doesn't "appear" to do much actually add's some additional realism to the terrain by creating shear cliffs with talus/screen collected at the base. Overall its pretty nice stuff.

In the end, however, the best way to see which works better for your own workflow would be to download the demo of Geocontrol, and the free version of World Machine and try them both.[/QUOTE]

Thanks...Yeah I noticed some stepping in image export, I think I tried tif too, but wasnīt satisfied with the results, I think theres a cause of the actual demo not exporting out good enough resolution either.
So Ivé been testing both worldmachine and geocontrol, from rendered samples of various artist I have found geocontrol ..or the artistīs producing better results, but I have found worldmachine to be
easier to work with, guess I need to evaluate both more but thanks for the heads up on geocontrol might have stagnated/stopped in development.

Michael

jwiede
12-01-2012, 01:28 PM
Actually, I talked to a local Geocontrol user last week who told me that development had apparently stopped on Geocontrol (geocontrol 2 has been available for a few years now).
Apparently the new version of GeoControl started beta testing around June 2012, according to Cajomi's forum posts. GeoControl seems to be a one-man proposition, so not at all surprising that the updates are slow. Rather than perpetuate (potentially harmful) speculation and rumors, if anyone has questions about development or support, why not email the developer and ask?

kevman3d
12-01-2012, 02:18 PM
GeoControl seems to be a one-man proposition, so not at all surprising that the updates are slow. Rather than perpetuate (potentially harmful) speculation and rumors, if anyone has questions about development or support, why not email the developer and ask?

Good point (http://www.cajomi.de/Forum/showthread.php?t=1029). Talking to users vs. developers makes for easy assumptions... :-)

To be honest, World Machine has also taken a while to be updated as well (probably almost as long) and also a one-man proposition too. I only heard of that update a short while ago (it had been a while since I'd been back to the site) and had initially thought the same since 2.2 had been about for a while.


So Ivé been testing both worldmachine and geocontrol, from rendered samples of various artist I have found geocontrol ..or the artistīs producing better results, but I have found worldmachine to be
easier to work with, guess I need to evaluate both more but thanks for the heads up on geocontrol might have stagnated/stopped in development.

Yup, checking out both is worthwhile - in the end you're going to use what works best for your own workflow. :-)

kevman3d
12-01-2012, 02:27 PM
If you haven't seen it, Terraform is a short film by students at ArtFX (http://www.artfx.fr/). The terrain is a mix of World Machine and Vue - its pretty polished work. There's also a making-of (which is where I was surprised to see World Machine mentioned). Nice.

Terraform (http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/08/sci-fi-short-terraform-mars/)

prometheus
12-02-2012, 07:06 AM
If you haven't seen it, Terraform is a short film by students at ArtFX (http://www.artfx.fr/). The terrain is a mix of World Machine and Vue - its pretty polished work. There's also a making-of (which is where I was surprised to see World Machine mentioned). Nice.

Terraform (http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/08/sci-fi-short-terraform-mars/)

Yeah..nice especially from students, some compositing not looking right, but hey, not even avatar got that right when you look ad 3d vehicles running by with live plates, color,depth and lighting
reveals cg most of the time.

Hard time finding direct link there..I did a youtube search instead and found these...

The short...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_owKIVtxEc

making of...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itq-bZ61etA

I canīt say anything really about worldmachine and the terrain generation, the clip shows to little of it I think to give some comments on it, I do have some comments on these
clips in the time line, mostly about vue and if the atmospherics is vue or real footage somewhere....

2.20 -godrays and cloud movement/very nice if done in vue? but dont think so(cloud patterns not what is mostly shown in vue clouds)
3.36 -ship decent above planetary clouds/ probably vue?
4.47 -time lapse sun rising/ very nice if vue.

By the way..I chime in about contacting developers before assuming anything else about development.
Michael

jwiede
12-03-2012, 10:19 AM
I have both WorldMachine and GeoControl2, as it happens. They each have their strengths, and both developers are quick to respond to questions, IME. I'd suggest trying both out, while their broad techniques are similar their individual workflows are substantially different, so it's worth seeing if one "fits" your working style better than the other.

Both are capable of high-quality realistic results, though I find WorldMachine more configurable overall (but that could just be due to my lesser familiarity with GeoControl, I haven't had it very long and am still learning what it can do). I do find WorldMachine's macro capabilities quite powerful, and don't see an immediate equivalent in GeoControl. OTOH, GeoControl's preset system allows you to get to a functional terrain quicker, and it seems to offer a broader array of texture coloration presets versus WorldMachine -- on WorldMachine, you have to manually set up your own palettes to achieve similar results to what palette presets allow you to quickly put together in GeoControl. As I said, both have their strengths (and weaknesses), best to try both.

alexs3d
12-04-2012, 12:35 AM
hi, i bought geocontrol2 a few month ago and the results are pretty impressive, the gui is not the best but you can work with it.

i did not no that the developement had stopped, because i asked the developer if there will be an update and he answered YES, there wil be an update very soon ?????

i am also looking forward to the WM update, it is a great programm with a lot of cool features.

by the way, thanks @kevman3d for your great tutorials :)




Geocontrol is pretty nice, though I only played with it a little (and that was a few years back). Actually, I talked to a local Geocontrol user last week who told me that development had apparently stopped on Geocontrol (geocontrol 2 has been available for a few years now). He also say that if they had seen WM prior, they may have considered it instead. WM is currently in an open beta for the next update, so that's a good sign.

I still think WM has the better erosion system - its pretty impressive, and there's also Thermal erosion which, while it doesn't "appear" to do much actually add's some additional realism to the terrain by creating shear cliffs with talus/screen collected at the base. Overall its pretty nice stuff.

In the end, however, the best way to see which works better for your own workflow would be to download the demo of Geocontrol, and the free version of World Machine and try them both.

jaf
12-04-2012, 07:29 PM
I've found World Machine works great with Terragen, and the latest Terragen release has added FBX support (http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15320.0). Haven't messed with it yet, but might be interesting....

jwiede
12-04-2012, 11:01 PM
Yep, Terragen directly supporting FBX output now has potential to seriously ease terrain generation workflows. There were plugins available before for Terragen import, but FBX is just a lot easier overall (esp. in that it can also transport camera anim, etc.).

IMO, it's putting Terragen in a great position for customers tired of being locked into E-On's Vue XStream just to get decent terrain import into their 3D pkgs. It'll be interesting to see how E-On responds (if at all), they might need to bring XStream's price back down to less (ahem) extreme levels to remain competitive. Personally, I'd still rather just deal with FBX over plugins that constantly go incompatible and/or unstable, but I suspect XStream's approach still allows greater efficiency w.r.t. migrating volumetric skies/clouds.