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View Full Version : Nice Vue Cloud fly-through



erikals
11-14-2012, 11:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fyt-NUOanE

not realistic, but nice never the less, sorta like Pixar style i guess...

HenrikSkoglund
11-15-2012, 12:00 AM
Looks really beautiful, wonder if you could do something like this with Ozone 6, or if it needs Vue full version? Ozone 6 should be able to right?...

erikals
11-15-2012, 12:14 AM
i'm not so sure, last time i heard about Ozone in LW it was kinda slow to render...

Titus
11-15-2012, 12:01 PM
It looks nice. Wonder how long it took to render, I'm sure several days.

rcallicotte
11-15-2012, 12:57 PM
Not complaining...it's beautiful, but the only part that looks unrealistic to me is that closest 20 or 40 "feet" before the camera. Surely, there might be a way to trick the camera for that segment...? A little higher maybe. Anyway, I love it. How long did it take to do?

prometheus
11-16-2012, 04:08 AM
yepp very nice, hard to spot the sometimes badly used noise/fractal blobs, which occours in many vue cloud renders, so this guy knew how to pick the best fractals I guess, or maybe just maybe vue has gotten a new special fractal for that, which I have been asking for a long time.

Great atmosphere setup too.

making this in ozone could be possible, but the provided atmosphere/cloud models lacks a good cloud model, and you would need vue to tweak cloud fractal density...and in such case, why use ozone when it renders faster in vue.

Michael

Cryonic
11-16-2012, 02:59 PM
I wish channels wouldn't do what The CGBro does, which is takes other's stuff and uploads them to his own channel rather than liking, favoriting, etc... to get them to show up. Thankfully he doesn't seem to get a lot of hits on the reposted videos, but those are hits that didn't view it from the original source.

adrian
11-20-2012, 03:05 AM
Reminds me of Bespin, with the Falcon flying through the golden clouds :-)

prometheus
11-20-2012, 10:06 AM
Reminds me of Bespin, with the Falcon flying through the golden clouds :-)

some Bespin reference..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oehCAWqibFs

indeed it is a reminder...

however..procedural cloud textures are very difficult to get right, and to such full volume billowed up, I would probably use fluids like turbulenceFD, maybe
in conjunction with ozone height cloud layers, then it would be a matter of getting the shading right within the fluids, rendertimes with fluids will be much faster too
I would say.

Michael

prometheus
11-21-2012, 05:09 AM
was fiddling again with a new install of the newest turbulenceFD, testing some cloud evolving...sorry for a somewhat poor quality, just wanted to give you an idea/look on how fluids could work for cloud stuff, I did a time stretch to slow things down in after effects and that yielded a not so
smooth motion..also I have some render artifacts, due to probably quality settings or fluids hitting container:)

was just fiddling here so forgive my results of that..as mentioned, you might get an idea on how great this can be done if worked on.
I would like to test it with ozone atmosphere, or ogo taiki atmosphere to see how the smoke shader for the clouds react with lighting and shadows, otherwise I think a true fluid sim gives much more realism than procedural textures,
There is issues since doing sims in real world sizes would be a pain in the..and also setting up a infinite cloud plane is impossible for fluids.

Might test and do some better renders of this the upcoming weekend, background cloud layers needs improvement (textured environment) need to adjust detail and add some movement.
Perhaps changing to dpontīs sky node.
was fiddling again with a new install of the newest turbulenceFD, testing some cloud evolving...sorry for a somewhat poor quality, just wanted to give you an idea/look on how fluids could work for cloud stuff, I did a time stretch to slow things down in after effects and that yielded a not so
smooth motion..also I have some render artifacts, due to probably quality settings or fluids hitting container:)

was just fiddling here so forgive my results of that..as mentioned, you might get an idea on how great this can be done if worked on.
I would like to test it with ozone atmosphere, or ogo taiki atmosphere to see how the smoke shader for the clouds react with lighting and shadows, otherwise I think a true fluid sim gives much more realism than procedural textures,
There is issues since doing sims in real world sizes would be a pain in the..and also setting up a infinite cloud plane is impossible for fluids.

Might test and do some better renders of this the upcoming weekend, background cloud layers needs improvement (textured environment) need to adjust detail and add some movement.
Perhaps changing to dpontīs sky node.
need to experiment with the speed and time setting to avoid post processing time stretching.

