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Taro Yoshimoto
11-15-2012, 09:50 PM
Hi, I know that I can select the objects I want in the Compositing Buffer Export or even directly in the scene editor, but it's going to need lots of manual renders to do and a lot of renaming. Is there's a way to render multiple objects separatly that include the object name in the exported sequence?

thanks

toby
11-15-2012, 11:48 PM
Nope, someone would have to write a plugin to do that. You could render an Object ID buffer, but I've never figued out how to use it, because edges are not anti-aliased in it.

jeric_synergy
11-16-2012, 12:44 AM
I'd check if one of the render controllers has this feature. Maybe Pawel Olas'?

Taro Yoshimoto
11-17-2012, 05:09 PM
Yes, wtf with the object ID tag? no AA = absolutly worthless. last month I had to render all my objects mask separatly to get smooth edges. A long process for more than 50 objects.

I am not going to go check for external plugins to fix this problem. I'll just do it by hand and keep looking at the competition features and price. Maybe next project will be made in C4D.

Kaptive
11-17-2012, 05:34 PM
Yes! I demand that Lightwave has every single feature ever concieved, otherwise I'm going to use another piece of software! Damn you Newtek, damn you all to hell!!!!! :)

toby
11-17-2012, 05:40 PM
You can't always use anti-aliasing on data passes like Z depth and Object ID. For example, if you have two objects, one with an ID of 20 (which is represented in pixel value, which must be blended to provide AA), and a second object behind it with a value of 10, then the AA'ed pixels between the objects would have values from 10 to 20; 11, 12, 13, etc. Since each of those values represent an entirely different object and Object ID, you now have about 10 objects being represented by the image, when there's only 2 in the scene. One solution to this is to render it at double size, then double the size of your comp when you need to apply this pass. Hope that's not too confusing.

I'm pretty sure there's no 3D app that will export and name separate passes for each object in the scene, although it's not a bad idea. Problem is, there's far more good ideas than anyone can put into one app - and this is why most 3d apps have scripting languages, like lightwave's Lscript.

jeric_synergy
11-17-2012, 06:06 PM
Since it seems impossible to AA objId bitmaps, how are they profitably used?

toby
11-17-2012, 06:32 PM
No idea. Even a double-size ID pass probably couldn't deal with lots of motion blur. I don't think it's used very much, I think matte rgb passes can be used for the same purpose.

Taro - if all you need is to be able to color-correct all these objects separately, a matte pass might be all you need. What exactly do you need the renders separate for?

jeric_synergy
11-17-2012, 07:17 PM
Each object gets a matte pass, right?

toby
11-17-2012, 08:02 PM
Not exactly, you can have many objects' mattes in one pass. You can have about 10 separate mattes in one scene just using solid colors, maybe more, but I've never seen that many needed. You could have up to 255 if you use Surface ID, but that's pretty tricky for me, it would take a good compositor to be able to extract the mattes.

Most of this requires you to make duplicate models with matte surfaces though -

Sanchon
11-18-2012, 03:48 AM
You can use Special Buffers from surface editor panel to make unique custom gray shaded surface values ( from 0 to 1 ). You have 4 Special Buffers slots for total 40 unique surfaces. These buffers are antialiased and can be exported via compositing buffer export plugin - surface custom buffer.

toby
11-18-2012, 05:00 AM
That's much like surface ID - but how do you get 40 from 4?

Sanchon
11-18-2012, 02:02 PM
Yes, that's like SurfaceID but set manually. Each slot can have values from 0 to 1 - 0.1, 0.2....0.8, 0.9 etc - 10 per slot if you using 0.1 graduation . You can set surface value by adding more values like 0.15 for example, but its better to have less grayscale banding because of better error free selection posibility in composition package or Photoshop.

Cageman
11-18-2012, 04:52 PM
This is super-easy to setup with DPs Pixel and Image filters, if you are interrested in an easy solution right now.

erikals
11-19-2012, 08:29 AM
so the AA will be good with DPs Pixel and Image filters?

inkpen3d
11-19-2012, 09:45 AM
Maybe Janus Render Pass Management system produced by Lernie Ang (http://faulknermano.com/janus/) will meet your requirements. Janus is very flexible, providing lots of control, and enables you to very easily break out render passes of separate objects in a scene. Image file names derive from the object names and get placed in their own directory.

There are loads of tutorials on the the web site and some very good ones produced by other LW users.

Lernie can provide you with a time-limited trial version of Janus so you can assess if it does what you want. He's also VERY helpful and will go beyond the call of duty to resolve any issues you may have. It is also ridiculously cheap if you decide to buy the full version - well worth the money IMHO!

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Peter

erikals
11-19-2012, 10:03 AM
yeah, have been thinking about it, for now i'm interested in DPont's method or LW native though.

i might have some links laying around from Gerardo, still lookin'...

1min after edit: might have found it... http://lightwiki.net/wiki/Multipass_Rendering_with_Filter_Node_Editors

inkpen3d
11-19-2012, 10:41 AM
yeah, have been thinking about it, for now i'm interested in DPont's method or LW native though.

i might have some links laying around from Gerardo, still lookin'...

