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3dfanatic
10-31-2003, 02:33 PM
Is there any benifit to take all the clips that you put together from a DV camcorder and music and misc other things and first render it to RTV and then to TMPGEnc or is it the same to just let the TMPGEnc take over and do it all for you with the AVI's and Wav files?
When I take the video into RTV I am getting around 120 gig size file compared with just rendering it to mpg which is 5.5 gig. I just don't want to wast alot of time and space if there is know benifit by doing this. I am using VT3, TMPGEnc, and Ulead DVD authoring.
I noticed when converting to mpg it gets a bit blurry is that common?
For 1:45 minutes of tape I am getting around 6.5 hours to encode for TMPGEnc. Seems kind of fast compared to what others have stated? I am using a 2 gig 850 with 1 gig of rambus ram and 2 striped 73.6 seagate cheetah drives which i am getting 33 megs of speed.
Thanks for any help you can give on this, I am just a newbie here trying to get a handle on this in as little time as possible.
Thanks again.

Jim_C
10-31-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by 3dfanatic
Is there any benifit to take all the clips that you put together from a DV camcorder and music and misc other things and first render it to RTV

Nope. The Only, and some have said this is a null point also, time it benefits to go to rtv from DV is if you are doing an extreme amount of layering, compositing, rendering, resaving, etc.

What quality are you encoding in TMPGEnc.
cbr or 2 pass vbr?

3dfanatic
10-31-2003, 03:32 PM
I think originally it was set to cbr but I had maybe a lower k/bits per sec difference so now it is really big file. Well if I set it to CBR with 8000 k/bits its now going to take 9 hours which should give a better picture but I guess I better go back in and delete some scenes if I am planning to put this on one DVD.

Jim_C
10-31-2003, 03:50 PM
Don't delete scenes to make it fit.
Use 2 pass vbr.
Set your average bitrate first, then your maximum to 1.5x that, then see where you stand size wise. If still too big, lower them until it fits.
read this:
http://www.professionaleventvideo.com/tmpdirections.htm
complinets of Eugene

it should help

3dfanatic
11-01-2003, 02:00 AM
Thanks for the information. I already read Eugene settings and was just a bit confused at first but now I can understand the logic. Thanks for the help. I went back and deleted some slow sections in the 1:43 minute video and came up with 63 minutes so it will be better and still have some room at the front and end of the video. How much room does the DVD authoring Take? Does the 64 minute requirement take into effect the editing size that is needed for authoring with chapters, and such? Just wasn't sure how close that I could go to the 64 minute mark.
Thanks for such good information Eugene on setups and thanks Jim_C for answering some of my questions. It is always nice to know that people can be so helpful out there.

ScorpioProd
11-01-2003, 10:11 AM
Actually, the room taken up by the authoring of menus and chapters is really very small, relative to the actual video.

Note that I am assuming compressed audio at a data rate of 192kb/s in my "64 minutes at video CBR of 8000kb/s".

I wrote the article over a year ago, and mentioned the issues with compressed audio at the time and looking for an AC-3 solution. Well, now I would never encode the audio compressed without AC-3. It works great at the same data rate I mention above.

Jim_C
11-01-2003, 10:30 AM
Hey fanatic,

A little trick I do in Tmpgenc is...
well I better get morning caffeine before I launch into this, brb...

OK bbbrrrriiinngg Good Morning!!
:D

Start tmpgenc and use the walk thru
-Set to dvd/vbr w/audio based on yours at first screen

-Select your video and audio files and make sure it chooses correct field setting.

-On screen 3/5 choose other settings

-under mpeg setting screen and the video tab click setting next to rate control mode which should say 2 pass vbr

-Here is where you set bit rate, Ill just use an example, it should have some numbers there already. If the average is 6000, set the max to 1.5x of that or 9000 and set min to 2000 and check padding per Eugenes tips, clcik OK

-Change your dc compnent precision to 10 bits. this will slow encode but look better

-motion search to slow

-Under quantize matrix tab, make sure Output yuv data is NOT checked. I also uncheck No Motion search for still picture, but thats my preference

-click ok in mpeg settings box

-click next to go to page 4/5 now here is where you will see the graph as to whether it will fit or not. If the bit rate settings you choose are too high just check the expert box, the mpeg settings box pops up, and lower the rate in rate control mode.

-Clikcx OK and see where you stand size wise now.

-Little neat thing you can also just grab the colored bar in the graph and slide it to a size.It will automatically adjust rate settings, but I prefer to go back to screen and do it myself.

-This is how you can fit a lot of video on adisk and still get good results.