109286

Hereīs the link...
http://vimeo.com/53969414


Michael

erikals
11-21-2012, 07:26 AM
:yoda: tricky this is, reached the ultimate cloud render no one has yet done

dsol
11-21-2012, 09:50 AM
Vue's spectral clouds are amazing, but my god - the render times!
Teregen 2 also has some nice clouds - at least, from the stills I've seen. Anyone tried it?
http://planetside.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28:tg2-atmosphere&catid=9:terragen2&Itemid=212

Eagle66
11-21-2012, 01:12 PM
Terragen 2 clouds are amazing, but my god - the render times! :hey:

dsol
11-21-2012, 04:36 PM
Ha! I guess we'll just have to keep on looking. I bet this is something that really would lend itself to GPU acceleration. Maybe somebody out there is working on it.

dsol
11-22-2012, 12:04 PM
Nice skies in this - and looks like it renders in realtime! Rather pricey though
http://lumion3d.com/lumion-3.0-preview

prometheus
11-23-2012, 01:46 AM
Terragen 2 clouds are amazing, but my god - the render times! :hey:


haha..indeed, if dsol thought vue had slow clouds, then he should definitly not take a look at terragen, apart from that, you can at least get decent previews very fast in vue compared to terragen.
The realism in lighting and atmosphere is something that terragen owns though, probably a better sky algorithm, and definitly better cloud fractals...but as mentioned slow..slow.

A spectral sky..without clouds, and working with turbulenceFD ..if turbulence could work something like that out, then it would probably render much faster, but I
guess we would need a special cloud shader instead of smoke, then a static noise density texture that would work without simulation for larger areas.

what have we here?..

ozone
skytracer
ogo taiki
skygen
textured
environment
hypervoxels
image based backgrounds
volumedic

(Did I miss something?)
None of the above is satisfactory to that extent you could say, this is what you should use as the ultimate solution, som of them works for
specific tasks or shots..maybe thatīs how you have to see it, but it imposes trouble when you need to go outside of that shot for something different.

Michael

jwiede
11-24-2012, 02:41 PM
To be fair, it does seem like Ozone's getting a LOT closer to the target than most others.

Is Ogo Taiki really something we "have"? I can't seem to find a way to get a new, valid license for it, which kind of puts it in "things we had", like Dynamite, IMO. If you know of a way to get a working, licensed Ogo Taiki plugin, though, please let me know, I'm just hesitant about throwing money down an open well.

I suspect, given enough tweaking, a combo of either Ozone+TFD or OgoTaiki+TFD would probably allow you to get very close in realism -- maybe throw in a layer or two of HV-based for mid-distance as well. It'd just have likely about the same render-time issues as doing full-spectral/volumetric clouds in Vue or Terragen. Still, there's a lot to be said for any "in-LW" solution over external packages.

prometheus
11-25-2012, 06:01 AM
To be fair, it does seem like Ozone's getting a LOT closer to the target than most others.

Is Ogo Taiki really something we "have"? I can't seem to find a way to get a new, valid license for it, which kind of puts it in "things we had", like Dynamite, IMO. If you know of a way to get a working, licensed Ogo Taiki plugin, though, please let me know, I'm just hesitant about throwing money down an open well.

I suspect, given enough tweaking, a combo of either Ozone+TFD or OgoTaiki+TFD would probably allow you to get very close in realism -- maybe throw in a layer or two of HV-based for mid-distance as well. It'd just have likely about the same render-time issues as doing full-spectral/volumetric clouds in Vue or Terragen. Still, there's a lot to be said for any "in-LW" solution over external packages.

Ozone getting close to target more than others is mostly due to itīs sky algorithms and how light and shadow behaves within clouds, the general cloud fractals might be the lesser one, since
your stuck with presets and canīt change the fractal noise, lightwaveīs procedural textures with all itīs tweaking options and dponīt weather and gardner clouds would offer a better
cloud fractal model I think, and thus in combination with a proper sky light model it would be much more realistic to use, with the exeption for that there is no built in velocity movement which
ozone in fact to have.

forget hvīs if you should try to match ozone cloud layers in render speed, you would end up with more time consuming renders than ozones spectral 1 layers, the spectral 2/3 layers are much
slower though...forget about using hypervoxels together with ozone clouds..like rocket trails, extremely slow since you need to activate ray marcher....
http://vimeo.com/21359403

Rendering clouds with turbulence would probably be much faster, but depends if on you use subgrid detaling and multiple scatter light.

I believe you can still get ogo taiki license..not sure though.

Ivé mentioned this so many times before, ogo taiki has some features that canīt be done in ozone, such as volumetrics on particles/point clusters, to use as rocket trails, or building up clouds, air refraction for
heat shimmer, planetary view, cloud based on internal lightwave fractals, surface mode for fractal land and water..ozone has none of that.

A better sky algorithm, faster render, better ui, and ogo would nock out ozone from being the best choice, the ground foundation is there and was there long before ozone got itīs volumetric
clouds.