1min after edit: might have found it... http://lightwiki.net/wiki/Multipass_Rendering_with_Filter_Node_Editors

Hey, great article - many thanks for providing the link! :thumbsup:

erikals
11-19-2012, 10:58 AM
need to check a bit more, see if i can use it with this Motion Blur trick, i think so though...
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?71751-Extra-Buffer-nodes&p=1268096&viewfull=1#post1268096

Cageman
11-19-2012, 02:32 PM
so the AA will be good with DPs Pixel and Image filters?

Yes.

erikals
11-19-2012, 02:58 PM
yey... :]

Taro Yoshimoto
11-20-2012, 04:52 PM
Thanks for all the replies. A lot of interesting reads here! However color ID is not the solution for me as I have to render the objects separatly, even when they are on top of each others. For compositing, you need them to be exactly duplicated, same position.

It's more like layers really.

For this project I'll do it by hand, no problem. But still, it would be cool to have a script or something for the future.

Here the situation: I still have that 3D bottle from few threads ago to do. Clients asked me to make a different bottom. Very diffractive and complex shader that include a lots of layered glass surfaces. Best way to do it is to make a new object just for the bottom and merge it in After effects with a luma mask. The mask will be rendered as a third object.

Layer 1: bottle top
Layer 2: bottle bottom
Layer 3: bottle mask (a simple gradient)

it's simplified, I'll need quite a lot more layers in fact.

Now I create a similar object for each layers and render them by hiding the others in the scene window. renaming manually.

Maybe a script that would create scenes for each objects (hiding the others), import them into the render Queue would solve the problem?

inkpen3d
11-21-2012, 01:50 AM
However color ID is not the solution for me as I have to render the objects separatly, even when they are on top of each others. For compositing, you need them to be exactly duplicated, same position.

Maybe a script that would create scenes for each objects (hiding the others)...?


Really Taro, you should very seriously consider Janus as it does all this for you pretty much automatically!

If you haven't already done so, I recommend watching the excellent set of video tutorials by Mikael Burman (aka Cageman) in the "User Tutorials" section near the bottom of the "Tutorials" page on Lernie's web site (http://faulknermano.com/janus/index.html).

In his workflow Mikael uses exrTrader, but if you haven't already got that plugin, and/or can't afford it, there's another video tutorial further up the same page in which Lernie describes how to use LW's native render buffers.

Regards,
Peter

3dworks
11-21-2012, 02:21 AM
jfyi, if you render with maxwell, you will get perfectly usable AA'd object and ID masks...

- - - Updated - - -

jfyi, if you render with maxwell, you will get perfectly usable AA'd object and ID masks...

- - - Updated - - -

jfyi, if you render with maxwell, you will get perfectly usable AA'd object and ID masks...

inkpen3d
11-21-2012, 03:26 AM
jfyi, if you render with maxwell, you will get perfectly usable AA'd object and ID masks...

Which would be a great solution - if you have the budget! :D

Please correct me if I am wrong, or (me being in the foothills of the learning curve on this subject) missing something obvious, but a commercial (5 node) license for Maxwell is $995, whereas for Janus it's just $99 (and, if need be, you can always use something like Amleto - free for unlimited nodes - to handle network rendering of the breakout scenes).

Alternatively, using exrTrader ($62), could you not AA render the whole scene to exr and also have Object ID masks embedded in these same exr files? Would this not achieve the same result as using Maxwell, or is there a problem with these ID masks in exr files?

Looking forward to your advice/comments.

Regards,
Peter

Taro Yoshimoto
11-21-2012, 05:26 PM
I've wathed the Janus video in fast forward... wow that look impressive! I got to watch at normal speed soon but not today! Deadline tomorow!! thanks for the info!

Taro Yoshimoto
11-23-2012, 07:14 AM
Client decided to change the look of the bottle 8 hours before the deadline! Still It was easy to change. Here what it look:

109327
Top, middle and bottom are rendered separatly and comped together in AE.

Sanchon
11-23-2012, 07:39 AM
if you have many objects - is better to select them with shift-click and add to special buffers - all of them at once. If you use DP filters you must click, click and click. Besides I dont know why - but mask objects node slow down render times - four times.

dpont
11-23-2012, 07:53 AM
... but mask objects node slow down render times - four times.

? In earlier version of DP Filter, '3D Global Shading' option was necessary,
but in LW 10/11, you don't need it, no extra computation then,
just a selection of the objectID from the native LW Buffer.

Denis.

jeric_synergy
11-23-2012, 09:18 AM
if you have many objects - is better to select them with shift-click and add to special buffers - all of them at once.
I've never understood the special buffers-- could you elaborate on that workflow? Thanks.

Sanchon
11-23-2012, 11:53 AM
www.atlantis-arts.com/custom_buffer.rar - sample scene

109330

jeric_synergy
11-23-2012, 01:20 PM
THANK you! Now to remember I have this! :)

Sanchon
11-23-2012, 02:14 PM
Great that you can use this. Lightwave has many undocummented tricks. You can speed up VPR about 200% by doing some simple tricks. Only need to look to "Edit Menu Layout" options and find something :)

jeric_synergy
11-23-2012, 03:33 PM
Lightwave has many undocummented tricks. You can speed up VPR about 200% by doing some simple tricks. Only need to look to "Edit Menu Layout" options and find something :)
"Undocumented". ::sigh::

I've been in the Menu Editor many times, maybe TOO many times. It might be time to go in and re-read everything slowly.