Ive done 2 1/2 hour videos and still had really decent results.

Along with Eugene's excellen tips also read this:
http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html
But one thing in that to avoid is like I said above do NOT Output YUV data..etc

note.. if any field is greyed out just cliick on the name and choose unlock., then click ok at the warning, you can then adjust it.

90% of this I got from Eugene and that other link I gave you 10% is trial and error.

hope this helps

jim

3dfanatic
11-01-2003, 11:10 AM
Wow thanks again! I didn't know about the 10 bit I did it last night at 9 and it seems ok but has a few lines showing up whenever there is movement from the people being taped. Will that go away once i burn this to DVD or is this a common issue. I went with the CBR since I already did the edit on the thing but I will from this point on Jim_C take the advice that you recomended.
Now I ibetter go get myself a cup of coffee as well. LOL!

Jim_C
11-01-2003, 11:51 AM
Lines during horizontal movement are a sure fire sign of wrong field order.

To test to see if you have the right field order do this,

go to settings -> Advanced and double click on the "Deinterlace"
to check the field order. Click the combo "Method" and select
"Even-Odd field (field)", and go to some area with action. Advance a few
fields manually, and if it appears to bounce a bit back and forth, the field
setting is incorrect. This method works for just about anything that doesn't
switch field orders mid file. Don't forget to uncheck "Deinterlace" when
done.

3dfanatic
11-01-2003, 01:28 PM
Well once I checked the even-odd field it cleared up. Does this mean it will be fine when I render this or do I have to select the Deinterlace [Even-Odd field {field} to get the appropiate look?
Thanks for any help you can give.

Jim_C
11-01-2003, 01:36 PM
The above is just a test to see if you have the wrong field order. You don't want the deinterlace filter on unless you are encoding for pc playback only.
If you run the test and dont notice the bouncing your field setting is correct.
best bet is to cut down a 2 minute project with the most horizontal movement. Do the test, set your field order, encode, then even author that to a dvd-rw just like you would your big project, use the rw so you can erase it, then check on a tv. I have 2 or 3 rw's i keep for tests.
You won't see the improper field setting when played on a pc because it is a progessive output, so you have to go all the way to completion and check on a tv.

ScorpioProd
11-01-2003, 02:47 PM
Just a clarification on max speed for 2-pass VBR. Using 1.5 times your average is a good max, BUT you need to also limit max to 8000kb/s. The latest versions of TMPGEnc do limit this automatically, I believe. But if not, remember 8000kb/s MAX is a hard limit for the DVD spec.

Yeah, and do try that fielding test. Try it with your fielding set each way so you can see the difference when you scrub when doing the test. And don't forget to turn the filter off when you're done testing. DVDs are interlaced like video, so you don't want to deinterlace your DVD.

Jim_C
11-01-2003, 03:04 PM
Thanks for popping in Eugene, I was wondering how I was doing.

jim

djlithium
11-02-2003, 05:39 AM
Actually there is an advantage to cooking your stuff to RTV for use in TMPEGinc and other programs if your source material is DV.

It goes faster!

Decompressing the video before recompressing it slows things down. It also makes your project very portable and contained reducing file management issues (woops, that was my project AVI I just delete, back to VT-edit to make another one) etc etc.
It's also handy for experimentation with TMPEGEnc. You don't have to wait as long for the decompression step during the encoding. On slower systems this is probably more of an issue, but why waste CPU speed and time when you know you are going to need to try a few things before choosing a final output result.

Something to think about. :)

ScorpioProd
11-02-2003, 07:33 PM
Though that totally makes sense from a theoretical point of view, in my experiements I've never found a statistically significant difference in the speed of encoding between RTV and AVI in TMPGEnc.

3dfanatic
11-02-2003, 11:29 PM
Well thanks for the information everyone it was very helpful just finishing up with this process ready to burn thanks again all.

bradl
11-03-2003, 11:29 PM
Curious anyone's opinion of the MPEG2 quality created with the stand alone DVD recorders. Also, what about burning a disk with one in real-time, then ripping it back to the HD for custom menus and authoring that? Would that work or is it crazy? Seems like a workable solution for a fast turn-around project, like same day...

Jim_C
11-04-2003, 08:23 AM
>>>>Also, what about burning a disk with one in real-time, then ripping it back to the HD for custom menus and authoring that? Would that work or is it crazy?


Must work, there was a guy singing the praises of it on safe Harbor's forum recently. I wouldn't think the quality is as good as a 2 pass rendered file, but he was doing the exact method mentioned.

jim