Michael

erikals
11-25-2012, 12:19 PM
Is Ogo Taiki really something we "have"?
if you run 32bit PC, yes, but there was never a Mac and 64bit release.
it is a bit tricky to understand just how to get a hold of / install it, page being japanese and all,
but here is how you do it > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW0ImR2zZ9M

jwiede
11-27-2012, 05:26 PM
if you run 32bit PC, yes, but there was never a Mac and 64bit release.
Not even a 64-bit Win version? Ah, that's likely a non-starter then just over the memory limitations of 32-bit versus :"real-world usage" volumetric memory needs.

dsol
11-27-2012, 06:15 PM
I don't think Ogo Taiki is a true volumetric sim - as in CFD (like Turbulence). So memory requirements are probably no steeper than LW's native hypervoxels. I've never used it myself though - that's just based on what I've read.

erikals
11-27-2012, 10:59 PM
actually 32bit it works great, it's more of a question if you wanna bother installing 32bit...

that's right, Taiki is not a true volumetric simulator.

for the curious ones, Taiki was last updated Aug 2007.

interesting how he made it possible to use his Ogo Hikari quasi-SSS with Hypervoxels by the way :]
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/hv00.jpg (not possible in Lightwave itself)

jwiede
12-06-2012, 10:46 PM
I'm actually okay with using Win32 LW to access the plugin, I'm mostly concerned about sending money only to never receive anything. Has anyone recently purchased an Ogo-* license and can confirm the author is still sending out licenses?

erikals
12-06-2012, 11:20 PM
i know Mike Green ordered it around 2011, i think it should be fine.
but maybe email Ogo first.

btw, recently tested Ogo Hikari with Caustics and Chromatic Aberration.
Neat, though limited to Ogo Radiosity and doesn't support nodes, so post-work is needed...
still, kinda cool. rendertime is same as LW caustics.

prometheus
12-07-2012, 01:19 AM
I don't think Ogo Taiki is a true volumetric sim - as in CFD (like Turbulence). So memory requirements are probably no steeper than LW's native hypervoxels. I've never used it myself though - that's just based on what I've read.

I donīt think you can state it like that, Ogo Taiki has nothing to do with dynamic simulation or CFD, so the term true volumetric sim is completly outside of what is generally discussed in volumetric environments, ogo is just as much True volumetric environment as vue, or terragen...CFD like turbulenceFD
is a different story.

Ogotaikiīs volumetrics has a completly different handling of light and shadows better suited for clouds than hypervoxels I would say, it also works on infinite cloud layers so to speak and within that cloud layer density is determined by textures, procedural as image based and thus you avoid having to resort
to particles,nulls, object vertices to shape the clouds...But you can also use that too with ogo taiki if you wish.

The biggest issue is the setting up of good air properties and the UI to do so, one would probably just use the scene setups and tweak those, rather than set it up from scratch..which is way easier in ozone or vue, if such enhancements would be done along with render speed improvements, then we
are talking about a serious contender against ozone.


air refraction..(heat shimmer)
particle or point cluster for volumetrics
planetary view above earth
surface infinite detail procedurals for terrain
water surfaces
Interactivity in VPR while tweaking parameters
full texture control of cloud density.

Those are some of the advantages against ozone, there are drawbacks too of course if compared to ozone.

Michael

jwiede
12-07-2012, 06:45 AM
still, kinda cool. rendertime is same as LW caustics.
Hehe, is that a good thing or bad thing? Given their quality, I often find myself slightly resenting the time LW's caustics require... if you're gonna do a bad job, at least do a _quick_ bad job, no? Nice that Ogo-Hikari's quick, but just how much post work did it take? Can you show the unadjusted render?

jwiede
12-07-2012, 06:57 AM
I donīt think you can state it like that, Ogo Taiki has nothing to do with dynamic simulation or CFD, so the term true volumetric sim is completly outside of what is generally discussed in volumetric environments, ogo is just as much True volumetric environment as vue, or terragen...CFD like turbulenceFD is a different story.
Right, I meant it in the more general "volumetric" sense, not specifically CFD. Simply put, all volumetrics are comparatively memory-intensive because of the substantially-higher information density they require versus polygonal geometry.

I'm glad to hear Ogo's stuff isn't a complete memory hog, but I still suspect that the 2/3GB limit of x86 (vs x64) constrains customers when creating deep, complex cloudscapes. I'd love to be wrong, though. The price is pretty reasonable, so might be worth a shot just to play around with the plugins.

erikals
12-07-2012, 07:25 AM
Hehe, is that a good thing or bad thing?
(that's the original render ;]

aah, hehe, not so sure about that... :°
no, LW Caustics rendertime can't be a good thing :hey: still nice to see it works.
but in this Ogo Hikari case i couldn't make the glass itself be affected, maybe i did something wrong, could very well be... need to test more...

also testing Nitisara Prismatic Caustics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PRs8WFl008&hd=1
it's based on the LW Caustics, just using a motion blur hack.
this one too, 32bit PC/Mac only...

960x540 90 frames rendertime > 2h 25min (3GHz Quad Core)


which one is "better" ?
i have no idea... :]

Ryste3d
12-09-2012, 09:04 AM
Nice skies in this - and looks like it renders in realtime! Rather pricey though
http://lumion3d.com/lumion-3.0-preview

Yes this is realtime skies...

I did this speed test and its about 3 sec. pr. frame


https://vimeo.com/55142522

erikals
12-09-2012, 08:00 PM
it's quite nice, though the clouds flickers a bit here and there...
put on a large screen it would be noticeable, especially over time (for for example a feature film)

dang fast render though...